The secret bidders were last seen riding unicorns on their way to Narnia.
Club Sale | It’s done!
- Thread starter JB08
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The secret bidders were last seen riding unicorns on their way to Narnia.
@Woziak I understand all the stuff you're explaining in your last post. But I have all this time been asking about the bolded phrase above i.e. "he only owns 33% of the club.". I think its a typo but if there's something behind this then maybe some source or some thinking behind it?
I'm just asking cause you seem to know what you're talking about from the financial pov, and as you're seen in here sorta financial expert, I'm sure that number will be taken as "reported" in a few pages and then as a fact after like 30-40 pages (I've seen that happen in this thread a few times). You should probably correct it if it is a typo or provide how you came to that 33% number.
That's the trouble they aren't going to cave,like I said Jassim has to accept the price or walk away and bring embarrassment to his nation for losing to a brit business man
They are.
WHEN
Do you think Raine will bother announcing anyone other than the winners? I don’t even think I trust either Ratcliffe or Jassim to be honest!
I guess we’ll see if the winner (if there is one and the Glazers don’t stay) will make good and actually take the club forward.
Who knows but the financials of the club are dire. They don't have a choice. They can delay but they need to secure massive investment or a sale.
Heil Hydra.
If you thought they couldn't piss you off more... they ruin our transfer window and potentially our next season's plans
Have been pissing me off for last 18 years
They hold the asset both parties want and they know they're good for top dollar. This is the riling dictatorship of an oil rich state and Britain's 2nd most richest person we are talking here, not to mention, various hedge funds.
If it all goes belly-up for the Glazers, they'll just run the club to its last buck, or sell it for scrap. Which will hurt the Glazers , just not fatally. They have plenty of other assets, after all.
As of now, Qatar are waiting out Ratcliffe as it's contingent on the siblings. If there's an in, Qatar can rely on their latest bid. If not, well, they can bid more or back out and claim 'Glazer intransigence' to cover the 'embarrassment'.
The Glazers have plenty of options and are loaded up to the hilt, no matter how this plays. The club is on sale because of the attendant debt. No other reason.
They'll come out of this okay.
These people are professional business people, but to a large extent, the country is run as a clan. Sheik Jassim's ("SJ") dad -- Sheik Hamad bin Jassim bin Jaber ("HBJ") -- has 15 children with his two wifes. HBJ is the former PM of Qatar. HBJ's grandfather, was the brother of the funding father of Qatar. The founding father himself had 56 kids and most of the emirs has huge families even today. It is said that the "royal family" of Qatar currently has 200 male individuals in official positions, SJ probably count among them. The 200 number seem low to me, but it’s hard to find info. It must be underlined that SJ in any event have held very prominent positions within Qatar, so he has a high stature for sure.
HBJ's personell wealth is estimated to be 1.1bn (Forbes). HBJ haven't handed over 6-7bn to his son SJ, nor have SJ made that type of money in different positions for the Qatar Islamic Bank (QIB). The Emir of Qatar is said to have a personal wealth of 2bn.
So how is an investment like this done? By all accounts, important business decisions is still handled in the old fashion "clan way'. This is an important business decision for Qatar, it totals 1-2 percent of the Royal Family's total wealth, of which a great deal is tied up in real estate and infrastructure. So as a non-typical investment -- its even larger. So what does the clan way mean? Formally, you ask for permission, ultimately given by the Empir. In practice, you prepare a business plan, the business plan is given to competent advisors, its reviewed, and advise is whispered in the ear of the Emir or persons appointed to speak on his behalf. As with any business plan, its not black or white. A lot comes down to personell influence and trust. So where is the money coming from? Will QI. -- with its 450bn portfolio -- transfer the funds to 9-2? This is an important aspect. If you get the go-ahead from the clan -- any and all members of the clan can be expected to ship in if you are a part of the family/clan and if so, you do what you are told.
There are numerous sources confirming this. When its investigated if some entity is separated from the state, the conclusion is that even if there are legal barriers, in practice you cannot talk about separation in that sense. The country, the royal family and its individual members are really one thing.
HBJ has spoken about the takeover, he said: "some of my sons like this, they always discuss it with me. They’re pushing hard. This isn’t my speciality. Let me put it like this: I am an investor. If it will one day be a good investment, I will think about it. I will not look at it as something you do just as an advertisement.”
So we know that 9-2's bid for the club pays less money to the Glazers than Ineos bid does. Why is that? Why don't they up their bid? I would say that it must be one of the following reasons:
(a) SJ don't think the club is worth more than he has bid.
(b) SJ is willing to bid higher, but is waiting as a negotiation tactic.
(c) SJ has been given a green light to make a bid, but not an unlimited budget.
I don’t buy “(b)”, it’s too late and he isn’t even close. Talk about Ineos’ — an 80bn turnover company, with the previous interest in Chelsea, it’s investments in F1 — bid isn’t legit and that 9-2 doesn’t want to bid against itself is of course nonsense. It would have been one thing if it was 9-2 and Zilliacus, but come on, Ineos is of course a credible bidder.
So you have (a) or (c). But if it was (a) — why hasn’t the Glazers appointed Ineos the preferred bidder?
I am just guessing, but I would bet at it being (c) and that SJ has been working to increase his budget. But that is just speculation.
Not worth 6 billion they dont.
These are one-time offers. They won't get them again. If they don't sell the value decreases and the club probably goes bankrupt in a few years without a lot of investment.
The new rumour which I can not deny or confirm because it makes no senses is that he would buy 33-36% controlling B shares from all 6 Glazers leaving them with the remaining 36-34% B voting shares to cash out in the future meaning all 6 siblings would stay, again there has been no detail on this just an article in the times explaining that all 6 Glazers might stay and yes it’s a very real scenario but more likely SJR has controlling 35-36% majority he would still need two of the Glazers to agree with him to make a decision, if this happens the share price will plummet and we may see a hostile takeover from SJR or SJ. I keep saying the SJR 50.01%, 35/36% is the absolute worst case scenario for the club apart from the 6 Glazers all staying.
What fans need to understand is the club is haemorrhaging cash and do to are Buccaneers. The Glazers as a family owe over $1.4bn on both clubs and Banks will start to reel in existing debt to mitigate their risks to financial closure like Credit Suisse Recently.
I agree with this. I think given the protracted nature of this process the transfer window is entirely independent and is just the club and staff doing their best this summer.
Exactly I don’t think the fans really know the true extent of the seriousness of the current debt position for the club, they have to sell!
They definitely don't mate. We are borderline insolvent. The club has been putting day-to-day expenses on the credit card.
So it’s not a state bid but that doesn't mean the state won't get involved in future?
Which means sell or fold if they fold, they will get a fraction of what’s offered now, a fraction. So they have to sell, they don’t have to sell to SJ they can sell to SJR quite easily as he’s apparently going to let them have the best of both worlds!
Trap being set !
It's essentially who blinks first at the moment in my opinion.
I just had Alice Talks Football turn up in my Youtube recs. You people are doing terrible things that what the algorithms think of me.
Everyone here has the patience of gnat...
The season is a few days ended. This is a massive deal with many moving parts. One in which you were seeing multiple rounds bids during the season, which is somewhat unique. Chill...
Nothing is going to change the bottom line. The Glazers have to sell. If you look at the finances the club cannot move forward without...essentially...a full sale. Anything else would be a financial disaster for the Glazers, and they are not stupid (just horrible people). I have posted about why many times.
I work in PE, bids and closings are massive undertakings that involve an incredible amount of challenges that will crop up just when you think you've settled everything. Buying a club like United is extremely complex.
It will happen...many here have to stop feeling like this is somehow a process in which the days matter. They don't, all that matters is the process and the need for this to happen. Could it impact our buying process, sure. But the new owners will obviously try to mitigate this issue as much as possible, making it a slight concern IMHO.
The season is a few days ended. This is a massive deal with many moving parts. One in which you were seeing multiple rounds bids during the season, which is somewhat unique. Chill...
Nothing is going to change the bottom line. The Glazers have to sell. If you look at the finances the club cannot move forward without...essentially...a full sale. Anything else would be a financial disaster for the Glazers, and they are not stupid (just horrible people). I have posted about why many times.
I work in PE, bids and closings are massive undertakings that involve an incredible amount of challenges that will crop up just when you think you've settled everything. Buying a club like United is extremely complex.
It will happen...many here have to stop feeling like this is somehow a process in which the days matter. They don't, all that matters is the process and the need for this to happen. Could it impact our buying process, sure. But the new owners will obviously try to mitigate this issue as much as possible, making it a slight concern IMHO.
This is really interesting, thanks for sharing. Interesting that they run the Buccs as poorly as they do United. Hopefully the banks come for them when they sell knowing they are good for the dollar!
This reads a bit like you are saying that nobody knows anything except you, let me know if I misunderstand something, but when you see claims like that on an Internet forum, you won’t attribute much credibility to it…
BTW, since the Cayman Islands are majority friendly — if Ineos became the new majority owner — why the heck would they move it from the Caymans?
I think you were in a bit of a hurry writing that. The Cayman Islands are not “Glazer friendly”, it is majority owner friendly.It is this part that is the give-away, it is just jIbberish:
You need to put more effort into it than this. It’s Ineos making the bid. SJR only has one asset, it’s Ineos. Is SJR selling Ineos to get money, to give to Ineos, so Ineos can afford buying the club? Good one!
Do you have a strong preference one way or the other? Cause I feel it's a lot easier to be chill if you think either bidder is good actually than for someone like myself who is gonna have hugely different reactions to any concrete news, depending on which direction it's taking us. It's really not fun waiting indefinitely to find out if I still have a football team I'm moderately comfortable supporting.
Just feels like we have been fobbed off by many journos since it was first suggested about a sale last November
I don't trust Ratcliffe IF he actually is considering keeping Joel & Avram let alone the horrific prospect of all 6 staying on
As those two seem to more involved in our mess than anybody else. Maybe he should bin them and keep the other four.
I do not really blame them. Most people and most supporters do not work in the industry and had their expectations set by absolute cretins in the press and on social media saying it will be done by Easter. On top of that, I personally have never seen anywhere near this much coverage of a sale process between the announcement of investment being sought and an actual agreement being announced. It is not like this is a hostile takeover approach. The press (and frequent use of them as a Raine mouthpiece) in this saga has come across as very unprofessional to me, but I guess the normal standards go out the window when it's a deal for a professional sports team, rather than something like a mining or tech company.
<3 Kevin <3
You are very determined regarding Kevin.
It's been the best part of a year now, with no end in sight, and the latest reports are saying that nothing is close to happening... "Patience of a gnat"
They could have done this long ago if they weren't so greedy
Additionally, at least for the first few months there were timescales given and next steps, it seemed a genuine process. Now there's nothing. "Final" bids were made nearly 6 weeks ago
Adding:
HBJs valuation by Forbes is questionable: the guys has a 300/400m yacht, the most expensive property in central London and a big stake in Deutsche Bank. All of which probably adds to the 1.1b. For a guy renowned for investing, that doesn't look like a broad investment portfolio.
As for the family, the 1990s it was estimated there were 20,000 in the Al Thani house. SJ it probably well outside the 200 closest males. All of which undermines your arguments.
INEOS does not turn over 80b
I really am.
Precisely that's why there is frustration growing
It's nearly crunch time now though
Bit random but my Mrs and I started trying for a baby post the Glazers selling news (unrelated), and my baby looks on course to be born before the takeover is complete 
As it also was 3 months ago...
I get the hope thing, but let's be realistic. It's the Glazers. I'm sure we go into July no closer than we are now and I wouldn't even be surprised if they drag it out until the end of 2023
Bit random but my Mrs and I started trying for a baby post the Glazers selling news (unrelated), and my baby looks on course to be born before the takeover is complete
I was thinking that you really took that news well, before the bracketed part- Status