But why would info coming from SJR be reliable and from Qatar be propaganda?
Reuters and Bloomberg will have plenty other sources. They arent a Qatar mouthpiece
Club Sale | It’s done!
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But why would info coming from SJR be reliable and from Qatar be propaganda?
Reuters and Bloomberg will have plenty other sources. They arent a Qatar mouthpiece
I'd have Ashley above them, to be fair. He relegated Newcastle twice.
Nail on the head, they've shot themselves in the foot with the comments they've made.
Gutted, to be honest. I feel like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place because I know the Glazers are parasites that are bad for the club, but I equally don't want us to become a club that tries to buy success. I'm really conflicted about it all, I'd give my left nut for us to be bought by somebody that just cleared the debt and had us running as well as we should, paying our own way with our self-generated wealth. Plus no baggage with regards to human rights, sportswashing, greenwashing etc etc. The PL should have put measures in to ensure clubs are partly fan owned in some form, but they took the £££ route and now have the best league in the world whilst the rest struggle.
It’s market manipulation then. They have a duty as directors and made a promise through official channels which had a massive effect on the share price. People believed them and invested in the company and they’re doing the opposite of what they said.
Those shares exist because they created them when they sold their own capital. They have a responsibility to those shareholders as directors of the company. Just because those shares don’t have voting rights doesn’t mean they don’t have a duty to act in their best interests, especially after specifically making the promise to.
For some reason I read the first line as Sir Jim is dead.
Then what's stopping Jassim from lowering his bid and really taking the pee?
Jassim vs Jim is the undercard to Musk vs ZuckerbergFor some reason I read the first line as Sir Jim is dead.
Of course the minority shareholders would get shafted in that case, but if they can legally do it, and they want to do it, then they will. Besides, not all the Glazers would be selling in the event that they take the SJR offer. It's an unclear situation with a lot of variables at play.
But why would info coming from SJR be reliable and from Qatar be propaganda?
Reuters and Bloomberg will have plenty other sources. They arent a Qatar mouthpiece
If SJR said his own bid was dead, that would hold more weight than Qatar saying it, no?
All sources are saying nobody knows much. I am increasingly convinced this shit is due to infighting in the Glazer clan.
I see the argument for Ashley, but I think taking over the best club in the Country and not even putting up a title challenge in the last 10 years is worse. It's not even a tough gig. They just needed to sit there and let United carry on, but they couldn't even do that. Riddled the club with people tasked with making the Glazers richer rather than people tasked to make United better
Also in Ashley's favour is that there was just one (very big) him vs 6 siblings all squabbling over everything, he actually spoke to the fans occasionally and he was an actual businessman rather than just inheriting everything
Didn't you invest?
The post you quoted was me saying that Class A shareholders can't force the Glazers to sell a club they own for their own profit or to 'improve the facilities'. Do you disagree with that? The Glazers aren't thinking 'oh, Pexbo from RedCafe and his $25 share want us to fix the roof but we can't afford it, looks like we'll have to sell to take care of those Class A shareholders'.
The Glazers have done a lot of things that have probably hurt share prices, but that has never stopped them being able to do it anyway.
They’re still using the threat of staying with minority investment.
I don’t think the Qatari’s are fussed about paying up, I just think they were happy edging to the winning line rather than offering £8bn to get it done and paying £2bn more than they had to.
You wonder what would happen if the four tried to sue the two for their money. There is history of that in the Glazer family.
The 5th/6th final bid was 3 weeks ago but there are very strong rumours that what was reported was not accurate and the bid was nearer to £5.4/5.5bn due to a £200m bonus for a quick conclusion, it seems this was originally considered and maybe tentatively accepted but then Joel and Avram looked at the new accounts with predicted record revenues and then wanted more.
They may even have convinced other siblings to wait and draw it out so they can get there £6bn yes for the last time, this is what they want $7.5bn between 6 of them minus the club debt which is in the Glazer name as they leveraged the club.
This is not the full sale price. The Greedy glazers want £6bn($7.5bn) together where each and every sibling would get at least £1bn to walk away.
People keeping asking how can this be when they own 69% of B shares or 113m and then 6.9m A class of the 50m minority shares. They conclude that even at a ridiculous premium of $40 that would only be $4.5bm, for the last time they want another $3bn on top of that to relinquish control ?
Their arguments are as follows ;
1. The club owns land, some 43 acres near the stadium that with the right type investment could be worth $2bn
2. The Club is on the up with record revenues and more future opportunities like FIFA Club World Cups which will increase revenue exponentially plus the CL qualification for the PL will become top 5 and united have only missed the Top 5 twice in 20 years.
3. They have future Broadcasting revenues contracts worth millions and they are only going to increase in Asia and North America.
4. They have a waiting list of 360,000 fans and a new state of the art 100,000 all seater stadium will increase future Match-day income by at least 50% so basically it pays for itself over 10 years even at £1bn investment.
They have control of the club and to walk away collectively they want the extra legacy and enterprise future premium payments to compensate them for future lost revenue and growth of the club.
So assuming it’s true that the last bid for SJ was an incredible £5.4bn then the debt would have to come off that figure so they would receive approx £4.85bn($6.1bn) just for the Glazers, that’s currently more than twice the market cap for their shares and it’s still not enough.
Looking on from the outside it seems that SJ/Qatar quickly realised they were bidding against themselves and got fed up and probably hypothesised that if the Glazers were selling that it could only be to them, so they dropped this bid thinking that must surely do it. Fast forward three weeks and now the Goblins Are bickering amongst themselves after record revenue in a Europa League season, they are strongly considering staying and some minority investment.
Simple conclusion, the Goblins want £6.bn, just for themselves and it’s a last hand in their last game of poker, should they turn the current rumoured bid down, they will get unmeasurable abuse from fans, a vote of no confidence from the board and maybe still legal challenges from huge minority shareholders who would have lost out on potential sell out at $38 enterprise share sale.
The reality is no one knows, but my guess is if SJ and 92 Foundation are not announced in the next 2 weeks, the Glazers will stay with minority investment propping them up and making the club the laughing stock of the sporting world.
It might actually take all United fans not turning up at our first home game at old Trafford, literally not be so only the away fans are in the stadium, Of course fans have already paid for season tickets so highly unlikely but it might take something like this to finally push them out
Didn't he also spend his own money, not as much as the fans wanted, but he did.
It’s already been established that they can’t legally do it. It’s not unclear at all hence dead in the water
Minority investment is just not happening. I just can't see any club compete with City and Newcastle. Plus there's Chelsea which looks pretty murky. The PL is not exactly the NFL where everyone gets a slice. At the moment It's a case who blinks first, the Glazers or Jassim. I believe both sides want this to happen.
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They ( The Glazer's) unlike Utd have been champions every year they've been at the club...in terms of ownership they are a malignant aggressive cancer and if treatment is not forthcoming the prognosis for the patient looks dismal.
Sure they can. They could've heard the rumours about SJR's bid having legal issues with the shareholders, just like us, and feel that the Glazers have no way out but to sell to them. There's your confidence.
It’s currently costing them £5.5bn plus the 50m shares they will have to buy at $38 for 100% buy out which is $1.9bm more or £1.5bn that’s £7bn bid already. They have said day one they want to buy 100% and de list the club.
For the last time the £6bn is not for 100% sale of the club it is just what the six Glazers siblings want to leave the premises and SJ has offered them £5.2/5.4bn and that might not be enough ?
I don't think it would be as straightforward as you think if only 4 of the 6 sell up. You can't force the other 2 to sell, and you can't force the other 4 to remain. Legally, where that would leave them would be for the courts to decide. But it sounds like pretty untested waters from what I've read.
Sure but I see no reason why he would do that.
I agree but the Glazers want more money than currently on the table
No, but that is why I said it would be more credible if it came from SJR.
Are those NYSE rules? Do they apply to companies incorporated in the Cayman Isles?
Ah okay. yeah that makes sense
Yeah I’ve bought a bunch of shares because I was happy to put my money where my mouth is - with what we know about the clubs finances, since the beginning logic has said that Qatar will win this.Didn't you invest?
The post you quoted was me saying that Class A shareholders can't force the Glazers to sell a club they own for their own profit or to 'improve the facilities'. Do you disagree with that? The Glazers aren't thinking 'oh, Pexbo from RedCafe and his $25 share want us to fix the roof but we can't afford it, looks like we'll have to sell to take care of those Class A shareholders'.
The Glazers have done a lot of things that have probably hurt share prices, but that has never stopped them being able to do it anyway.
That’s completely beside the point though and I think you know that and are arguing in bad faith now.
I’ll break it down for you one last time.
- Last year the Glazers put out a statement saying they were exploring strategic alternatives which include investment or sale. They made clear this was to benefit the club, fans, shareholders and stakeholders.
- Off the back of that statement the share price rocketed.
- The Glazers have two offers.
- One ticks all the boxes of what they promised including premium for the shareholders and major investment in the club (which will satisfy fans and stakeholders like sponsors etc).
- The other is a nice little earner for them. Has no promise to clear debt and no promise of investment.
They are directors of the company. They have responsibility to their shareholders. They currently have an offer that will make a lot of people a LOT of money, my shares are so few they are inconsequential, I’m under no illusion of that however, there are firms holding tens of millions of dollars worth of MUFC shares on behalf of their clients and they will be arming themselves with huge legal teams if the Glazers do not act in their best interests.
David Hellier from Bloomberg said the bit about Ratcliffe's bid (as structured now) being dead came from advisors to the club, not anyone from the Qatari bid.
I completely understand what you are saying, but I just question whether there would be a case to be made or if they even care, that is all. The hold up could literally be their lawyers looking for ways to make this deal happen. Nobody knows.
Yep, genuinely think we were in a slightly different position 2 weeks ago to where we are now, it either gets done with Qatar or it drags on but it’s definitely not done like some Twitter idiots are quoting!
Fair enough. Seems counterproductive of the club/Glazers to put that info out there, but we'll see how it shakes out. Like I said, I can't read the article to see who his source is due to the paywall. Just going off a summary I read elsewhere, and him retweeting another tweet claiming Qatar to be the source.
Can you post a link/copy and paste where you got this info?
I believe he also mentioned 3 of the Independent directors at the Club have also confirmed they won't be voting in favour of Ineos bid in Current form unless they get some sort of Understanding with minority shareholders who are threatening to Sue .
Of course that’s enough. Anything more just isn’t possible so logically it’s enough. The Glazers accepting it or not is a different matter.
There’s no reality that has the Glazers staying on unless the Glazers who want to leave sell up and somehow gives it all to the the two hold outs to invest in OT etc. Not one fear-monger has laid out a plausible solution that has Glazers who want to sell up to sell up and the two who wants to stay..well stay. Not one scenario has the Glazers staying that wasn’t possible pre sale announcement and I can’t see how the borrowing rates are any better 9 months later from the period they secretly went looking for investment and couldn’t get anything done.
But of a rant there but I just kept typing!
Ok fair enough that’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it
The third largest shareholder has sent a letter in making their thoughts clear on it and it’s been reported that the minority owning hedge funds are threatening legal action over it so I guess that’s their opinions and they’re entitled to that too.
BJ for Jim Ratcliffe? In that case I will never use the term "How about a BJ?". Will never get those pictures out of my head. Thanks.
Rat tales.
Well not if United were playing there that day but yeah I think you're right it is OT.
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