[MikeKing]

I don't even know what you mean with the first line mate, you and Ekeke defend Smalling from every piece of criticism he gets, that's just a fact. I read what you said and no, I think you are wrong, he should have done more to stop Coutinho, a top CB would have IMO. If you thought Jones was worse than him tonight then fair enough, don't reply, my main point is neither are good enough and we'll continue to be nothing but a top 4 scrambling team that makes up the numbers in the CL, if we actually qualify to be in the competition.

So you do consider Jones and Smalling equal as players in contribution to our team, in games we need to win to be in the CL or better? That is in fact a bit ridiculous if so.
And, I don't care if you think I go overboard in defending Smalling, as I admit that I do defend him a lot here but you don't have basis to attack my character because of it. I do consider good arguments and discuss. He is a good player and has done more than he gets credit for in these hard times for a pretty bad United side.

 

[Devil may care]

So you do consider Jones and Smalling equal as players in contribution to our team, in games we need to win to be in the CL or better? That is in fact a bit ridiculous if so.
And, I don't care if you think I go overboard in defending Smalling, as I admit that I do defend him a lot here but you don't have basis to attack my character because of it. I do consider good arguments and discuss. He is a good player and has done more than he gets credit for in these hard times for a pretty bad United side.

Firstly I didn't attack you or your character, you are being overly sensitive about this. I thought Smalling and Jones overall tonight were about the same, Jones slightly better, overall I'd say Smalling has had a better United career, look back through the thread, I don't shit on Smalling much, but him and Jones don't have to be equals to both not be good enough to be starters for United if our goal is to get back on top, that was my point.

 

[MikeKing]

Firstly I didn't attack you or your character, you are being overly sensitive about this. I thought Smalling and Jones overall tonight were about the same, Jones slightly better, overall I'd say Smalling has had a better United career, look back through the thread, I don't shit on Smalling much, but him and Jones don't have to be equals to both not be good enough to be starters for United if our goal is to get back on top, that was my point.

You attached it to my character as a fact that I defend Smalling from every piece of criticism he gets, which is an exaggeration and I see that as an attack then. Maybe a tad sensitive yes, but I've had a bit too much alcohol to console after the game so give me a break here. I think Smalling is not comparable to Jones and I don't think the two matches against Barcelona should be used against Chris to prove he is not good enough. I do think Jones had a decent game, but he is very much a reactive player and not proactive like Smalling is. Defending against Messi etc is a risk game and I think Smalling played the percentages very well and got caught out being unlucky against Coutinho far out from goal. I think he could have been a bit closer to Messi in the one situation for the goal, but he had just covered a run so it is understandable. Think he played very well rest of the game, was my point.

 

[Devil may care]

You attached it to my character as a fact that I defend Smalling from every piece of criticism he gets, which is an exaggeration and I see that as an attack then. Maybe a tad sensitive yes, but I've had a bit too much alcohol to console after the game so give me a break here. I think Smalling is not comparable to Jones and I don't think the two matches against Barcelona should be used against Chris to prove he is not good enough. I do think Jones had a decent game, but he is very much a reactive player and not proactive like Smalling is. Defending against Messi etc is a risk game and I think Smalling played the percentages very well and got caught out being unlucky against Coutinho far out from goal. I think he could have been a bit closer to Messi in the one situation for the goal, but he had just covered a run so it is understandable. Think he played very well rest of the game, was my point.

Well I can't tell through a screen how much you have had to drink mate, and the fact is you and Ekeke do defend Smalling over every little thing, sometimes rightly but sometimes it's fanboyism. Bottom line for me is you are entitled to your point and I to mine, I don't think him or Jones played well tonight, they were both ok, but to call either good is just lowering the standards of what should be expected of a Man United player IMO. I am also not using the games against Barca as the sole basis for my view, I have said for ages now that Smalling should be a squad CB not a starter and that Jones should have been let go and not given a new contract.

 

[MikeKing]

Well I can't tell through a screen how much you have had to drink mate, and the fact is you and Ekeke do defend Smalling over every little thing, sometimes rightly but sometimes it's fanboyism. Bottom line for me is you are entitled to your point and I to mine, I don't think him or Jones played well tonight, they were both ok, but to call either good is just lowering the standards of what should be expected of a Man United player IMO. I am also not using the games against Barca as the sole basis for my view, I have said for ages now that Smalling should be a squad CB not a starter and that Jones should have been let go and not given a new contract.

Well of course but it is still attacking my character as that is not a fact, just your weird opinion from reading my comments probably. I consider valuable arguments as a way to overturn me and my views though, something you don't even bother to engage in, so what do you want from me here? I just disagreed with your point about Chris in the situation with Coutinho, I think your evaluation of him in that situation is harsh. And as I said, I didn't mean to jump on your sensitive ass in this matter. Even though I suspect we probably do disagree on more points than you attached to me in your initial post.

 

[Devil may care]

Well of course but it is still attacking my character as that is not a fact, just your weird opinion from reading my comments probably. I consider valuable arguments as a way to overturn me and my views though, something you don't even bother to engage in, so what do you want from me here? I just disagreed with your point about Chris in the situation with Coutinho, I think your evaluation of him in that situation is harsh. And as I said, I didn't mean to jump on your sensitive ass in this matter. Even though I suspect we probably do disagree on more points than you attached to me in your initial post.

I'm sensitive? That's weird since you are sensitive over criticism of a person you don't even know and then started throwing out dramatic lines about attacking your character because I mentioned that you and Ekeke go overboard in defending Smalling, I really had no idea you would be so troubled by that, I'm hoping Ekeke wont be when he reads this thread. I did engage you in the very brief point about the Coutinho goal, I am not sure what else I could have said there, you think he wasn't to blame, I think he was and I explained why. As far as what else we might disagree on, I don't know, but if you think Smalling is good enough to be a starter for United if our goal is to get back on top, then yes we disagree, you'd have to bring up your views on some other players to see what else we might disagree or agree on.

 

[el3mel]

Smalling is a good defender. The problem is he's just not as good as people are trying to force him to be. He's very upgradable, but at the moment not a huge concern considering the shite load we have to replace in every other position.

 

[shahzy]

I think he is part of the problem too, we end up retreating so often when he gets the ball under a bit of pressure or turning the ball over when he has a semi difficult ball to control. As the game gets less physical and more press orientated we have play out from the back.

He is but a lot of the forum will tell us that he is the best defender at the club. Yes Smalling is good at the defensive aspects of being a defender but there are more aspects to being a good defender than just that. Those mainly being how comfortable you are with the ball at your feet, how comfortably you can make space for yourself and then for a team mate. All of which Smalling severely lacks.

I can't have been the only one to notice how fast and high Barca squeezed up when Jones passed the ball to Smalling. They knew he is terrible with the ball at his feet and tried to make him cough up a mistake. Smalling then resorted to passing it back to De Gea and then he just booted it long. Thats been happening for years and thats why we as a club have been stuck in the past for a while now. We need to move on to how football is played now, not how it was played 10 years ago.

 

[Hawks2008]

He is but a lot of the forum will tell us that he is the best defender at the club. Yes Smalling is good at the defensive aspects of being a defender but there are more aspects to being a good defender than just that. Those mainly being how comfortable you are with the ball at your feet, how comfortably you can make space for yourself and then for a team mate. All of which Smalling severely lacks.

I can't have been the only one to notice how fast and high Barca squeezed up when Jones passed the ball to Smalling. They knew he is terrible with the ball at his feet and tried to make him cough up a mistake. Smalling then resorted to passing it back to De Gea and then he just booted it long. Thats been happening for years and thats why we as a club have been stuck in the past for a while now. We need to move on to how football is played now, not how it was played 10 years ago.

Agree with this. I think his lack of ability on the ball and the fact he can only seem to play RCB hinders us as much as his good qualities benefit us. He is part of our strongest CB pairing for sure but he is certainly someone we can upgrade on.

 

[MikeKing]

I'm sensitive? That's weird since you are sensitive over criticism of a person you don't even know and then started throwing out dramatic lines about attacking your character because I mentioned that you and Ekeke go overboard in defending Smalling, I really had no idea you would be so troubled by that, I'm hoping Ekeke wont be when he reads this thread. I did engage you in the very brief point about the Coutinho goal, I am not sure what else I could have said there, you think he wasn't to blame, I think he was and I explained why. As far as what else we might disagree on, I don't know, but if you think Smalling is good enough to be a starter for United if our goal is to get back on top, then yes we disagree, you'd have to bring up your views on some other players to see what else we might disagree or agree on.

Sure, you might be as you keep responding as if you might be. I don't care either way so it is fine, you don't have to respond to this, but I suspect any poster, Ekeke as well, doesn't appreciate being exaggerated. Overboard? It is a matter of opinion, isn't it? You can say Smalling should be closer to Coutinho, I just think defending when you are the underdog going for a goal is a percentage game and think he made the right decision with the wrong outcome, sadly. I would have said the same thing if freaking Rojo did it. Just so happens that Smalling is our best defender and is usually criticised the most despite doing most of the right decisions of all our defenders. I'll let you figure out how come I defend him a lot.

 

[Negan]

And there it is.

Completely found out again but go on, tell me how Smalling, Jones and Young are exactly what we need and how they shouldn’t be sold off to lower table sides. You lot deserve this.

 

[MikeKing]

And there it is.

Completely found out again but go on, tell me how Smalling, Jones and Young are exactly what we need and how they shouldn’t be sold off to lower table sides. You lot deserve this.

Young and Jones is basically trash putting in the occasional good performances to keep their dickriders happy. Smalling is actually consistent and shouldn't be bundled in with them, at all. He didn't even have a bad game really, and wasn't involved in any of the goals except for the longshot from Coutinho which is being debated. What didn't Smalling do right this game exactly?

 

[Negan]

Young and Jones is basically trash putting in the occasional good performances to keep their dickriders happy. Smalling is actually consistent and shouldn't be bundled in with them, at all. He didn't even have a bad game really, and wasn't involved in any of the goals except for the longshot from Coutinho which is being debated. What didn't Smalling do right this game exactly?

How they even have dickriders baffles me. I can’t believe there’s a single United fan who deems these good enough after watching Rio, Vidic and Evra put in world class performances weekly. How has our standards dropped so fecking low?

 

[MikeKing]

How they even have dickriders baffles me. I can’t believe there’s a single United fan who deems these good enough after watching Rio, Vidic and Evra put in world class performances weekly. How has our standards dropped so fecking low?

We'll I'm not sure but it is impossible to be dickriding too many of our mediocre players without being delusional. I'm not saying he is mediocre but I do admit that a lot of our players in our squad is questionable and Smalling is one of the players I do have a soft spot for, because I do think he is a very very good defender being sort of a victim of our current state. In the same way Pogba is a talented midfielder, not shining in this team. If he is supposed to be a backup or a first teamer I never decided and we'll probably never know, which is probably my stance on a player like Pogba too. It is hard to compare any of our players to our former legends you mentioned.

 

[Devil may care]

Sure, you might be as you keep responding as if you might be. I don't care either way so it is fine, you don't have to respond to this, but I suspect any poster, Ekeke as well, doesn't appreciate being exaggerated. Overboard? It is a matter of opinion, isn't it? You can say Smalling should be closer to Coutinho, I just think defending when you are the underdog going for a goal is a percentage game and think he made the right decision with the wrong outcome, sadly. I would have said the same thing if freaking Rojo did it. Just so happens that Smalling is our best defender and is usually criticised the most despite doing most of the right decisions of all our defenders. I'll let you figure out how come I defend him a lot.

If I got bothered by every poster that took a minor jab at me over my view of Lukaku or defending of Pogba I'd be in constant turmoil, it's not that deep, I keep responding here as you are interesting. We've made our views on the Smalling vs Coutinho situation, we disagree, no biggie, as for why you defend him, I don't see him taking any more shit than lots of players on here, just look at the threads for most, Smalling isn't treat any worse than the bulk of the squad, you just seem to really like this player so are feeling the need to jump to his defense on even a mild critique like mine, I mean again go back and look through the thread, I rarely slate him, I just don't think he should be anything more than a squad player here, if you disagree, then fine.

 

[MikeKing]

If I got bothered by every poster that took a minor jab at me over my view of Lukaku or defending of Pogba I'd be in constant turmoil, it's not that deep, I keep responding here as you are interesting. We've made our views on the Smalling vs Coutinho situation, we disagree, no biggie, as for why you defend him, I don't see him taking any more shit than lots of players on here, just look at the threads for most, Smalling isn't treat any worse than the bulk of the squad, you just seem to really like this player so are feeling the need to jump to his defense on even a mild critique like mine, I mean again go back and look through the thread, I rarely slate him, I just don't think he should be anything more than a squad player here, if you disagree, then fine.

You keep saying i'm jumping on you, but I don't and I haven't. I do understand your points about it though, if I were.

 

[NoPace]

Nearly 30 and playing every match probably explains it. That one against Suarez, think Lindelof played a poor ball and Smalling just didn't find his usual acceleration, just ended up toeing it back to Dave?

Smalling has had a good year but with is reliance on athleticism and weaknesses in possession I can't see him aging brilliantly, so it probably makes sense to get one last year out of him and then sell him next summer, aged 30 with 2 years left to go and the last chance to recoup a decent amount from a Prem team desperate for an experienced CB to avoid being a Fulham-esque catastrophe at the back and looking for a leader to defend deep and stay up.

 

[Virgil]

Shame really as its not his fault but Fulham really is about his standard. Totally understandable why generally speaking England managers have ignored him.

 

[Ekeke]

Shame really as its not his fault but Fulham really is about his standard. Totally understandable why generally speaking England managers have ignored him.

How did he finish 2nd last season as our best CB with a very good defensive record then? You guys have the memory of a goldfish

 

[berbatrick]

He did well, should have closed Coutinho down faster but IIRC that was his first shot, maybe he surprised Smalling.
I remember a chase with Suarez near the end of the match and since it was Smalling there was no doubt who would win the ball. He is still by a distance the best defender at the club.

 

[SteveW]

Only an idiot would single him out for that performance. Had a good game

 

[Kush]

Sums up the standard of our club when people are labelling last night performance from Smalling as excellent. Apart from his ineptitude to play the ball, he allowed one trick pony to do only thing which he knows to. Obviously that’ll be brushed aside because he kept out a washed up Suarez.

We’re still playing archaic football largely due to the fact we have such little technical quality in our CBs. One more year and we’ll have to play a testimonial, couldn’t make this shit up. He wouldn’t even make the Ajax bench, he’s that limited.

 

[arnie_ni]

I think there is 2 seperate arguments here.

1. Smalling is our best defender, id actually go further and say he is one of our best players.

2. That itself shows how poor our squad is overall. Ideally he's in a rotation at cb with say lindelof and we have a wc cb like vvd starting week in week out. Thats not a criticism of smalling but of our squad.

 

[Rossa]

Nearly 30 and playing every match probably explains it. That one against Suarez, think Lindelof played a poor ball and Smalling just didn't find his usual acceleration, just ended up toeing it back to Dave?

That was the one I was referring to, yes. Normally I wouldn't worry one bit with him against most players in a foot race.. Especially not Suarez.

 

[Rossa]

Probably tired, but he is definately not as fast as he was, lost that extra yard of pace. It was already visible last year.

He just beat Aubameyang for pace...

 

[Havak]

I don't know how anyone can say he was 'found' out last night? What did he do wrong other than maybe not close down Coutinho quick enough for the third goal (not that it was entirely down to him anyway).

I thought he was one of the few players to come out of that game with a bit of credibility, along with McTominay, Fred, and maybe Jones. Everyone else was below par, so Smalling gets 'found out' against Messi, Suarez, Coutinho and co when all of his team mates offer him next to no help anyway?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Looks like Messi scoring against your team means your defenders are shite. If he felt like it, Messi could turn van Dijk into Ronald McDonald. Bore off.

 

[Oldyella]

Smalling is a good defender. The problem is he's just not as good as people are trying to force him to be. He's very upgradable, but at the moment not a huge concern considering the shite load we have to replace in every other position.

This.

Smalling is in the "will do for now" category of players, given how much dross is around not just the squad but the 1st team. Also still think he would look a far better player with a decent RB next to him.

 

[devips]

Can't believe this! Ranting against Smalling after watching yesterday's match? He was one of the best United players on the field.

 

[SiamDevil]

I don't know how anyone can say he was 'found' out last night? What did he do wrong other than maybe not close down Coutinho quick enough for the third goal (not that it was entirely down to him anyway).

I thought he was one of the few players to come out of that game with a bit of credibility, along with McTominay, Fred, and maybe Jones. Everyone else was below par, so Smalling gets 'found out' against Messi, Suarez, Coutinho and co when all of his team mates offer him next to no help anyway?

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Looks like Messi scoring against your team means your defenders are shite. If he felt like it, Messi could turn van Dijk into Ronald McDonald. Bore off.

Because most people actually believed that blatantly fake quote about him knowing Messi's weakness, so it was his job and his job alone to keep Messi quiet. As a result, anything good Messi did is an "in your face" towards Smalling. It's next-level scapegoating. As if Smalling's not already a big enough scapegoat.

 

[Havak]

This.

Smalling is in the "will do for now" category of players, given how much dross is around not just the squad but the 1st team. Also still think he would look a far better player with a decent RB next to him.

Correct.

Given our recruitment of CB's since Ferdinand/Vidic left, Smalling has been head and shoulders above what we have had at our disposal. People get this confused with people who defend him the most, such as ourselves, that we think he is 'United title winning quality', but we don't necessarily think this is the case. If we had someone better, he would be on the bench or even sold a little further down the line. However, for that to happen we are going to have to sign two if not three superior CB's and our track record at signing them since Fergie is poor, so it might take even longer to get the right players in. For the next season I would be fine with Smalling as second or third choice CB, and then third or fourth choice the season after.

Getting Smalling out of the starting XI or squad entirely is definitely very low down on the list of stank to erase from the club. He wouldn't even make the top 10.

 

[Escobar]

Dont understand the negativity. Not his fault we've playing shit. Despite his many flaws, he's done ok recently. Yet we should bring in a top CB

 

[A-man]

He was not the reason United lost yesterday, but I wouldn't say he had "a very good" or "excellent" game as some say.

 

[A-man]

Swedish television showed some defence mistakes from united-Basel 2011, with 4 out of five in the defence line being the same as against Barcelona now 8 years later. They concluded that it is now clear to everybody outside the club that you don't conquer Europe with Jones, Smalling and Young and that it is a mystery that a club like United don't act on it. Something like that.

 

[#07]

Smalling is what he is. He is not suddenly going to become Jaap Stam. We've known what he is for years. We learned nothing from last night. Good player not a great player. You go to Nou Camp with good players and the great players will show you up. Simple as.

 

[breakout67]

Swedish television showed some defence mistakes from united-Basel 2011, with 4 out of five in the defence line being the same as against Barcelona now 8 years later. They concluded that it is now clear to everybody outside the club that you don't conquer Europe with Jones, Smalling and Young and that it is a mystery that a club like United don't act on it. Something like that.

All 3 got contract extensions

 

[Patrick08]

Dont understand the negativity. Not his fault we've playing shit. Despite his many flaws, he's done ok recently. Yet we should bring in a top CB

Though the third goal was completely on him. He just watched him take a shot instead of being aggressive.

 

[Escobar]

Though the third goal was completely on him. He just watched him take a shot instead of being aggressive.

Maybe, but it was also a superb effort

 

[Ekeke]

Swedish television showed some defence mistakes from united-Basel 2011, with 4 out of five in the defence line being the same as against Barcelona now 8 years later. They concluded that it is now clear to everybody outside the club that you don't conquer Europe with Jones, Smalling and Young and that it is a mystery that a club like United don't act on it. Something like that.

Yes I'm sure they dont focus on Lindelof struggling in europe

 

[Patrick08]

Yes I'm sure they dont focus on Lindelof struggling in europe

Lindelof didn't struggle in Europe.

 

[A-man]

Yes I'm sure they dont focus on Lindelof struggling in europe

You really hate him, don't you?