I don't know. If it's indeed a state bid, glazers would know they've got unlimited money regardless of the stated intent to spend on the stadium and facilities.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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These absolute scummy fecks the glaziers really have no respect for the club at all, they literally couldn't careless about what happens as long as they get their end, hopefully the protests step up at old Trafford, I don't know if it will do much but at least the fans won't just their crap willingly!
We really aren't at least financilly wise. Regarding sports results we've been dead for over 10 years but we're a money machine. The fan base and the whole machinery is too big like Woodward the scumbag said "playing performance doesn't really have a meaningful impact on what we can do on the commercial side of the business."
You're right to some extent. Hate to plagiarise from elsewhere - but this is too important of a message not to be seen by more fans. See below.
I'm counting 6 but I suppose it depends if you include Kombouaré (or I made a mistake) Real changed a bit but went twice for bringing sure hands that were there earlier. I'll grant you that it's not Palermo levels of instability and fairly in line with other similar clubs. You do feel the trust of the board snaps every time the team is not going anywhere in the CL. Maybe the problem is more that the board seems fairly hands on with the recruitment. Locker room management (contract extensions and such) not a success either.
I think the first 5 years were OK though there was so, so many duds in recruitment. After Neymar/ Mbappé it felt they tried to do the rest of the team on the cheap or "smartly". I'd say this summer felt a lot more coherent.
Anyhow to stay on United, Jassim is not Nasser so who knows... But PSG and United do share issues so maybe not a guarantee 92F will fix things.
Out of them all it would be Kaveh I'd completely ignore.
I'd rate Curtis and Keegan about the same.
Ornstein seems to get respect whilst saying nothing.
And the backlash story is just stating the bleeding obvious.
It's the Curtis and Keegan news that I'll be keeping an eye on, it could be that Keegan just isn't quite in the loop like he was earlier on, but of course Curtis is maybe been fed false news.
Originally the b@stards were asking for an eye watering £6b for a full sale, has that estimate now increased ? Because they’re just wasting everyone’s time if they’ve got other ideas and simply haven’t the nerve to release a press statement saying otherwise for months.
Well whatever he’s been fed… he’s certainly had plenty of it.
Truth is they are between a rock and a hard place. They are not getting what they want to sell the club as their asking price is ridiculous. On the other hand they are not taking dividends and are facing the repayment or restructuring of the loans used to buy the club fairly soon. The club cannot take on more debt, so they either find some minority investment, or put their own money in - which they will not. They are currently sat on a valuable asset which is earning them nothing compared to the value of that asset. Eventually I think they may need to eat humble pie and take the best offer on the table. That’s what I think the bidders are banking on anyway. Just my opinion.
I really don’t think they, or the club, can afford it.
I'm going to Qatar in late October, I'm getting this done.
I'm sure it's been explained 20 times in the thread but simple question : Since United carry the debt, I suppose new owners will have to manage that (or pay it off) on top of whatever they're paying the Glazers ? Plus the much discussed infrastructure investment.
Greedy leeches bought the club for 800m£, can probably get 5 times that on top of all the dividends they took.
It is the right moment for a sale : Revenue is still high, so if a new owner could drastically reduce debt, United would be in a healthy position to sustain itself.
Greedy leeches bought the club for 800m£, can probably get 5 times that on top of all the dividends they took.
It is the right moment for a sale : Revenue is still high, so if a new owner could drastically reduce debt, United would be in a healthy position to sustain itself.
Enterprise value is generally the method used when valuing a company. In short, using the £6B that has been bandied about, this pretty much means Glazer shares + public shares + debt - cash/equivalents = £6B.
Louis?
I am a pragmatic kinda guy, I do not expect anyone to sell something for less than it is worth, so as much as I hate the Glazers I cannot criticise them for wanting the full value of the club, I cannot however reconcile their valuation supposedly based on growth, I know this is part of any deal to buy a business, you buy with an eye to what the business can be, but they seem to want the price 5 years down the line right now post investment and improvements to the infrastructure it just seems ridiculously unreasonable, right now I am beginning to worry that not only will this deal not happen, but that it is a pivotal moment, I think the Glazers are playing chicken believing Qatar will increase their offer, if that doesn't happen we are going to be in an increasingly dire financial situation, I fear that we are about to see a crisis which will set the club back years
This is going to happen. We’re being so cautious over FFP to avoid leaving the Qataris a problem- we can go big in January and next summer. On that basis I’m happy with the approach to the transfer market.
I would have thought the opposite. If they knew the Qatari's were taking over you'd imagine they'd have more wiggle room and would be less cautious about FFP this summer.
Most of this 800 million was paid by the club. They already got the money they put in through IPO and dividends.
If Utd was worth more, more than 1 full sale bidder would be involved…
It‘s embarrassing and comical watching them try to will a ‘bidding war’ from 1 and a half bidders, neither of which have raised their bids in months as the club is falling apart in almost every possible way.
They’re clowns. Utter clowns.
Amazed the media aren’t going in and feasting on them en masse. Money I guess.
This isn’t normal business though, it’s a non profit.
The value of the club is already at a premium and it won’t be valued at £6B on the NYSE in 5 years time, regardless of better TV deals and expanded champions league formats.
The valuation is even more unlikely as there isn’t any funds for renovating or building a new stadium. Sure, more debt could be added to the club but spending £1B to add £1B in value cancels each other out and just means the Glazers are hanging around for a few more years with zero gain to themselves.
In 2013, the share price was close to $17, before the announcement that the club might be for sale, the share price was $13. We are now at the inflated $23 and it’s unlikely to hit this price point naturally in the future if any sale doesn’t go through.
Ultimately you have to have interested parties and it’s unlikely you will have a United fan and a mega rich/state backed bid bidding again in the future, also it’s only as valuable as someone is willing to offer and it doesn’t matter if the Glazers sell now or down the road, the valuation isn’t likely to fluctuate too much. What could happen is that the debt rises and the Glazers take less money after debt is repaid if they sold in 5 years.
This sale will happen, just depends on when it will complete.
Let's face it the media have never properly hammered these leeches. They usually spun it as these people have spent however much since Fergie retired. Have always felt bar a few journos they have brushed the taking money out under the carpet which is frankly disgraceful.
This is it. They will as a family have all kinds of funny money investments that are predicated on low interest rates. They will be trying to screw each other over in way we can't anticipate.
Couldn’t agree more.
When Ashley owned Newcastle it seemed like they couldn’t wait to castigate him as an owner at every opportunity, every protest newsworthy and appealing to to the plight and frustration of their fans and rightly so but it seems to be a different agenda with the Glazers and United.
Even the Saudi takeover seems to have been received with little fuss, I doubt very much it will be received with little fuss if the Qataris buy United and while I understand the size of our club will make that big news more so than Newcastle it definitely feels like “positive vibes” for Newcastle something I doubt will be the same for us.(and I’m not cheerleading for jassim before anyone loses their shit, just pointing out the potential extremities of opinion between the 2 clubs should a Qatari takeover of United happen)
The media has attacked them. David Conn wrote some blistering articles a while back and various hacks, as well as Gary Neville, have been pretty vocal. But it's like water off a duck's back. The Glazer family stick together and say nothing to the press. They don't give them any ammunition they can use and so it's all one sided and if your target doesn't respond, there's little a journalist can do.
It's a bit complicated. Jassim's bid is for the whole club, and he will absorb the debt. Ratcliffe wants to purchase the Galzer's portion of the share alone, so debt will remain on the books unless he decides to infuse more equity in which will be difficult because of listing requirements in the stock exchange on public float.
That would be my understanding and Sir Jim would be tied into the into the ownership mess.
So if the Glazers wanted to merely fix the roof at Old Trafford they would have the following options
1 that they would independently invest/pay 80% towards the cost, being 80% owners of the club, then get the Class A shareholders to pay the other 20%. Chances of this happening are zero. There's no way the Glazers are going to be putting 80% of their own money never having invested in that way before. Also there is no way the other shareholders are going to be putting 20% because they receive little return and have no control.
2 Glazers independently meet the whole cost. There's no way the Glazers will meet the cost for the reasons given above and also they will be subsidising the Class A shareholders by, in effect, giving them 20%
3 the Glazers/club obtain external finance, say a bank, however they seem to have maxed out the credit facilities unless they offer the bank some greater incentive however these businessmen know that all of the finances are finely balanced and therefore by borrowing more things will deteriorate, financially, even more than they are now.
4. Plough some profits into the repairs, but they haven't had dividends for a couple of years and the siblings are already restless.
4. Their thinking would be - there is no profit in repairing the roof but they may have to due the safety and regulatory reasons otherwise why waste money!
The momentum in this thread is astonishing given the lack of movement of real events, possibly propelled by the hatred for Glazers! Looks to have slowed down over the last 50 pages or so though.
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I don't see Glazers staying as a viable option. They need to sell and move on.
It's the Glazers they do this all the time even in the transfer market, remember when they turned down a bid for Romero from Everton and then we ended literally giving him away with a bitter parting of ways with someone who was a loyal, popular servant of the club? They will do the same, most likely having Ineos around will save their backsides, watch the Qatari walk away in the next six to twelve months and then the Glazers finally realize that you actually need to spend and spend heavily to remain in the CL which they can't do and they will frantically conclude a sale. They always haggle and curve in at the end.
Well, yeah, but even from a valuation perspective (irrespective that they actually even paid 800m out their own pockets), you'd think more than quintupling the sticker price in two decades and having a buyer for it would be enough.
So if I understand correctly and to put it in layman's terms you're saying F92 earmarked some of their money to absorb the debt right away while Ratcliffe -as I have seen speculated- would perhaps restructure it in his larger holdings ? Or am I reading too much ?
Yea, unfortunately the word 'enough' doesn't seem to be in their vocabulary at all. As long as they believe that people will be willing to pay more for releasing the
You're right about F92 but Ratcliffe can't restructure United's debt in his larger holdings directly unless he issues himself shares of equivalent value to the debt which he is taking out. The prob with this approach is it will mean lesser public float in the stock exchange, which may not be permitted. Unlike Abrahamovich who did the same, he won't be the "owner" of United, but simply first among the shareholders.
Just a small number of fans protesting the ownership at the end, given that there was over 70,000 fans in attendance its quite a pathetic protest to be honest, but the team won so all good....
I'm not sure that's the case because Ratcliffe isn't bidding for United, INEOS is.
More of this needless negativity. Are you a rival fan or what?
Looked like around 10, 000 which is an impressive turnout.
If I was them I would take the money and run. Club is mess and they are the core issues, there is no fixing this; no matter what they do they make a mess of it. They have a great offer, take the money and run.
Utter fools as businessmen, won the lottery with this.
Utter fools as businessmen, won the lottery with this.
Well said.
That is impressive.
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