Club Sale | It’s done!

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lsd said:
Do you think City fans care how Troyes AC or Palermo FC are doing?
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If INEOS can't even succeed in their first 2 ventures in football ownership, how do you expect United fans to be any confident about SJR?

All we know is that OGC Nice fans have a serious case for protesting at the moment, especially after roughly half of a decade of shit and broken promises.
 
lsd said:
Clearly Raine have worked out what most sane people have that the Qatar bid is extremely dodgy.

People have allowed themselves to be blinded into thinking of Qatar win we will be just like City and signing Mbappe and everyone else in the summer overtaking City in no time

The reality is however we know next to nothing about where this bid is coming from and how much or how little money they actually have.

We do know INEOs and Sir Jim have easily enough money to buy us and do what's needed to get is back and challenging again
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Yes, it had been suggested several times that there is doubt from the Raine side about the Qatari's funding. Which is why I cannot understand the theory that everything the Glazers have said and done so far has been for extracting more money from Qatar specifically. Sir Jim showing up in person for talks was also a big factor vs the Qatari delegation of no names.

I believe Ineos has already entered advanced talks which is what some might call the preferred bidder, so Qatar had to go directly to the Glazers with a final offer.
 
RedDevilQuebecois said:
If INEOS can't even succeed in their first 2 ventures in football ownership, how do you expect United fans to be any confident about SJR?

All we know is that OGC Nice fans have a serious case for protesting at the moment, especially after roughly half of a decade of shit and broken promises.
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Well Utd have managed to remain successful under the Glazers, SJ or SJR will be a massive improvement as long as they give the club room to breathe and support itself, let alone if they actually choose to invest, and it only makes sense to invest if they intend to grow the club, ultimately the only thing I am interested in is not the Glazers beyond that it is all gravy
 
Zed 101 said:
Well Utd have managed to remain successful under the Glazers, SJ or SJR will be a massive improvement as long as they give the club room to breathe and support itself, let alone if they actually choose to invest, and it only makes sense to invest if they intend to grow the club, ultimately the only thing I am interested in is not the Glazers beyond that it is all gravy
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What makes you think that someone who had mismanaged Lausanne and Nice will successfully manage a club that is bigger and is competing in a much tougher league?
 
Zed 101 said:
Well Utd have managed to remain successful under the Glazers, SJ or SJR will be a massive improvement as long as they give the club room to breathe and support itself, let alone if they actually choose to invest, and it only makes sense to invest if they intend to grow the club, ultimately the only thing I am interested in is not the Glazers beyond that it is all gravy
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In what way we were successful. After SAF left we never finished above Manchester City.
 
Raoul said:
He may be referring to the 8 preceding years to Fergie's retirement when we won all those trophies and made 3 CL finals.
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But that wasn't down to the Glazers, that was doing to having an outstanding manager who was top of his class in everything.
Post Sir Alex, we're far from successful, but hey, at least we've avoided relegation?
 
Brownie85 said:
But that wasn't down to the Glazers, that was doing to having an outstanding manager who was top of his class in everything.
Post Sir Alex, we're far from successful, but hey, at least we've avoided relegation?
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Yeah but that logic works both ways, as in you could just as easily say the Glazers would've been comparably successful had Woordward hired the right guys post Fergie.
 
Raoul said:
Yeah but that logic works both ways, as in you could just as easily say the Glazers would've been comparably successful had Woordward hired the right guys post Fergie.
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Never thought of it that way but you're absolutely correct. The failure post Fergie is definitely down to both the Glazers and Woodward.
I just hope whoever we get in they set up a management and leadership heirarchy that actually knows that they're doing"
 
Zed 101 said:
Well Utd have managed to remain successful under the Glazers, SJ or SJR will be a massive improvement as long as they give the club room to breathe and support itself, let alone if they actually choose to invest, and it only makes sense to invest if they intend to grow the club, ultimately the only thing I am interested in is not the Glazers beyond that it is all gravy
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How do you come to that conclusion? Start watching in 2014? United's benchmark for success is much higher than a couple league cups and a Europa league.
 
Brownie85 said:
Never thought of it that way but you're absolutely correct. The failure post Fergie is definitely down to both the Glazers and Woodward.
I just hope whoever we get in they set up a management and leadership heirarchy that actually knows that they're doing"
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The Glazers were obviously inept (being kind here), but the common strain in our decade of mediocrity was Woodward imo. He had no meaningful football experience coming in and was basically an investment banker who managed to ingratiate himself Joel and Avram, to where they put him in charge of Manchester Untied. Its no coincidence that our mediocrity began immediately following his arrival (the moment Fergie and Gill departed) and his departure seems to have gotten us back on track. Obviously some of that is the Glazers fault and some can even be apportioned to Fergie for bequeathing the United job to Moyes.
 
Rood said:
Well there would be a hit to commercial revenue if we failed to qualify for CL this year since Adidas (and probably other sponsors too) have a 2 year drop-down clause

That's on top of any potential TV and prize money loss
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Any potential loses is still a drop in the ocean compared to a deal to buy the club. If we don't qualify for CL we lose £20m from Adidas spread out until our contract ends with them. That would be the main hit the club would take but as the players wages are dependent on CL qualification it would offset that loss.


Even if we were to win it next season the maximum we could earn if last years winners are anything to go by would be £75m which wouldn't buy you an Antony or a Sancho in todays money. Hardly something to hold back a £6b deal.

Anyones guess though with these feckers.
 
Raoul said:
The Glazers were obviously inept (being kind here), but the common strain in our decade of mediocrity was Woodward imo. He had no meaningful football experience coming in and was basically an investment banker who managed to ingratiate himself Joel and Avram, to where they put him in charge of Manchester Untied. Its no coincidence that our mediocrity began immediately following his arrival (the moment Fergie and Gill departed) and his departure seems to have gotten us back on track. Obviously some of that is the Glazers fault and some can even be apportioned to Fergie for bequeathing the United job to Moyes.
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Fergie papered over the cracks for years and the Glazers were just exposed when he left. Have we spent the 80 mil from Ronaldo yet? We sell the best player in the world for a record and the money just disappeared. We went years with just signing cheap transfers while keeping players like Anderson, Nani, Cleverly who weren't good enough. Did we compete for Pep or Klopp when Fergie retired, no, we got the cheap guy from Everton, with the perfect cover of Fergie wanting him.

And even if you do put all the blame on Woodard, who hired Woodward, who kept him in charge when he clearly didn't know how to do his job?
 
devilish said:
What makes you think that someone who had mismanaged Lausanne and Nice will successfully manage a club that is bigger and is competing in a much tougher league?
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What makes you think someone who has never managed a club and has never had any experience/learning club management would do a better job? They promised you more shiny new things?
 
Strootman's Finger said:
Fergie papered over the cracks for years and the Glazers were just exposed when he left. Have we spent the 80 mil from Ronaldo yet? We sell the best player in the world for a record and the money just disappeared. We went years with just signing cheap transfers while keeping players like Anderson, Nani, Cleverly who weren't good enough. Did we compete for Pep or Klopp when Fergie retired, no, we got the cheap guy from Everton, with the perfect cover of Fergie wanting him.

And even if you do put all the blame on Woodard, who hired Woodward, who kept him in charge when he clearly didn't know how to do his job?
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I'd say 5 league titles in 8 years, plus a CL title and 3 CL finals is a bit more than papering over the cracks. It just shows that a great manager can overcome a lot of adversity to become successful. Going from Fergie/Gill to Woodward/Moyes and the knock on effects related to hiring Moyes, and a slew of panic signings was down to Woodward's ineptness. City on the other hand, hired well in terms of their executive staff, which led to the subsequent conditions of where they find themselves now.
 
Raoul said:
I'd say 5 league titles in 8 years, plus a CL title and 3 CL finals is a bit more than papering over the cracks. It just shows that a great manager can overcome a lot of adversity to become successful. Going from Fergie/Gill to Woodward/Moyes and the knock on effects related to hiring Moyes, and a slew of panic signings was down to Woodward's ineptness. City on the other hand, hired well in terms of their executive staff, which led to the subsequent conditions of where they find themselves now.
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Who hired and kept Woodward employed?
 
Strootman's Finger said:
Who hired and kept Woodward employed?
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Who kept Fergie and Gill employed at the club from 2005-13 ? No one is arguing the Glazers are without blame here. I'm talking more from a purely football perspective - it was Woodward who was primarily responsible for football operations and the differences between him and Gill are pretty stark.
 
whitbyviking said:
What makes you think someone who has never managed a club and has never had any experience/learning club management would do a better job? They promised you more shiny new things?
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I'd rather have an unknown with deep pockets rather then a proven clown who thinks that its a good idea to involve someone in cycling into football and who keeps messing up again and again. I mean it takes a whole level of stupidity to think that you can compete with PSG by adding the likes of Barkley, Ramsey, Pepe and Schmeichel to an already average lot.
 
Was there any word on when we should expect to hear what happens next following the most recent update (the new Qatar bid) ?

My feeling is that we'll be waiting until after the FA Cup final?
 
LawCharltonBest said:
Was there any word on when we should expect to hear what happens next following the most recent update (the new Qatar bid) ?

My feeling is that we'll be waiting until after the FA Cup final?
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Things seem to have gone to an eerie radio silence, which may the calm before the storm prior to some sort of announcement (or not).
 
Raoul said:
Who kept Fergie and Gill employed at the club from 2005-13 ? No one is arguing the Glazers are without blame here. I'm talking more from a purely football perspective - it was Woodward who was primarily responsible for football operations and the differences between him and Gill are pretty stark.
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Well that’s the point. 2005-2013 they were lucky a good footballing system was in place so their complete incompetence/ negligence of the club went unnoticed. They then brought someone in to replace and continued the negligence even though it was obvious Woodward was what the French call Les incompetent.
 
Raoul said:
The Glazers were obviously inept (being kind here), but the common strain in our decade of mediocrity was Woodward imo. He had no meaningful football experience coming in and was basically an investment banker who managed to ingratiate himself Joel and Avram, to where they put him in charge of Manchester Untied. Its no coincidence that our mediocrity began immediately following his arrival (the moment Fergie and Gill departed) and his departure seems to have gotten us back on track. Obviously some of that is the Glazers fault and some can even be apportioned to Fergie for bequeathing the United job to Moyes.
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And Gill for not preparing the club for life without SAF, seemingly poorly preparing his deputy and being the one actually hiring Moyes.
 
Strootman's Finger said:
How do you come to that conclusion? Start watching in 2014? United's benchmark for success is much higher than a couple league cups and a Europa league.
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I started watching Utd mid 80s, Glazers have been in charge since 2005 and arguably oversaw one of the most successful periods in the clubs history, I would argue that was in spite of them, but that was precisely my entire point, that Utd in spite of SJ or SJR are likely to be better than Utd in spite of the Glazers, so my preferred option is not the Glazers.
 
Day 182 of this thread and saga. What we know, in a nutshell:

1. Glazers are selling (most or all) their share in the club.
2. There's two bidders for majority, and a handful of others for minority.
3. The Glazers could sell all of their share, most of it, a minority of it, or pack it in.
4. The process is taking forever, and nobody (but them) really knows why.

The rest is pure speculation.
 
Andy_Cole said:
Well that’s the point. 2005-2013 they were lucky a good footballing system was in place so their complete incompetence/ negligence of the club went unnoticed. They then brought someone in to replace and continued the negligence even though it was obvious Woodward was what the French call Les incompetent.
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We do not. Poor orthography and grammar. :D
 
Andy_Cole said:
Well that’s the point. 2005-2013 they were lucky a good footballing system was in place so their complete incompetence/ negligence of the club went unnoticed. They then brought someone in to replace and continued the negligence even though it was obvious Woodward was what the French call Les incompetent.
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Thought that was Kevin MacAllister
 
devilish said:
What makes you think that someone who had mismanaged Lausanne and Nice will successfully manage a club that is bigger and is competing in a much tougher league?
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What makes you think that Lausanne and Nice are so perfectly comparable, completely different club, league, infrastructure everything, the only thing Utd has in common is that they are all football clubs, beyond that SFA so making knee-jerk comparisons is somewhat well knee-jerky :) why not instead compare to SJR's success in accruing a personal fortune of near £30bn from nothing, building up a company with a £60bn plus annual turnover.... is that any way less apples and oranges than Lausanne and Nice are?

Don't get me wrong I don't love SJR, prefer the bottomless oil money and to hell with my soul and conscience if I had to choose, but I just find it ridiculous when people pick and choose bits and bobs in order to prove the point they want to make, on balance is SJR a successful business man? the answer swings massively to yes, I somehow suspect he is unlikely to pee £6bn up the wall
 
I wonder what is the reason they are taking so long to do this? Like do they think making everyone wait will mean that someone will come up with a higher bid?

It's crazy to think that they have not received enough information already on what someone wants to pay.

Probably us normal people won't understand the 'complexity' of this deal, blah blah. But after six months, what are they actually doing here?
 
Krakenzero said:
Day 182 of this thread and saga. What we know, in a nutshell:

1. Glazers are selling (most or all) their share in the club.
2. There's two bidders for majority, and a handful of others for minority.
3. The Glazers could sell all of their share, most of it, a minority of it, or pack it in.
4. The process is taking forever, and nobody (but them) really knows why.

The rest is pure speculation.
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A good summary. Everything else really is just speculation.
 
The Law of Denis said:
I wonder what is the reason they are taking so long to do this? Like do they think making everyone wait will mean that someone will come up with a higher bid?

It's crazy to think that they have not received enough information already on what someone wants to pay.

Probably us normal people won't understand the 'complexity' of this deal, blah blah. But after six months, what are they actually doing here?
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It's not actually been long and none of these people have had the ability to focus exclusively on that deal, they are all business people and companies that have other things to do. But the most important point the first official talks between Raine and prospective buyers started mid February.
 
Krakenzero said:
Day 182 of this thread and saga. What we know, in a nutshell:

1. Glazers are selling (most or all) their share in the club.
2. There's two bidders for majority, and a handful of others for minority.
3. The Glazers could sell all of their share, most of it, a minority of it, or pack it in.
4. The process is taking forever, and nobody (but them) really knows why.

The rest is pure speculation.
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Raoul said:
A good summary. Everything else really is just speculation.
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Doesn't point 1 contradict point 3 though?
 
Zed 101 said:
What makes you think that Lausanne and Nice are so perfectly comparable, completely different club, league, infrastructure everything, the only thing Utd has in common is that they are all football clubs, beyond that SFA so making knee-jerk comparisons is somewhat well knee-jerky :) why not instead compare to SJR's success in accruing a personal fortune of near £30bn from nothing, building up a company with a £60bn plus annual turnover.... is that any way less apples and oranges than Lausanne and Nice are?

Don't get me wrong I don't love SJR, prefer the bottomless oil money and to hell with my soul and conscience if I had to choose, but I just find it ridiculous when people pick and choose bits and bobs in order to prove the point they want to make, on balance is SJR a successful business man? the answer swings massively to yes, I somehow suspect he is unlikely to pee £6bn up the wall
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Smaller clubs are actually easier to manage then big clubs which is why the likes of Abu Dhabi and Saudi bought small clubs in the first place. One can buy a small club with a good fan base and great facilities (almost as good if not better to ours). On top of that the expectations are low, fans are ready to wait and a couple of good signings can be enough to paper the cracks and make the fan base happy. If they mess things up at the level of Nice and Lausanne then how on earth can they awake a sleeping giant whose got huge infrastructure and football issues and is competing in one of the toughest and most competitive leagues in football history?

The issue with Lausanne and Nice wasn't just in terms of investment (which was too low to meet the silly ambitions laid by SJR). The biggest issue was down to management. Take Lausanne as example. INEOS went there, they placed Bob Ratcliffe whose only football experience he had was coming from the same ball sack SJR came from and he messed it big time. What did SJR do? He moved him to Nice. Guess what happened next? He messed there as well. But that's not all. SJR ordered an audit. Guess who did the audit? You would presume that it came from an experienced football person right? Nope. The audit was made by bicycle man Brailsford whom in turn asked another genius Iain Moody as an advisor. While SJR was promising fans that they would be competing with PSG, the two idiots were busy buying every washed up player from the EPL. As if the likes of Ramsay, Pepe, Barkley and Schmeichel could go toe to toe with Messi, Neymar, Donnarumma and Mbappe. Do you think that Jimmy learnt from his mistakes? Of course not. Bobby Ratcliffe is head of football while cyclist man was part of SJR's inner core who visited Manchester United.

There's no doubt that as a business man SJR knows his stuff. However in football he's an absolute mess. Guess what? I support a football club not a petrochemical business.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
Any potential loses is still a drop in the ocean compared to a deal to buy the club. If we don't qualify for CL we lose £20m from Adidas spread out until our contract ends with them. That would be the main hit the club would take but as the players wages are dependent on CL qualification it would offset that loss.


Even if we were to win it next season the maximum we could earn if last years winners are anything to go by would be £75m which wouldn't buy you an Antony or a Sancho in todays money. Hardly something to hold back a £6b deal.

Anyones guess though with these feckers.
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Not unusual to haggle over a few % even in huge deals - not saying it's definite but certain plausible
 
Rood said:
Not unusual to haggle over a few % even in huge deals - not saying it's definite but certain plausible
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Those few percents are the funds for one or two brand new superyachts. I would be haggling until the end of time.
 
Berbaclass said:
They don't care as long as they have proof of funding and will pass the owners and directors test.
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The fit and proper persons test is a joke, Gangsters and criminals have passed it no problem. Nobody is ever failing that as long as they have a few quid.
 
Gill gets the credit of basically allowing SAF to do whatever he wanted. Which was a no brainer considering how powerful SAF was.. He will always be linked with the value signings whom while being partly successful (ex Evra, Vidic and Carrick), in most cases it was not. Gill failed to tap United's full potential in terms of sponsors which made us more vulnerable to a take over. He also failed to push for the modernisation of the club (ex DOF etc) and he basically left behind a mess ie an ageing squad and a manager who has no clue what management at top level is. Its evident that the club had no contingency plan to when SAF was going to retire.

From a purely financial perspective Woodward was far better. He leveraged the debt on the Glazers behalf, he opened United to a whole world of sponsorships and he even managed to sell Carrington's name which is amazing considering that its located in the middle of nowhere. The guy was so good in his job that he was the only non Glazer allowed to own B class shares. Considering how greedy these leeches are then that's quite amazing.

What Woodward tanked big time was his inability to acknowledge the need to modernise the football side of the club. Its amazing that the Glazers were unable to notice that and had never pushed Woodward to seek tangible help on that part of their business. So many millions had been thrown in the bin because of that. However let's not kid ourselves. Gill didn't bother on modernising the football side as well. He was just happy to piggy bank on SAF with no care in the world what would happen once the ageing genius decided to call quits.
 
For all the bluster from football journalists trying to give the impression they have inside information, I would bet good money that it will be financial journalists who get the scoop and the football journalists will all rehash, spin and fudge the information they drop
 
Pexbo said:
For all the bluster from football journalists trying to give the impression they have inside information, I would bet good money that it will be financial journalists who get the scoop and the football journalists will all rehash, spin and fudge the information they drop
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Pretty much
 
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