Lampard doesn't sit in midfield, how do you think he's got all his goals? He's an attacking one who drives into the final third and threads balls through. It's not a direct comparison, as I said, but I see it there. Gerrard plays a fairly similar role (well, he did behind Torres), Scholes in his younger days. All three are superior to Dempsey so again, I'm not sure what you're on about with this "stunting" of English players.
Clint Dempsey- Fulham
- Thread starter Longlivekeano
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Lampard doesn't sit in midfield, how do you think he's got all his goals? He's an attacking one who drives into the final third and threads balls through. It's not a direct comparison, as I said, but I see it there. Gerrard plays a fairly similar role (well, he did behind Torres), Scholes in his younger days. All three are superior to Dempsey so again, I'm not sure what you're on about with this "stunting" of English players.
You can add Wayne Rooney in there too.
Lampard was never a wide-forward, winger or center forward type, he's almost always played in a two-man or three-man midfield with freedom to play further forward, as an attacking midfielder as you state. So yes he gets his goals and yes he's great (though he's no Scholes). So out of millions of English youth that's a handful of top class attacking players. Plenty of nations that have football as the top sport can point to that. Players like Milner were excellent as youth and stunted later, at least that's what I've come to believe. Perhaps Joe Cole as well.
You're own fellow countrymen have posted throughout the years how the English system stunts players where as systems in other nations cultivates these players and allows them to adapt/apply their personal style to the instruction of coaching/systems. It's very evident when you read posters comparing Brazilian and Spanish to English youth development.
Well excuse me for having a contrary opinion to yours oh mighty one. He is a midtable player who had a very good season, and yes, got into peoples teams of the season on merit. Michael ricketts also had a great season once and I didnt think he was top four material either, and neither is dempsy.
Im welsh. Its a small country, or in american terms a shopping mall, but not england, we do tend to get offended if you get it wrong. Thanks.
My issue with your point was that you were talking as if his development was much to do with America, when he and Donovan are probably your best outfield players you've produced this century! Maybe you should take a look at your own backyard before commenting on the English way of developing. Yes, it's not an elite level, but to say naturally talented players are "stunted" compared to those who develop in the US is far-fetched. Milner was never that good and I don't understand where that comparison comes from, either.
It's just another "dismiss the player because he's American" tripe. And if you care to notice, football (or soccer over'hur) isn't the top sport, it's about sixth in the ranking. Thus it's not surprising the US hasn't produced top class players for a century. Then again England hasn't had a decent keeper in years yet the US had pushed out three since the late 90s. Perhaps this makes the 1-1 WC draw a bigger result with England having all those world class players and the US having a couple marginally class players, as you emphatically pointed out the US lack of talent (sigh).
But alas this isn't a my dick is bigger than yours thread. Bottom line is your own countrymen claim player development is lagging/stunted/lacking/whatever adjective desired compared to top nations like Brazil and Spain. Hence my comment about a player being stunted in the English setup.
Yet I think you'll find that is what many people were saying when we signed Valencia - give him better players around him and he will score more goals and raise his level of play.
Same thing was said about Arteta.
And pretty much everyone who said it looked like an asshole at season's end.
You cannot definitively say a player is mid table if he has excelled at mid table and not had a chance to play for a higher placed team. He could easily excel with better players around him.
Kind of stupid to definitively say otherwise. And to say he has just had one good season is ignorant.
Well, to be fair you DID produce Alexi Lalas who was class, AND had one of the worlds great beards.....
No, its not ignorant, it means that people have differing standards of what makes a good season, not everything you say is automaticlly fact.
Ill Agree with you about Arteta and actually I thought from the start he could do a job at a higher level.
And finally, it is perfectly possible to say a player at a midtable club who has never played at a higher level is a midtable player until he proves otherwise, and if he does Ill be the first person to say I was wrong. If he does have ambitions to prove himself then a move to Liverpool....another midtable club is really the wrong way to go about it.
Dempsey was interesting a few years ago and at 25 might have been worth a punt but not now.
No no, keep up Pete, its because we are all anti american.
I was just thinking that not enough of Liverpool's players like to play behind the striker, 'in the hole' if you will, and that they should buy another one.
He could play a mean guitar as well. Awesome pundit too.
I forget which Serie A team he was at, I want to say Roma? but I always had a secret wish for him to come to OT.
Padova I think.
That rings a bell tbf
Read that he trainied with Arsenal back in 92/93 timeframe but wasn't offered a contract.
Balboa was better too but Lalas had the beard and the publicity.
Balboa was better too but Lalas had the beard and the publicity.
good no nonsense player.
puts himself about.
puts himself about.
Marcello always gets steamed up over American players so to see him saying that we would rate him more if he was English is very comical. I remember having a debate with him about Tim Howard during the WC, he hated it because I said he was awful at United, which he was. He's a good poster, wouldn't be the same without him be you need to tell him that all yank players are top ten world class to keep him happy.
I don't rate Donavan at all, even at Everton. He came in with enthusiasm, trying, that's about it and Dempsey is not good enough for United no matter what he does at Fulham. I'd prefer a proper CM not a Lampard dreamer.
I don't rate Donavan at all, even at Everton. He came in with enthusiasm, trying, that's about it and Dempsey is not good enough for United no matter what he does at Fulham. I'd prefer a proper CM not a Lampard dreamer.
To be fair donavan is cack.
Claymore talks plenty of shit himself, but he thinks his word is gold. A brick wall is far more entertaining to talk to. For starters, brick walls don't go on and on about the English national team.
Btw, I've always been against Donovan for seeking MLS glory over sticking it out in Europe. I stand up for my national player when people talk ridiculous shit over them simply because they're Americans, no more or less.
Btw, I've always been against Donovan for seeking MLS glory over sticking it out in Europe. I stand up for my national player when people talk ridiculous shit over them simply because they're Americans, no more or less.
He's been good in the USA but when you look at his CV it doesn't compare to even Dempseys IMO. Dempsey would be good for Liverpool when you consider they have Charlie Adam etc but with the money they have or at least did spend last summer, they should be aiming higher than that. The dippers are mid table but not quite Clint Dempsey mid table.
He does good on Fantasy footie though.
He does good on Fantasy footie though.
Honestly Marcello after so long on here you should know by now that generally posters here like to mock/diss American/Irish/Northern Irish players because they know posters from those countries will defend them at all cost and it at times is very amusing
I'm just having a bit of fun with people. I know it goes around all the time. I'm quite aware few Americans can hack it at the very top level. But there are the few simpletons out there that really hate on the Americans for reasons beyond football.
Evertime just come back with his beardness, lalas. Debate over.
I have the dubious honour of being an expat that works in the "sawker" industry out here in the US. A few items of note: Firstly, football (soccer) is now the number one participation sport in the whole country. Meaning more people play soccer recreationally than any other sport. Secondly, the US has really good facilities. I run a large indoor soccer center which is nearly 100,000sq ft. of state of the art indoor turf fields. It strikes me that the kids in the youth clubs around the city where I live, are enjoying much better playing conditions than I did as a kid in England. I remember having to hoof the ball over the midfield because in the middle of winter the center of the pitch was essentially just a mud patch. The artificial surfaces here are much more durable and conducive to technical soccer.
With that said a huge majority of the coaches I meet out here (at the good youth clubs) are English, and they are instructing the kids in wildly outdated playing styles. Read, kick and rush and long ball soccer. Basically how we played the game in the 80's and 90's. There are of course notable exceptions in any club, but this seems to be the rule. Below this strata of extremely expensive private youth club instruction, it is down to volunteer parents to coach kid's soccer teams. I cannot tell you the amount of times I have met Dad's who are coaching their son's team, and who have never ever played the game. Indeed they don't even know the rules. It's scary.
I'm not English, so am I allowed to think Dempsey is decent but no more, and wouldn't want him anywhere near United?
He is pretty good, for an American.
'Fraid so. People often come to me for "expert" soccer advise. Seemingly my only qualification being that I'm English. I just tell 'em "Two banks of four, big strong lad up front. Hoof it long. Get stuck in."
God forbid the yanks get good at footie.
Only a matter of time.
expect the US to win the world cup within 12 years.
Howard had a great first season with us, after that Porto game it all came a bit undone for him I thought.
Apparently (according to Jol) he has told Fulham he doesn't want to play at the weekend, so you'd assume the deal won't take much longer. I'm surprised, I didn't expect him to pull a stroke like this.
sounds like Fulham is asking for teams to make a bid so they can buy a replacement befpre the window closes. Clint hasn't been training with the first team for a while I believe.
wHAT DEAL?