But this is a problem created entirely within the heads of people seemingly against Ratcliffe on a personal level.
Club Sale | It’s done!
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But this is a problem created entirely within the heads of people seemingly against Ratcliffe on a personal level.
Maybe he has a proper business model and what it takes to win was beyond his most optimistic scenarios.
The “investment on top” is not relevant to the deal. It’s just included by Qatar as propaganda targeted at fans.
Not really, INEOS biggest problem has been the lack of clarity with the debt and investment and it’s still the same you have to at least ask why? Might be nothing in it but it’s being left open to interpretation for a reason.
the whole Qatar bid is to get fans on board! That’s sports washing, that’s the point. But at least it’s blatantly obvious, you don’t have to be smart to work it out. Their intentions are clear.
Ratcliffe’s intentions are purely money based and it becomes more and more clear each passing hour, it will be a horrible mess.
Also football is already dead.
That argument is nonsense. There were enough protests against Murdoch buying the club to prove that. Then there was the hostile campaign to stop John Magnier and JP McManus getting involved. People have always held any potential investor with a huge degree of scepticism. That's good. We shouldn't be actively cheering anyone to be the temporary legal custodians of our football club.
Nobody is arguing that white money is clean. There are concerns about Ratcliffe sure. But he isn't essentially a puppet for an entire state. That's what people have an issue with and why they might see Ratcliffe as the lesser of two evils.
Can we please please stop accusing others of being racist because of where they might stand on this. Unless they're actively screaming "No Muslims" or "Whites only" then they're argument against Qatar or Jassim probably isn't based on race or religion.
Propaganda, or maybe it just sets out a vision for the people who will be most effected by the decision the fans, the most important piece in the puzzle.
Can call it what you want, but I’d much rather have an open laid out to bare promises on the table before a decision is made.
Neither financing nor future investment are relevant to the deal. They don’t matter to the seller, they only matter to fans.
The deal doesn’t involve fans, just the seller and the buyer, whether we like it or not.
My problem is allowing the Glazers to even walk through the turnstiles after the sale, let alone still own part of the club - the set-up being reported makes me very wary of the Ineos bid. Do they have the money to continually pump in season after season? There's very little doubt that the Qataris do...
I hear what people are saying about "oil money killing football" but you just have to face the fact that it's here and here to stay, so do you want to be right up there with the future or languishing behind...?
I hear what people are saying about "oil money killing football" but you just have to face the fact that it's here and here to stay, so do you want to be right up there with the future or languishing behind...?
Is it true that Manchester United fans are being asked to swear allegiance to Jim Ratcliffe?
Good post, and wish you all the best with your health too mate.
Fans aren’t a part of the “puzzle” at all, let alone the most important part.
It’s a decision for the seller, pure and simple.
Which is where the bid may come to a serious issue today as Jim is getting no good press from todays protest, I imagine he’s gonna be portrayed as in bed with the glazers by lots at the end of play.
Fans power is really really under valued, they can and will have a say.
The same regurgitated bullshit again. No countries other than Qatar are trying to buy the club, rendering your rant about the UK utterly pointless.
There are NDAs so no bidders can discuss details. All we have are leaks from unconfirmed sources.
Or, given the terms set out by those managing the process, it makes sense to avoid largely meaningless PR.
Doing so may in fact give one party an advantage over another, which may be incapable of keeping their mouth shut.
Should Ratcliffe be successful, I expect he will make his plans public and at that point we can all scrutinise them.
Our Jimmy, who art from Farnworth
Can be interpreted in many ways, just how I feel, but let’s not pretend this hasn’t been playing out like a PR exercise from all parties, I’ll be at the protest today so be interesting to see the turnout and get a general feel on the consensus.
It will be interesting for sure. I sense a lot of the anti Ratcliffe feeling comes from the social media fanbase but that's where most of the noise is coming from. Today will give us a better picture no doubt.
I’ve been out but I see overnight it looks like Qatar are behind Jim?
My phones exploded with people buzzing over the idea Qatar might not take over. Just got to wait now.
My phones exploded with people buzzing over the idea Qatar might not take over. Just got to wait now.
Sportswashing is so effective you don’t even need to successfully buy the club to weaponise fan sentiment.
I don't want to criticise those on the front lines because they mean well, but protesting for an all or nothing outcome to me just seems to suggest that nothing is an acceptable outcome.
There's something to be said for a bit of flexibility.
I have a feeling Jim’s gonna be cast as a glazer today from the fans, so the total opposite.
The problem is that this has been gone over time and again and the multiple reasons for being against Qatari ownership have been laid out over and over. At a certain point, the burden of proof falls on the person making accusations. I personally haven't seen much if anything to make me think that racism is at the root of objections to Jassim's ownership. If you have have, feel free to quote them and report them. Accusations of racism are a useful way of deflecting deserved attention from the actual reasons that people disagree with Qatari ownership.
Lets just have Round 4 and be done with it.
If SJR came out with a half Decent bid then fans would have been warmer to him.
His original bids were fine this keeping the glazers on seems like a power move on one side of the card, but a disaster on the other.
Seems like an irrational point of view without all the facts to hand.
Seems like we've come full circle on the debate of Qatar vs Brexit Chemical bids again...
If the Glazers were reduced to A share holders, as was claimed by Phil Brown, then what?
Do you know who holds the 31%? I think the biggest shareholder is a hedge fund, then George Soros followed by many minor shareholders. They'd simply become no different to them.
Cracks started showing up when goldman sachs showed up. Then it became obvious that the old debt will remain on the club. The final hit came when the Glazers were kept.
I could have closed an eye to the first part if Ratcliffe managed Nice and Lausanne successfully. Unfortunately he is kind of clueless in football as well.
INEOS is oil money as well though. Our options are essentially oil money A, oil money B, or the Glazers.
It’s the view I’ve got from the people close to me in the stadium.
There’s nothing more irrational then football fans, so that’s a given.
Fixed that for you.
Tbf football games are often used as a release of stress and emotion. Which is why I watch games alone at home
I know. The argument that some horrible old people 100s of years ago, who are now dead used slavery in the UK, so UK people can't complain about countires using slaves now, is such a weak point.
I hear you my man, I have no issue with anybody not wanting the Qatar bid for whatever reason. I just feel that it is a little bit disingenuous for people to keep talking about HRA as the reason as to why.
Every country in the top 10 economies in the world has had HRA issues, every one of them. So if people don't want Qatar to own the club fair enough just stop using the HRA issues as the reason.
And if truth be told I more pissed of with white people telling non white people how they should feel. Telling people they shouldn't use the race card.
There is a reason why you will never hear anybody say stop using the white card, it because white people already have the cards due to the colour of their skin.
Of course you haven't seen much if anything, because I presume you are white. You will never see it which is why there is a term called unconscious bias
Unconscious bias is when people make judgments or decisions on the basis of prior experiences , personal deep-seated thought patterns, assumptions or interpretations, and they are not aware that they are doing it.
Racism does not have to be overt, the majority of time it's not.
But I guess because you have not seen it, then it doesn't exist and all the non white people should just say
OK master
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Ratcliffe ownership will still leave us in same position of being heavily financed with considerable debt repayments and needing to find £700m-£1.3bn in addition to that to fund the stadium project
Man, this whole saga is frustrating to sit through.
Cannot wait for this fecking circus to end.
- The (understandable) lack of verifiable information resulting in complete speculation and guesswork from the media.
- This in turn leading to sections of the fanbase just picking up and running with theories and angles as if they are confirmed facts.
- A huge knowledge gap in corporate finance resulting in constant misinformed detractions against SJR bid, based entirely on making assumptions based on the lack of public information.
- The toxic rhetoric against Qatar being countered with claims of racism is detracting from the very legitimate and reasonable concerns against the bid.
Cannot wait for this fecking circus to end.
This thread is circular
and yes that argument is ridiculous.- Status