Club Sale | It’s done!

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Great summary.

And Jimmy Ratcliffe/Ineos shouldn’t be underrated. It’s a big group. You can see how they could benefit from getting a lot of attention.

They have started selling that car, Ineos Grenadier, copy of the old Land Roover defender, built to be as practical as possible, diesel straight 6, fairly cheap at 45k.


They own what 3 football teams. Into cycling and F1 too. Should have the resources, but the group’s structure is really complex and it’s hard to figure out it’s financial status.


See I've now watched that video and taken an active interest in the Gernadier, purely because he maybe wants to buy United, will no doubt mention it and make someone else look it up at some point too.

It's not all about how much United will make them, it's about how much owning the club will make them in their other business interests aswell.

I'm with you btw, I think Ratcliffe is been dismissed too quickly by some.
 
My reason for dismissing Ratcliffe was because running to give an interview to any journalist who would ask it always seemed that publicity was his motivation and not the likely actions of anyone who had any serious ambition to buy the club.
 
My reason for dismissing Ratcliffe was because running to give an interview to any journalist who would ask it always seemed that publicity was his motivation and not the likely actions of anyone who had any serious ambition to buy the club.

as far as I know he only talked about it once at an FT conference
 
After the Gakpo fiasco happy to accept ME owners despite the obvious issues with them
If it took a player like Gakpo to turn your head, you clearly always thought this way. Its not like we've lost out on Ronaldinho.
 
as far as I know he only talked about it once at an FT conference

You wouldn't talk to any journalist. At all. You'd say absolutely nothing to anyone until you got it over the line.

The club wasn't publicly for sale at that point. Why the feck would anyone serious not be concerned with driving up a final asking price by publicly announcing interest in a way that would benefit his bid in no shape or form?

He was as serious in buying the club as Graham Norton is in buying tit implants.
 
My reason for dismissing Ratcliffe was because running to give an interview to any journalist who would ask it always seemed that publicity was his motivation and not the likely actions of anyone who had any serious ambition to buy the club.
I think he’s used the media (and the Chelsea bid for that matter) to set out his stall - I’m here, I’m keen and I’ve got the cash - and to put pressure on the Glazers. Now the serious business has started he’s gone quiet, hopefully to put his bid together and prepare for a successful take over!
 
I think he’s used the media (and the Chelsea bid for that matter) to set out his stall - I’m here, I’m keen and I’ve got the cash - and to put pressure on the Glazers. Now the serious business has started he’s gone quiet, hopefully to put his bid together and prepare for a successful take over!
His Chelsea bid was low ball and after the deadline. He wasn't serious then either.
 
You wouldn't talk to any journalist. At all. You'd say absolutely nothing to anyone until you got it over the line.

you’re back on your favourite hill I see

no idea if what you said is true or not, but your steadfast commitment to this point is admirable
 
I think he’s used the media (and the Chelsea bid for that matter) to set out his stall - I’m here, I’m keen and I’ve got the cash - and to put pressure on the Glazers. Now the serious business has started he’s gone quiet, hopefully to put his bid together and prepare for a successful take over!

Absolutely, said the same the other day, he's got what he intended from the media, now it would serve no purpose whatsoever to now give a running commentary of what's happening, in many ways the silence is good.
 
Great summary.

And Jimmy Ratcliffe/Ineos shouldn’t be underrated. It’s a big group. You can see how they could benefit from getting a lot of attention.

They have started selling that car, Ineos Grenadier, copy of the old Land Roover defender, built to be as practical as possible, diesel straight 6, fairly cheap at 45k.

They own what 3 football teams. Into cycling and F1 too. Should have the resources, but the group’s structure is really complex and it’s hard to figure out it’s financial status.
Agree Ratcliffe is definitely a runner. The one caution against his chances would be his previous affirmations that Premier League clubs are overvalued and that INEOS will never be the "dumb money" in football.

Contrast this with American investors, who widely believe that Premier League clubs are undervalued (see hyperlinks).

Therefore, given that we can be fairly certain the Glazers will sell to whichever party bids the highest, there's likely a fair probability that Ratcliffe will be outbid due to his valuation of the club not matching those of his American competitors'.
 
His Chelsea bid was low ball and after the deadline. He wasn't serious then either.

Was it low ball? The number I saw was ahead of Boehly’s initial bid and it looked like Bohely raised his as a result of JRs interest. But it could definitely have been a bad source behind the info I saw.
 
Was it low ball? The number I saw was ahead of Boehly’s initial bid and it looked like Bohely raised his as a result of JRs interest. But it could definitely have been a bad source behind the info I saw.
It wasn’t low ball, but it wasn’t higher than Boehly’s bid just different terms and it was too late to matter anyway.
 
His Chelsea bid was low ball and after the deadline. He wasn't serious then either.
His Chelsea bid was a stalking horse. It was £4.25bn btw, so no - not even close to low ball. But yes it was after the deadline, of course he wasn’t serious - he wants United!
He had been linked to bidding for United by all the Knighton silliness, and made his interest clear but at that point the club wasn’t officially for sale. His Chelsea bid was just showing he could follow through as a way to peak the Glazers interest. In my opinion he also publicised his whole ‘I’m not interested in PL anymore, I’m concentrating on Nice’ thing as a hurry up to the Glazers. It’s all posturing and positioning for a sale.
 
Jimmy Ratcliffe is an interesting option. Some thoughts I have on him.

1. First of all, there have been a lot of talk about his personal wealth. He would never buy us, it would be Ineos. Ineos owns Nice, the Cycling team and so forth.

2. From my take on JR, he is the type who have traits that could make him a bad owner or a great owner. ME owners would never be great or bad, just good. They will throw money around and hire people with a good CV to do the job. They are very experienced high level investors, that looks to have more hits than misses. Relaxed investors.

In a sense I think JR is the complete opposite. That is why he is so successful in the field he works in. All businesses are different. Investing in real estate is just extremely basic. Some businesses needs entrepreneurs, people with vision. Communicators. Other needs to be extremely tightly run.

JRs field, ie operating big industrial plants etc, they are literary the opposite of a self playing piano. A store will keep getting in customers, people will rent apartments. You can affect that business on the margin. The natural state of a big industrial production facility is to break down. The biggest reason for Ratcliffe’s success is that he acquired smaller parts of enormous cooperations (like British Petroleum) that didn’t work that well, and made them work by paying a great great deal of attention to them. That, and always keeping his eyes on the big picture, streamlining things, etc is what characterize successful leaders in industries like this. It’s a business with huge turnover but small profits, that on top of everything is highly volatile and impacted by macroeconomic factors. 3 years in a row, you can make profits of 15%, then the following 5 years market prices can be down 20 percent and you fight for your life to keep your head above water.

Does that translate well to leading a football club? Nah, it’s probably the opposite. If you buy a struggling plant with a turnover of 5bn from a company like BP with a turnover of 160bn, in the 1980s, you couldn’t come in and let everyone know that it would be business as usual. You would have needed to question everything. This cost money, why is it done? And you better have made sure that the answer you get actually adds up, and is not something stated for whatever reason other than the company’s best in mind. Just making smaller changes can require a tremendous amount of work. You need to be super persistent.

Translated to a football environment, that would be like an owner coming in asking stuff like — and demanding answers that adds up regarding — why do we spend money on a youth team, wouldn’t it be more effective just buying finished players? Why do we have a scouting department, can’t we get info on players from a third part service? Should we own the stadium or sell it and lease It back? We are a football club not a real estate company? We only have three backup goalies, what if all three get hurt at the same time? Makes me nervous, think we should have 5.

I am joking, but you get what I mean hopefully. But at the same time, Ratcliffe is of course not stupid. Today, his group is so big that he probably is more or less a passive owner in most regards. But if he buys this team, I am 100% certain that he would leave his mark on it. In some ways, it will be positives, and others, it could be negative. Organizing a big plant, transportation of goods, stuff like that is digital. Shipping through the Suez Canal cost more but is faster than going around Africa. A meddling owner can get a digital answer of the impact of doing it one way instead the other. There is — perhaps — not a blueprint to the same extent for how to run a football club. It’s ever-changing if nothing else.

OTOH, if he remains sharp, take in the landscape of the game as it is right now, with FFP rules that requires artificial constructions, acknowledge that by the laws of average you will make some good and some bad signings, that what worked 5 years ago might now work anymore — etc etc etc — he could be a dream owner.

I like JR. But he also scares me a bit. His type can be brilliant, but also a complete and utter train wrecks if they lose their wits a bit with age or just don’t adopt to a new environment or whatever.

3. The Red Bull group, City Football Group and Chelsea have for a long time now taken measures to gain advantages in how the football landscape looks right now, and that will help even more as the game progress with new FFP rules etc. We can say a lot about those clubs, but they do a lot of smart things.

I think there is a dream scenario here from my POV, and that would be if Ratcliffe teamed up with others, David Beckham for example. If he looked at the Red Bull way — a competitor he knows perfectly well from the F1 circus — and tries to do what they have done, but in a bigger and better way. Ineos has a JV with PetroChina, but doesn’t to much business in Asia or the US. Could he get some of Beckham’s pals from the ME onboard to? To be able to spread the wings towards the East. Footballs growth will come from Asia.

It is as simple as this with the new FFP rules and basic rules of the game:
1. Talent cost money. The more you can spend, the more likely you are to have success.
2. With the new FFP rules, there are clear caps on how much you can spend.
3. Any expenses related to your youth team does — not — count as expenses against the new FFP rules. If you buy 10 youth players for 100m and sell one of them for 50m, it’s not a 50m loss but a 50m profit in the eyes of the FFP rules. Hence, you will be able to spend another 50m on your team. It’s the same with the arena. Investments in the arena does not count against the FFP rules, but all income from the arena does. Doesn’t have to be football related.

Others will be taking advantage of these things. To compete, we must do too. And as the rules currently are structured — you gain tremendous advantages by being large, by having resources. RB is a football talent factory. Extremely professional.

If you have the infrastructure in place. One scouting organization. One medical organization. One scheme for how to develop youths. 10 clubs can benefit from that infrastructure just as well as 1 club. But the price is born by more the biggest the group is. Classic synergy effects. Ratcliffe could build a group with a team in the Nordic’s, OGC Nice, Inter Miami, get a team in China, South America, Belgium, Portugal, Spain or whatever. Other clubs the group gets can be really cheap, they would benefit and raise in the ranks in their national leagues over time. There are so many benefits. Like the MSL plays like March to October. Zidane Iqbal aren’t playing many games right now. He could be on United’s bench for August to May, but play games in the MSL during the summer.

It wasn’t low ball, but it wasn’t higher than Boehly’s bid just different terms and it was too late to matter anyway.

Thanks! And yeah, it was extremely late. They had a four step process; initial bids, the creation of a short list, further negotiations before a preferred buyer was selected, and after a preferred buyer was selected the final negotiations were to take place (mostly formalities). JR entered the race — after — Boehly had been selected as a preferred buyer.

Don’t know what to make of that. But that process did start with a neck breaking pace. Could be perfectly legit reasons for needing a few months just to evaluate a potential purchase.
 
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I'm actually not so sure that such ME bidders are inevitable.
Outside of those funds, we're simply looking at private individuals/firms, who really aren't in the same bracket of buyers as wealth funds. For example, see the "distinguished" ownerships of GFH at Leeds United, Munto Finance at Notts Country, the Al-Hasawi family at Nottingham Forest, Al Thani at Malaga.

Aramco. They have more money than god and have been splashing it around (in sports) only recently.
 
Those feckers better sell now and leave the January transfer window to the new owners.

Fecking cheapskates of the worst kind. Hope they will be found guilty of some major fraudulent scheme that will get them in jail and force the rest of that family to live on welfare for the rest of their lives.
 
Those feckers better sell now and leave the January transfer window to the new owners.

Fecking cheapskates of the worst kind. Hope they will be found guilty of some major fraudulent scheme that will get them in jail and force the rest of that family to live on welfare for the rest of their lives.

Unfortunately it seem too late. Laurie Whitwell reporting that only loans will be considered in January. Shame if true.

I believe we'll now miss out on top 4 if we don't get a striker, or 2.
 
These rats really are going out on their all-time low and that is really saying something after this year's Jan transfer window. Definition of pond life of businessmen.

And yet we have delusional people on here defending them RAWK-style and trying to convince themselves that they've 'decided' to only buy the 'right' players.

That includes their lackeys btw who have spunked money up the wall (notably this summer) like a child who's been given their parents' credit card number.
 
Those feckers better sell now and leave the January transfer window to the new owners.

Fecking cheapskates of the worst kind. Hope they will be found guilty of some major fraudulent scheme that will get them in jail and force the rest of that family to live on welfare for the rest of their lives.

They aren't selling time for the January transfer window, that was never happening, just hope that the lack of a willingness to spend is that they are quite far down the line with the sale, and any new owner doesn't want them to do anymore major business before they come in, the other alternative of them still been in the very early stages of things and us actually been skint is maybe more likely though.

We could need your anger for if the Glazers annouce, that after an extensive search no buyer was willing to meet their valuation, and no investor is willing to invest into the club on the Glazers terms, so it's business as usual, and don't start protesting again because at least we tried.
 
I personally think there are not many people out there can actually afford to buy us at the 5-6billion price quoted. We may be profitable year on year but it is not an attractive ROI for billions of investment. That rules out people looking to buy football club as an investment.

We are looking at small handful of people or groups and unfortunately not one of them seems to be doing this for purely altruistic reason. For this reason, I don't think Sir Jim Ratcliffe can afford us. Let's say he is worth 9-10billion, fully liquid, he need to spend almost 80% of his total wealth on a football club and not expecting a ROI in his lifetime.
 
Our rivals are hoovering up players while these greedy leeches penny pinch from something they have put nothing into in the first place.

This is the equivalent of someone stealing a whole load of art, or an iconic music venue, or some other heritage and having no interest in its condition or appeal, but instead how much they can get for it. It should be unlawful. Even worse that those in power- the UK government and PL - allowed it and continue to allow it to happen to a Northern club whilst simultaneously protecting a posh London club in the same timescale….turning a blind eye to their financial doping then protecting them with an anti Glazer clause.
 
We are skint, are not we? The leeches have run out of blood to suck, and the club is in a dire situation financially. All this whilst having an outdated training ground, decaying stadium and ever-increasing debt. What a way to treat a golden goose.
 
We are skint, are not we? The leeches have run out of blood to suck, and the club is in a dire situation financially. All this whilst having an outdated training ground, decaying stadium and ever-increasing debt. What a way to treat a golden goose.

Yet they still ask premium money for their asset.
 
Aramco. They have more money than god and have been splashing it around (in sports) only recently.

Aramco is owned by KSA and a part of that is located in their PIF's portfolio. PIF owns as we know, Newcastle by proxy. Any move Aramco make of that size will be sanctioned by MBS himself.
 
We are skint, are not we? The leeches have run out of blood to suck, and the club is in a dire situation financially. All this whilst having an outdated training ground, decaying stadium and ever-increasing debt. What a way to treat a golden goose.

Not completely skint, but they won't spend any money while a sale is pending anyway.

It's certainly true that United cannot afford to fund big capital expenditure projects like a new stadium or refurbished Carrington, whilst also paying for new players AND servicing the Glazers' acquisition debt. Something has to give, which is why the Glazers are seeking outside investment or a full sale.
 
Not completely skint, but they won't spend any money while a sale is pending anyway.

It's certainly true that United cannot afford to fund big capital expenditure projects like a new stadium or refurbished Carrington, whilst also paying for new players AND servicing the Glazers' acquisition debt. Something has to give, which is why the Glazers are seeking outside investment or a full sale.
It is not like they are investing in the infrastructure or servicing the debt in a way that would allow buying top players. They are doing none of it. The facilities are outdated, the debt is increasing, the trophies have dried up while the squad is still far from a title-challenging one. What a disaster this bloody family have been.
 
I personally think there are not many people out there can actually afford to buy us at the 5-6billion price quoted. We may be profitable year on year but it is not an attractive ROI for billions of investment. That rules out people looking to buy football club as an investment.

We are looking at small handful of people or groups and unfortunately not one of them seems to be doing this for purely altruistic reason. For this reason, I don't think Sir Jim Ratcliffe can afford us. Let's say he is worth 9-10billion, fully liquid, he need to spend almost 80% of his total wealth on a football club and not expecting a ROI in his lifetime.

I personally think there are not many people out there can actually afford to buy us at the 5-6billion price quoted. We may be profitable year on year but it is not an attractive ROI for billions of investment. That rules out people looking to buy football club as an investment.

We are looking at small handful of people or groups and unfortunately not one of them seems to be doing this for purely altruistic reason. For this reason, I don't think Sir Jim Ratcliffe can afford us. Let's say he is worth 9-10billion, fully liquid, he need to spend almost 80% of his total wealth on a football club and not expecting a ROI in his lifetime.
I don't think he'd be liquidating other assets to fund it, I'm assuming he'll head a consortium and use financial leverage to acquire. Plus ca change etc
 
Imo, what's probably gonna happen is they sell 25% of the club within the next 6 months, with a view to maybe selling the rest in 2/3 years.

United, as a stands, is not a good investment in the current economic climate. Even a state backed type deal (which I'd oppose) would create problems at their end. Very few (if any) people are willing to invest 3.5-4.5 billion at the moment.
 
Cause for concern with The Athletics line today?

Saying sources close to the club felt that the Glazers were willing to let United spend if they felt they wouldn’t be around to pick up the tab (but are now not allowing spending, indicating that they expect to be around)
 
Cause for concern with The Athletics line today?

Saying sources close to the club felt that the Glazers were willing to let United spend if they felt they wouldn’t be around to pick up the tab (but are now not allowing spending, indicating that they expect to be around)

A partial sale has always been a possibility (and is probably the preferred option for at least two of the Glazers). In this case though, The Athletic are probably reading a little too much in to it - one would not expect the Glazers to sanction a large transfer spend if they expected a full sale, either, so the fact that we're only looking for loan deals could be viewed either way.
 
Cause for concern with The Athletics line today?

Saying sources close to the club felt that the Glazers were willing to let United spend if they felt they wouldn’t be around to pick up the tab (but are now not allowing spending, indicating that they expect to be around)

It's been fifteen years of every 'sources close to club' story being totally off the mark when discussing money we do or don't intend to spend.

There's traction with the negative spins, understandably but for all the legitimate criticism, the Glazers give the press feck all. And "sources close to the club",
not even sources inside the club or the classic 'sources close the Glazer family circle' indicate they spoke to fecking Lou Macari or someone

Always surprised by grifters who after all these years still pretend to have the inside scoop on that how that family operates. Any story on this line for 15 years has been total guesswork
 
Cause for concern with The Athletics line today?

Saying sources close to the club felt that the Glazers were willing to let United spend if they felt they wouldn’t be around to pick up the tab (but are now not allowing spending, indicating that they expect to be around)

I wouldn't be too worried. We definitely over spent in the summer. And now they're actively seeking a sale. We're also low on cash.

It just makes perfect sense to not spend in January from their perspective. If they think the sale is done in Q1 they couldn't give a feck if we qualify for UCL or not.
 
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