Club Sale | It’s done!

[stevoc]

Of course not, maybe I’m not explaining it very clearly, what I’m saying is we can all see that it’s probably a state bid but the evidence that they present to UEFA and premier league will show it’s a private bid, how they do that (backhanders, clever lawyers and accountants) who knows but that is the evidence that they present and it only really matters how UEFA and the premier league see it, unlike PSG which, correct me if I’m wrong, has always been open about the fact it is owned by QSI and therefore state backed..

Fair enough mate and yeah PSG are openly state backed. Unlike City and Newcastle who for some reason claim to be privatly owned.

 

[Ken Barlow]

Feels like the momentum is picking up again. Comments in the media from a viable source and planned repeated protests must contribute to the pressure being cranked up right now. If we were close to any sort of outcome, whatever that looks like, it must be close.

Is today the day...?

 

[GazTheLegend]

Feels like the momentum is picking up again. Comments in the media from a viable source and planned repeated protests must contribute to the pressure being cranked up right now. If we were close to any sort of outcome, whatever that looks like, it must be close.

Is today the day...?

Old Trafford is going to be fecking toxic tonight. If the Glazers think that they can just punch through recent events and all will be forgotten they are going to be reminded big time. I'm not saying the chants are going to be justified and I'm sure the broadcasters will ignore it all but the "glazers are gonna die" chant is gonna be LOUD

 

[Andy_Cole]

Wearing my green and gold scarf tonight for sure

 

[Lay]

I forgot all about this somehow

 

[edgecutter]

The transfer fees at the moment should get them thinking about selling. If most clubs are paying 100 million for players united won't be able to compete with glazer ownership. Never mind the massive investment needed for facilities.

 

[MDFC Manager]

Share price picking up..

 

[Ken Barlow]

Old Trafford is going to be fecking toxic tonight. If the Glazers think that they can just punch through recent events and all will be forgotten they are going to be reminded big time. I'm not saying the chants are going to be justified and I'm sure the broadcasters will ignore it all but the "glazers are gonna die" chant is gonna be LOUD

Totally agree. The difference from before is there was hope it was being sorted for the summer, or worst case during the summer. The gimps are on a knife edge now that there is regular games and a regular platform to increase the pressure. Just imagine the response if any of the potential buyers publicly pull out and there's a game a few days later.

Chanting and protests alone are not going to swing any decisions, but it might fast track them a little. Hate to admit it since I'm not the biggest fan of MUST, but their statement today was pretty good. This and other stuff getting picked up by the media should pressure this shitbag family to give accountability for their greed.

 

[Rood]

Fair enough mate and yeah PSG are openly state backed. Unlike City and Newcastle who for some reason claim to be privatly owned.

Newcastle don't claim to be privately owned, how could they when they are openly owned by the PIF (the SWF of Saudi Arabia)?
They did make some worthless promise (with fingers crossed behind their backs) that the Saudi state (i.e. the Crown Prince MBS) was not involved in decision making at the club.

City do officially claim to be private, but the owner is the Deputy PM of UAE and brother of the current ruler so MOTWYW.

 

[Rood]

Totally agree. The difference from before is there was hope it was being sorted for the summer, or worst case during the summer. The gimps are on a knife edge now that there is regular games and a regular platform to increase the pressure. Just imagine the response if any of the potential buyers publicly pull out and there's a game a few days later.

Chanting and protests alone are not going to swing any decisions, but it might fast track them a little. Hate to admit it since I'm not the biggest fan of MUST, but their statement today was pretty good. This and other stuff getting picked up by the media should pressure this shitbag family to give accountability for their greed.

I would hope it would but I seriously doubt it will make any difference whatsoever, still it's always good for the fans to make their feelings clear

 

[strandty]

Correct me if I am wrong but when eventually there's a deal, we'll know for sure, right?

Because certainly they'll have to say how much they're paying for the class A shares but surely also the class Bs 'fate' should be clarified.

They legally have to inform the NYSE whenever an agreement is reached so yes.

 

[Roboc7]

Old Trafford is going to be fecking toxic tonight. If the Glazers think that they can just punch through recent events and all will be forgotten they are going to be reminded big time. I'm not saying the chants are going to be justified and I'm sure the broadcasters will ignore it all but the "glazers are gonna die" chant is gonna be LOUD

I think they are just banking on football being enough of a distraction, and that tonight will be the worst of it. History suggests they are probably right but pretty crazy first game is starting with two protests about different issues.

I have no doubt they are still trying to sell but in their own time and in their own terms. Unless results are terrible I think they know they can get away with it short term. Long term they don’t have the competence or funds to continue but even they know that now.

 

[croadyman]

Must love a pointless press release

So they aren't optimistic of any takeover

 

[AneRu]

I think they are just banking on football being enough of a distraction, and that tonight will be the worst of it. History suggests they are probably right but pretty crazy first game is starting with two protests about different issues.

I have no doubt they are still trying to sell but in their own time and in their own terms. Unless results are terrible I think they know they can get away with it short term. Long term they don’t have the competence or funds to continue but even they know that now.

None of the two bidders have threatened pulling out so the parasites know they have all the time in the world. Their big hope is to maybe attract a third bidder so if they prolong the process they hope that someone who considered themselves out of the running might just look up. They have done the rebuild on the pitch and the next set of results could very well paint the picture of a recovered club so Joel and Avram will be telling the rest to hold up until they smoke out another American buyer and I think they will.

 

[Rightnr]

They legally have to inform the NYSE whenever an agreement is reached so yes.

Yeah, the question is whether the details such as valuation of both types of shares will be transparent.

 

[Roboc7]

None of the two bidders have threatened pulling out so the parasites know they have all the time in the world. Their big hope is to maybe attract a third bidder so if they prolong the process they hope that someone who considered themselves out of the running might just look up. They have done the rebuild on the pitch and the next set of results could very well paint the picture of a recovered club so Joel and Avram will be telling the rest to hold up until they smoke out another American buyer and I think they will.

I actually think they’ll only attract more buyers if things get worse.

The initial outlay to buy the club, the huge investment on infrastructure, almost a billion in debt and the vast transfer funds required every summer just to finish in top 4 with increased competition make some improvement on the pitch and even slightly better revenue almost irrelevant.

The Glazers know you can piss all over fans and they’ll come back for more, all owners know and bank on that. Unless the protests escalate to levels seen for ESL they know they are fine. That’s only time they were ever worried and even then they made loads of empty promises they can continue to break and never be accountable for.

 

[George The Best]

Yeah, the question is whether the details such as valuation of both types of shares will be transparent.

In theory they should be of the same value. Voting rights don’t make the B shares more valuable. All shares were issued at the same nominal/par value.

 

[strandty]

Yeah, the question is whether the details such as valuation of both types of shares will be transparent.

If they're committing to buying shares at a set price, they will draw up a Share Purchase Agreement to be circulated to all the shareholders signalling the price they'll pay so you would imagine the full price for 100% should be easy enough to calculate, since all shares are equal value

 

[stevoc]

Newcastle don't claim to be privately owned, how could they when they are openly owned by the PIF (the SWF of Saudi Arabia)?
They did make some worthless promise (with fingers crossed behind their backs) that the Saudi state (i.e. the Crown Prince MBS) was not involved in decision making at the club.

City do officially claim to be private, but the owner is the Deputy PM of UAE and brother of the current ruler so MOTWYW.

Well City are also owned by an Abu Dhabi state investment fund yet claim to be private. Have Newcastle ever publicly said they are state owned?

As you say they gave the PL assurances that the PIF which owns Newcastle was seperate from the the Saudi Government. But that's clearly nonsense, how could they be majority owners and not have any control over Newcaslte?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/newcastle-saudi-arabia-pif-owner-liv-golf-b2292308.html

So publicly they have tried to distance themselves from Saudi state ownership/control.

 

[Moriarty]

Are the ugly brothers going to be there for the Wolves game? Anyone tracking private jets out of Florida?

 

[Ken Barlow]

Are the ugly brothers going to be there for the Wolves game? Anyone tracking private jets out of Florida?

Gary will be there for MNF, doubt Phil will be around.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

So publicly they have tried to distance themselves from Saudi state ownership/control.

Of course they have.

Have to keep up appearances (until they stupidly and blatantly contradict themselves when something like the golf thing inevitably comes up).

Though feck knows why: I don't think most people who are fine with this are actually stupid enough to believe the "it's just a fund/very rich dude" crap. They know what it is, they just pretend not to for reasons they should explain themselves (but they won't, because they prefer to keep up the pretence).

 

[Pexbo]

If people look through my various posts I’ve always said that 100% sale is £7.2-7.4 billion and called stupid, crazy. I’ll explain for the final time;

The Glazers want £6 billion for their 69% shares not £6 billion for 100% of the club they want to be paid £6 billion as a family to give up control.

The Club owes £535m historical debt for the LBO which is the responsibility of the Glazers so that would have to be paid off first to multiple lenders then the Glazers are paid the remaining of what’s left from £6bn.

The other debt is transfer amortisation debt and internal running of the club debt which can be settled and worked on when new owners take control.

The remaining 31% of the club are class A shares which the Glazers also own 4.3% of the total class A shares. So the Glazers have an interest and an obligation to get a good enterprise share value for these class A shares as well at say $35/36 per share..

There are 50m shares so that’s another $1.75bn or £1.378bn so add that to the £6bn for the Glazers inclusive of £535m debt and you have a combined fee of £7.2-7.4bn to buy 100% of the club.

It’s also important to note that of the 50 million class A Shares, the Glazers own 6.9m of those shares so they would receive an additional $248m or £195 million.

In other words after the debt for the LBO has been paid to the various lenders the Glazers will walk away with approximately £5.7bn between the 6 of them.

Are your calculations on the A shares being valued at $35/36 and the B shares being valued at what?

 

[Superunknown]

It's so predictable that we would reach the start of the season with no further progress in this area.

 

[Rood]

Well City are also owned by an Abu Dhabi state investment fund yet claim to be private. Have Newcastle ever publicly said they are state owned?

As you say they gave the PL assurances that the PIF which owns Newcastle was seperate from the the Saudi Government. But that's clearly nonsense, how could they be majority owners and not have any control over Newcaslte?

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/newcastle-saudi-arabia-pif-owner-liv-golf-b2292308.html

So publicly they have tried to distance themselves from Saudi state ownership/control.

No they aren't - it's an SPV that was set up just to buy the club so it does give them the legit right to claim it's private, but there have been leaked documents that links that company to a state company which is all part of the current UEFA investigation.

And anyway like I said, the owner of that company is Sheikh Mansour, the Deputy PM of UAE so the link is pretty clear.

Completely different to Newcastle where it's absolutely clear that it's state owned - the only question is about who exactly is making decisions and that's where the worthless promises come in.

 

[stevoc]

No they aren't - it's an SPV that was set up just to buy the club so it does give them the legit right to claim it's private, but there have been leaked documents that links that company to a state company which is all part of the current UEFA investigation.

And anyway like I said, the owner of that company is Sheikh Mansour, the Deputy PM of UAE so the link is pretty clear.

That was my point mate, it's quite clearly a state fund.

Completely different to Newcastle where it's absolutely clear that it's state owned - the only question is about who exactly is making decisions and that's where the worthless promises come in.

It clearly is I agree but to my knowledge they have never admitted that. Have you seen them confirm they are state owned?

If they haven't then the difference between them and City is basically semantics.

 

[jasT1981]

So is the sit in protest after game actually happening tonight?

Edit- Nope it's the Forest game not this one.

 

[stevoc]

Of course they have.

Have to keep up appearances (until they stupidly and blatantly contradict themselves when something like the golf thing inevitably comes up).

Though feck knows why: I don't think most people who are fine with this are actually stupid enough to believe the "it's just a fund/very rich dude" crap. They know what it is, they just pretend not to for reasons they should explain themselves (but they won't, because they prefer to keep up the pretence).

I think it was just so the PL could let the takeover go through to give them plausible deniability because of the Kashmoggi murder.

 

[Anustart89]

That was my point mate, it's quite clearly a state fund.



It clearly is I agree but to my knowledge they have never admitted that. Have you seen them confirm they are state owned?

If they haven't then the difference between them and City is basically semantics.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/newcastle-saudi-arabia-pif-owner-liv-golf-b2292308.html

 

[Woziak]

Are your calculations on the A shares being valued at $35/36 and the B shares being valued at what?

It’s not just the value of the B shares, Glazers want a premium payment to relinquish control of the club, they want compensation for the future broadcasting, merchandising and sponsorship deals that they have negotiated. That’s why they want a payment of £6 billion pounds to sell their 69% controlling shares, people continue to question this or find it staggering that six of the greediest human beings in the world would request a payment of £6bn to buy their controlling stake in one of the biggest sports club in the history of sport when one player was offered one Billion euros to play one season in the Saudi League this year.

If you look at Forbes recent valuation, the club is valued at $6billion but the market cap is only $3.5bn based on share price for A and B shares, the additional valuation is the potential with future broadcasting, merchandising opportunities plus the land currently owned in the clubs name but with the Glazers names on the deeds for the land surrounding the stadium.

 

[Woziak]

Correct me if I am wrong but when eventually there's a deal, we'll know for sure, right?

Because certainly they'll have to say how much they're paying for the class A shares but surely also the class Bs 'fate' should be clarified.

Absolutely the Class B shares and an agreement fee paid to relinquish control of the club will be made first as well as an agreement to pay off legacy debt to the various lenders, not the clubs working debt or amortised transfer debt.

The class A shares will then be offered an enterprise fair price value under cayman law offer which should be concluded 60/90 days after Class B and controlling shares are sold. The Glazers are notoriously difficult to deal with and all the initial fees will have to be disclosed because the club Will initially still be listed on the NYSE.

This in my humble opinion is why it’s taking so long, there is so much money to be paid out into various accounts and due diligence on fees this high could literally take months.

 

[Rood]

That was my point mate, it's quite clearly a state fund.



It clearly is I agree but to my knowledge they have never admitted that. Have you seen them confirm they are state owned?

If they haven't then the difference between them and City is basically semantics.

Well No it's not just semantics - the official difference is important and relates clearly to our own situation with the 92 Foundation which is even further away than either of these from obvious state ownership

There is no need for Newcastle to confirm they are state owned because it's 100% clear and undeniable

Man City slightly more murky but still relatively obvious

 

[Cloud7]

Was the orc in attendance today? After feigning interest by turning up at the cup final and during pre season, you would think he would show up for the first match of the season. Boehly and the Liverpool owner were there at theirs.

 

[IamBurnsey]

Ugh please just let this whole saga be over and done with, I don't know why I am believing the rumours of it being done in the coming months, I guess it is the hope that gets you in the end.

 

[croadyman]

Ugh please just let this whole saga be over and done with, I don't know why I am believing the rumours of it being done in the coming months, I guess it is the hope that gets you in the end.

Yeah gave up hope ages ago,would love something to happen out of the blue though

 

[stevoc]

Well No it's not just semantics - the official difference is important and relates clearly to our own situation with the 92 Foundation which is even further away than either of these from obvious state ownership

There is no need for Newcastle to confirm they are state owned because it's 100% clear and undeniable

Man City slightly more murky but still relatively obvious

Is it though?

Their official stance is that Newcastle are owned by a consortium of which the PIF are merely the majority shareholder. And ''officially'' the Saudi state have no control over the club.

I mean you have a right to your opinion mate and how you interpret it. But to me they are trying to present themselves as a private enterprise just as City are.

Me, you and anyone with half a brain know they are state owned but that isn't necessarily the official line from the club.

 

[stevoc]

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/newcastle-saudi-arabia-pif-owner-liv-golf-b2292308.html

Yeah I posted a similar link the other day mate.

The Premier League were given assurances at the time of the takeover that the Public Inverstment Fund was separate to the Saudi state

It's always seemed to me they were trying to distance Newcastle from state ownership.

 

[Anustart89]

Yeah I posted a similar link the other day mate.



It's always seemed to me they were trying to distance Newcastle from state ownership.

At least to the Premier League. Which they had to do to get in through the door. But then in that other court case they claimed they were part of the Saudi government because it fit them to do so. So one is definitely a lie, and I have a feeling which one.

 

[stevoc]

At least to the Premier League. Which they had to do to get in through the door. But then in that other court case they claimed they were part of the Saudi government because it fit them to do so. So one is definitely a lie, and I have a feeling which one.

Yeah that's what I was referring to mate.

The whole takeover was a farce, it's obviously state owned and controlled.

 

[strandty]

Not someone any of us tend to listen to but Ben Jacobs says “selling side sources” insist the hold up is on the Qatar side because their method of purchase isn’t ready from a legal or logistical point of view. He touched on it below too recently: