Club Sale | It’s done!

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AlPistacho said:
You are aware anti glazer protests were talking place when we were in the CL final? It’s a huge insult to fans and a lie to say the anti glazer protests only started after the league titles stopped coming.
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No there wasn't. Aside from the existence of FC United, there were no major protests (outside of a few reserve/youth games) for several years after the initial carnage. As a support, you'd have to say we came across as fairly indifferent to their ownership once those initial protests had subsided and the team started winning again from 06/07.

There was the green and gold protests that started in 2010 and became big (most notably against Milan) but nothing in any of the three finals.

There was the fairly large protest v Spurs around October/November 2010 and then largely nothing (again, aside from the existence of FCUM) until the later stages of the 2015/2016 season.
 
cyberman said:
He doesn’t seem right in the head. Here he is telling us he just phones up Raine group and has a chat about the takeover
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We're leaving the playing season for speculation season. Hooking even 1% of our fans is worth a lot of money. Ask all the newspapers.
 
stw2022 said:
Its revisionist to claim the protests were anywhere near the level they later became when we were winning. They simply weren't. Success quietened them and it only got going again due to the uproar over the refinancing in around 2010 which is when the green and gold thing first became noticeable as a protest movement.
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The OP asked where were the protests in 2010. So clearly they did exist. Of course when a team in winning things won’t be as loud that’s just logical and positive as no one wants to distract from the teams achievements. But to say fans didn’t know the glazers were bad for United is wrong.
 
Why the feck are some randoms like this guy getting any attention here :lol:
 
Plant0x84 said:
I love the way his calls get short and shorter down to ‘Mr Ravitch does want to speak with you, he’s far too busy. Stop calling, or we’ll report you to the police’ :lol:
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He wouldn't even get to speak to the person who gets to speak to the person who speaks to Ravitch.

I could of half believed it until I read that :lol:
 
Can they just feck off already. We need to move on and hate the next owners for the entire pre-season.
 
George The Best said:
Think he’s supposedly talking about the class B shares, not the listed A ones. But who knows as he’s off his rocker.
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More confused now. Why would they be bothered about class B which they don't have any control ? Expected sale can only be done for class A, right?
 
bond19821982 said:
More confused now. Why would they be bothered about class B which they don't have any control ? Expected sale can only be done for class A, right?
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Class B is the one’s the Glazer’s own, which come with all the voting rights. Class A shares are the one’s listed on NYSE, which you can buy.
 
putzmcgee123 said:
@Messier1994 I think we are in agreement on several points actually and perhaps there is just mutual misunderstanding. The market is not convinced there is a deal for a full takeover and I certainly do not believe there is a deal in place. This is to be expected. Not sure why they would be convinced. The spikes we saw in the prior months came on speculation of a Qatari bid blowing everyone else away and a deal being done by Easter, but that has not come to fruition.

My position continues to be that the Man Utd price action is speculative. Very little is truly known by the public. I think where there is a misunderstanding is that I am saying the swings in the share price are not based in the reality of the takeover outcome probability. It's entirely speculative based on the reporting we get from football journalists who don't know their rear end from a hole in the ground when it comes to this topic.

I am not in disagreement at all with the notion of the share price increasing with Qatari news and decreasing with any other outcome. That much is obvious. My belief is that this is not reflective of the "true" probabilities. I believe what we have seen play out in the media is simply Raine's response to tough negotiating by the Qataris who don't want to overpay.

In a best case scenario, a Class A shareholder reaps the benefits of a full takeover and their shares are bought at a premium. Worst case scenario...who knows. One inescapable fact remains that, under the current structure, there is very little incentive to being a Class A shareholder outside of a potential buyout in comparison to the common shares of your average publicly-listed target company. In my opinion, the downside is much, much higher than one would see with a "typical" plc.

A couple points I do have to contend and I'll leave it at that.

  • I have not seen any report suggesting INEOS has a bid in for £6B. All the reports I've read suggest in the range of £5-5.5B, hence my prediction. If you have a link, please share as that would be news to me.
  • Share price pre-Raine was more like $12-13.
  • Have to continue to disagree on the notion that ~40% of takeovers are leaked as evidenced by share price movements before a public announcement. Can only base it on my experience, but anecdotally, I have not seen that.
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Thanks, and I very much appreciate your input!
 
MancunianAngels said:
No there wasn't. Aside from the existence of FC United, there were no major protests (outside of a few reserve/youth games) for several years after the initial carnage. As a support, you'd have to say we came across as fairly indifferent to their ownership once those initial protests had subsided and the team started winning again from 06/07.

There was the green and gold protests that started in 2010 and became big (most notably against Milan) but nothing in any of the three finals.

There was the fairly large protest v Spurs around October/November 2010 and then largely nothing (again, aside from the existence of FCUM) until the later stages of the 2015/2016 season.
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Do you not realise that the existence of FCUM and associated boycott is the very reason there was not much protest for several years? Dont really want to rehash old arguments but as far as Im concerned, FCUM was a huge mistake that caused massive splits in our fanbase which the Glazers can only have been exstatic about. The whole idea that a mass boycott would lead to the Glazers leaving was, and always will be, completely flawed.

In any case, 2010 Green&Gold was the biggest protest ever (much bigger than anything in 2005) until the recent ESL protest and obviously we were doing very well back then (arguably it was slap bang in the middle of the most successful period the club has ever had) so to make out our fanbase only protest because we arent doing well is total nonsense.

You often come in here giving a version of events from back then that I dont agree with in the slightest.

Bringing this back to today, fans protested in 2010 because for the first time there seemed to be a serious alternative to the Glazers, they hoped the Red Knights group would takeover. Worth noting that The Athletic report that Sheikh Jassim (as a wealthy United fan) was approached to be part of the Red Knights group all the way back in 2010 so his interest seemingly goes back a long way.
Fans are protesting again now because they see a serious chance for change, for many years there was no viable alternative so although some have been shouting 'Glazers Out' for many years, it doesnt acheive much until a serious buyer shows up like now.
 
bond19821982 said:
Aah, so they will buy all class B shares and take United out of listing?
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Due to Cayman island law to delist the club, first the new owner has to take control of the club, the Glazers combined own 69% of the class B Voting shares which have a 10 times voting ratio to class A so even if 4 Glazers leave and 2 Glazers stay with there 33%, they would still give them control of all major club decisions because if the other 4 siblings sell without the permission of the whole family, it means the B shares result to A shares for the new buyer unless an agreement is made by all members of the family.

As soon as the new owners have purchased these shares plus those of Ed Woodwards 0.5% class B shares which is a total of a 113 million shares, the whole club has 163 million shares with 50 million being class A Shares of which the Glazers also own 4.3% of the remaining 30.5%.

The strong rumour is they will cost $37-40 to take control. Let’s assume for ease they agree $40 which is more than double the current listing at just under $19 with a market cap of $3.03bn.

This would mean that SJ or SJR would have bought the controlling shares for $4.52bn and therefore they valued the club at $6.6bn or £5.25bn. In SJ case because they want to buy the whole club and then delist it from the stock exchange, after this management buyout the shares will go up or down depending on how confident the Stock Exchange is about the new ownership. There are other factors like debt being paid and a payment made in lieu of future TV revenue Deals to the Glazers.

Again assuming It’s SJ just because we know he wants to buy 100% of the club, under cayman law he must make a reasonable bid within 30 days for the A class shares as well, but obviously not at the optimum high price paid for controlling B shares. Let’s say if SJ takes over the shares go up to the yearly high of $27, he may offer all existing share holders $30 so 50 million shares at $30 is another $1.5bn cost to take the club off the NYSE and a total cost of $6bn plus the debt plus other reconciliation agreed fees. This I believe is the new 5th bid which is really just a tweaking of the 4th bid, The debt must be settled to delist the club and some form of compensation will be paid for future contracts. I’m guessing that the whole takeover will cost $7.2-7.3bn which is about £5.75bn including the debt payment. The Glazers will probably end up with $4.5bn + 0.5bn future Tv and media revenue conciliatory payments and another $210m for selling all their A shares so $5.2bn, we’ll know more soon

SJR does not need to make a reconciliation payment for future TV revenue deals, he does not have to settle the £535m debt, he’s not obliged to do anything, not make an offer for any other shares and he could keep Joel and Avram for 4 years with his layered buyout because he is only looking to buy 50.01% or 69% and keep the club listed on NYSE.

They are completely different bids and TBF SJR is much more complicated.
 
Rood said:
Do you not realise that the existence of FCUM and associated boycott is the very reason there was not much protest for several years? Dont really want to rehash old arguments but as far as Im concerned, FCUM was a huge mistake that caused massive splits in our fanbase which the Glazers can only have been exstatic about. The whole idea that a mass boycott would lead to the Glazers leaving was, and always will be, completely flawed.

In any case, 2010 Green&Gold was the biggest protest ever (much bigger than anything in 2005) until the recent ESL protest and obviously we were doing very well back then (arguably it was slap bang in the middle of the most successful period the club has ever had) so to make out our fanbase only protest because we arent doing well is total nonsense.

You often come in here giving a version of events from back then that I dont agree with in the slightest.

Bringing this back to today, fans protested in 2010 because for the first time there seemed to be a serious alternative to the Glazers, they hoped the Red Knights group would takeover. Worth noting that The Athletic report that Sheikh Jassim (as a wealthy United fan) was approached to be part of the Red Knights group all the way back in 2010 so his interest seemingly goes back a long way.
Fans are protesting again now because they see a serious chance for change, for many years there was no viable alternative so although some have been shouting 'Glazers Out' for many years, it doesnt acheive much until a serious buyer shows up like now.
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Well said, that guy sounds like he lives in a parallel universe.
 
Rood said:
Do you not realise that the existence of FCUM and associated boycott is the very reason there was not much protest for several years? Dont really want to rehash old arguments but as far as Im concerned, FCUM was a huge mistake that caused massive splits in our fanbase which the Glazers can only have been exstatic about. The whole idea that a mass boycott would lead to the Glazers leaving was, and always will be, completely flawed.

In any case, 2010 Green&Gold was the biggest protest ever (much bigger than anything in 2005) until the recent ESL protest and obviously we were doing very well back then (arguably it was slap bang in the middle of the most successful period the club has ever had) so to make out our fanbase only protest because we arent doing well is total nonsense.

You often come in here giving a version of events from back then that I dont agree with in the slightest.

Bringing this back to today, fans protested in 2010 because for the first time there seemed to be a serious alternative to the Glazers, they hoped the Red Knights group would takeover. Worth noting that The Athletic report that Sheikh Jassim (as a wealthy United fan) was approached to be part of the Red Knights group all the way back in 2010 so his interest seemingly goes back a long way.
Fans are protesting again now because they see a serious chance for change, for many years there was no viable alternative so although some have been shouting 'Glazers Out' for many years, it doesnt acheive much until a serious buyer shows up like now.
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Did the Athletic say Jassim was approached, or Qatar was approached? In Jim O'Neill's interview on the UWS podcast, he said he and his people approached Qatar. He said they ended up buying PSG instead to be full owners, so that wouldn't be Jassim. Did the Athletic article expand further? I don't subscribe, but assumed it was based on Mitten's conversations with O'Neill.
 
Convinced that Jassim hasn't heard back from Raine Group on that 4th bid because he went over their heads to make it.I think some feel that's the end of the road for Jassim's chances because of the radio silence but if that was the case then top tier sources would be saying it.
 
At least the age of the twitter rumour sources has gone from 12 to 14. Finally growing up
 
Alonzo said:
“The moralists” Jesus wept. The people who let morals to inform their judgement, perish the thought.

Do you call the people on the other side “the human rights abuse apologists”? Doesn’t have as nice a ring I’ll give you that
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:lol: Spot on
 
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