Club Sale | It’s done!

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This is good news in the short term. United becoming state owned would be football's final tragedy. I despise the Glazers but the Qatari state would be end game for me.

It potentially also gives other consortiums a chance to put money together.
 
Teja said:
It's all pie in the sky stuff though - no one has been able to monetize that so far.

Barca Studio is weird, they claim that it's really valuable and whined about selling off the rights but I was looking at that during the FdJ / Barca selling off future revenues saga and it doesn't really make that much money. I think it's more fluff than anything.

Meanwhile the more real situation is ~1bn in debt that needs to get refinanced.
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We had the super league scheme just 2 years ago and even though the backlash was severe, you already saw some fans were receptive to the idea.

Fast forward a few years, and you already see a MENA arms race in football in full flow, and maybe 30-40% of Utd fan base are already gagging to join them. I don’t think it’s fair to say those are pie in the sky proposals. Everything is gearing towards a subscription model, it’s literally how consumers are being conditioned. Football clubs are just behind the time and bad at producing contents to entice people but sooner or later they will catch up.

Re: debt refinancing, we refinanced in 2010 just at the tail of the Recession with huge fan protest, don’t think there’ll be an issue this time either. We’ll be limping along but the Glazers won’t get pushed out because of a lack of refinancing options.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
Re: debt refinancing, we refinanced in 2010 just at the tail of the Recession with huge fan protest, don’t think there’ll be an issue this time either. We’ll be limping along but the Glazers won’t get pushed out because of a lack of refinancing options.
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Do you know / is there a way to find out what % of the debt is long term vs short term? With the Spurs stadium deal for example, most of it was financed long duration at very attractive rates.

Imagine our interest payments jumping from 30m / year -> 100m / year. That's what would happen if the debt wasn't locked in at a low rate.
 
There's definitely a shake up on the horizon for elite European club competition and it's going to be heavily influenced by middle Eastern money. I don't think people will still be laughing at the Saudi league by this time in 2025.
 
I call total BS on the article written by two nothing journalists! This will still get done by Christmas in my opinion. I think the Amrabat deal just being an option is a clue- if we get bought out then a more expensive, higher calibre alternative may be on the radar!
 
They need investment don't they? That's why they launched this whole process.

The wording of that Mail article is off. It's not as simple as the club being on/off the market. A certain percentage of the club will remain on the market.
 
Judas said:
I just struggle to believe as business people they could be willing to burn so many bridges.
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Who’s going to entertain buying the club in the future after this shambles
 
MancunianAngels said:
That's a good thing.
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not for the Glazers which was the context of the conversation

I'd be happy if Qatar never bought us

but if the Glazers are going to wait to sell the club, it isn't great for their chances of getting a higher price
 
Tarrou said:
not for the Glazers which was the context of the conversation

I'd be happy if Qatar never bought us

but if the Glazers are going to wait to sell the club, it isn't great for their chances of getting a higher price
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Fair enough and good point.

In my uneducated opinion, the Glazers are still waiting on one of two things happening:

1. Another attempt at the European Super League
2. Sale of individual TV rights

The 2nd one especially would probably make the club more palatable as an option for other buyers (outside of Qatar and Ratcliffe).
 
Teja said:
Do you know / is there a way to find out what % of the debt is long term vs short term? With the Spurs stadium deal for example, most of it was financed long duration at very attractive rates.

Imagine our interest payments jumping from 30m / year -> 100m / year. That's what would happen if the debt wasn't locked in at a low rate.
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I don’t think there’s any substantial amount of high interest loan currently, the PIK loan was mysteriously paid off in 2010. In 2013, we refinanced a further £192m at 8.75% with Bank of America to 2.78% rate, then the next round of refinancing was in 2015 which expires in 2 years when we raised $425m in bond at 3.79% to redeem the previous secured bond at $269m. So the vast majority of our debt at the moment is about 4% at worst, and that tracks with about £20m interest payment annually.

For Your doomsday scenario to happen, our next round of refinancing would have to be so catastrophic we can only secure loans at 20% rate, that’s not happening. At worst we are back to 8-9% which means another £20m coming out the door annually, which is nothing the club haven’t gone through, in the early days of the takeover we were paying between 8.375 to 16.25% interest rate.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
We had the super league scheme just 2 years ago and even though the backlash was severe, you already saw some fans were receptive to the idea.

Fast forward a few years, and you already see a MENA arms race in football in full flow, and maybe 30-40% of Utd fan base are already gagging to join them. I don’t think it’s fair to say those are pie in the sky proposals. Everything is gearing towards a subscription model, it’s literally how consumers are being conditioned. Football clubs are just behind the time and bad at producing contents to entice people but sooner or later they will catch up.

Re: debt refinancing, we refinanced in 2010 just at the tail of the Recession with huge fan protest, don’t think there’ll be an issue this time either. We’ll be limping along but the Glazers won’t get pushed out because of a lack of refinancing options.
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Actually it is mostly pie in the sky, no club or league is making much money from their own subscription its all through broadcast deals, if it were so easy to monetize your fan base to sell subscriptions for big money there wouldn't be these big money tv deals for sports across the world we would have already moved on to only leagues running their broadcast. Also your debt financing argument is incorrect, debt refinancing isn't that difficult for a club of utd's size since its just replacing one debt with another, the problem the rats face is they have little in form of liquid assets to put up for the infrastructure lifts the club needs and no one is giving them even slightly palatable debt/loan to pay for those. The whole reason for sale was they couldn't afford to finance the new stadium and training facility and unless i missed the news where glazers suddenly found half a billion or more to spend, that reality has not changed.
 
Is there a good post or explanation as to why "the Glazer's have to sell"? Keep seeing it parrotted but not explained. They're hardly good business people so I'd imagine they'd hold out for a good price. Even if they relegated us, they probably get a billion or so for the club and we already know they don't put money in.
 
'Off the market'? Maybe the 1958 can organise another protest? After paying for their season tickets the Glazers will carefully listen.

Personally, I reckon this update is just another ploy to get Qatar's State Bid upped. It'll most likely work, too. Sold by Xmas. I'd imagine Custis et al will report similar during the week.

Not 'Joelover' yet!
 
Bad news=true. Good news=false.

If this was true it would be other serious journalists breaking the news.
 
SmallCaine said:
Actually it is mostly pie in the sky, no club or league is making much money from their own subscription its all through broadcast deals, if it were so easy to monetize your fan base to sell subscriptions for big money there wouldn't be these big money tv deals for sports across the world we would have already moved on to only leagues running their broadcast. Also your debt financing argument is incorrect, debt refinancing isn't that difficult for a club of utd's size since its just replacing one debt with another, the problem the rats face is they have little in form of liquid assets to put up for the infrastructure lifts the club needs and no one is giving them even slightly palatable debt/loan to pay for those. The whole reason for sale was they couldn't afford to finance the new stadium and training facility and unless i missed the news where glazers suddenly found half a billion or more to spend, that reality has not changed.
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And you are assuming they will invest in the infrastructure because…? There seems to be this universal belief that any raised funds will go towards the club, bizarrely from the most distrustful of current regime United fans, if that’s not cognitive dissonance I don’t know what is.

Debt refinancing is in fact the only issue for them remaining. Fans can shout all they like and OT can continue to leak, but as long as the debt remains stable and cost manageable, they will happily chug along until they get their valuation.

As for media content/individual broadcasting rights, we will just have to wait and see. The US venture capitalists/investment funds might have a totally wrong read on European football, but they’ve assumed that area to be the one with most growth potential, you see things like all those Amazon behind the scene docs, sooner or later those productions will be moved in house and you see training watch along, match day vlogs, players nutrients/rehab etc.. There’s a mine of content that’s not being monetised at the moment due to traditional/institutional reluctance, but whenever there’s demand supply will soon be created.
 
IamBurnsey said:
I really hope all this latest news is just some idiots looking for cheap clicks and views because I honestly can't stand the thought of glaziers being here any longer, this club is going to go downhill badly if the glaziers actually think they are going to get this reported 10 billion they are sniffing after. The club is struggling these days even with small loan deals nevermind competing for the big names in Europe, I honestly don't know how things will go if the glaziers don't leave ASAP, not very well I would imagine!!!
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The glaziers are starting to become a real pane.
 
RyRy11 said:
Is there a good post or explanation as to why "the Glazer's have to sell"? Keep seeing it parrotted but not explained. They're hardly good business people so I'd imagine they'd hold out for a good price. Even if they relegated us, they probably get a billion or so for the club and we already know they don't put money in.
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I don't think they do, personally. I just think it makes perfect sense for them to sell now or soon.
 
these fecking parasites fecking hell
If this turns out to be true the protests need to be massive
 
How likely is it the Glazers leak this to the Daily Mail football writers? A family so secretive that they don't even tell their arses which hand is wiping it.
 
Ish said:
How has the supposed asking price gone up from £6b to £10b in a matter of months? Doesn’t make any sense.
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Well, we did sign Jonny Evans...
 
They won't wait until 2025 to sell the club and they won't get anywhere near £10bn, by then the club will be further in debt, I would take the mail story with a pinch of salt, there's obviously some last minute negotiations at play here, they clearly want that £6bn, not a penny less.
 
Until one of the bidders comes out and spills the beans about this whole facade and shambolic process then it’s still on and they are sticking to the NDA with the hope of buying.

Just noise now that the transfer window has shut.
 
GoldanoGraham said:
Until one of the bidders comes out and spills the beans about this whole facade and shambolic process then it’s still on and they are sticking to the NDA with the hope of buying.

Just noise now that the transfer window has shut.
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I don’t think it’s that complex and it’s just a great story for the media to use to get massive reactions and swings of opinion. The actual asking price hasn’t changed if you ignore some of the low tier sources, personally I just think the Glazers think Qatar will up the bid eventually to match that price. If you were selling your house for 300k, your buyer had offered 250k which seemed reasonable in the market but you know they had 20m in cash available, you would hold out if you don’t need to sell. We’re all just waiting on a long game of chicken.
 
InfiniteBoredom said:
And you are assuming they will invest in the infrastructure because…? There seems to be this universal belief that any raised funds will go towards the club, bizarrely from the most distrustful of current regime United fans, if that’s not cognitive dissonance I don’t know what is.

Debt refinancing is in fact the only issue for them remaining. Fans can shout all they like and OT can continue to leak, but as long as the debt remains stable and cost manageable, they will happily chug along until they get their valuation.

As for media content/individual broadcasting rights, we will just have to wait and see. The US venture capitalists/investment funds might have a totally wrong read on European football, but they’ve assumed that area to be the one with most growth potential, you see things like all those Amazon behind the scene docs, sooner or later those productions will be moved in house and you see training watch along, match day vlogs, players nutrients/rehab etc.. There’s a mine of content that’s not being monetised at the moment due to traditional/institutional reluctance, but whenever there’s demand supply will soon be created.
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Its not cognitive dissonance its just basic common sense, when we don't do well glazers allow the club to spend big not because they want to because they need to. You seem to have let cynicism win out over critical thinking, if we lived in glazer land they would happily make fans sit in cardboxes instead of a stadium to save money, in real world they can't. Bad stadium hurts the club in terms of pr loss and financially , a better stadium makes you money and provided good pr that helps you make money. That is a especially true for utd where the stadium is in going to need major investment, they can delay but eventually they have to pay it and money to pay it off is something they don't have nor they ever will.

The us vultures own us teams, they haven't been able to make that much money from shit you are pointing out in us, its not going to suddenly turn into gold just because you copied it to europe. The whole inhouse bs has been going on for a long time, but guess what if i am given an option to watch say nba on nba's or a team's broadcast or watching it on tnt, i and most others are watching it on tnt, its just better. The money the tv guys spend and the talent they have at their disposal vs what a club can do are vastly different. You can pretend and push it on to future all you want, its not going to change reality.
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
He's right, but obviously has no idea what's going on like the rest of us. His tweet just reads like every other post in this thread.
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He’s only right if you assume that the Glazers think as he does: that they need to make capital investments in the stadium and training ground in the short term. If they decided, say, to simply park the issue, there’s no reason they couldn’t truck along for another few years, just painting the outside of the stadium every so often in the name of progress and renegotiating facilities with ever-increasing interest rates. Their game is now to extract the maximum value from the asset. I’m not sure I see the idea that they’ve snookered themselves. They’ll take their chances on CL football and overall growth in the game.
 
laughtersassassin said:


Well if true the club is finished in my lifetime. What a bunch of cnuts
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I'm not sure the Glazers understand the strength of feeling amongst fans here. The backlash will be huge and won't go away, I can genuinely see matches getting abandoned on a regular basis etc.
 
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