Classic Players - Bryan Robson: The greatest British midfielder ever?

[Joga Bonito]

BRYAN ROBSON - CAPTAIN MARVEL


Post 1 & 2 - Exclusive match compilations of Bryan Robson

Post 3 & 4 - Detailed Profile (Warning - It's long, so apologies for that, but I hope it's worth a read. Do watch the videos and skim through the profile and quotes if need be. Cheers)

Post 5 - Playing Style

Post 6 & 7 - Quotes

Please feel free to contribute and express your thoughts on Bryan Robson (from what you've heard or read about him thus far), your opinions on the footage above and if possible, share anecdotes or any first hand experiences.




Manchester United Footage


vs Liverpool 1987 English League



A fiery clash against Liverpool. Robson's ability to drive his side forward and quite simply, commandeer his side with his inspirational and leadership qualities is 'apparent' here.

It's quite unique watching Robbo's influence on United, in a holistic manner and there are times when you capture the influence of a playmaker in a compilation video but you can't quite do that with a player of Robson's ilk. Especially in this particular game, where the tempo of the game was frantic and players were just bouncing off each other, and you could 'see' the influence that Robson had over United and how Pool missed a figure like that (post Souness). One of the very few games where I really felt that 'inspirational influence/effect' as clichéd as it sounds.


vs City 1985 English League



Classic performance against City in the derby.


vs Barcelona 1991 Cup Winner's Cup Final



(Credit to @harms for this compilation)

Robson would prove to be the architect of the triumph and would play a crucial part in both of United's goals, with a typically all-action performance setting the tone for United against the much vaunted dream team.


vs Atletico Madrid 1991 Cup Winner's Cup



A classy and an authoritative display against Schuster's Atletico Madrid. United at one point, were on the verge of emulating their 1984 feats against Barca. The atmosphere was electric to say the least.


vs Everton 1985 FA Cup Final



A hard-fought tussle against Howard Kendall's Everton, who were in the hunt for a treble with the league and the European Cup Winner's Cup in the bag. Robson's commanding display would prove to be critical as 10 men United fought to a narrow one nil victory, courtesy of Whiteside's winner.


vs Liverpool 1989 English League







Other Footage (England and English League XI)


vs Rest of the World feat Maradona & Platini




Very few defensive midfielders can pull off a tackle that leaves Diego Maradona in absolute bewilderment (tackle is the thumbnail of the video, initially thought it was a foul too, sorry Robson ) and very few attacking midfielders possess both the technique and timing to pull off a raking pass to the flank and then score an almighty header, which leaves Rinat Dasayev, of all people, rooted to the spot. And then of course, there is Captain Marvel who could accomplish both of those feats in the same match



A brilliant match at Wembley in 1987-88 – Football League vs Rest of the World – to celebrate 100 years of the English Football League being formed in 1888. That day, against a team of the world’s best players – including Diego Maradona and Michel Platini – the 3 best performances were by United’s top drinking team, The Three Musketeers – Robson, Whiteside and McGrath. Football League won 3-0, with 2 goals from Robson and 1 from Whiteside and McGrath was given man of the match.

We won the game 3-0 and my performance against Maradona was widely acclaimed.

In the dressing room afterwards, I felt ten feet tall. The boys were full of it. 'Diego fecking who?'

Our other two stars of the day had been Bryan Robson and Norman Whiteside, sharing the three goals between them. It was quite a compliment to English football, but an even bigger one to United.

Fergie must have had very mixed feelings that day as he watched us swap jerseys with Maradona, Platini and Co. In a star-studded team that included the likes of Peter Shilton, Liam Brady, Peter Beardsley, Ossie Ardiles and Chirs Waddle, the three United boys stole the plaudits.

Yep, the three drinkers.

vs France 1982 World Cup



Really highlights his defensive game, always closing down players, disrupting play, winning balls, making life hell-ish for the opposition (although he does put in a few over-zealous tackles, which is understandable given how this was his first major international tournament) and he tops it off with 2 goals and could have very nearly had a hat-trick.


vs Netherlands 1988 Euros



Plays in a midfield duo with Glenn Hoddle, and plays the more disciplined role but still gets forward aplenty whilst providing the steel and discipline in midfield - all in all a proper midfield general performance.

England were desperately pinned against the wall by the excellent Dutch side, but he conjured up an equaliser out of nowhere, and completely changed the complexion of the game. Never stopped running and completely revitalised England and the very course of the game. Of course, MvB's eventual magic meant it was all pointless but it very much showed the resoluteness and defensive astuteness that he possessed. Most importantly the discipline to be the midfield glue and also be the talismanic influence for England.

 

[Joga Bonito]

vs France 1984 Friendly



I'll let the performance speak for itself - Robson in a midfield duo with Hoddle (no slight against him btw, just the silly and typical archaic set-up by England) against the carre magique of France with Platini at it's helm.


vs Netherlands 1988 Friendly




vs USSR 1984 Friendly

 

[Joga Bonito]

BRYAN ROBSON - CAPTAIN MARVEL

The signature barnstorming rampages deep from midfield to grab a late winner, the raking defence-splitting pass, the thumping header most would fear to attempt and, above all, the sheer indomitable spirit in concoction with the bloody-minded drive.

Bryan Robson – or ‘Captain Marvel’, as he was christened for his lung-bursting efforts for club and country – epitomised the creme de la creme in sporting endeavour. Captain Marvel was very much a one-man army at his peak and the omnipresent inspirational driving force behind the Red Devils and England throughout the eighties.



EARLY BEGNINNINGS - WEST BROMWICH ALBION


Bryan Robson began his career at West Bromwich Albion, where a catalogue of injuries and a lack of physical presence threatened to prevent his career from getting off the ground.

He was small, but you can sense when a young man has something. Looking at him, I thought he had character, an inner confidence

However, the youngster proved to be a tougher customer than many believed and recovered, bouncing back stronger after each set-back, bulked himself up and with his trademark determination, quickly established himself as a priceless part of the Albion team.

In his early days with West Bromwich Albion, three leg breaks inside a year threatened his future, but with great determination and resolve, which came to characterise the man, he somehow made a complete recovery.

Robson made his breakthrough in the 76/77 season at the first team level, and Albion had started reasonably well back in the top flight. However, in a game against ‘Spurs, he would incur a hairline leg fracture after attempting a tackle against centre forward Chris Jones. It was the sign of things to come. After having fully recovered and returning less than two months later, he'd unfortunately, re-fracture the same leg again in a reserve team game against Stoke City, which would sideline him yet again. Once more, Robson battled back to fitness and in December 1976, he was back again in the first team.

He began a prolonged run of games and scored the first senior hat-trick of his career against Ipswich Town in March 1977. His vibrant displays in the ever improving Albion team were rewarded with a call-up to the England Under-23 sides in mid-April. However, disaster struck again days before the international game, against Manchester City in the league, Robson suffered a broken ankle after a forceful tackle, and just like that, his season was over.

Not too many budding players could have ever fully recovered (both physically and psychologically) from such critical and back-to-back injuries, and then have gone on to forge a really successful career in top flight professional football. Not Captain Marvel.

An influential person in the dressing room, well-liked by the players, a great captain, and courage? Well, three broken legs, a broken collarbone, a hundred and one hamstring injuries, ankle injuries, and still played till 37 years of age! So that tells you something about the man. Oh, fantastic

Unfortunately though, this appalling run of luck came to epitomize Robson’s career. Robbo was an exceptional footballer, and a born leader, but he did have a regrettable propensity for injuries. Despite accruing his fair share of excruciating injuries such as broken bones, fractures, or dislocations due to his tigerish, combative and fearless approach towards the game, he never ever held anything back, giving it everything he had and always putting his body on the line without a moment's thought.

Robbo would soon become a fixture at the Hawthorns and grew from strength to strength, playing an influential role in the 78/79 season, as he led West Brom to a very creditable 3rd in the league, their highest position for over 20 years, whilst leading them to the quarter finals on the European stage.

I didn’t rate Robbo at first. All I could see was the permed hair that made him look like Kevin Keegan. At the time I thought that was all that they had in common. But I was wrong. I had to play him as centre half in an FA Cup replay early in 1978 — ironically against Manchester United — and he obliterated Joe Jordan. He was 19, and he was magnificent. A brain-rocking revelation. He never looked back after that.

At the start of the very next season, Bryan Robson took over the captaincy from John Wile. Robson’s form, which was exceptional during a season that didn’t go quite as well as expected for Albion, saw him deservedly win his first international cap in February 1980.

In his penultimate season at the Hawthorns, Robson began to establish himself as one of the league's finest midfielders with his 10 goals in 40 appearances proving critical to Albion's title challenge, although they eventually faded away in the league but managed a respectable 4th placed finish. By this point of Robson's career, bigger clubs couldn't help but take note of the fiery talents of Robbo. As too it'd seem, would be the case for the ebullient Atkinson, whose exuberant personality, and propensity for thrilling attacking football attracted the attention of the bigger clubs. In June 1981, Manchester United approached Albion and Atkinson, and in a matter of days the deal was done. Unknown to Bryan Robson at that time, Atkinson’s move to Manchester United would have big implications for himself some months later.

At the beginning of the 1981/82 season, speculation was rife that Robson would follow Atkinson to Old Trafford. Atkinson had asked the legendary Bill Shankly how much should he pay to acquire Robson’s services, and the craggy, redoubtable Scot replied;

Every penny that it takes, Ron, every penny that it takes!

Soon as I took the job, I wanted Robson. When I was at Albion he’d put in a transfer request, slipped a letter in my office when he’d come back from being away with England. So I called him in and he said, “Well man United are after me.” My reply to him was ‘I tell you now for nothing, the only way you’ll go to Man United is if I go there before you!’

The day I got the United job Robbo was out in Switzerland with the England team, and he’s on the ‘phone: “Gaffer, remember what you said?” Talk about managers tapping players up – he was tapping me!”

Bryan Robson had featured in 259 games and scored 46 goals, a highly impressive ratio given that he played a fair chunk of football filling in across the back four early on in his career, when new United boss Ron Atkinson came calling. As Dave Bowler claims on the official Albion website, 'There’s a sound argument that says Bryan Robson is the greatest footballer the Albion have ever produced' and Bryan Robson left West Brom a veritable legend.


MANCHESTER UNITED


United would pay a joint fee of around £2 million to bring both Robson and Remi Moses to Old Trafford in October 1981. The deal rated Captain Marvel at a then-record £1.5 million.

Some doubted Atkinson's wisdom, but Robson was destined to become one of the game's midfield greats.

I told Martin Edwards (then Manchester United chairman) when he signed Bryan Robson: ‘With this player you’re not taking a gamble, what you’re buying is pure gold'.

What Atkinson said that day to the media proved to be the perfect description of what Robson would be to Manchester United over the next 13 years there as a player. A revelation, who was set to establish himself as the one of the very best in Europe, as his four top 10 finishes in the prestigious ballon d'Or during the mid eighties would testify, and needless to say, Bryan Robson would go on to ingrain himself inextricably in the folklore of Manchester United, becoming the longest ever serving captain in the fabled history of the Red Devils.

It didn't take long for Robson to establish himself as the new darling of the Theatre of Dreams and capture the idolatry and adulation of the Old Trafford faithful; with his dashing runs into the box, eye for goal, superb tackling and never-say-die attitude never failing to thrill the Old Trafford crowd. His enthralling style of play and sheer will to win, in perfect consonance with the United ethos, quickly saw him handed the captain’s armband.

Having soon established himself as captain of both club and country, the first momentous game in Robson's budding United career beckoned against Brighton in the 1983 FA Cup Final. In a typical Roy-of-the-Rovers display, Robson led from the front and his double salvo landed United the FA Cup in a comprehensive 4-0 victory. In an unsurprising show of sheer selflessness, he was offered the chance of a hat-trick, but selflessly declined and let Arnold Muhren take the penalty instead, as the Dutchman had already been appointed as penalty taker before the match. It was all the more remarkable as there have only been 3 recorded hat-tricks in the much vaunted history of the FA Cup finals and Robson could have written his names in the history books. For all his renowned repute as a goalscoring match-winning talisman, Robson was as selfless and team-oriented as they came, always putting the team first and never being in it for personal glory or the individual medals.


Season 1983-84 would prove to be a memorable one for Robson, especially due to one historic match which would go down in the annals of United's European history – Manchester United vs Barcelona in the European Cup Winners’ Cup Quarter Final 2nd Leg at Old Trafford. Robson's performance was the stuff of legends and no other match would encapsulate Robson's relentless and unstinting drive, infectious charisma and odd-defying heroics in the face of crushing adversity, as that encounter against Barcelona would demonstrate. Whilst others would buckle and wilt under the cauldron of pressure and expectations, Robson would dig deep and spur himself on and galvanise his entire side in a manner that only he could.

United had lost the 1st Leg 2-0 in Barcelona, so needed an incredible and a nigh-on impossible performance at Old Trafford that night, which was exactly what they got, no small thanks to a mind-blowing and a colossal display from Robson. An awe-inspiring exhibition of unyielding authority and domination, where Captain Marvel willed his team on single-handedly and dragged his side from the jaws of defeats. United won 3-0 against a brilliant Barcelona side captained by Diego Maradona which also featured the sublimely gifted Bernd Schuster - two of the finest players in the world. But the star of that Manchester night was the heroic Bryan Robson who was quite simply at his swashbuckling best as United took the game to the Catalan giants, who simply didn't have an answer for Robson and co. Robson scored 2 goalsin what was probably the best performance of his esteemed career and one of the most memorable and historic European nights at Old Trafford.

How dare Manchester United consider selling this man

At the end of the match, some of United's fans rushed onto the pitch to greet their hero, Robson, then lifted him onto their shoulders and carried him off the pitch – a scene which has been played back many times in club histories and documentaries. Sadly Robson would cruelly miss both legs of the Semi-Final against Juventus with an injury, and United would be narrowly knocked out.

Although United could only manage a distant 4th finish in the league, Robson’s phenomenal performances had caught the attention of Juventus and other Italian giants, with speculation being rife that Robson would be sold for a princely sum of £3 million.

Atkinson decided to blast with both barrels, "Bryan Robson is going nowhere," he declared.

"There isn't enough money in Italy to buy him."

Not so long after that statement Atkinson, perhaps influenced by his board, took a rather different line, effectively putting a £3 million price on Robson's head. "We wouldn't consider anything less," he said.

That was seen by the United faithful as a distinct indication that the club wanted to sell Robson. Thousands signed a petition demanding they keep their idol. United were accused of being greedy.

Thankfully Robson would remain at Old Trafford for a long time to come, with a long term contract removing any uncertainty about his future.


The next season would be best remembered for amazing FA Cup performances from both Robson and United, in particular what became known as ‘Scousebusting’. In the Semi-Finals, United squared up against arch-rivals Liverpool at Goodison Park. The explosive encounter was drawn 2-2, with Robson grabbing a goal. The replay at Maine Road was one for the classics – United winning 2-1 with Robson nabbing the winner. At the end of the match, hordes of United fans invaded the pitch to celebrate with the players. Robson in particular, was again carried off the pitch by our fans as a tribute for his match-winning heroics - an all too familiar reoccurrence of the post-match celebrations against Barcelona just a year ago. The final would prove to be a hard-fought tussle against Howard Kendall's Everton, who were in the hunt for a treble with the league and the European Cup Winner's Cup already in the bag. Robson's commanding display would prove to be critical as 10 men United fought to a narrow one nil victory, courtesy of Whiteside's winner.





It was a game which proved that United in the eighties were more than a match for some of the best sides in Europe – Platini's European Cup winning Juventus, Howard Kendall's Everton and one of the best sides of the eighties in Liverpool.

However, United would once again, only manage a 4th placed finish and United were, without doubt, a fine team with excellent individuals - Ray Wilkins, Paul McGrath, Norman Whiteside, Kevin Moran, Mark Hughes, Jesper Olsen etc. Our 3 FA Cups and European Cup Winners Cup (1991) were testament to the quality of the side in the eighties.

Inexplicably, we just couldn't maintain our form in the league, for whatever reason and frequently had to contend with top 4 finishes, amidst some false dawns - the 10 game winning streak in the league during 1985, a classic example, the collapse actually originated from Robson's injury for what it's worth. We were just missing that extra bit of consistency to truly progress and take the next step.

 

[Joga Bonito]

FERGIE ERA


Enter Sir Alexander Chapman Ferguson, who'd transform the very landscape of English football and completely revolutionise Manchester United. However, the foundations, for the envisioned dynasty, had to be laid, and there was plenty of rebuilding that had to be done from the ground up - completely revamping the way the club was run, revitalising the squad and most crucially, instilling the winning mentality. In Bryan Robson, Sir Alex realised he had the ideal reference point to realise his vision - the embodiment of what Sir Alex himself was and a conduit of his ethos on the pitch.

At United, Bryan Robson was the club skipper when I appeared and there wasn't a player on the field who could match his determination and grit or his ability to read a game. He was a perfect captain and ticked all the boxes, I trusted him to make onfield adjustments to playing positions; he was also someone who would speak his mind, which was something I valued

Amongst all the footballers that I've managed, Willie Miller and Bryan Robson stood out as men for whom winning was almost as important as breathing

Not since Bobby Charlton had England or Manchester United seen a midfielder of Bryan Robson's quality.

He was an essential player in the rebuilding of a side that had lost its way slightly. Two more FA Cup winner medals followed during the 1980s but the foundations he helped lay set the club for one of its greatest periods of dominance in English Football history

After several gruelling years of transition and a severe overhaul on all fronts, United would finally become the dominant force that they'd always promised to be. Whilst the FA Cup win in 1990, Robson’s third as the skipper, offered some reprieve and was a sign of things to come; it was the European Cup Winners Cup triumph against Cruyff's Barca Dream Team which truly heralded United's return to the big stage.

5 Years after the Heysel ban, with English clubs being unaccustomed to the constantly-evolving European game? Check

Cruyff's Dream Team overwhelming favourites, coming into the game as the la liga champions, having already won the European Cup Winners Cup in 1989? Check

Opposition featuring stars such as Michael Laudrup and Ronald Koeman? Check

Cue Bryan Robson



(credit to @harms for the compilation)

Robson would prove to be the architect of the triumph and would play a crucial part in both of United's goals, with a typically all-action performance setting the tone for United against the much vaunted dream team.

United's triumph was every bit as special for the club and their fans as the successful conclusion to their European Cup campaign had been against Benfica at Wembley in 1968.

Nobody more than Bryan Robson, United's inspirational captain, deserved the honour of lifting the trophy that confirms English football's place at the pinnacle of European competition.

Robson, ably assisted by Hughes, led United as only Robson can. He drove them forward in wave after wave of attack that finally shook Barcelona out of their normally measured stride.

He may no longer be needed by England manager Graham Taylor - on this evidence it is hard to understand why - but Robson, who may be about to be offered a player-coach role, still typified everything that is good about the English game.

It was those qualities of determination and strength that Mr Ferguson thought would be decisive. His reading of the game was perfect. After 10 minutes of gentle sparring, United realised that though Barcelona were the Spanish champions, Johann Cruyff's side were no supermen. After that, United took control and never let go.

...

Robson, sensing the chance to dictate United's destiny, took command. His floated free-kick lured Busquets, stan- ding in for the suspended Zubizarreta, from his line and Bruce made sure that the error was punished.

The United defender, with a penchant for attacking, headed towards the vacant Barcelona net and Hughes left the matter in no doubt.

There are those who swear that Hughes is incapable of scoring a goal that is in any way flawed and, as if to underline that belief, his 75th-minute strike which ultimately secured the Cup for United was outstanding.

Robson was again the architect. He broke from midfield and spotted that Hughes had, not for the first time, escaped the attentions of his marker.

The pass was perfect and, as Busquets raced from his goal, Hughes danced around him.

Hughes had been driven wide but, there was to be no reprieve. Hughes' shot whistled into the corner of the net. The Cup was won.

Looking back over more than 400 games with Manchester United fills me with deep delight and few things have given me more pleasure in life than lifting the European Cup-Winner's Cup. That 1991 victory against Barcelona would rate as one of my finest performances for United.

With the European drought now over, the sights were set firmly on the domestic prize and it was a fitting climax to Robson's United career, when Captain Marvel jointly accepted the 1992/93 FA Premier League trophy with Steve Bruce as the curtain came down on an Old Trafford season - signalling the end of a 26-year wait for the game's ultimate domestic honour

No one was more deserving of that league title than Bryan Robson.


In total, Robson played 461 games and scored 99 goals for United, captaining United to an astonishing 3 FA Cups, 2 league titles and a European Cup Winners' Cup.

To top it all off, in 2011, he was voted the “Best Manchester United Player of All Time”

Robbo topped a poll of United legends from several different eras with 15 votes, ahead of George Best on 14 and Bobby Charlton, in third place, on 13. Then came Paul Scholes and Eric Cantona on 11 each, with Roy Keane the only other to reach double figures on 10.

“I am especially honoured being chosen by the lads,” said Robson, who made 461 appearances for the club over 13 years.

“To finish above George Best and Bobby Charlton! When you think of all the great players over the years at United and to finish above that duo – and Duncan Edwards – is a great honour.”

(Credit to Daniel Burdett and Tom Clare for fragments of the write-up)

THE THREE LIONS

Robson won 90 caps for England, featuring for the Three Lions in three World Cups and an Euros. His 26 international goals included a hat-trick against Turkey in 1984, and a strike after just 27 seconds against France in the 1982 World Cup, which was the second-fastest goal of the tournament’s final stages.

After an impressive 1st season at United, Robson would grab further headlines at the World Cup. It was a perfect start for England – in their 1st match, they played France and Robson scored the opening goal after only 27 seconds, which was then the fastest goal scored in a World Cup Finals tournament. England won the game 3-1, with Robson getting another, followed by winning their next 2 matches to top their group.



Although England exited the tournament undefeated, it was a successful tournament for Robson personally, and his reward for that record early goal was a specially inscribed gold watch. Typically though when receiving this, Robson as he always did- looked at the role of his team-mates saying

How do you split this amongst the England team?

A shoulder injury meant Robson could only feature in a single game in the 1986 World Cup whilst a foot injury curtailed his 1990 World Cup campaign. However, he would be the best player for England in the 1988 Euros, in which England did not do itself (or Robson for that matter) justice as they exited from the group stage.





Robson's 90 caps makes him the sixth most capped England player of all-time, 65 of them as Captain. Only two players, Bobby Moore and Billy Wright, have skippered England on more occasions. His exploits for England deservedly saw him being honoured as an inductee into the English Football Hall of Fame.

Untimely injuries robbed him of the chance to really make a mark on the world stage, ruling him out of the 1986 and 1990 World Cups, but Robson remains one of England's most inspirational captains. A dynamic midfielder who was equally adept in a defensive role as he was in marauding forward to score - as he demonstrated 26 times for England - he was a captain who led by example.

Widely regarded as the best midfielder of his generation, Robson would frequently inspire through the intensity of his performances and his leadership the monker 'Captain Marvel'. He was held in such high esteem that Sir Bobby Robson, manager of England for the 1990 World Cup, still believes they would have won the tournament had his namesake not suffered an Achilles strain in the second group match

Three times he went on to the great stage as the embodiment of English hopes. On the first occasion, in Spain in 1982, he had the impact of a wrecking ball. In Bilbao, a place which reserves its warmest welcome for warrior footballers, he destroyed the France of Michel Platini with two goals of ransacking authority

England, however, trailed out of the competition without losing a game and, in 1986 and 1990, Robson, the fabled Captain Marvel, was cut down by injury, the first time in Mexico when a protective harness on a dislocated shoulder failed to carry him through the lightest of challenges against Morocco.

Even then he was so loath to leave the theatre of football war, he refused the orders of Manchester United to return to England to start immediate treatment, preferring to encourage his team-mates on the road to their dismaying confrontation with the hand of Maradona and the feet of his genius

 

[Joga Bonito]

PLAYING STYLE


Far too often the term 'complete midfielder' or 'box to box dynamo' gets thrown about and lavished on players, who were dynamic and industrious but perhaps weren't as complete as they were made out to be. However, none embodied that title better than Bryan Robson. Captain Marvel, quite simply, had the lot.

He was very much an unholy amalgamation of several midfielders at once - he possessed the terrier-like tenacity and grit of midfield work-horses, disrupting the opposition and not giving them a moment of peace on the ball with his incessant pressing and fearsome tackling; his tactical acuity and reading of the game meant that he snuffed out fires in a manner not too dissimilar to the wily defensive midfielders; a sweet left peg which could dictate play like a crafty playmaker and of course, those fierce piercing runs from deep that were the trademark of any box to box midfielder worth his salt and last but not least, the sheer timing of his runs and anticipation skills that most poachers would have been envious of. Very much an enforcer, commander in chief, talismanic match-winning presence all rolled into one immense package. Not for nothing did England boss Bobby Robson refer to him as Captain Marvel.

He would win a crunching tackle on the edge of his own penalty area, feed the ball out to the wing or the nearest midfielder, pick himself up, go sprinting 80 yards forward and then arrive on the edge of the opposition penalty area with the same exquisite timing to crack another effort goalwards.

There have been plenty of 'offensive box to box goalscoring midfielders', such as Gerrard, Ballack, Lampard who married excellent goalscoring ability with grit and industry. How many of these midfielders would have been at home at centre-back, let alone as the holding midfielder? How many of them would have been favourably compared with Sir Bobby Moore of all people?

I actually think that his best position would have been in the middle of a back four, like Bobby Moore. I think he could have played that role in his sleep, because Bryan wasn't particularly quick but he could read it well. It was just that he was too valuable a player in midfield to be given a defensive role. He played left-back for me at West Brom, but Bryan could play in most positions.

He was one of the best trackers in the game - when the opposing midfield player is on the ball, to track him is to get after him, get a tackle in, win the ball back. Bryan was also a very good header of the ball, and very brave when attacking the ball in the air in general. He scored a lot of valuable goals that way. England would never be entirely out of it, as long as they had players like Bryan Robson.

Robson was the complete modern midfielder.

While at The Hawthorns, he featured in 259 games and scored 46 goals, a highly impressive ratio given that he played a fair chunk of football filling in across the back four early on in his career.

Such was his innate understanding of the game and the way it came so naturally to him on the pitch that he took to those roles with the same comfortable ease that he displayed when playing in his best position, the centre of midfield.

It’s a much used phrase, but Robson genuinely was a colossus. Supremely physically fit, he could go rampaging all over the pitch, the archetypal box to box player. But there was always purpose about his football, always a reason for where he was on the field unlike other, similarly energetic midfielders who display the characteristics of the headless chicken as they run here, there and everywhere, all over the place, but never in the right place except by accident.

That was never the case with Robson, a player who had an unerring knack for being in the right place at the right time, wherever it was on the pitch, be it breaking down attacks before they ever got near the Albion goal, collecting the ball from John Wile or Alistair Robertson in order to launch attacks, or arriving on the end of a cross into the box to plan the ball past another hapless goalkeeper.

Robson possessed the reading of the game and the tactical nous, to go hand in hand with the goalscoring prowess and the industry. He was very much a one-off with the sheer completeness of his game and in my honest opinion only Robson and Lothar Matthaus, had it all in their lockers as the complete midfielders - the talismanic match-winning aura, authoritative command in midfield, defensive nous and the sheer tenacity and temperament to go with it.

 

[Joga Bonito]

QUOTES

A miracle of commitment, a human marvel who pushed himself through every imaginable limit

the greatest talent that England has ever produced

He had that phenomenal engine to get from box to box, tackled like a vice, passed to perfection and scored bundles of goals. Just as importantly, whether it was England or United, Bryan had that will to win, that hatred of defeat, that leadership by example which are qualities of great captains

An entirely different type of midfielder was Bryan Robson, a player with tremendous dynamism and a real leader of his side. If anyone could head an attack it was Robson. He gave his team the extra spark. He combined the knack of taking of the ball from anyone with good footballing skills and an ability to score

Going further back, there was Bryan Robson, who I admired as a great fighter, and the legendary Eric Cantona. English football has always been in Spain’s retina

...surely by far the best midfielder in Europe...

His tackling, goal scoring and box to box presence were proof that you could be a great player without doing tricks. He wasn’t brilliant, but he was awesome.

As a midfield player, Robson had everything – goals, passing, tackling, and a remarkable work-rate. Captain Marvel for Manchester United and England and a true leader who was brave to a fault, injuries prevented him from reaching a deserved century of England caps. The outstanding British footballer of the 1980s who stuck around to inspire United’s re-emergence as England’s top club side under Sir Alex Ferguson. His namesake Bobby Robson swore by him during eight years in charge of the national team, and judges don’t come any shrewder than Bobby and Fergie

Bryan Robson was the best player in England but he was just one of the lads

The greatest compliment I can pay Paul Scholes is that he reminds me of Bryan Robson, the way he bombs into the box. But there was no one better at it than Robbo. He was the original action man, he used to throw himself into challenges, cover every inch of the pitch and then pop up in the box to score a goal. A truly wonderful player

From box to box, he was absolutely unbelievable. He had an engine that was second to none, and was aggressive in the middle of the pitch

He had good control, was a decisive tackler, passed the ball well and his combination of stamina and perceptive reading of movement enabled him to make sudden and deadly infiltrations from midfield into the opposition’s box

There is no doubt that Bryan Robson is the best central midfielder that this country has produced in my lifetime. He may not have had the vision of Glenn Hoddle or the sublime skill of Paul Gascoigne but he had everything else. Even I was scared to tackle him. He was the complete midfield machine. There has never been an English midfield leader like him.

THE MILLION DOLLAR QUESTION

He wasn't blessed with the most talented company during the Atkinson era. Just imagine how things could have panned out if he'd been surrounded by more talented peers - say, the true class of the late Nineties.

Put it this way - if Robbo had been starting for United when Ferguson arrived, rather than approaching the end of his career, he would have won so many more medals, and the legend of Roy Keane would possibly never have been written. As it was he suffered a less garlanded existence under the perennially underachieving Ron Atkinson

On so many occasions throughout his career, Robson took it upon himself to almost single-handedly drag his side to victory. Even at their peak in the '90s, I'm not sure Manchester United had an individual capable of doing this so effectively. Roy Keane showed glimpses of it, but Robson was almost an amalgam of Keane and Paul Scholes, as a tenacious midfielder who could pass, score, tackle and head a ball.

There were times when Robson's domination of midfield made it look like his side had fielded an extra man.

You can't help feeling that had he been in more illustrious company while wearing the red shirt, then he wouldn't have been under such pressure to win games single-handedly.

He can only have been better. What if more of Robbo's years at Old Trafford had coincided with the Fergie era? His would have been one of the most richly rewarded careers ever

If anything Robson was too brave for his own good, and there was always the suspicion that he pushed himself a tad too hard to make up for the deficiencies of others. It is total conjecture but one can't help wondering that, if he had been at his peak as part of the all-conquering United sides of the mid-to-late nineties, the injuries wouldn't have been as frequent. For the best part of the decade, the man was Manchester United in a way Roy Keane wasn't. Both, at times, carried the team, but Robson shouldered the heavier load.

INSPIRATIONAL LEADERSHIP

He is a truly amazing player, the bravest, most committed, strongest I ever had. He could do everything and did everything for England. He has heart and industry, he could win the ball, pass it, score goals, play off other people brilliantly, read a situation before it developed and could time his runs into the opponent's penalty areas to absolute perfection. He was a wonderful inspiration and could lift sides on his own efforts - not by what he said, but by what he did

A lot of people think of Captain Courageous, and he was brave and committed, but Bryan scored goals and his passing was very underrated. Brilliant at timing his runs into the box. When the going got tough, he’d be there. He’d let his players know if they weren’t doing their jobs and his will to win was way above most

He was the most incredible skipper. Off the pitch if there was anything – however small – that needed doing he would see to it on behalf of the team. On the pitch, he would walk through walls for us and could win games on his own.

Amongst all the footballers that I've managed, Willie Miller and Bryan Robson stood out as men for whom winning was almost as important as breathing

he was an inspirational leader. I was playing up at Old Trafford one year and he ran the show in that number seven shirt, steamrolling our midfield into submission. He was certainly the engine behind that United team

When assessing him, people ask, ‘What’s his greatest strength?’ Well, I think it’s his courage, his ability to score goals as a midfield player in the modern game, that make him outstanding itself. But he has a quality that you can’t coach in players, really, and that is timing. When two players go up for a ball in the air, a red jersey and another jersey, Bryan knows where it’s going to land. When a ball is coming to the back post, he knows he has got to be there. At the front post, when we’re attacking, he knows he has to be there. He just has this talent to time things, and be in the right place at the right time. That, apart from the courage and the influence he has in our team, makes it a great experience to have him as a player

My captain. If you’re going to have Gazza in centre-midfield you’re going to need someone in there to protect him, and Bryan Robson is the perfect foil. Driven, committed, tireless and brave.

You only have to study Bryan Robson to discover the right attitude. Isn't he a joy to behold, how he bursts himself to win games? Has there ever been a game where he has not tried his utmost to win or given everything?

he’d be all over the pitch, terrorising the opposition’s defence, menacing the midfield and smacking in goals. Bryan could do anything, he was Captain Courageous, and bloomin’ hell, he would often win games on his own.

 

[Joga Bonito]

BRAVERY & INJURIES

Robson was certainly too brave for his own good, maybe even too rash - he would throw himself into tackles from which most pros would shrink. Paradoxically, it was this element of the beast in Robbo that made him a beauty in the eyes of the supporters, but it was also his undoing. Having said that - and Robson himself has argued this point long and hard - he did compete in over 700 club games in a career spanning a remarkable 23 years from 1974 to 1997 and also played for England on 90 occasions.

His body didn't half take some batterings over the years, but he was moulded from tough stock. Never afraid of the battle, he led Albion and United from the front-line. To use another footballing cliche, he was a man you would have been glad to have in the trenches with you

Three broken legs by 1977 and yet his top class career with Albion, Manchester United, and finally Middlesborough would continue for another 20 years. Clearly, this was not just another run-of-the-mill footballer that we are talking about here - no, Robson was more of a superman as he defied the physical set-backs that would surely have spelt the end for most characters

Bryan Robson was a foreigner to danger. He would plough right into situations that others would avoid. It resulted in him spending a lot of time on the injury list, but it also made him an invaluable leader. Despite dislocating his shoulder several times during his career, he would regularly engage in a daily regime of one thousand press-ups.

I used to show players a photograph of Robson defending a corner. His eyes were almost glazed over; he had shut out the rest of the world, and the only thing he was concentrating on was how to make sure that the corner kick was defended properly

It's easy to accuse Robbo of being too gung-ho, but I don't think we'd have him any other way. A real blood-and-thunder hero for whom the name of Manchester United meant everything

When Robson plays football, he must expect to get hurt, because that’s him. When he sees a ball, irrespective of where it is on a football field, he automatically goes for it. Afterwards, he sometimes says, ‘I don’t really know why I went for it.’ And he’ll be asking that when he’s lying in the treatment room. But that is Robson, and that is the end of the story with him.

On the pitch he was a fantastic warrior, tackling, scoring, defending, great in the air, comfortable on the ball. His courage in the face of injury or any other adversity was bottomless

You could put him in any trench and know he'd be first over the top. He wouldn't think, Well, Christ, if I put my head up there it might get shot off

My mind was made up. Bryan Robson, I figured, would help keep him in line. He would be the stalwart for Paul (Gascoigne) to look up to. Bryan would encourage him on the field but also restrain him when he was losing sight of the needs of the team. He would tighten or loosen the leash. I had no idea, of course, that Bryan would just play a game and a half in Italy (1990 WC) but the theory was sound

IDOLATRY OF AN ENTIRE GENERATION

Mark Hughes and Bryan Robson had been my heroes. Robbo and Brucey were the most helpful and encouraging of the senior players. Robbo always sprang to my defense on the pitch, telling defenders that if they tried to 'do' me, they'd have him to answer to.

My favourite player of all time. I always remember when he used to play for West Brom and he had that curly daft hair, and I remember him running from box-to-box and he scored a header from about 18 yards out. For someone to come back from three broken legs and still play the way he played was phenomenal… Captain of England. The guy was phenomenal and everyone looked up to him as a player, a great bloke. He is a one-off. One of the greatest players of all time, for me. If I’d had end-to-end stuff like him, I like to think I’d have been even better

He was the ultimate midfielder. He got everywhere, scored goals and was a leader. He didn’t give you a second on the ball. If you got it, you knew Bryan would get stuck in to you

He was another hero of mine. I was in awe of Bryan Robson, even when I played alongside him! Without his injuries, he would’ve been in everybody’s best XI ever, because he do everything: he could get up and down, he could defend, he could pass, he could score goals.

An inspirational footballer. If he hadn’t had the injuries that he did, I think he would have eclipsed all records for midfielder players in appearances for England, and I think England might have won something

Robson was my idol. Right from the start I loved wholehearted players, which is why Robson was instantly my favourite. He epitomised everything I thought a United player should be. He flogged himself to the end of every game and gave blood, sweat and tears. He was a true leader. When he burst into the box, it was like his life depended on it. You could see it in his face and his running style. Everything was a fight and a battle

I was at Old Trafford the day Bryan Robson signed for United out on the pitch, an English record 1.5 million. I was only six but the image is fixed in my head. To think I would share a pitch with my hero thirteen years later, in his last league match

What Bobby Charlton was to my father, Bryan Robson was to me – and still is. But Bryan, as well as being great going forward, could tackle and he could defend. I could never do either of those things.

Bryan Robson had been an earlier England favourite. Captain Marvel played in midfield, just like me. When he wore white, I forgot all about the fact that Robson was a Manchester United player. I hated United, but I loved Robson. My dad came home one day to find me out in the street, playing football in my England shirt with Robson on the back.

Dad called me inside for a quiet word. What was I thinking? Wearing a Robson shirt - in Huyton? What would the neighbours think? Dad would put up with it behind closed doors, to humour me, and because he also knew how great Robson was for England. But I needed to keep my head screwed on outside. I nodded, changed and went back out into the street in Liverpool red. I still liked imagining I was Robson.

I got in the England squad and it was almost like hero worship with this fella. He carried England in the ’80s in my opinion. He could run further than anyone, he was the best player, he was all-action. The one commodity he had – he was unselfish. He put the rest of the group before himself – that’s the sign of a great player.

The key element is arriving in the right place at the right time. You need stamina, talent and natural timing. I used to watch and learn from people like David Platt and Bryan Robson

Bryan Robson, my sporting hero. I played in midfield as a kid and I wanted to be Bryan. He was always in the action and scoring goals. My dad even bought me a pair of the New Balance boots he wore too.

ANECDOTES

I remember playing against him for Leicester when I was in my early 20s, and Gordon Milne (manager) said was doing the organization for the corners before the game, and said ‘Gary, I want you to mark Bryan Robson.’

I said, ‘You want me to mark Bryan Robson?’

He said ‘It’s okay, we’ve watched him, he’s been hanging about just outside the box waiting for knock-downs. Just pick him up.’

I thought ‘He’s not going to be hanging about when he sees I’m marking him!’
Which was absolutely true.

We came out, and they had a corner after about 10 minutes. There he was, as he said, on the edge of the box, so I wandered over and stood next to him.

He asked ‘What’re you doing?’ I said ‘I’m, well, I’m marking you.’

‘Oh really?’

Needless to say, he didn’t stand around; went straight into the box, and boom! header, just over the bar, and I was splattered on the floor.

Fifteen minutes later, another corner. There he is, edge of the box, I’m standing next to him.

‘Still here?’ he asked. ‘I was told you’d hang around on the edge of the box.’

‘Yeah right!’

The ball came in, boom, I went in the back of the net, the ball went in the back of the net, and Bryan Robson went off celebrating

This Sheffield United right-back was kicking me in one game, giving me a few verbals and it affected me a little bit. I said to Robbo: ‘That right-back’s just said he’s going to break my legs.’

Robbo said: ‘Did he? You come and play centre-midfield. I’m going to play left wing for 10 minutes.’ We swapped positions.

Robbo soon came back: ‘Aye, you’re all right now, go back over’.

Problem solved! I had this mentality that if Robson was playing we’d never lose. We usually won. He had that authority. He’d tell me when I was not passing enough or dribbling too much. Him and Brucey were brilliant for me

I wanted a car of my own. By the time I passed my test I'd played twenty-five games for the first team, and there was an unwritten agreement that after twenty-five appearances you were a regular and qualified for a club car. At that stage I was getting 170 pounds a week and giving 40 pounds to my Mom for my keep.

So I went to Bryan Robson, the captain, and said, 'Listen, I can't really afford a decent car yet, I'm driving my step-dad's. Do you think the gaffer would let me have a club car?'

Bryan said, 'Of course he will, yeah. You deserve one, you're part of the team now, you're in the first team changing room.' Steve Bruce walked in and Robbo called him over: 'Giggs wants a club car, what do you think?'

Steve looks at me and says, 'No problem at all, just go and tell the gaffer.'

Great, I thought, and went and knocked on the gaffer's door. 'What's up, son?' he said. I'd told him I just passed the test and wanted a club car. He went absolutely nuts. 'Who the feck do you think you are? You've played a handful of games and you're coming in here with your fecking demands. I wouldn't give you a club fecking bike!'

Outside I could hear Robbo, Brucey and Incey and Choccy all splitting their sides laughing. They'd done me. They ripped into me for weeks after that. I got the car in the end though!

 

[charlton66]

Brilliant write up - but no. Sir Bobby Charlton is the greatest British midfielder ever.

I'd actually argue that he's the greatest British player ever.

 

[U99ted]

@Joga Bonito
Phew, when I saw this thread I thought you were going to convince us that Bobby Robson was the greatest British midfielder ever.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Brilliant write up - but no. Sir Bobby Charlton is the greatest British midfielder ever.

I'd actually argue that he's the greatest British player ever.

Fair enough, Sir Bobby is in my opinion, the greatest British player ever, but if we were to look at the deeper conventional box to box midfielders, and Britain's produced it's share of brilliant ones - Bremner, Edwards, Mackay, Souness, Keane, Giles etc.

@Joga Bonito
Phew, when I saw this thread I thought you were going to convince us that Bobby Robson was the greatest British midfielder ever.

Genuine typo and a mistake that Sir Bobby himself would have been proud of

 

[Stack]

Totally under rated by those who are from the EPL era till now.

 

[charlton66]

Fair enough, Sir Bobby is in my opinion, the greatest British player ever, but if we were to look at the deeper conventional box to box midfielders, and Britain's produced it's share of brilliant ones - Bremner, Mackay, Souness, Keane, Giles etc.



Genuine typo and a mistake that Sir Bobby himself would have been proud of

Robson (Bryan not Bobby ) gave what I consider to be the best individual performance I have ever seen in a game that I actually attended. His performance vs Barcelona in '84 was sublime. However, if I had to choose a conventional box to box midfielder to play in my all time United eleven it would be Roy Keane. Toss of a coin, but I would go with Roy.

As to the typo, you're right Sir Bobby (Robson not Charlton) would have been proud.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Robson (Bryan not Bobby ) gave what I consider to be the best individual performance I have ever seen in a game that I actually attended. His performance vs Barcelona in '84 was sublime. However, if I had to choose a conventional box to box midfielder to play in my all time United eleven it would be Roy Keane. Toss of a coin, but I would go with Roy.

As to the typo, you're right Sir Bobby (Robson not Charlton) would have been proud.

Fair enough, nothing much to separate either imo and obviously there is no right or wrong answer here.

Would be interested in hearing the opinions of unbiased neutrals @BeforeKeanetherewasRobson & @Barca84 on this issue

 

[sammsky1]

He was my hero as a boy and I had his poster on my bedroom wall. I remember when he signed from West Brom for Ron Atkinson so saw his entire Manchester United career albeit via majority BBC highlights and there was no Sky Sports or many live games back then.

Given the state of our team, the standard of English league football and the superiority of Liverpool throughout his career, I'd say he was the most influential player we've ever had and alongside Keane, the best ever midfielder I ever saw.

Its just a shame that Atkinson could not build a team worthy alongside him during his peak years , else he'd be globally feted like Dalglish, Maldini or Zidane.

 

[simonhch]

Great write up. Unbelievable player. Was a real hero for me growing up.

 

[Nik70]

Great thread. He was my idol growing up. He was so vital to United in the 80's and when he was missing due to injury you knew it would affect the team significantly. Keane was also a phenomenal player and a driving force for the team but he was surrounded by great players whereas Bryan virtually carried the team at times.

 

[The Mitcher]

@Joga Bonito
Phew, when I saw this thread I thought you were going to convince us that Bobby Robson was the greatest British midfielder ever.

Fair enough, Sir Bobby is in my opinion, the greatest British player ever, but if we were to look at the deeper conventional box to box midfielders, and Britain's produced it's share of brilliant ones - Bremner, Edwards, Mackay, Souness, Keane, Giles etc.



Genuine typo and a mistake that Sir Bobby himself would have been proud of

We're forgetting George Best, Northern Irish, was also British. Or does he count more as a forward than a midfielder despite being a winger.

 

[Joga Bonito]

We're forgetting George Best, Northern Irish, was also British. Or does he count more as a forward than a midfielder despite being a winger.

Definitely more of a wide-forward or a winger rather than a midfielder imo. However, Best was without a shadow of doubt, up there with the greatest of them, British or not - just as Sir Bobby Charlton and Law were too.

 

[The Mitcher]

Definitely more of a wide-forward or a winger rather than a midfielder imo. However, Best was without a shadow of doubt, up there with the greatest of them, British or not - just as Sir Bobby Charlton and Law were too.

Ah ok, I was just wondering. He did play centrally at times though. Saw him with the number 8 shirt a lot.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Ah ok, I was just wondering. He did play centrally at times though. Saw him with the number 8 shirt a lot.

Perhaps, @charlton66 @Mr. MUJAC will probably be able to properly answer that. Do think Best played slightly deeper at times but he was arguably at his best in a more forward position, as Mr MUJAC alludes to here.

Totally agree with the 1968 tactical formation. Wikipedia have got it totally wrong.

Many years ago I interviewed Dennis Viollet and also Ernie Ackerley who said that Busby was very influenced by Brazils 4-2-4 formation in the World Cup and they used to practice it in training. In 1958/59 and 1959/60 Busby often played a 334 as a variation of Brazils formation. Dennis told me that he, Albert Quixall and Bobby Charlton used to almost take turns at dropping deeper to make it a front four rather than a front five. They would then play with either Stiles/Setters/Nicholson or whoever the other midfielders were in a midfield two or three depending upon if they were attacking or defending.

Dennis said Matt was very tactically astute but never got any credit because everyone just thought he played off the cuff. In Charlie Mitten's book, he also commented on Busby's tactical strength particularly with the attacking playersin the team from the late 1940's.

I think the big question that I have never found the answer to is when did we start playing four at the back...seems to be around 1962/1963/1964.

In a report by Wilf McGuinness for the FA in 1967 (which was printed in the March 1967 FA Newsletter), Wilf mentioned that United had been playing a flat back four with Stepney, Dunne, Noble, Foulkes and Stiles with a midfield three of Crerand, Charlton and Best and a forward line of Herd, Law and Aston. David Herd was almost used as a right winger.

As George matured as a player he eventually took over from Herd on the right wing and his goals ratio improved dramatically once he was pushed up front.

The report went on to say that for many games in the 1966/67 season we actually played 4123 formation with Crerand slightly behind Charlton and Best in midfield but predominantly it was just a variation of 433.

 

[The Mitcher]

Perhaps, @charlton66 @Mr. MUJAC will probably be able to properly answer that. Do think Best played slightly deeper at times but he was arguably at his best in a more forward position, as Mr MUJAC alludes to here.

Very interesting.

 

[frank lee madeer..]

When I watch today's midfielders, I always expect more from them, I can be unrealistic in my expectations of them, I can't help it, it's what happens when you grew up watching Bryan Robson.
The modern trend is to pigeon hole a player into a category , attacking mid, defensive mid, box to box, etc. Bryan Robson excelled at them all.
He was the complete player, I fecking loved him.

 

[sammsky1]

Great thread. He was my idol growing up. He was so vital to United in the 80's and when he was missing due to injury you knew it would affect the team significantly. Keane was also a phenomenal player and a driving force for the team but he was surrounded by great player whereas Bryan virtually carried the team at times.

Fans who are too young to have seen him play won't appreciate just how true this was.

I think he carried us even more than Gerrard did Liverpool during his pomp.

 

[Raees]

Monumental effort there Joga.. will comment properly once I've had time to digest it all!

 

[KM]

Incredible post. Cheers @Joga Bonito

 

[Mr Smith]

Wow, I must find the time to work my way through this, thanks for providing!

 

[Dazzmondo]

I really like all these Classic Players threads. Always have fantastic content. Excellent job as has been the case for all of them

 

[Lord Megadrive]

Robson is one of my all time favourite players, had a few posters of him. I even rate him slightly above Keane if only because his attacking play was slightly better and more often than not he played with a hangover!

 

[sammsky1]

@Joga Bonito amazing trip down memory lane! Thanks for the effort!

 

[CassiusClaymore]

Absolute legend of a player and my hero growing up.

Was so happy that he was able to lift the premiership trophy before he retired because God knows he deserved it. As people have said he really was a one man team for most of the 80's.

Imagine him in his prime alongside Keane and Scholes in theirs. You can't picture how we would lose a game.

 

[Rory 7]

Amazing thread. Fair play.

 

[Rozay]

Hard to make a proper comparison for me. I often hear how great some players were from previous generations, however, I am usually left underwhelmed when I watch older footage. The game has just changed too much, and my general feeling is usually 'he could never do that in today's game'. Opponents, defenders - they just often look so rubbish.

Even players I grew up watching. When I watch back games with the likes of Keane or Cole etc - I just can't get past how uncompetitive most of the footy looks. Of course, it is all relative. But watching games even from 15-20 years ago on MUTV, the standard looks too low for my liking. The 'poorer' teams in the PL are definitely a lot better now than the Sheffield Wednesdays and Crystal Palace's I grew up watching in the 90s, and when I watch our routine 5-0 victories back, can't help but take a little bit off them. Again, I know relativity is a factor, but financially, the playing field was far less balanced back then anyway, which automatically made our players much better than their opponents majority of the time.

 

[barmyarmy]

Players like him that make our club very special the desire to win at any cost and giving everything for the badge on chest, Captain Marvel. Loved the car part of Giggsy though.

Brilliant thread mate @Joga Bonito the effort you put in these type of threads is amazing truly deserves a special mention on CAF.

 

[MUFC OK]

Was before my time so haven't seen much of him, heard he was an all action midfielder and one of if not the greatest captains we've had. But in response to the title, Bobby Charton will always be the greatest British midfielder, his story and achievements will never be surpassed.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Thanks for the kind comments, much appreciated.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Was before my time so haven't seen much of him, heard he was an all action midfielder and one of if not the greatest captains we've had. But in response to the title, Bobby Charton will always be the greatest British midfielder, his story and achievements will never be surpassed.

Be sure to check out the compilations above on the first two posts, if you haven't done so already.

Players like him that make our club very special the desire to win at any cost and giving everything for the badge on chest, Captain Marvel. Loved the car part of Giggsy though.

Brilliant thread mate @Joga Bonito the effort you put in these type of threads is amazing truly deserves a special mention on CAF.

Must have been something else that dressing room with personalities like Robson, Ince, Hughes, Bruce etc with Fergie there to top it all off.

Hard to make a proper comparison for me. I often hear how great some players were from previous generations, however, I am usually left underwhelmed when I watch older footage. The game has just changed too much, and my general feeling is usually 'he could never do that in today's game'. Opponents, defenders - they just often look so rubbish.

Even players I grew up watching. When I watch back games with the likes of Keane or Cole etc - I just can't get past how uncompetitive most of the footy looks. Of course, it is all relative. But watching games even from 15-20 years ago on MUTV, the standard looks too low for my liking. The 'poorer' teams in the PL are definitely a lot better now than the Sheffield Wednesdays and Crystal Palace's I grew up watching in the 90s, and when I watch our routine 5-0 victories back, can't help but take a little bit off them. Again, I know relativity is a factor, but financially, the playing field was far less balanced back then anyway, which automatically made our players much better than their opponents majority of the time.

Fair enough. I'd like to disagree with your comment on the playing field being less competitive though. Whilst it can be argued that the poorer sides are better now, back then the playing field seemed more even and relatively more balanced to me, as the divide between the 'bigger' clubs and the 'smaller' ones was ,in my opinion, lesser than the gap now.

I'd say there is a more defined and pronounced hegemony of rich top tier clubs in this era, who are only pulling away further from the chasing pack on the back of their commercial successes and revenue.

Anyway, I'd like to recommend a few full games of Robson, which you might find interesting for the tempo and competitiveness on show. The game against Pool in 1987 has to be one of the highest tempo games that I've ever watched. Ridiculous pace and I seriously don't know how they were able to maintain it throughout the entire match. Good quality football too if you ask me.

Spoiler

 

[Rozay]

Fair enough. I'd like to disagree with the playing field being less competitive though. Whilst it can be argued that the poorer sides are better now, the playing field seemed more even and relatively more balanced to me, as the divide between the 'bigger' clubs and the 'smaller' ones was imo, lesser than the gap now.

I'd say there is a more defined and pronounced hegemony of rich top tier clubs in this era, who are only pulling away further from the chasing pack on the back of their commercial successes and revenue.

Anyway, I'd like to recommend a few full games of Robson, which you might find interesting for the tempo and competitiveness on show. The game against Pool in 1987 has to be one of the highest tempo games that I've ever watched. Ridiculous pace and I seriously don't know how they were able to maintain it throughout the entire match. Good quality football too if you ask me.

Spoiler

Cheers, I will try and take the time to research more. I just imagine my views will be further re-enforced the further back in time I go, and watching early post-Robson games are bad enough.

It's true that the rich establishment is tighter now, but I don't think the gap is wider. Chances of an upset in the modern game are far higher than in the mid- 90s.
Even watching shows on MUTV like 'all Solskjaer goals' or 'all Scholes goals', I see some embarrassing stuff. That said, perhaps I'm overrating today though.

I would love to see more of Robbo and McGrath though, although I generally find it hard to compare across generations. Very few past players I watch give me the impression they would be as good in the modern era. Even as recently as Becks, I strongly doubt he'd be a top PL winger today. Left- backs would deal with him easily.

 

[charlton66]

Cheers, I will try and take the time to research more. I just imagine my views will be further re-enforced the further back in time I go, and watching early post-Robson games are bad enough.

It's true that the rich establishment is tighter now, but I don't think the gap is wider. Chances of an upset in the modern game are far higher than in the mid- 90s.
Even watching shows on MUTV like 'all Solskjaer goals' or 'all Scholes goals', I see some embarrassing stuff. That said, perhaps I'm overrating today though.

I would love to see more of Robbo and McGrath though, although I generally find it hard to compare across generations. Very few past players I watch give me the impression they would be as good in the modern era. Even as recently as Becks, I strongly doubt he'd be a top PL winger today. Left- backs would deal with him easily.

Comparing across generations is a fools errand to me unless you do a relative comparison. Saying a player from the 60s, 70s, 80s etc... is not as good as those playing today is disingenuous since those bygone players did not have access to today's training methods, fitness regimes, understanding of diet and so much more. Even the pitches that today's players play on are far superior. IMLTHO, the only way to compare a Messi with a Maradona or a Ronaldo with a Best is to look at how each of these players compared versus their peers at the time rather than comparing them against each other. Saying a player from 40 years ago couldn't cut it today is worthless in the extreme because these days they're essentially playing a different game.

 

[Rozay]

Comparing across generations is a fools errand to me unless you do a relative comparison. Saying a player from the 60s, 70s, 80s etc... is not as good as those playing today is disingenuous since those bygone players did not have access to today's training methods, fitness regimes, understanding of diet and so much more. Even the pitches that today's players play on today are far superior. IMLTHO, the only way to compare a Messi with a Maradona or a Ronaldo with a Best is to look at how each of these players compared versus their peers at the time rather than comparing them against each other. Saying a player from 40 years ago couldn't cut it today is worthless in the extreme because these days they're essentially playing a different game.

I'm aware of this. Still, even the question of relativity is no exact science. I made a thread about the impossibility of cross-generational player comparisons a couple of years back to state the same as you did.

 

[Joga Bonito]

Cheers, I will try and take the time to research more. I just imagine my views will be further re-enforced the further back in time I go, and watching early post-Robson games are bad enough.

It's true that the rich establishment is tighter now, but I don't think the gap is wider. Chances of an upset in the modern game are far higher than in the mid- 90s.
Even watching shows on MUTV like 'all Solskjaer goals' or 'all Scholes goals', I see some embarrassing stuff. That said, perhaps I'm overrating today though.

I would love to see more of Robbo and McGrath though, although I generally find it hard to compare across generations. Very few past players I watch give me the impression they would be as good in the modern era. Even as recently as Becks, I strongly doubt he'd be a top PL winger today. Left- backs would deal with him easily.

Good to know and do let me know if you want more links to full matches of Robson and McGrath, I'll be more than happy to help.

EDIT: That goes for everyone, feel free to PM me