Smalling doing well in Italy says more about AS Roma and Serie A than it does about his ball playing abilities. Look at how well Lukaku is also doing at Inter. The pace of the game suits them better over there. That is their level. Good luck to 'em.
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Yeah he quoted my post so I guess it was deliberate.
No Gerrard, Lampard, But i guess you rather look at 2nd choices than first choices..
Even still, READ my posts where I mention England as part of it and also MENTION lack of quality and I would rather have players the manager wants.
I rather see players that the manager can work with than fans,
Its not useless but the user can be ignorant. The stats show that Smalling , used as example as it is his thread, won about 65% of his aerial duels. If you want to break it down you can find out he won on average 4.3 aerials per match and lost 2.4 per match. It doesn’t however tell you how many of those were offensive or defensive. Players like Smalling, VvD and Maguire are often sent up for corners etc which give them a few extra aerials per match and their numbers are a little too high if you want to compare just defensive capacity. Also, it doesn’t tell how well the ball was controlled. You can more or less win an aerial but the ball ended up as own goal.
So to be sure, you rate Michael Keane, Timori, and Mings ahead of Smalling?
Just because you aint favored by one manager doesnt mean you're not any good. Paul Scholes got benched or got played out of position many times for England, but majority of people claim he's a better CM than Lampard of Scholes.
Like he stated, it doesnt tell you how many times they challenged for the ball in the air. Percentages only matter if the players are making a similar amount of attempts. Smalling obviously tries to win a lot more headers and when Lindelof lets the ball bounce because he's scared to head the ball, its not going to count in his "headed duels percentage" or whatever.
No it shows that people are inherently biased.
I think Smalling is better in the air than Lindelof. But those stats aren't useless, and ignoring them because they don't fit your perception is the problem, not the stats themselves.
I haven't seen much of Tomori and no I don't think Mings, or Keane are better than Smalling.
Paul Scholes was always a starter at Manutd, every manutd manager would have had him in the team. there is a vast difference between Paul Scholes and Smalling.
Scholes was undisputed No.1 when he was in his prime at United.
Smalling was first choice because none of the other CB's can stay fit.
I hope you understand the difference.
He was first choice because he defended better than the other options
Away from the toxic fecks who call him a chuckle brother and blindly slate everything he does he's actually finally getting some credit and fair assessment.
It was inevitable. They will find some stupid way of spinning it of course.
It was inevitable. They will find some stupid way of spinning it of course.
Correct. He always kept his place regardless of others getting fit again.
Smalling was first choice under Jose, LVG and Moyes. Games and minutes played backs this up. They tried buying new ones, but they all got benched for Smalling eventually. It happend every season.
It is not really true. As I explained, Smalling joins for corners etc and get many offensive aerials.
So far this season 44% of Smalling’s aerials were offensive and 66% defensive.
Lindelof has had 6% offensive and 94% defensive.
If we look at defensive aerial duels, there is nothing that indicates that Lindelof is scared to head the ball or that he would hide. He has more aerial attempts than Smalling.
Defensive aerial duels (all attempts) so far this season:
Lindelof 33/8 games= 4.13 defensive aerial duels per match
Smalling 23 / 6 games= 3.83 defensive aerial duels per game.
It was a bit of a surprise, but we can see that Lindelof is attacking for more aerials in defence than Smalling, so far.
edit: I have only calculated with stats from 8 matches but Lindelof has played 9, so I have undeliberately missed stats from one match and don’t know which. Will try to find out.
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Considering all those partners continue to be just as uncertain in positional play no matter who they were next to, not sure that's something that should be blamed on Smalling. It's just what Jones, Rojo, Bailly and perhaps Lindelof are like as players and they'd still be doing the same thing next to peak Rio.
Yeah thats wrong
Yes Smalling has had a shot per game this season, has been getting on the end of set pieces. But Serie A in general has less aerial balls in general and yet Smalling attempts to make more headers than Lindelof does.
Besides we can simply just count how many times Lindelof has messed up in the league so far this season Vs. Smalling
2 for Lindelof in the space of 2 weeks leading to goals, 0 for Smalling. And thats just the ones that led to goals
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Your perception, like mine, is that Smalling is better in the air.
A stat that says Lindelof is better in the air is totally useless without digging massively into the data
Yeah thats wrong
Yes Smalling has had a shot per game this season, has been getting on the end of set pieces. But Serie A in general has less aerial balls in general and yet Smalling attempts to make more headers than Smalling does.
Besides we can simply just count how many times Lindelof has messed up in the league so far this season Vs. Smalling
2 for Lindelof in the space of 2 weeks leading to goals, 0 for Smalling. And thats just the ones that led to goals
No the stats are correct. But there is one more match that should contribute for Lindelof.
Smalling has 23 defensive and 18 offensive aerials so far.
Lindelof has 33 defensive and 2 offensive, plus those from one more match.
It doesn’t support that Lindelof is afraid of the ball or other nonsense.
It's not useless though. How many games did you watch last season? Did you catch all the detail from the game? Or is your perception colored by a few high level incidents that caught the eye?
Statistics capture a certain proportion of information, but they do it more consistently than any human being. If the stats say Lindelof had more clearances, yes I want to dig deeper and see what the discrepancy is, but it's stupid to presume off the bat that they are flawed because they don't agree with what you see.
It doesn’t say who is the best in the air.
But a common theme around the anti Lindelof clan is that he is afraid of aerials, but if we look at attempted aerials in defence, he has similar figures compared to Smalling so far this season.
It's a small sample size. I watched Smalling head the ball for years for us, and Lindelof doesn't do it as well as him
To understand why Solskjaer opted for Lindelof + Maguire, rather than Smalling + ?, you have to look at De Gea's passing stats.
De Gea this season has a pass completion rate of 71.7% in the PL. Last season it was 60%. The season before that 57.5%. Before that 60%, 56.9%.
A more detailed breakdown into short passes and long balls.
Accurate Long balls 3.1 - 5.3 Inaccurate Long balls
Accurate Short Passes 10.6 - 0.1 Inaccurate Short Passes
Figures for last season were 7.9 - 9.8 (Long) and 7.1 - 0.2 (short)
Figures for the season before 7.0 - 10.8 (long) and 7.6 - 0 (short)
So, in simple terms, De Gea is required to pass the ball less and when he does pass, he favours short passes over long, because his success rate on long passes is down, due to the lack of Lukaku, Fellaini and before that, Zlatan. Maguire and Lindelof are far happier to receive a short pass from De Gea, then take responsibility for starting moves, than Smalling, Jones and Bailly were.
Smalling did not make the 18 man squad for our first three PL games this season. Tuanzebe was the chosen substitute central defender. That should tell you a lot about how Solskjaer wants the team to play.
As for defensive errors, Lindelof has been the main player at fault for 2 PL goals conceded this season (Palace first goal and Southampton's goal). Maguire's failure to provide cover or play offside also contributed to Palace's first goal, and his unwillingness to rush out to block Matty Longstaff's shot, left De Gea unsighted and not enough time to react when the ball went past Maguire. Maguire also made two careless errors that eventually led to the corner from which Wolves scored.
Smalling started 13 PL games under Mourinho last season and 11 under Solskjaer. During Solskjaer's time in charge, Smalling was at fault for 2 of Everton's goals, one as the main player at fault, the other as a contributor. Under Mourinho, Smalling conceded a penalty against Everton, he was poor at the Arsenal corner that resulted in a huge De Gea blunder, he was beaten in the air by David Luiz, who hit the post, in the build-up to Chelsea's late equalizer, also a weak challenge from Smalling failed to prevent one of Spurs' goals at Old Trafford.
If the manager wants to play a certain way, he needs players that suit that approach. Lindelof lacks the physical strength and ability in the air that most CBs possess but he is normally comfortable receiving possession. Maguire is good in the air, wins most physical duels, is comfortable in possession but painfully slow, which leaves us horribly vulnerable to counter-attacks.
De Gea this season has a pass completion rate of 71.7% in the PL. Last season it was 60%. The season before that 57.5%. Before that 60%, 56.9%.
A more detailed breakdown into short passes and long balls.
Accurate Long balls 3.1 - 5.3 Inaccurate Long balls
Accurate Short Passes 10.6 - 0.1 Inaccurate Short Passes
Figures for last season were 7.9 - 9.8 (Long) and 7.1 - 0.2 (short)
Figures for the season before 7.0 - 10.8 (long) and 7.6 - 0 (short)
So, in simple terms, De Gea is required to pass the ball less and when he does pass, he favours short passes over long, because his success rate on long passes is down, due to the lack of Lukaku, Fellaini and before that, Zlatan. Maguire and Lindelof are far happier to receive a short pass from De Gea, then take responsibility for starting moves, than Smalling, Jones and Bailly were.
Smalling did not make the 18 man squad for our first three PL games this season. Tuanzebe was the chosen substitute central defender. That should tell you a lot about how Solskjaer wants the team to play.
As for defensive errors, Lindelof has been the main player at fault for 2 PL goals conceded this season (Palace first goal and Southampton's goal). Maguire's failure to provide cover or play offside also contributed to Palace's first goal, and his unwillingness to rush out to block Matty Longstaff's shot, left De Gea unsighted and not enough time to react when the ball went past Maguire. Maguire also made two careless errors that eventually led to the corner from which Wolves scored.
Smalling started 13 PL games under Mourinho last season and 11 under Solskjaer. During Solskjaer's time in charge, Smalling was at fault for 2 of Everton's goals, one as the main player at fault, the other as a contributor. Under Mourinho, Smalling conceded a penalty against Everton, he was poor at the Arsenal corner that resulted in a huge De Gea blunder, he was beaten in the air by David Luiz, who hit the post, in the build-up to Chelsea's late equalizer, also a weak challenge from Smalling failed to prevent one of Spurs' goals at Old Trafford.
If the manager wants to play a certain way, he needs players that suit that approach. Lindelof lacks the physical strength and ability in the air that most CBs possess but he is normally comfortable receiving possession. Maguire is good in the air, wins most physical duels, is comfortable in possession but painfully slow, which leaves us horribly vulnerable to counter-attacks.
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One major difference is how they use DDG when playing around the ball at the back. Last season he often got the ball when a CB panicked under pressure and he then had half a second to clear it. Now he is part of the passing-around.
Thanks.....that's a better way of putting it.
De Gea is just working on his ball playing under a manager who cares about it. He's getting better at it, its that simple
Brilliant again, it's unbelievable that we loan out best cb in the club
Say what you want about Smalling, but that equalizer would never happen with him in central defense. I like Maguire, but his lack of pace is worrying in these situations. Especially with Lindelöf playing next to him.
Not to mention the fantastic 'heading to a another player instead of clearing it' concept is doing wonders for our team currently. They're really thriving from the concept. Makes them stand out.
Of course he's getting the credit, he's a brilliant defender and should definitely be ahead of Lindelof. But alas, we've some shit fans who don't understand defending and criticise Smalling over anything because he's an unpopular player. Hope he does well with Roma, but I'd take him back at United happily.
It is highly speculative. Maybe it would have, maybe it wouldn’t. And probably many other goals would have happened.
Was good enough for them to win against Chelsea.
Many other goals would have been blamed on him thats for sure. We probably wouldnt have conceded more though given he's had 3 clean sheets in 6 matches at Roma where he isnt playing next to an £80 million CB and usually in front of the highest paid keeper in the world
Yep, simple and to the point
Never understood why he was not rated here. It is what happens when you have a talented squad. Chelsea is a great example of this. We will be prime example if we continue to spend so much on players.
Yeah, it was a good win. Your point is so silly. Smalling is 6'4, and athletic. Lindelof is 6'2 and not. If anyone is going to be able to win a header from a standstill, so confidently he can aim it to a team mate it is going to be Smalling every time. I've seen Smalling win headers against strikers Lindelof wouldn't attempt to go in a duel with and the ball still landed on the foot of a teammate. He is good in duels, so he can manoeuvre with greater control, a player that struggles to get his body in the situation wont be able to do either confidently.
With all respect, and I really respect Smalling, but playing Udinese isn’t playing Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal. There is a big difference.
Smalling has played 7 matches and they have conceded 5 goals. That is very good, agree.
Looking at United’s last 7 matches and they have also conceded 5 goals. That is also very good. Maybe even better as they faced Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea.
I wished it was Jones who went out on loan and we kept Smalling, but the word is Smalling didn't want to be a bench choice so pushed for a move. Can't really blame the club for that other than OGS choosing unwisely if that?
It’s not silly but a common complaint. Smalling often waste simple headers, straight to the feet of the opponent. Sorry.
and btw I have never said Lindelof was great at heading balls with accuracy. With his feet yes.
Its 3 clean sheets. United have managed 2 in that time despite playing Partizan Belgrade twice. I'm sure most teams would rather play them than Udinese
Partisan are 4th in their own league and lost 2 times to teams from their own league in their last 7 matches. So they are far weaker than teams Roma have played in their last 7
Delighted for him. So much unfair stick over the years.
Is it? I think you are blowing this out of proportion. I've seen many myths about Smalling, but wasting simple headers? Really? Simple headers? Alright buddy.
A-man has to be on a wind up surely? There's no way possible you think lindelof is better in the air than smalling?
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