Club Sale | It’s done!

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I also wonder if the reiteration that the club would be looking for proof of funds has caused the Qataris problems.

We all know Jassim doesn't have the funds personally, so on order to obtain proof he's have to show either his father (doesn't appear to be interested in football) or show from another source.

Every since it was mentioned that Raine and the club would be seeking this proof, the Qatar bid has been on the back foot. Could just be a coincidence, or could be something more.
 
Bosws87 said:
it’s laughable got people saying he’s buying it for that valuation, if that’s what he’s offered for all the shares, why are we even sat having this conversation it’s over as he’s given the glazer what they want.

The actual reality is he has offered more money for a full takeover, but it’s not enough so now he’s buying less at a higher value to try and push it through.

Yet we don’t understand and are the fools.
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The second claim isn't correct. The valuation and the offer don't have to be the same and in this case they aren't for the simple reason that Raine isn't even taking offers for 100% of the club.
 
JPRouve said:
The second claim isn't correct. The valuation and the offer don't have to be the same and in this case they aren't for the simple reason that Raine isn't even taking offers for 100% of the club.
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I didn’t say they have to be the same. It’s disingenuous to claim he’s buying and bid that amount as it’s simply not true.
 
pocco said:
It's irrelevant though, because the Glazers are the majority and will take more from the INEOS bid.
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Obviously not irrelevant, anyone who thinks he's just bid $6.5bn is clearly thinking in gibberish. We don't even know if that valuation is for a 69% (full Glazer takeover) or just for 51% controlling stake. Each offer could value the club differently.
 
Castia said:
Id feel a lot better if Jim had an actual outline for the club (even a leak to the press) because if you're saying Qatar are acting like Kids when their trying to commit between 6-7B into the club before they've even looked at signing players then thats crazy

Looks like Jim is willing to do anything for control including a 51% stake whilst Qatar want the whole thing and rightly so

There wont be anybody willing to buy the club outright, pay off all the debts and build a new 1B+ stadium ever again
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Based on what?
 
pocco said:
It's irrelevant though, because the Glazers are the majority and will take more from the INEOS bid.
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Wrong , someone else could buy United for more money without reaching that valuation.
 
MiamiSpartan said:
The key point is the valuation of the club that each bid is based on. That's what determines the price per share that each Glazer that chooses to sell would receive.
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Yep, the 4 siblings that are selling each receive more cash the higher the total valuation is, and that is all that matters to them.
 
Now there are seemingly 2 clear options, is it time for another poll, INEOS or Qatar?
 
JustCoco said:
Grow up kid.

I'm giving the simple truth. Ineos' money isn't from anything gross or inhumane.

That said, I'd rather have Jassim as it means the Glazers are actually gone.

Why are you having such a hard-on for Qatar, even going to the level of lying?
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Growing up isn’t all that its made to be looking at you. Both made their money from oil. And of you think raping the environment isn’t gross or inhumane then you need to get your priorities right.
And as i have explained previously both potential owners are despicable and if i have to choose between two bad owners i would rather choose someone whose plans are best for the club.
 
MTF said:
Based on what?
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Based on the 1 person on the planet currently willing to do it now?

Not exactly a mass of people wanting to buy the club outright nevermind the commitment of clearing debt and building a stadium
 
Castia said:
Based on the 1 person on the planet currently willing to do it now?

Not exactly a mass of people wanting to buy the club outright nevermind the commitment of clearing debt and building a stadium
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And as for your claim of "ever again"?
 
Castia said:
Id feel a lot better if Jim had an actual outline for the club (even a leak to the press) because if you're saying Qatar are acting like Kids when their trying to commit between 6-7B into the club before they've even looked at signing players then thats crazy

Looks like Jim is willing to do anything for control including a 51% stake whilst Qatar want the whole thing and rightly so

Theres nobody now or will possibly ever offer the money Qatar is putting forward at this minute
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I can give you a 100% guarantee that if he is successful, he will lay out his vision for the club.

From the very early days of this process I've maintained this is not a business project for Ratcliffe, but a passion project. He's made quotes to this effect as well.

Rather than make promises now, I'd rather he made guarantees once he was in control. Rather than promise a new stadium or redeveloping Old Trafford, I'd rather he commissioned a survey into the validity of both options, the costs, the time frame and the potential alternative home for X years. Rather than claiming £300m for transfers, I'd much rather he hire a top level DoF and entrusted him and the manager to make the right calls, and then to back them financially.

What people are asking for with Qatar is similar to the early years of City, where they wasted an enormous amount of money and ran the club like they were playing a game. Which is all I see with Qatars PR promises at this stage. We'd end up with our own Robinho on deadline day.
 
There's still too much unknown about Qatar's bid anyway. Say they bid £5bn ($6.2bn). Is that offer for 100% or 69%. Does it include debt or not. Does it include additional investment or not.

If they bid $6.2bn for 69% including debt then that's effectively a $5.5bn offer direct to the Glazers, and much higher than Ratcliffe's offer.

If they bid $6.2bn, but that's the amount to buy 100% of the club, and includes debt, then that's a $3.8bn offer to the Glazers.

The only reason it's reported as lower than Ratcliffe's valuation is because they assumed or were told it included £0.8bn of additional investment.
 
DOTA said:
Not the most persuasive argument I've ever seen.
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Well im not 100% guaranteed to take a shit tomorrow but there's a very good chance I will do

Lets argue that there will be somebody in the future willing to offer the club what Qatar currently are though if it makes you happy
 
Bosws87 said:
But the ineos bid is only for the 51% which is the controlling aspect so they may never get that value again depending on what happens in the future with their remaining percent, so you can't say Jim is the best bid he's giving them more money because it is a straight lie.
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To The Glazers it would seem that giving 51% for the highest possible amount would be better than giving away 100% for proportionally less.
 
JagUTD said:
I can give you a 100% guarantee that if he is successful, he will lay out his vision for the club.

From the very early days of this process I've maintained this is not a business project for Ratcliffe, but a passion project. He's made quotes to this effect as well.

Rather than make promises now, I'd rather he made guarantees once he was in control. Rather than promise a new stadium or redeveloping Old Trafford, I'd rather he commissioned a survey into the validity of both options, the costs, the time frame and the potential alternative home for X years. Rather than claiming £300m for transfers, I'd much rather he hire a top level DoF and entrusted him and the manager to make the right calls, and then to back them financially.

What people are asking for with Qatar is similar to the early years of City, where they wasted an enormous amount of money and ran the club like they were playing a game. Which is all I see with Qatars PR promises at this stage. We'd end up with our own Robinho on deadline day.
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Good post mate
 
wow, less than 24 hours and its turned from Jassim's still confident to Jassim hasn't given up....
 
hobbers said:
There's still too much unknown about Qatar's bid anyway. Say they bid £5bn ($6.2bn). Is that offer for 100% or 69%. Does it include debt or not. Does it include additional investment or not.

If they bid $6.2bn for 69% including debt then that's effectively a $5.5bn offer direct to the Glazers, and much higher than Ratcliffe's offer.

If they bid $6.2bn, but that's the amount to buy 100% of the club, and includes debt, then that's a $3.7bn offer to the Glazers, still higher than Ratcliffe's' offer.

The only reason it's reported as lower than Ratcliffe's valuation is because they assumed or were told it included £0.8bn of additional investment.
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I would've thought that if they'd offered the Glazers £5bn for the 69% we would be hearing very different messaging coming out as I cannot imagine that not being accepted.
 
Castia said:
Well im not 100% guaranteed to take a shit tomorrow but there's a very good chance I will do

Lets argue that there will be somebody in the future willing to offer the club what Qatar currently are though if it makes you happy
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I wish you luck.
 
Tiber said:
Absolutely loads of new pages today. Any actual news?
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No one knows shit about feck and everyone’s interpreting any no info updates from unreliable Tweets in a way that supports their preference. As you were really.
 
JagUTD said:
I can give you a 100% guarantee that if he is successful, he will lay out his vision for the club.

From the very early days of this process I've maintained this is not a business project for Ratcliffe, but a passion project. He's made quotes to this effect as well.

Rather than make promises now, I'd rather he made guarantees once he was in control. Rather than promise a new stadium or redeveloping Old Trafford, I'd rather he commissioned a survey into the validity of both options, the costs, the time frame and the potential alternative home for X years. Rather than claiming £300m for transfers, I'd much rather he hire a top level DoF and entrusted him and the manager to make the right calls, and then to back them financially.

What people are asking for with Qatar is similar to the early years of City, where they wasted an enormous amount of money and ran the club like they were playing a game. Which is all I see with Qatars PR promises at this stage. We'd end up with our own Robinho on deadline day.
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If Ineos wanted to make money from a new business opportunity, they wouldn't be buying a football club, let alone the most expensive football club in the world (given that Real and Barca can't be bought).
 
DOTA said:
I would've thought that if they'd offered the Glazers £5bn for the 69% we would be hearing very different messaging coming out as I cannot imagine that not being accepted.
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More then likely they haven’t and it’s for the 100% which is still a bigger bid then Jim’s if the confusion about the debt is correct.
 
Rojofiam said:
If Ineos wanted to make money from a new business opportunity, they wouldn't be buying a football club, let alone the most expensive football club in the world (given that Real and Barca can't be bought).
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Its absolutely not a business project.
 
DOTA said:
I would've thought that if they'd offered the Glazers £5bn for the 69% we would be hearing very different messaging coming out as I cannot imagine that not being accepted.
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Yeah you'd think, but then whoever first reported that their bid included the additional investment made it seem a lot lower than it might actually be, and all the other simpleton sports journos just ran with it.

And if they were wrong about that were they also wrong about what stake the bid was for.

If Jassim's bid £5bn for 69% + debt then it's still the best offer on the table by miles.
 
Gordon Godot said:
Its absolutely not a business project.
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And yet so many people resort to this lazy viewpoint that Ineos and Ratcliffe just want to make money out of it, or want to take dividends, or something, not realizing that SJR's own company makes billions a year, any annual profit he could take from Manchester United would be a drop in the bucket, not to mention that he's worth ~20bn pounds anyways.
 
hobbers said:
Don't know how so many of you are struggling with such basic financial concepts. Ratcliffe isn't bidding $6.5bn. His offer for 51% or 69% might value the club at $6.5bn.

If he's offering that valuation to buy out all of the Glazers, and not just 51% which it may well be, then he's offering £3.6bn. And that makes no mention of paying off the current debt or how much of that he's borrowing himself.
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The same goes for Jassim. He has bid just over £5bn EV but will only pay 69% of that to the Glazers as their shares are the only ones for sale in this process.
 
Bosws87 said:
it’s laughable got people saying he’s buying it for that valuation, if that’s what he’s offered for all the shares, why are we even sat having this conversation it’s over as he’s given the glazer what they want.

The actual reality is he has offered more money for a full takeover, but it’s not enough so now he’s buying less at a higher value to try and push it through.

Yet we don’t understand and are the fools.
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We understand just fine, it’s you who have taken people for idiots while failing at Maths yourselves.

To break it down as succintly as possible:

  • The Qatari has maintained that they want nothing but 100% of the club, that means the 69% class B shares and 31% class A shares floated on the NYSE.
  • According to Keegan, their 3rd round bid came in at just over £5bn, or $6.3bn at current exchange rate. We have to assume that that is their valuation for 100% of the club, since if it’s just for the Glazers shares, it would put the total valuation well above £6bn, which were said to be what the Glazers were aiming for.
  • The current market cap of Utd on the NYSE as of today is $3.16bn, the total floated shares at current price amount to a little over $1bn. The Qatari offer, as a result, would come to about $5.2bn for the 6 Glazers.
  • Avram and Joel Glazer are reported to be reluctant to sell the club, hence they explored minority investment from hedge funds like Elliot and Carlyle as part of this process
  • INEOS/Jim Ratcliffe offered a $6.5bn or £5.2bn valuation for the club.
  • INEOS/Ratcliffe is flexible about how to achieve control, by various deal structures. The ones publicly reported thus far are 1) full buy out of the 69% shares (est. $5.5bn) or a 51% controlling stake (est. $4.1 bn), leaving Joel/Avram in place with their shares, with options to sell at a higher price/premium in the next 2 years, or to remain indefinitely.
  • In either scenario offered by INEOS/Ratcliffe, the Glazers individually or collectively receive more money from them than the Qatari.
That’s all from publicly available info from sport journalists and media outlets. If you don’t believe them, there’s nothing to discuss. If you do, then the key takeaway is the INEOS offer at the moment is higher than Qatari, for the Glazers, because they don’t give a shit if the debt is repaid, they don’t give a shit if the floated shares are bought back and the club taken private, they don’t give a shit if Qatar has pledged further investment into the club. What matters is they are receiving more money for their shares, that’s it.
 
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