Club Sale | It’s done!

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They need investment badly to do anything meaningful from here, but even with a minority investment you wonder if they’ll be able to take a dividend again.

I can see a scenario where they take on a billion and fix the training ground and stadium but I’m not sure where that leaves the finances moving forward.

Baring in mind we’re settling a £300m debt this summer.
 
As far as Carlyle are concerned, it's probably just a negotiating tactic to give bidders something to think about when revising their bids. It was the same in the last round of bids only that time it was Elliot, this time it's Elliot Mk2, it's not a coincidence that we've got a new round of bids and a new "bidder" comes to the fore that conveniently gives an incentive to substantially raise their offers.
 
HarryP said:
Everyone discussing Ratcliffe or Qatar when the real fight was between Elliott and Carlyle... :lol:

Would be typical of the Glazers. I doubt they ever had any intention to leave and minority investment was always their preferred outcome.
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Or… it’s a four way fight?
 
Adisa said:
A minority stake only has two outcomes.
  • The Glazers use some of their equity to invest in the club. (Will never happen).
  • The Glazers borrow against the inflated value of the club. (Our cashflow can barely handle it and the fans won’t allow another match played at that stadium).
it’s for these reasons, I have always been convinced this will be a full sale. I have seen nothing to change my mind.
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This is key but cant the club issue out new shares? What I also don't get is how would the wantaway contingent feel about selling off their own shares and reinvesting them in the club when they actively want to cash out?

Another thing is how does an investor settle for paying £1b to £2b for a 20% stake that has like 5% voting power? And if they make a special dispensation for this shareholder then what would the other shareholders whose holdings carry only 10% of the voting power say?

To me this looks like a pointed communication to Qatar, if you don't pay us what we want we have options that can enable us to stay. But if the worst comes to the worst, as long as we keep the ETH-Arnold-Murtough triumvirate in place and get maybe £2b investment that is used on the facilities and to partly fund the summer window then we will stay on track.
 
Mr. Robot said:
That's illegal - it's market manipulation.

Some of the shite spouted in here on a daily basis is quite something.

Can we stop using our anxieties and neurosis as a basis for pointless conspiracy theories? It's depressing now.
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M16Red said:
I'm not anxious or depressed - if fact I'm really happy, a bit hungover.

How is market manipulation?

They said they wish to sell, no one has reached their valuation. They have a right to sell shares or even seek better liquidity.
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Tom Van Persie said:
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God I hate these cnuts.

Typical greedy bankers.

IPO debit stacking using valuation
 
Mr. Robot said:
That's illegal - it's market manipulation.

Some of the shite spouted in here on a daily basis is quite something.

Can we stop using our anxieties and neurosis as a basis for pointless conspiracy theories? It's depressing now.
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It isn't illegal, that's nonsense of the highest degree.

The Glazers have been completely transparent from the start that they would consider both a full sale and a minority investment. It's not their fault if a bunch of people completely disregarded the minority investment bit and the price got inflated as a result.
 
AneRu said:
This is key but cant the club issue out new shares? What I also don't get is how would the wantaway contingent feel about selling off their own shares and reinvesting them in the club when they actively want to cash out?

Another thing is how does an investor settle for paying £1b to £2b for a 20% stake that has like 5% voting power? And if they make a special dispensation for this shareholder then what would the other shareholders whose holdings carry only 10% of the voting power say?

To me this looks like a pointed communication to Qatar, if you don't pay us what we want we have options that can enable us to stay. But if the worst comes to the worst, as long as we keep the ETH-Arnold-Murtough triumvirate in place and get maybe £2b investment that is used on the facilities and to partly fund the summer window then we will stay on track.
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Avram Glazer sold £70 million of shares, and last month (march 2021) his brothers Kevin and Edward sold similar stakes, bringing in almost £140 million… for them, not United. And the family still owns nearly 70 per cent of the total shares and all of the all-important class B shares, which are worth 10 votes for every class A share. The club is a private cashpoint for the Glazers at this point.

There are classes of shares, I think we need to look at the bonds vs inflation

https://www.ifre.com/story/1381114/loans-manchester-united-scores-us840m-refinancing-0tdqhsgfhk
 
Another set of vultures circling with this Carlyle group. They can feck off as well! I really hope Sheikh Jassim’s final bid hits or gets very close to the £6B mark because the prospect of this Carlyle or Elliot group buying a stake and the parasites remaining doesn’t bear thinking about.
 
I'm genuinely getting fed up of this bullshit, not much seems to go in our favour now a days either. If it's not the media projecting negativity it's our own owners finding ways to constantly screw over the club and its fans. F*ck them, I hope we make it as insufferable as possible for them.
 
So then…

- Shiek Jassim
- INEOS
- Elliot Investments
- Carlyle
- Swedish Bloke

7 reported serious bidders…

Two left to reveal themselves.
 
devilish said:
This comes our 24 hrs after Ben Jacobs claimed that Elliott hasn't been involved in the third rounds of talks yet
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Imo, this wouldn't be the worst thing in the short term. Them owning say 25% of the club would weaken the Glazers influence and at least make everything slightly more settled before a very important Summer.

In the long term, I'm not sure what's bad anout having a model that's similar to what we had pre 2005. A variety of different groups/people owning stakes within the club. Gets the Glazers out and avoids a complicated saga and a (potentially anyway) iffy politically situation with Qatar or even Ratcliffe.
 
HarryP said:
It isn't illegal, that's nonsense of the highest degree.

The Glazers have been completely transparent from the start that they would consider both a full sale and a minority investment. It's not their fault if a bunch of people completely disregarded the minority investment bit and the price got inflated as a result.
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To be fair it is confusing - market manipulation, because governments are doing it right now - bonds are inverted, Bank bailouts and printing money.

@Mr. Robot while there is a upside to news release, its actually more on the valuation right now we are all talking about 6 bil - the timing was perfect for them with the sale of Chelsea and public price.

Before we was valued at 3 bil.

Oh crap, look bonds "the new bonds pay 3.79% and are due in 2027"

Inflation is higher than the actual bond yield.

Bond prices decline when interest rates rise, when the issuer experiences a negative credit event, or as market liquidity dries up.
Inflation can also erode the returns on bonds, as well as taxes or regulatory changes.

Just sell you old cnuts..
 
MancunianAngels said:
Imo, this wouldn't be the worst thing in the short term. Them owning say 25% of the club would weaken the Glazers influence and at least make everything slightly more settled before a very important Summer.

In the long term, I'm not sure what's bad anout having a model that's similar to what we had pre 2005. A variety of different groups/people owning stakes within the club. Gets the Glazers out and avoids a complicated saga and a (potentially anyway) iffy politically situation with Qatar or even Ratcliffe.
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It's difficult to say what is going on but it looks more likely that the Glazers are selling. They would not be involved in a 3rd bidding round if they aren’t selling. I also noticed that even among the more cautious journalists (ex jacobs), they are starting to hedge their bets on qatar
 
MancunianAngels said:
Imo, this wouldn't be the worst thing in the short term. Them owning say 25% of the club would weaken the Glazers influence and at least make everything slightly more settled before a very important Summer.

In the long term, I'm not sure what's bad anout having a model that's similar to what we had pre 2005. A variety of different groups/people owning stakes within the club. Gets the Glazers out and avoids a complicated saga and a (potentially anyway) iffy politically situation with Qatar or even Ratcliffe.
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Nonsense. Long term this would be absolutely fecking awful.
 
feck the hedge funds. Qatar need to hurry up and get this deal done. Its not ideal but its better than a hedge fund or wall street backing for continued Glazer ownership
 
Tiber said:
feck the hedge funds. Qatar need to hurry up and get this deal done. Its not ideal but its better than a hedge fund
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Why's that? Surely a hedge fund would want to build our value and would make sound business decisions rather than being driven by ego.
 
webbthepostie said:
Why's that? Surely a hedge fund would want to build our value and would make sound business decisions rather than being driven by ego.
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I think the issue some people would have with hedge funds and the like is they would try to maintain a profit, which could impact future movements in the transfer market.

Whereas Qatar, despite still having the same issues, are less likely to make decisions based on profit.
 
HarryP said:
It isn't illegal, that's nonsense of the highest degree.

The Glazers have been completely transparent from the start that they would consider both a full sale and a minority investment. It's not their fault if a bunch of people completely disregarded the minority investment bit and the price got inflated as a result.
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Look Arry, we know you’re not really a Utd fan and your fantasy is Utd being plunged into even more debt.

But Qatar is buying us and you will disappear into the night, like the angry Scouser you are!
 
Look Sir Jim and Sheikh Jassim, we do have other options, if you don't meet our absurd price we'll take one of the many other 'serious' offers we have.

The Glazers/Raine could at least be subtle about their desperation.
 
I can’t see a world where either SJR or Qatar think any of these minority investment options are remotely possible. Like, if any sane person can see through them, surely they can. As well as being a family of scum, are the glazers really that fecking stupid as well?
 


Hopefully Ben is right. A minority sale will be a disaster.

Will just prolonge the Glazers ownership for potentially another decade or more.
 
Mr. Robot said:
Look Arry, we know you’re not really a Utd fan and your fantasy is Utd being plunged into even more debt.

But Qatar is buying us and you will disappear into the night, like the angry Scouser you are!
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I don't really like the get involved with other posters but I can't wait for the club to be sold completely by the Glazer's so that Harry P can disappear from my life forever.
 
HarryP said:
Everyone discussing Ratcliffe or Qatar when the real fight was between Elliott and Carlyle... :lol:

Would be typical of the Glazers. I doubt they ever had any intention to leave and minority investment was always their preferred outcome.
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Carlyle aren't the fight. They are friends of HBJ.
 
MancunianAngels said:
Imo, this wouldn't be the worst thing in the short term. Them owning say 25% of the club would weaken the Glazers influence and at least make everything slightly more settled before a very important Summer.

In the long term, I'm not sure what's bad anout having a model that's similar to what we had pre 2005. A variety of different groups/people owning stakes within the club. Gets the Glazers out and avoids a complicated saga and a (potentially anyway) iffy politically situation with Qatar or even Ratcliffe.
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All it would do is secure the Glazers until they think a bigger payday is coming and ensure the same two idiots remain in charge.

I just can’t see them selling anything like 25% as none of that goes in their pockets and they’ve got to make that back plus whatever else they think club is worth at a future date.
 


The wording of this is bat shit, favourites out of the two investment options or outright?
 
The fans won’t allow anything other now than a Glazer total sale and they know that.
 
This is all part of the game. There's no way after coming so far that they can stay now. The protests will be insane and probably turn very very ugly for the club.

Feels like they are trying to squeeze the sale price to me
 
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