Vidic kept it simple himself and Rio cut out some of his "ball playing ability" after he got to United. He tried to dribble the ball into midfield in his first season and got robbed a few times and then we didnt see much of it after that. Obviously Rio's passing was obviously still levels above Smalling. Vidic's was similarish. I dont believe that a combination of Maguire and Smalling is much different to what Vidic and Rio had.
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Vidic kept it simple himself and Rio cut out some of his "ball playing ability" after he got to United. He tried to dribble the ball into midfield in his first season and got robbed a few times and then we didnt see much of it after that. Obviously Rio's passing was obviously still levels above Smalling. Vidic's was similarish. I dont believe that a combination of Maguire and Smalling is much different to what Vidic and Rio had.
I love this idea that if someone disagrees with you, they obviously haven't watched the player at all. As opposed to them simply having a different opinion.
Out of interest I searched his 2015-16 performance thread for the word "passing". Seems even back then it was pretty much unanimous that his passing was poor and his weakest point.
I'm not saying he's Paul Scholes, and he doesn't have to be, as a centre back. He's supposed to stop the other team from scoring, and he's very good at that. Passing wise there isn't much between Lindelof and Smalling, but defending wise it isn't even close. Lindelof is like an amateur in defending compared to Smalling. And defending is a centre backs most important job.
Search the whole site for the past 10 years, you'll find the majority tend to get things wrong
Yes, his job is to stop people scoring... that is a job of a defence, but the way Ole wants to play is to build from the back, losing the ball due to lack of composure will cost us goals.
There isnt much between Lindelof and Smalling's passing? So Ole and all the other coaches who watch them daily don't know what they are looking at right?
We have one of the best defences in the league with Lindelof in the defence.
He is going to Roma for a reason and not any of the big clubs.
Yes he kept it simple but you are missing the point a bit. I am not saying we need a playmaker CB, simply one who doesn't need to turn their entire body to pass in a different direction, who could release passes quickly through their first touch if required, at a nice pace and onto the feet of their teammates, and is able to turn into different direction if someone is pressing them from one direction. These little things dictate how well we can transition our attacks. In that sense Smalling has huge deficiencies atleast in my perception.
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And in my opinion if you're a midfielder or attacker and think thats the reason why you arent doing well in attack, you're a bad midfielder or attacker. Roma attacked with ease last season from the midfield and attack. Are their players better than ours?
I see people don't know the difference between being a good passer and being good on the ball. Smalling is ok at passing, he is terrible on the ball.
He is also not the brick wall defender some make him out to be. Great 1v1 but easily fooled by clever movement and not great with his positioning.
There's a reason no manager has ever fully backed him here and he's now at a Serie A also-ran.
He is also not the brick wall defender some make him out to be. Great 1v1 but easily fooled by clever movement and not great with his positioning.
There's a reason no manager has ever fully backed him here and he's now at a Serie A also-ran.
Resisting a press is defending. Its preventing the opposition making chances, and turning the ball over with a press is among the best chances you can create. If a centre back can't handle a press well, then he's not a good defender.
Then why is it the defenders who try to overplay that are the ones who get caught out and give up the chances? Someone like Smalling who plays it simple doesn't tend to get caught out like that. So its actually the complete opposite, you are defending more by taking a big chance for a slight gain, where a defender might dribble past 1 player and have more passing options or might slide a nice pass into midfield past an opposition player, but then the player who receives the ball still needs to do 90% of the work to create a chance. Thats what you gained when it goes right, when it goes wrong the opposition break on you easily with your players out of position and have a much easier chance of getting a shot away. The best part about it is even great passers get their passes wrong sometimes, someone like Carrick or Scholes can be inaccurate with a pass once a game. So imagine how often CBs get creative passes perfect for the whole game.
Honestly I haven't seen a single game of Roma to give an opinion on the last part. Certainly CBs are a small part of the entire equation and all they can do is not be a spoiler for the team's flow, certainly not be responsible for the attack.
Anyway a different point is I believe Smalling is quite overrated as a defender too. He has lapses of concentration and isn't good with dealing with balls into the box as much as he should. Lindelof isn't great either so we do need an upgrade but Smalling isn't that from the point of view of defense too. The only thing Smalling adds into our team is pace so we may get caught out less with a high line.
You're talking as though the decision to play from the back is something the defender makes off their own back. Its not, its a tactical decision the manager makes. Ole (like basically every other manager at a top club in Europe at this point in time) wants to play from the back and apply pressure through possession. The only question is, which CB can do that best?
Also, I'm not talking about being creative. That's got nothing to do with it.
Exactly this, and there is a reason why he is going to Roma. Some people are making out as if he is a special defender.
How many of those managers werent a premier league also-ran who delivered on what they were expected to do? Most of them failed and were sacked.
Wtf are you saying?
He was first choice centre back when fit for every manager until Ole came. 
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Wtf are you saying?
He became first choice, but LVG and Mourinho both signed CBs. Smalling outperformed them all and became first choice again because the results mattered and they were going to lose their jobs if they didnt perform. If they had spent the money elsewhere instead of failing with CBs to replacing him perhaps they would have achieved what they came to the club for and not been fired, so its a really weird argument that managers who came in and failed didnt back him so that means he isnt good enough. They werent good enough thats why they were fired.
They were brought in to play beside him, not to replace him.
I think he started as first choice for LVG, but Mourinho definitely tried to replace him. The others failed so Smalling stepped back in each time and established himself as first choice, only for Mourinho to start the following season with him on the bench again.
This is my recollection too, except that LVG chopped and changed all his centre backs and often played a back three in his first season, so it’s hard to say who was a first teamer and who wasn’t at that point. But yeah, Smalling usually got back into the team only for the manager to look try to upgrade him.
Wtf are you saying?
SAF - 3 years - never established himself.
Moyes - 1 year - squad player.
LVG - Year 1 - dropped after 2 games and needed injuries to get back in. Year 2 - became a proper starter when Blind moved to CB.
Mourinho - 2 years. Year 1 - Bailly signed to replace him, dropped until Bailly got injured. Year 2 - Lindelof signed to replace him, dropped until Bailly got injured.
Ole - 2 years - Year 1 - got injured as Ole arrived. Year 2 - moved on.
He was first choice because he was fit. Nothing more than that.
31 league titles and 5 European Cups between that lot. Maybe, just maybe, they know a bit more about what makes a good defender than you?
Anyway, no point going down this road with his fanclub. He's off soon and this chapter in our history can be closed for good.
No point arguing with some posters. They think that Ole is not only a bad manager but he cannot spot talent. Not only that, he has coaching staff with them as well, along with the England manager who has again not picked him in the England squad.
Under LVG: He received a stupid red card vs City at the Etihad in November 2014. After coming back from suspension, he became one of the best defenders in the whole PL and undoubtedly our best defender for the rest of that season and throughout 2015/16. You remember wrong.
That's also wrong. He got a chance because he was fit. He took the chance and outperformed the others so remained first choice for the rest of the season each time. Most noticeably in 17/18 where in the final few months of the season most (all?) of the other defenders were fit but they just rotated with Smalling playing with a different partner every match as he was the only one Mourinho trusted. That's the period where the Smalling +1 really came from.
Absolutely spot on. I have a strong suspicion that a lot of Redcafe members don't actually watch games.
I also stated that he's a very good defender. We reportedly want £20m. That's a fair price imo
I wanted Smalling to stay. His passing & decision making is quicker, shorter and better than Lindelof's.
The only thing Lindelof is better at is both when dribbling the ball outwards and when dribbling under pressure. He has more length to a pass than Smalling - but it wont get used regularly enough in comparison to someone like Daley Blind used to play balls out for it to be even remotely effective- it barely reaches the CDM once a game without the CDM not having to drop back.
Smalling makes better defensive decision, passing decisions and decisions to make when put under pressure in these situations so he is more reliable than people give him credit for and simply a better defender than Lindelof.
The only thing Lindelof is better at is both when dribbling the ball outwards and when dribbling under pressure. He has more length to a pass than Smalling - but it wont get used regularly enough in comparison to someone like Daley Blind used to play balls out for it to be even remotely effective- it barely reaches the CDM once a game without the CDM not having to drop back.
Smalling makes better defensive decision, passing decisions and decisions to make when put under pressure in these situations so he is more reliable than people give him credit for and simply a better defender than Lindelof.
If he stays he’ll almost certainly become Maguire’s partner. That partnership made so much sense from the beginning in my opinion. And his inability to play with the ball is massively over exaggerated anyway. He’s no worse than Michael Keane who Southgate has been selecting instead.
So the great natural defender myth wasn't enough, now he's good on the ball too. I wonder if Barcelona will go for him, or any other top club.
I wonder if Barcelona will go for him, or any other top club.Absolute horse shit. Chris Smalling has the least footballing ability of any player I’ve seen pull on a Manchester United shirt in the time I’ve been watching (1985 was my first match at old Trafford). Appalling touch. Direction of pass abysmal. Weight of pass is a concept completely alien to him. His much vaunted one on one defending is laughable, and was exposed as such by a multitude of bang average premier league strikers. His aerial ability is average to half decent when clearing, but again his ability to head to a player wearing the same shirt is woeful. He was a poor purchase, based on lord only knows what given his professional career at the time extended as far as falling on his arse scoring an own goal for Fulham.
He’s tried hard, carved a decent career for himself during our weakest collective moment in recent history, so fair play to the lad and I wish him well. As long as it’s anywhere other than here.
The best thing about Smalling staying would be the rotation option. He'd excel at more physical games, which is something Lindelof is generally meh at.
I'd still have Maguire/Victor as first choice but he provides a better option for most of the time than Bailly, who is usually fine but scares the beyeezy out of me.
Jones/Rojo are the ones who need to go. Tuanzebe too but on loan.
I'd still have Maguire/Victor as first choice but he provides a better option for most of the time than Bailly, who is usually fine but scares the beyeezy out of me.
Jones/Rojo are the ones who need to go. Tuanzebe too but on loan.
Smalling fans crying as if we are losing Maldini or Nesta. I liked smalling, in fact I felt he was underrated by our fans but now it seems fans have started overrating him. Ole was clear he wanted to keep smalling but cannot guarantee him any starts, so it was his decision to leave. Funny had he stayed maybe he would have been a regular partner for Maguire.
I am glad his saga will be finally over and we can move on.
I am glad his saga will be finally over and we can move on.
This guy.
You're aware he just had a good season at Roma right? What did Smalling do to you?
We need to keep him 100%. Buying a guy to replace him will cost twice as much. Also we need to actually bloody improve our attack and depth in other areas .
If we make 3 signings which is more than I think then I want right winger, left winger/attacking midfield, fullback ideally to the left.
If we make 3 signings which is more than I think then I want right winger, left winger/attacking midfield, fullback ideally to the left.
I can understand if people prefer him over other players, but to say his passing is quicker and better than Lindelof’s is simply not true. Smalling’s passes always end up a metre too short so the receiver needs to stop and wait for it. His handling of pressure is to either pass it on to someone else to handle it or to clear it.
Another advantage Lindelof has over Smalling is that he is better at cooperating with the other defenders. I don’t know how many times I’ve seen Smalling screw up Milan’s offside line this season.
Smalling’s advantage is in the air, but with Maguire being a level above Smalling in that regard, I don’t see the need really.
Do you realize he wants to leave and will only stay if he is promised to be played every week. No manager can make such promises unless he is worldclass.
For a 30 year old? Again look at the prices of players 30 years old+. They are some international stars with big reputations in europe. At one point they would have been considered "world class". I dont think anyone would seriously suggest Smalling's name should be alongside them.
20 million is a large price for a player his age
This is a Caf trademark. Take a player away from the first team/11 long enough and myths about him will start being made. And this new one about his passing and ability on the ball is a new one and one of the most absurd ever created on the Caf.So the great natural defender myth wasn't enough, now he's good on the ball too.
Smalling is so fecking awful on the ball that at times in order to make a side way pass he had to actually shift his body completely in the direction of the player he's going to pass to who is standing 2-3 yards from him. Have people gotten amnesia in this thread and failing to recall Smalling's awfulness on the ball?
Say he can stay and fight for his place like everyone in the side. He got a contract with us though and unless we get big money we do not need to sell.
Other clubs do that with players and we should not be too kind and let everyone go.
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