But the minority shareholders put their money in to buy the shares in the first place. Sadly the glazers stashed that money in their own pockets not the clubs, but effectively the money has come in already.
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Club Sale | It’s done!
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That’s not how it works as it’s all dependant on the share holding agreement. My original point is I’d be interested to know what SJR would be proposing in the agreement. You certainly can’t make the shareholders on the stock market invest pro-rata.
Your second sentence answered your first one
No one has a clue what's going on.
I do.
Yeah probably, willing to share?
No.
You must be the only one ITK who won't post your exclusive info. Damn you are good.
It was a typo. Should have said “there would be no need to increase shares”. The point being you are incorrect. You don’t increase shares just because the majority shareholder is investing money into the business.
Edit: Read it again. The entire Al Thani, ie the only family that ever ruled Qatar with several hundred members, have a collective net worth of app. 335bn. I think this number is 450bn today, but this is in essence the Qatari Investment Fund. Ie the countries assets.
No way Jassim and the likes are making billions per year. Jassim’s dad — who has been the Prime Minister (but not empir, I think) has a total net worth of about 1-2bn depending if we look at Forbes or the Wiki page.
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The way it works is that journalists and content creators have a word count to fill to earn their living, so they take educated guesses, ie make stuff up. Caftards then comment with lots of 'if trues' and 'as reported', but over time these caveats get dropped and discussion continues as if it's about established facts. Caftards with a bias one way or the other concentrate particularly on the 'facts' they see as proving their own particular agenda. Personally I'm treating the whole thing as I treat transfer news, no source quoted is most likely made up, any phrase like 'my sources' or 'people close to' and it's definitely made up.
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Is his dad's Hamad bin Jassim does that mean our boy is Jassim bin Hamad bin Jassim?
EDIT - I think he is. I really hope he has a son named Hamad.
EDIT - I think he is. I really hope he has a son named Hamad.
Ugh what a horrendous prospect,come on Jassim get that bid for £6bn in. You will lose so much face in Qatar for losing to brexit Jim
Yeah otherwise his race is run
Right, but this isn't proposed as a single transaction with one man, Sheik Jassim. We here on the caf have no idea who his business partners are, but between all of them they clearly have somewhere around 5.5B to spend to acquire United, and it pretty clearly must be the case that if need be Jassim and his buds can come up with 6B.
Thanks for keeping a civil tone despite us ‘butting heads’ a bit, appreciated!
The assets of the club belong to MUFC plc, and unless the club is dissolved, no shareholder have any claim on it or right connected to those assets whatsoever.
I am not sure if this helps, but some basic starting points of company law:
MUFC is a public limited company that exist to make profits for its shareholders. All shareholders are as a rule equal, variation of voting power may exist but very little else in terms of differences.
Glazers are exactly like every other shareholder, but their shares has 10 votes, the other shares has 1 vote.
A shareholder only does two things, they vote at General Meetings and collect dividend. It generally criminal for a shareholder of a PLC to obtain any value whatsoever from the PLC if it is not in the form of dividend. There are of course exceptions when a shareholder also has another relationship with the company, like an employee, a director of the board, a customer, supplier or whatever.
At a General Meeting, a Board of Directors is elected, by a majority vote (or to be precise, relative majority is required, if there are three proposals it doesn’t take 51% (a majority), the ones who get the most vote win).
A shareholder can also be a director of the board. In this capacity, the director/share holder however has a fiduciary duty to inter alia act in the best way for all shareholders. Avram Glazer cannot vote at a board meeting for the club to take an action that is beneficial to him, but not other shareholders.
A company has as a rule nothing whatsoever to do with a shareholder selling or otherwise disposing his/her shares.
So the Glazers can privately sell their shares to whomever they want — without it concerning the MUFC plc.
But what about a merger you will say? A concept that exist is a so called Statutory Merger. In practice, it is the law maker who have thought “sometimes it’s good when two company join forces and become one, we should create a chapter in the Companies Act that help mergers to take place by streamlined simplified procedures”. You can in practice merge two companies without using these provisions, but if anyone want to use them, it can be done and they simplify things.
For a Statutory Merger to take place, it requires (a) that the BoDs of both companies enter into a Merger Agreement and (b) that the shareholders of both companies approve the merger. So then you might say, wait, a merger is clearly best for — all — shareholders, how can the BoD turn down a merger proposal? It is best for all shareholders, but if a majority owner (the Glazers) tell the board that sorry, in step (b) we won’t vote in favor of your merger — it’s not best for the company if the BoD to approve the merger, just leads to an unnecessary general meeting since it won’t get shareholder approval. And a shareholder can vote at a general meeting in (almost) any way if wants, it’s only a director of the board that — when acting on the board — has a fiduciary duty.
Yeah, and I am not saying that he don’t have the money.
All that I think is very likely is that he hasn’t offered to pay enough to convince the Glazers to sell it to him. Why? A few alternatives exist, it’s anyone’s guess.
Fair play to all your detailed posts mate, but wow where do you get the energy to type so much!
Likelihood of this becoming clearer by end of this month?
The glazers are pathetic! Still no announcement!
62.8%
Correct, Jassim is Jassim's grandson
Jassim and Hamad seem to be the most common first names in the family
Arabs usually name their first bron with the name of their parents, the amount of posts I've seen on Arabs names in this thread has been shocking tbh, it's the same with Asian names, it's extremely annoying and disrespectful of other cultures but thats the caf.
3:35 on Jassim: "They still can't seem to work out his background. He seems to have come from nowhere...."
If SJR invests in the club after holding 51% he will do so by issuing himself equity or by giving the club a loan(like abramovic did with chelsea). In case he issues fresh equity then the existing shareholders will have their stake in the club diluted. This is the sole reason why i am convinced that the glazers will not consent to being minority shareholders as their stake will get diluted with every equity infusion in the club. A full sale or a minority stake sale is the only thing which will make financial sense to the glazers in my opinion.
Is there any chance of this lingering into the start of next season?
Surely not right?
Surely not right?
He was born aged 35. We don't know SJR's background either. We know what's written on Wikipedia.
This is Qatar's fourth bid.
As I said, though United's value may decrease, the Glazers will be okay.
It's alleged he was born in Failsworth, but it's more likely he was created in a laboratory by robotic Velociraptors.
Just what it is they want with United is anybody's guess.
Still spouting this?
@lex talionis
Google is only as good as the data it can capture and your ability to interpret the output.
Jassim is a distant relative to the royal family. To put it in perspective, the connect /family split through birth, 56 children, from around the 1850s. Even if you apply the UK normal 2 kids per family for each generation, which probably would be low for the Al Thani house (Jassims father having 15 children) calling Jassim part of the ruling royal family is a stretch. As for the money, where this £275b has come from and whether it's been evidenced i have no idea, although I have heard that figure applied to HBJ not the royal family.. Do you have a reliable source?
The 1.6b? (Forbes $1.1b) of HBJ is largely from Forbes, which at best, fits known assets, which doesn't fit HBJs profile as an apparent prolific investor. Reported owner of:
3% of deutsche bank 650m euro
most expensive house in London minimum $275m. after referb $465m
Yacht $300m
Picasso $179m
Messier1994 doesn't respond when his numbers are poked.
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Sir Daddy is coming to save us
Ratcliffe? Doubt it.
Think Qatar are waiting out Ratcliffe's bid to see how he can finagle it with the siblings. They'll just increase it if they absolutely have to.
If, for whatever reason, they pull out or are rejected, they'll blame 'Glazerite intransigence' to cover the 'embarrassment' of their failure. They've got plenty of supporters at our club willing to swallow the line.
I don't know if you meant Ratcliffe.
Still think the Ferengi bid of eight billion strips of latinum is the best bet, much better than Megatron's fifty energon cubes, NFL games on Cybertron and Soundwave as DoF.
To be clear yes I meant SJR but I’ve always wanted SJ to win and takeover.
Many are ignoring the fact that SJR could add another 200/300m to his bid and it makes life very very difficult for SJ as it seems he isn’t convinced about coming in with an offer they can’t refuse.
The tactic by SJ has been bizarre to say the least , bid late and increase the offer incrementally but still come in under the SJR bid.
There is little incentive for the Glazers to accept the SJ bid and I believe that SJR and the Glazers are so far down the road that backing out from either party would be more difficult than concluding a deal.
I spoke earlier on that lawyer I met from INEOS who mentioned it’s pretty much theirs and I’ve seen nothing so far to suggest otherwise. He was bullish and confident and said it had been worked on for a long time before any announcements so I think the whole process has been a formality but an open situation where if someone came in with an offer they couldn’t refuse they’d accept it, such an offer hasn’t arrived nor will it.
Matter of time before INEOS owns us in my opinion.
Fair enough.
When I spoke to Quark on DS9 whilst travelling to the Alpha Quadrant last Thursday, he told me it was his to lose.
I pressed him and he admitted getting the required funds was contingent upon his selling a runabout to the Cardassians, in exchange for powerful
weapons he was to exchange with some Kling-On cartel. All very hush-hush.
Not heard a peep from Megatron, whose decision to send a delegation of Starscream, Shockwave and Devastator to negotiate seems to have backfired spectacularly.
Joel was 'deeply concerned' according to 'sources' about Starscream's supercilious nature whereas Avram opined outer space was no place for an NFL match.
It's not over yet and a big day ahead, no doubt.
There are other ways to invest than new issue of shares, in which case your ownership gets diluted if you don't invest as well. You can make a shareholder contribution for instance. This does not require all owners to contribute. Owners, such as the Glazers, can also protect themselves from dilution through contracts at the point of selling.
It's just over nine weeks until the season starts so its very unlikely that a takeover will be completed before then now. I'd say September/October is most likely.
I am perfectly happy to be owned by an AI, just get it done
That’s rarely true, normally if there is a take over there is a big freeze on asset requirements in pretty much any company as the potential incoming bosses don’t want the out going owners acquiring assets they don’t approve of.
for my money if we are been active in the transfer market (and there only rumours) it’s a massive indicator that the glazers plan still to be involved at least next season
whats your timeline based on?
This is without mentioning the Mirqab group assets, for example they acquired british Heritage oil company for 1.6B in 2014 which is worth 5.5b at the moment. He also share ownership of another company with his brother and own multiple assists in Germany and the rest of Europe in the form of properties. It is almost impossible to know how much exactly he is worth.
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