[The Original]

Its obvious youre a big fan of the guy so Im not going to get caught up in a back and forth discussion about his ability. The simple facts are that in the post Fergie era and post Ferdinand / Vidic, Smalling was a part of the worst CB pairing this club has had in 30 years. The quality just isnt there, which is why every subsequent manager attempted to replace both by either bringing in transfers or courting transfers.

Im happy he is doing well in Rome, he has found his level. A nice slow pedestrian league. But the simple fact is that he is not good enough for Manchester United. Inconsistent and prone to errors. If Fergie hadnt retired he would have had one season he before being shipped out.

@The Original

I don't know what point you are trying to make by claiming he was part of the worst Cb pairing the club has had in 30 years. What area of the pitch has excelled in comparison to previous Man Utd teams??

But let's look at facts: It is patently obvious that during these bad years, he was a mainstay of the teams that achieved the most, coming 2nd under and winning the Europa league with Mourinho and winning the FA cup with LVG. In both of those years, Utd had among the meanest defences in the league. Consistently proving that in Utd's best years post-Ferguson, Smalling was the one constant in any periods of good defending.

And is it not telling that every single one of Ferguson, Moyes, LVG and Mourinho had Smalling as a regular(to varying degrees), despite each bringing in other defenders. That does seem to point to the fact that Chris Smalling has been hard to replace.

 

[romufc]

Disagree with that part, I think Fergie would have made him very good. Smalling is the best CB we have had at the club in the post Fergie era

Maguire?

 

[Cassidy]

Maguire?

Time will tell I guess

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

How solid it is depends on one’s definition. It’s pretty much same level as City and Liverpool. Only 4 teams have conceded less goals, 15 teams have conceded more. So it’s among the absolute best defences in the PL if we measure defence quality in conceded goals.

In whatever metric you use and you can even compare us to the top teams in the league but conceding a goal every game is poor. it's just Liverpool and City have enough firepower to compensate for bad days. We don't.

 

[Ekeke]

I never said someone said that. I said some are acting as if we have lost a prime vidic or Rio. He is/was a decent defender thats it. If people want to pretend otherwise then that's their call.

It seems there has been a trend here that any player leaving us is suddenly portrayed as world beater. Look at Herrera's thread, look at Lukaku's thread. Heck some have also started to miss Fellaini. I bet same will happen once matic leaves, suddenly some will start acting how big a player we have lost.

Thats exactly what you said.

Rio and Vidic were the best CBs in the world.

Nobody is pretending Chris Smalling is as good as they were. You made it up

 

[A-man]

In whatever metric you use and you can even compare us to the top teams in the league but conceding a goal every game is poor. it's just Liverpool and City have enough firepower to compensate for bad days. We don't.

Whatever metric I use? Is there any more straightforward method than measuring the amount of conceded goals and compare that to all other teams in the league? And there is since last round, only 3 teams which have conceded less goals than United. And 16 teams which have conceded more.

United is fourth best with 16 teams that are worse.

If you say 1 conceded goal per match is poor, remember that 16 teams are worse and only three teams are (slightly) better.

The problem is not the conceded goals, as they are among the best. The problem is that the top 4 teams have scored roughly 2 times more than United.

 

[AshRK]

Thats exactly what you said.

Rio and Vidic were the best CBs in the world.

Nobody is pretending Chris Smalling is as good as they were. You made it up

I don't need to make up anything considering how you spend here every day convincing people how great Smalling is.

 

[A-man]

Disagree with that part, I think Fergie would have made him very good. Smalling is the best CB we have had at the club in the post Fergie era

Most of the time Smalling is very good on a personal level. He will look good and get good stats because he has many headers, clearances and doesn’t make poor decisions. The problem is that the team has to adjust to accommodate him, with midfielders helping him it, goalkeeper clearing away his passes etc. Team always have to adjust for every players weaknesses and strengths, but I think the team suffer sometimes with him more than they benefit.


This is my highly personal opinion about Smalling and I fully respect if you disagree as this is more a vague feeling I have rather than a fact.

 

[Cassidy]

Most of the time Smalling is very good on a personal level. He will look good and get good stats because he has many headers, clearances and doesn’t make poor decisions. The problem is that the team has to adjust to accommodate him, with midfielders helping him it, goalkeeper clearing away his passes etc. Team always have to adjust for every players weaknesses and strengths, but I think the team suffer sometimes with him more than they benefit.


This is my highly personal opinion about Smalling and I fully respect if you disagree as this is more a vague feeling I have rather than a fact.

I actually think one thing our backline (more central defence) is missing is his speed and aggressiveness, the 17/18 season we finished second with one of the best defensive records in the league, Smalling was a big part of that and was a threat in the opposition box on set pieces too. Imagine having both Smalling and Maguire up on corners.

Also with the addition of AWB I think we could have employed a very aggressive high line this season had we kept Smalling in the side.

Also our midfielders still drop very deep to collect the ball, despite our ball playing CBs

 

[A-man]

I actually think one thing our backline (more central defence) is missing is his speed and aggressiveness, the 17/18 season we finished second with one of the best defensive records in the league, Smalling was a big part of that and was a threat in the opposition box on set pieces too. Imagine having both Smalling and Maguire up on corners.

Also with the addition of AWB I think we could have employed a very aggressive high line this season had we kept Smalling in the side.

Also our midfielders still drop very deep to collect the ball, despite our ball playing CBs

First of all I’m not saying all problems are solved, but I really think that the midfield don’t need to drop deep to collect the ball as much as last season. Could also be because Matic and Pogba have been absent, as they were the ones who always did that.

When it comes to corners and setpieces, I think it would add a lot to have a strong forward. Now every single setpieces is targeting Maguire and there are no alternatives. Even if he’s good, it is easy to defend.

 

[romufc]

I actually think one thing our backline (more central defence) is missing is his speed and aggressiveness, the 17/18 season we finished second with one of the best defensive records in the league, Smalling was a big part of that and was a threat in the opposition box on set pieces too.

We were good defensively but we need to put things into context.

1. DDG had a blinder of a season keeping things out that should have gone in.

2. Ultra defensive coach in charge where 1-0 is enough to win

3. Same back line last season.. look what happened.

 

[Isotope]

We were good defensively but we need to put things into context.

1. DDG had a blinder of a season keeping things out that should have gone in.

2. Ultra defensive coach in charge where 1-0 is enough to win

3. Same back line last season.. look what happened.

1. And Lindelof was a big part of last year defensive issue. Based on this season when Smalling is not here, Lindelof is one of the big weakness on defense,
2. Smalling has been around ~ 5 years, where in general our team was one of the best defensively.

Based on 1 and 2, you should be able to tell, who was the culprit of this defensively yo-yo issue last season. But hey..

 

[Ekeke]

I don't need to make up anything considering how you spend here every day convincing people how great Smalling is.

And again, nobody has said hes as good as Vidic and Ferdinand.

 

[romufc]

1. And Lindelof was a big part of last year defensive issue. Based on this season when Smalling is not here, Lindelof is one of the big weakness on defense,
2. Smalling has been around ~ 5 years, where in general our team was one of the best defensively.

Based on 1 and 2, you should be able to tell, who was the culprit of this defensively yo-yo issue last season. But hey..

1. Yes because Smalling didn't play last season and we played a 3 back ?

This season we are 5th best defensive team but you will say this is because of the additions of Maguire and AWB.

Yet you will also ignore what DDG did for us in seasons where we were good defensively?

2. Yes it's easy to tell it was Lindelof right? because he was the only CB?

 

[AshRK]

And again, nobody has said hes as good as Vidic and Ferdinand.

Repeating again, no one said but some are acting as if losing smalling is such a big blow when it clearly is not.

 

[Ekeke]

Repeating again, no one said but some are acting as if losing smalling is such a big blow when it clearly is not.

So its only a big blow if we lose Vidic and Ferdinand. I guess it wont be a big blow if Pogba or De Gea leave

 

[romufc]

So its only a big blow if we lose Vidic and Ferdinand. I guess it wont be a big blow if Pogba or De Gea leave

It's a big blow when you lose WC players.

 

[Isotope]

1. Yes because Smalling didn't play last season and we played a 3 back ?

This season we are 5th best defensive team but you will say this is because of the additions of Maguire and AWB.

Yet you will also ignore what DDG did for us in seasons where we were good defensively?

2. Yes it's easy to tell it was Lindelof right? because he was the only CB?

The addition of AWB and Maguire are the main reason our defense have been so good. Lindelof is the weakest point on this. I'm not sure how people still want to argue about this.

 

[Cassidy]

1. Yes because Smalling didn't play last season and we played a 3 back ?

This season we are 5th best defensive team but you will say this is because of the additions of Maguire and AWB.

Yet you will also ignore what DDG did for us in seasons where we were good defensively?

2. Yes it's easy to tell it was Lindelof right? because he was the only CB?

Lindelof is the weak link, as well as LB

We also have an issue with the GK on set pieces and crosses too.

I was hoping Lindelof could step it up this season but I actually think Smalling would be better in this side

Opinions anyway. I am not wedded to Smalling I think he was always replaceable. Just don’t think we have replaced him well enough

 

[RedPed]

Are those all/the worst errors you could find after his 9-year stint here? Must have been a great player then.

Nah, here's another one from his extensive library. This is the one I was thinking of. His face plant @00.34 is just hilarious.

 

[Ekeke]

It's a big blow when you lose WC players.

Its a big blow when you lose any very good player and have worse players playing instead of them

 

[romufc]

Lindelof is the weak link, as well as LB

We also have an issue with the GK on set pieces and crosses too.

I was hoping Lindelof could step it up this season but I actually think Smalling would be better in this side

Opinions anyway. I am not wedded to Smalling I think he was always replaceable. Just don’t think we have replaced him well enough

So based on above, Lindelof is not the only issue?

I am not one for saying he is a WC player, it could have gone either way. But, Ole decided he wants Lindelof.

I am hoping by the end of the season Tuanzebe is nurtured into the team and is a regular at CB.

But the narrative that Smalling is this brilliant defender doesn't wash with me.

 

[AshRK]

So its only a big blow if we lose Vidic and Ferdinand. I guess it wont be a big blow if Pogba or De Gea leave

Losing Pogba is not equal to losing Smalling. Stop overrating Smalling ffs.

 

[romufc]

The addition of AWB and Maguire are the main reason our defense have been so good. Lindelof is the weakest point on this. I'm not sure how people still want to argue about this.

I am not disagreeing that AWB and Maguire have improved us.

I jsut don't understand how some people think if Smalling was here we would have conceded less?

We don't concede many chances, the reason our defence looks worse is because we dont create anything up top.

 

[romufc]

Its a big blow when you lose any very good player and have worse players playing instead of them

Would you say Lukaku fits the bill of what you are describing?

 

[AshRK]

I am not disagreeing that AWB and Maguire have improved us.

I jsut don't understand how some people think if Smalling was here we would have conceded less?

We don't concede many chances, the reason our defence looks worse is because we dont create anything up top.

Defence has hardly been our issue this season. The games we have lost is mostly by 1 goal margin. The only game we lost by 2 goal margin is against Westham. The smalling fanboys are hell bent in proving how smalling would have made a difference in those games is really funny.

 

[romufc]

Defence has hardly been our issue this season. The games we have lost is mostly by 1 goal margin. The only game we lost by 2 goal margin is against Westham. The smalling fanboys are hell bent in proving how smalling would have made a difference in those games is really funny.

No difference. The goals we conceded have not been because of Lindelof. But the reason we keep the ball better this season is we have better ball playing CB's.

I find it quite funny that some people call the Italian league easy, farmers league etc.. but Smalling at Roma is painted as if he is the holy grail of defenders.

 

[Ekeke]

Would you say Lukaku fits the bill of what you are describing?

As a bench option most definitely. He wasnt really starting last season, but as a backup we've missed him and we've missed his goals off the bench

 

[Ekeke]

No difference. The goals we conceded have not been because of Lindelof. But the reason we keep the ball better this season is we have better ball playing CB's.

I find it quite funny that some people call the Italian league easy, farmers league etc.. but Smalling at Roma is painted as if he is the holy grail of defenders.

Weird. We have 1% less of the ball than last season and 1% worse passing accuracy. So actually we keep the ball worse than last season

 

[romufc]

As a bench option most definitely. He wasnt really starting last season, but as a backup we've missed him and we've missed his goals off the bench

So Lukaku who played more games than Smalling is a good bench option
32 (10) games

And Smalling who started less games is a very very good player we miss?
24 games

Also why would you want a £70m player to sit on the bench for an option?

 

[Ekeke]

So Lukaku who played more games than Smalling is a good bench option
32 (10) games

And Smalling who started less games is a very very good player we miss?
24 games

Also why would you want a £70m player to sit on the bench for an option?

Lukaku was a starter and lost his place, rightfully so. Others were playing better. Sanchez also lost his place. But then Lukaku still contributed off the bench and with a run of goals.

I dont know why you'd want good players on the bench, ask Real Madrid who have Isco and James Rodriguez on the bench. Or Barcelona with Rakitic on the bench

 

[romufc]

Weird. We have 1% less of the ball than last season and 1% worse passing accuracy. So actually we keep the ball worse than last season

Keep the ball better is not the same as keep the ball longer?

Possession is due to Ole playing a Counter attacking style.

We don't look as nervous playing from the back, I am surprised you don't agree with this tbh.

 

[Ekeke]

Keep the ball better is not the same as keep the ball longer?

Possession is due to Ole playing a Counter attacking style.

We don't look as nervous playing from the back, I am surprised you don't agree with this tbh.

We played a counter attacking style last season too

Our CBs have more of the ball this season, our CMs have less of it. We're worse

 

[Stacks]

Its obvious youre a big fan of the guy so Im not going to get caught up in a back and forth discussion about his ability. The simple facts are that in the post Fergie era and post Ferdinand / Vidic, Smalling was a part of the worst CB pairing this club has had in 30 years. The quality just isnt there, which is why every subsequent manager attempted to replace both by either bringing in transfers or courting transfers.

Im happy he is doing well in Rome, he has found his level. A nice slow pedestrian league. But the simple fact is that he is not good enough for Manchester United. Inconsistent and prone to errors. If Fergie hadnt retired he would have had one season he before being shipped out.

@The Original

Can't disagree with this. Post Fergie there was no CB where we felt "yeah this guy can be a mainstay. Just find him a partner and we have nothing to worry about" there was always an air of doubt.

Disagree with that part, I think Fergie would have made him very good. Smalling is the best CB we have had at the club in the post Fergie era

Not saying much as CB has been a shambles post Fergie. We have bought so many and keep having to try different combinations and attempt to sign new ones under each manager. Utter shambles. Blind, Rojo Bailly Lindelof Maguire and brought back Axel. That's 6 new CB in 6 seasons on top despite having Jones and Smalling. Did we even sign any new CB when we had Rio and Vidic?

I don't know what point you are trying to make by claiming he was part of the worst Cb pairing the club has had in 30 years. What area of the pitch has excelled in comparison to previous Man Utd teams??

But let's look at facts: It is patently obvious that during these bad years, he was a mainstay of the teams that achieved the most, coming 2nd under and winning the Europa league with Mourinho and winning the FA cup with LVG. In both of those years, Utd had among the meanest defences in the league. Consistently proving that in Utd's best years post-Ferguson, Smalling was the one constant in any periods of good defending.

And is it not telling that every single one of Ferguson, Moyes, LVG and Mourinho had Smalling as a regular(to varying degrees), despite each bringing in other defenders. That does seem to point to the fact that Chris Smalling has been hard to replace.

Did we have the meanest defence in 2017 when finishing 6th? Under Van Gaal there was nothing mean about our defence. We limited any attacking from either side by aimless passing and possession. Once the oppo got the ball they were ALWAYS threatening and often got better opportunities than us hence us losing to Shite like Norwich and other newly promoted teams. Our defence weren't anything special and we were beatable.

 

[romufc]

Lukaku was a starter and lost his place, rightfully so. Others were playing better. Sanchez also lost his place. But then Lukaku still contributed off the bench and with a run of goals.

I dont know why you'd want good players on the bench, ask Real Madrid who have Isco and James Rodriguez on the bench. Or Barcelona with Rakitic on the bench

I just called Real madrid and they said on the bench because they are competing for titles and United for 5th place.

Also, Isco and Rodriguez are not entirely happy on the bench. Rodriguez went on loan and teams realised he is not good enough and Isco stayed because of Zidane.

Rakitic is also looking to move and is at the end of his career compared to Lukaku in his prime.

Do you just say stuff that suits your agenda ?

 

[A-man]

I am not disagreeing that AWB and Maguire have improved us.

I jsut don't understand how some people think if Smalling was here we would have conceded less?

We don't concede many chances, the reason our defence looks worse is because we dont create anything up top.

It is very weird why people dislike Lindelof so much. There are only three teams out of 20 who have better defensive record so far. Even City have worse defensive record this season. If you compare Lindelof to Maguire who is the most expensive CB in the history of football I would expect him to be the weaker of the two. That doesn’t mean he isnt good enough. He has been the main reason for 2-3 goals this season, just like Maguire. But CBs are often the main reason for a conceded goal. But overall the defence has one of the best records in the PL so far without DDG having to repeat his 2017/18 season superman skills.

 

[romufc]

It is very weird why people dislike Lindelof so much. There are only three teams out of 20 who have better defensive record so far. Even City have worse defensive record this season. If you compare Lindelof to Maguire who is the most expensive CB in the history of football I would expect him to be the weaker of the two. That doesn’t mean he isnt good enough. He has been the main reason for 2-3 goals this season, just like Maguire. But CBs are often the main reason for a conceded goal. But overall the defence has one of the best records in the PL so far without DDG having to repeat his 2017/18 season superman skills.

There is an agenda against him. We seem to find a new player to hate on every season.

Last season Lukaku and Young

This season Lindelof and Lingard.

Lindelof has made one mistake costing a goal but every goal we concede seems to be Lindelof's fault on the caf.

He might not be perfect but Ole seems to like him and is very highly rated in Sweden.

Weird bunch.

 

[Ekeke]

I just called Real madrid and they said on the bench because they are competing for titles and United for 5th place.

Also, Isco and Rodriguez are not entirely happy on the bench. Rodriguez went on loan and teams realised he is not good enough and Isco stayed because of Zidane.

Rakitic is also looking to move and is at the end of his career compared to Lukaku in his prime.

Do you just say stuff that suits your agenda ?

Well right now we arent competing for 5th place. And we're not going to compete for trophies without depth. Quality players are never happy on the bench, we still had them in all our successful years

Do you just say stupid stuff?

 

[romufc]

Well right now we arent competing for 5th place. And we're not going to compete for trophies without depth. Quality players are never happy on the bench, we still had them in all our successful years

Do you just say stupid stuff?

What are we competing for then?

Yes, but having a player that is disruptive in the squad is the way forward right?

THis is what i mean

 

[Ekeke]

What are we competing for then?

Yes, but having a player that is disruptive in the squad is the way forward right?

THis is what i mean

If a player wants to leave then I generally believe they should be let go, yes. That doesnt mean we havent missed his contribution from last season