[Ekeke]

A reminder that this is the investment in players we've done over the past few windows that Chris Smalling hasnt played next to yet

Thats £120 million in defensive reinforcement and £80 million in attacking midfield upgrades

So once again its pretty ridiculous to go on about the past, yet compare him to Maguire or Lindelof who have had the advantage of all this money spent around them on better players than Smalling has played with.

 

[EwanI Ted]

How else do you explain Roma scoring plenty more goals than United, but with Smalling in defense - whereas United scored a bunch less with ball playing CBs?

The only solution is "Well, Roma's attacking players are better so it didnt matter that Smalling was holding them back compared to Lindelof and Maguire".

As I said myth gone, if they can do it we can do it because our attacking players are better.

I dont think I'm clear here. Are you saying they scored more... because of Smalling?

 

[ManU Irish]

I hope he doesn't play him tonight with the B team. Our second team is so bad he wont have a chance to shine. he deserves a chance in the first team.

This is the best team we can put out at the moment and he should play the next game in the PL.

De Gea
AWB
Smalling
Maguire
Shaw
Van De Beek/ Matic/ Fred/ Mctominay (depending on the opponent)
Pogba
Bruno
Greenwood
Matial
Rashford

Paul Pogba surely cannot be in the best team that we can put out at present. The 3 in the middle for Saturday needs to be Bruno, Van De Beek and one of Fred/Matic or Scott. Pobga needs to sit on the bench until he decides whether he is going to bother trying or not.

 

[Bebestation]

Could it be possible that the people who dont rate Smalling in comparison to the rest of the defenders at our disposal also rate ball playing abilities too much in current football or atleast to the degree that it sorts more of our problems than it actually does in comparison to what we get?

Just like Southgate & Ole they get rid of smalling for the importance of ball playing abilities in the back line.

 

[AltiUn]

A reminder that this is the investment in players we've done over the past few windows that Chris Smalling hasnt played next to yet

Thats £120 million in defensive reinforcement and £80 million in attacking midfield upgrades

So once again its pretty ridiculous to go on about the past, yet compare him to Maguire or Lindelof who have had the advantage of all this money spent around them on better players than Smalling has played with.

Be interesting to see if we give him another chance after Lindelof's disasterclass. Takes a big man to swallow their pride, let's see if Solskjaer's willing to do so.

 

[Ekeke]

I dont think I'm clear here. Are you saying they scored more... because of Smalling?

No. They scored more despite playing with Smalling, so for all those years posters whining about needing ball playing CBs to solve our attacking football because Smalling ruins it were obviously wrong. You can play much better attacking football and score a lot more goals than we were because midfielders and attackers performing well dont need their CB setting them up. It was just an excuse for poor form from our attacking side of the team.

 

[EwanI Ted]

No. They scored more despite playing with Smalling, so for all those years posters whining about needing ball playing CBs to solve our attacking football because Smalling ruins it were obviously wrong. You can play much better attacking football and score a lot more goals than we were because midfielders and attackers performing well dont need their CB setting them up. It was just an excuse for poor form from our attacking side of the team.

The idea that people blamed Chris Smalling for our years of attacking woe is a strawman of your own creation.

 

[Ekeke]

The idea that people blamed Chris Smalling for our years of attacking woe is a strawman of your own creation.

No its reading this forum, you should try it sometime. And it started before 2018 so before your birth here

 

[EwanI Ted]

No its reading this forum, you should try it sometime. And it started before 2018 so before your birth here

Ive been here much longer than that friend. I make new accounts every year or two.

 

[RDCR07]

Why the feck do we want to get rid of him so badly when he is better than everyone we got and when we haven’t brought in any reinforcements? feck playing out from the back. Lindelof can play out from the back and where has that gotten us? We should be itching to get rid of Jones and Rojo. Not Smalling. Especially after the season he just had.

 

[Vault Dweller]

A back 3 of

Maguire - Smalling- Blind
​

Would have something I'd really have enjoyed to watch when we play that formation. Reminds me of some of the old italian back 3's that had great ball playing abilities. I'd reckon it would have been heavily balanced for us to play a proper attacking team in front of them and making crisp penetrative passes.

I really hate that Jose sold Blind.

So do I. It's one of the decisions the club made that really annoyed me at the time and still does. I love Blind and he could have still offered loads to the squad. Ridiculous really.

 

[Isotope]

That's another thing with Ole. You've always wondered if he's been utilized players at his disposal, to the best of they can.

 

[He'sRaldo]

That's another thing with Ole. You've always wondered if he's been utilized players at his disposal, to the best of they can.

Good point.

Sometimes it seems like at this club, every manager needs to spend a fortune their personal first 11 and 5 backups, before they can be evaluated.

 

[Ekeke]

Ive been here much longer than that friend. I make new accounts every year or two.

What were your accounts before?

 

[Ekeke]

That's another thing with Ole. You've always wondered if he's been utilized players at his disposal, to the best of they can.

I think he's been less guilty of it than Mourinho and LVG, but I dont think we can say he's got absolutely 100% out of our players or at least not for long periods. For over half last season we werent very good, and after he came in he had that great run and then a really bad one. So when he's up we can say he's getting somewhere near the best of our players, but he has had these low periods too where theres no way hes getting the most.

 

[11101]

Could it be possible that the people who dont rate Smalling in comparison to the rest of the defenders at our disposal also rate ball playing abilities too much in current football or atleast to the degree that it sorts more of our problems than it actually does in comparison to what we get?

Just like Southgate & Ole they get rid of smalling for the importance of ball playing abilities in the back line.

I rate composure extremely highly. I don't care too much about running forward with the ball or playing long passes, or whatever else most people think being good on the ball means. There's a lot more to it than that. What matters far more is composure on (and off) the ball, and how that transmits to the players around them. You can't have a defender at the top level who panics when put under pressure, or backs off receiving a pass because there's an opponent closing them down. Not only does it make them poor players, it transmits to the whole team and the opponent. Maguire is excellent for keeping his composure. Smalling is probably the worst we've ever had.

 

[EwanI Ted]

What were your accounts before?

The reason I change user is to avoid sharing too much information that could be identified as the real me. It would defeat the object to then identify them the same person.

 

[No Idea For Nickname]

The reason I change user is to avoid sharing too much information that could be identified as the real me. It would defeat the object to then identify them the same person.

I got it. First and last letter of you nickname.
Hi Ed :wave:

 

[EwanI Ted]

I got it. First and last letter of you nickname.
Hi Ed :wave:

Shit. Rumbled.

 

[Ekeke]

The reason I change user is to avoid sharing too much information that could be identified as the real me. It would defeat the object to then identify them the same person.

The most likely and frequent reason someone changes their username is because they got banned. I dont think you were being stalked for your amazing football opinions

 

[He'sRaldo]

I rate composure extremely highly. I don't care too much about running forward with the ball or playing long passes, or whatever else most people think being good on the ball means. There's a lot more to it than that. What matters far more is composure on (and off) the ball, and how that transmits to the players around them. You can't have a defender at the top level who panics when put under pressure, or backs off receiving a pass because there's an opponent closing them down. Not only does it make them poor players, it transmits to the whole team and the opponent. Maguire is excellent for keeping his composure. Smalling is probably the worst we've ever had.

This is a valid point.

The issue is composure can come naturally yes, but it's also supposed to come from assuredness in team structure and passing options. It's no surprise that under an ultra-possession manager like LVG, Smalling was more composed than under Mourinho, because LVG would always make sure the structure and options are there to alleviate pressure, retain possession, and make decison-making more automated. So while a highly composed player is a plus at CB, it's not a requirement if the team is drilled to make decisions quickly and efficiently.

And the other issue is that natural composure at the expense of defensive nous is not worth it I feel. Especially in an extreme case like Smalling vs Lindelof.

 

[Ekeke]

I rate composure extremely highly. I don't care too much about running forward with the ball or playing long passes, or whatever else most people think being good on the ball means. There's a lot more to it than that. What matters far more is composure on (and off) the ball, and how that transmits to the players around them. You can't have a defender at the top level who panics when put under pressure, or backs off receiving a pass because there's an opponent closing them down. Not only does it make them poor players, it transmits to the whole team and the opponent. Maguire is excellent for keeping his composure. Smalling is probably the worst we've ever had.

Thats you feeling nervous not Smalling or his teammates.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Honestly I would just keep him now. Put him alongside Maguire in the next PL game.

 

[EwanI Ted]

The most likely and frequent reason someone changes their username is because they got banned. I dont think you were being stalked for your amazing football opinions

Could be. But in my case its just tinfoil hat paranoia.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Could be. But in my case its just tinfoil hat paranoia.

Ironic, because it's actually very easy for the system to flag you for creating multiple accounts, so that means you must have went through some lengths to conceal yourself.

 

[EwanI Ted]

Ironic, because it's actually very easy for the system to flag you for creating multiple accounts, so that means you must have went through some lengths to conceal yourself.

Hardly. Edit: though its probably time anyway.

 

[Bebestation]

I rate composure extremely highly. I don't care too much about running forward with the ball or playing long passes, or whatever else most people think being good on the ball means. There's a lot more to it than that. What matters far more is composure on (and off) the ball, and how that transmits to the players around them. You can't have a defender at the top level who panics when put under pressure, or backs off receiving a pass because there's an opponent closing them down. Not only does it make them poor players, it transmits to the whole team and the opponent. Maguire is excellent for keeping his composure. Smalling is probably the worst we've ever had.

I never saw Smalling falling around all over the place under pressure. Sure I can see him recognize his inability and avoid certain situations through his own awareness of a certain lack of his own ability per se - however that's where Maguire steps in because Maguire plays in the direct opposite way to Smalling. They cover each others weaknesses.

Smalling isnt exactly Vidic either on the ball. Theres still so many physical defenders playing in the league and they aren't ball playing CB's either.

It's like this whole league plays with Gegenpressing or something when its really not done that much to the be the reason that these ball playing CB'S are played - they are played for the ability to pass.

I personally dont see Smalling's slipping up under pressure all the time like he's this John Terry like player under water.

Maybe I'm wrong - however what I do know is that if Smalling loses the ball then Smalling is the most likely in our whole squad to win that ball back anyway.



Look at 1.50 Bailly's poor ball and theres pressure from the opponent but its Smalling that gets in dirty to recover the whole thing.

Right now we dont have a single recovery defender like him - to me that is more important than ball playing or his composure under pressure which in a recovery dimension his defending is actually really good.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Who is this player ? buy him !

 

[He'sRaldo]

I never saw Smalling falling around all over the place under pressure. Sure I can see him recognize his inability and avoid certain situations through his own awareness of a certain lack of his own ability per se - however that's where Maguire steps in because Maguire plays in the direct opposite way to Smalling. They cover each others weaknesses.

Smalling isnt exactly Vidic either on the ball. Theres still so many physical defenders playing in the league and they aren't ball playing CB's either.

It's like this whole league plays with Gegenpressing or something when its really not done that much to the be the reason that these ball playing CB'S are played - they are played for the ability to pass.

I personally dont see Smalling's slipping up under pressure all the time like he's this John Terry like player under water.

Maybe I'm wrong - however what I do know is that if Smalling loses the ball then Smalling is the most likely in our whole squad to win that ball back anyway.



Look at 1.50 Bailly's poor ball and theres pressure from the opponent but its Smalling that gets in dirty to recover the whole thing.

Right now we dont have a single recovery defender like him - to me that is more important than ball playing or his composure under pressure which in a recovery dimension his defending is actually really good.

Lindelof in those clips

 

[Stacks]

Could it be possible that the people who dont rate Smalling in comparison to the rest of the defenders at our disposal also rate ball playing abilities too much in current football or atleast to the degree that it sorts more of our problems than it actually does in comparison to what we get?

Just like Southgate & Ole they get rid of smalling for the importance of ball playing abilities in the back line.

I agree whole heartedly and neither England nor United play great on the deck football. its pretty basic stuff. The passing out of the back is not even utilised to a high level. Anyone can make a pass when not under pressure or they have space. Maybe it helps with out counters

 

[Zlaatan]

But I'm not am I- I'm bringing all of the CB'S in the squad and Smalling has proven to be better than every single one.

I dont see why we should be selling Smalling because he cant play a pass across the field when none of our CB'S in the squad can and at the same time not a single one can defend better than him or are regularly even fit enough to try.

It's like we have Upamecano or whoever everyone else wants at the club already but we dont. We can look at all the players in the world at awe but we must balance the books at what's at our disposal aswell - that's not been done with our CB'S.

Because it's not just about his passing, it's about his first touch, knowing what he's going to do with the ball before he recieves it and then having the technical ability to do that while under pressure. A lot of people doesn't seem to think Smalling is a good fit in a team that insists on playing out from the back, including Ole and Southgate, and it's probably because he struggled so much with the ball even before teams started pressing the way so many do today.
Go to AWB's performance thread and see what people are saying about his ability on the ball, I'm sure he's not any better than Smalling at long passes but the way he panics and loses the ball while under pressure is a big issue and chances are that Smalling would have the same problem. Having them play together in a league where more and more teams chooses to press high just amplifies it all as well.

They're both fine on the ball. Roma were more productive going forward than we were with our "ball playing CBs"

First off, we have very different definitions of fine. Secondly, Roma plays with different players, different tactics in a different league which makes any comparison between goals scored and especially the impact the CB's style of play has on those goals anecdotal at best, and that's being very kind.

 

[FrankDrebin]

Personally I would play Smalling (with Maguire) against the lower teams who are more likely to go physical and play Lindelof against teams who play a more passing technical game, which he's done well in to be fair.

Use certain players for different scenarios, like SAF so brilliantly done.

 

[11101]

Thats you feeling nervous not Smalling or his teammates.

I'm not sure about that, considering he's played a full 90 minutes in 9 of our 10 biggest losses over the last decade. Lindelof was CB for just one of those games. We've been properly embarrassed numerous times with him in defence.

 

[Dve]

Just forget about Smalling ever playing for United again. If there was just the smallest chance, he probably would be training with the squad. United are just waiting to see if there are any higher bids coming in - which is fine - but he will go for whatever we can get.

 

[Real Madras]

Why the feck do we want to get rid of him so badly when he is better than everyone we got and when we haven’t brought in any reinforcements? feck playing out from the back. Lindelof can play out from the back and where has that gotten us? We should be itching to get rid of Jones and Rojo. Not Smalling. Especially after the season he just had.

I completely agree with you. I rate Smalling much higher than our CB’s including Maguire. Lindelof should be 4th choice behind Maguire, Smalling and Bailly.

I for one can’t stand the notion that you need to have two ball playing CB and a CDM that can pick the ball up from deep. Maguire should be the ball playing CB and Smalling should be the cover. He’s an out and out defender and in his flipping prime when we can’t even secure a deal for a LB from Porto.

I read Smalling is training alone as well which is just so bizarre considering our weakness is in defence and he’s fit off the back of an impressive season in Italy.

 

[A-man]

...

I read Smalling is training alone as well which is just so bizarre considering our weakness is in defence and he’s fit off the back of an impressive season in Italy.

In what way did he impress on you in Italy?

 

[Real Madras]

I want my defenders to defend and my attackers to at

In what way did he impress on you in Italy?

I watched a few of his games and I thought he was solid. Didn’t make any mistakes and scored some important goals for them. He is better than Lindelof but he can’t play the ball out from the back. I’m happy for him to pass it to Maguire to do that. Vidic wasn’t a ball playing CB but he was pretty solid defensively. (Using vidic as an example that you don’t need to be great on the ball to be effective).

 

[PitTon]

Under LVG who play possession football, Smalling was brilliant. He stood out and organized the back line, very much like a leader. He was aggressive when needed and had amazing long passes to the left wing as well.

I wonder what actually happen that makes Ole decided not to include him in his plan. Is it just because of his passing ? If it is the reason then I'm not so convinced with our other defenders passing either over last course.

Let's say he has his weaknesses, but so does Lindelof. As we experienced VL performance last season I would rather have Smalling because VL so called good passing, bring the ball out of defense did not show a lot of time or did not have any big effect on the way we play. However, his weaknesses especially his lack of physical attributes have cost us some important goals and he has not changed after all those years at United.

 

[Shimo]

For his contribution and professionalism through the years, hope he gets the move to a manager that values him but, for our sake, I hope no deal materializes, at least if we don't sign a top CB. Given a chance think he'd easily hold the position until someone that is actually better can be brought in.

 

[starman]

He must be brought in from the dark, as a pure defender goes, he is the best we have got, forget about playing out from the back, getting back to basics is what we need..