[breakout67]

Where does this idea come from that he is a good passer. 8 times out of 10 he is hoofing it

Rojo was regularly instructed to make diagonal balls to the striker when he played. For example against City at OT where he made that pass several times and created a goal from it for Rashford.

He's not a particularly good passer, but certainly better than Smalling and has some good delivery with his left foot.

 

[MikeKing]

What is going on? Why did people celebrate him leaving, and what changed the tune of that? Some rumour said he was leaving, has there now been a rumour that he isn't?

 

[simonhch]

Yeah its not like we just finished 2nd with our current CBs and an impressive defensive record

How much of that was the quality of our individuals defenders, and how much of that was a very negative, defensive style of play? Legitimate question. I can't imagine any other top side coveting any of our center halves. Bailly at a push, but he's been bang out of form for a while too.

 

[simonhch]

You don't need both your center halves to be good on the ball, but I think its a must to have one who is a natural at reading the play, making interceptions higher up the field, and picking out passes that can launch counter attacks. Of the current crop, only Lindelof has that capability, but he has plenty of questions over other aspects of his play. If you could've merged Smalling's defensive durability with Blind's ball playing skills, you would have had a world class defender. As it is, Smalling is so bad on the ball, he has a deleterious effect on our style of play; and Blind was so physically weak and slow, as to be a defensive calamity waiting to happen.

We've honestly laughed at City spending a fortune on Stones and Laporte. But both would walk into this team and instantly be the best center half on the books.

 

[MikeKing]

How much of that was the quality of our individuals defenders, and how much of that was a very negative, defensive style of play? Legitimate question. I can't imagine any other top side coveting any of our center halves. Bailly at a push, but he's been bang out of form for a while too.

Even with a benefitting style of play, they still have to execute. Defensive style of play equals more defending and for a defender that could mean more time to shine or more time to screw up. No matter which way you look at it, if you are doing something well, you are doing it well.

 

[simonhch]

Even with a benefitting style of play, they still have to execute. Defensive style of play equals more defending and for a defender that could mean more time to shine or more time to screw up. No matter which way you look at it, if you are doing something well, you are doing it well.

Yes and no. Its much easier to defend in numbers as part of a unit, rather than one v one. That way you can double up on marking, cut out passing lanes, starve service to forwards. It's a good rule of thumb in football that it is easier to destroy than it is to create. If your midfielders are sitting in front of your center backs, they are affording them a lot more protection than a team that plays a more expansive style. You don't need Baresi and Beckenbauer at the back to park the bus. You can do it with Gary Breen and Mikael Silvestre. But if you want to open up and go out to kill teams, you need high quality individual defenders who can read the game to an exceptionally high standard, and use the ball well when it comes to their feet.

 

[MikeKing]

You don't need both your center halves to be good on the ball, but I think its a must to have one who is a natural at reading the play, making interceptions higher up the field, and picking out passes that can launch counter attacks.

Both Bailly and Smalling can do and does that tho, especially if allowed to be aggressive and closer to the midfield. I don't think Lindelof has the strength, pace or aggressiveness to play like that. About starting counterattacks from deeper positions, I don't think the defenders are the main culprit for us not being good at it, because as you say, since we defend as a unit it is important for the midfield to find a way to move the ball quickly upfield, and to have runners that make themselves available. Usually the counters doesn't even start with Matic, or stops with a fullback not committing fully.

Most of our good counters have come from situations like Smalling winning a duel high up the pitch then one of the midfielders pick it up and gives a quick pass to a runner already in an advanced position. It is more ways than one to be of value to a certain setup and i think the whole 'ball-playing CB' thing is a bit overplayed now. It has become like.. all hypothetical.

Yes and no. Its much easier to defend in numbers as part of a unit, rather than one v one. That way you can double up on marking, cut out passing lanes, starve service to forwards. It's a good rule of thumb in football that it is easier to destroy than it is to create. If your midfielders are sitting in front of your center backs, they are affording them a lot more protection than a team that plays a more expansive style.

If that is true, that it is easier to destroy than to create, then no wonder our attackers is struggling. It has to be even harder to create something then if you first have to leave your destroying state of mind, then if you lose the ball, it is right back again. Must be exhausting. As for the defenders, they might have more responsibility to keep the team organised since it is "their game", as well as having to keep the concentration levels high throughout the whole game. There might even be some more praise due when looking at it that way. Unless the argument is just a tool to critique them. I'll rather that than other CB's who do less defending and can't even keep concentration for when they do (like Stones).

 

[Kostov]

Imagine if all fans were as irrational as you... Bailly has been awesome for us, form ruined by tedious injuries, he will turn good. At times last season he was a rock, no reason he won’t turn out like that next season.

I'm not sure what is so irrational really. Contrary selling the only CB that proved reliable at least injury wise in Smalling would be irrational as you say. I also rate Bailly very highly, but the constant injuries concern me.

 

[SteveW]

No you're right. We're selling Smalling according to those tweets.

Yet he's been first choice for the last 4 years. It's been Smalling+1 with the others fighting for the other spot. If the others are better why can't they get him out of the team? He's going nowhere because he's our best CB.

 

[Ekeke]

How much of that was the quality of our individuals defenders, and how much of that was a very negative, defensive style of play? Legitimate question. I can't imagine any other top side coveting any of our center halves. Bailly at a push, but he's been bang out of form for a while too.

Bailly has been all out of sorts. I dont think so.

It was down to De Gea and Smalling for the most part.

 

[villain]

How much of that was the quality of our individuals defenders, and how much of that was a very negative, defensive style of play? Legitimate question. I can't imagine any other top side coveting any of our center halves. Bailly at a push, but he's been bang out of form for a while too.

I don't understand this argument.

Who cares what other sides 'covet' when it comes to our players, only 1 player in recent history has left us and gone on to have a better career.
Madrid, Barca, Bayern et al wouldn't have coveted the likes of Park, Fletcher, Saha but they were still part of very successful squads for us weren't they? Keyword being squad.
Smalling is a squad player. So it doesn't matter that he isn't wanted by the top clubs because for our squad he performs consistently and better than our other defenders. Whether you think that's good enough isn't a slight on Smalling but rather the others who supposedly have superior ability, yet fail to display it or get injured too often to get a chance to do so.

Sure it's good to have players that the top teams covet, Martial, Pogba, Lukaku, Fred before he joined etc. But we can't have a full team of them, Madrid, Bayern, Barca, City, Chelsea, Dortmund all have players who work well in their system and are part of their squads that wouldn't be wanted by the top sides should they want to leave.

As for your other argument, Mourinho has always had a well organised defence and played defensively. Not conceding goals is part of his method. But beyond Mourinho, LVG conceded few goals, Moyes conceded few goals and of course SAF conceded few goals. We're not a defensively terrible team. It's just that defensive errors stick in our minds more readily than good defensive displays. And Smalling isn't a rash, jump in to tackles kinda guy so you're less likely to remember his great defending either.
Plus most people tend to work with a hive mind - if enough people call Jones & Smalling the Chuckle Brothers for bantz, suddenly it becomes almost impossible for them to shake that tag, regardless of whether it's accurate or not.

 

[Ekeke]

Just to add to the discussion about the "Would any of our rivals want Smalling or our other CBs?" debate

City - Otamendi & Kompany started the most matches
Spurs - Vertonghen & Sanchez started the most matches
Liverpool - Lovren & Matip started the most matches, but its pretty obvious that now VVD is their main man
Chelsea - Azpilicueta & Rudiger started the most matches
Arsenal - Mustafi & Koscielny started the most matches

How many of them would you want us to buy? A lot of them are 30+ and in their twilight years or dont seem to be rated very highly on here. Some are ridiculed and laughed at.

 

[Johan07]

He's instructed to do it because Mourinho isn't an idiot that would try to turn Smalling into a good passer.

When Rojo, Lindeloff and Bailly play they regularly try to find the forwards with their passing.

You comment about Xavi and Iniesta is clear ignorance as Mourinho has built the play with centre backs whenever he has them available. He is not someone that is so dogmatic to try to force passing from the back or vice versa. He adapts to the personnel available

The Xavi/Iniesta part was obviously hyperbole.

But I disagree about the part about Mourinho adapting to the personnel available. Mourinho has his system of play, think of it what you want. It can be really effective when it does work and it can be a complete bore when it doesnt work. He has always played basically the same way with all his teams though IMO. I dont get this narrative that Mourinho historically has been an offensive coach or that this (offensive thinking) is some latent trait of his that is just hindered by these crap footballers at his disposal at the current United. IMO we play the way we do because its the way Mourinho knows how to play and also thinks is the best way to be successful.

I dont know if I am overinterpreting your post but you seem to be one of these people that believe that United play the way we do not because of Mourinho, but in spite of him. And that he actually dreams of electric sheep, sorry: offensive football at night....

I will not go in in detail on what I think constitutes the basics of Mourinhos system more than to say (since this started with Smalling) that of the axioms is to have the CMs be responsible for circulating possession, and most importantly: have the CMs "below" the first opposition pressing line. And no more than one FB in front of the ball. It effectively means that a Mourinho team always willl have five or even six players behind the ball if possession is lost. This is fundamental for Mourinhos way of playing and why his teams is so good defensively.

On the other hand: it means that the options for playing the ball forward are limited and why a lot of times our circulation of possession ends with a long ball to Lukaku.

I will state a couple of arguments in support of my opinion that the way United play now is very much intentional and has nothing or very little to do with the personnel available:

1. Mourinho has always set up his teams like this. For me this applies even to his great Real Madrid team in his second season there. That was a great example of how a Mourinho team can function when he gets his players onboard. Offensive football it was not though even if they scored a lot of goals.
2. How he has set up United to play under his first two years here; I really dont need to go into this in more detail than to state that the best argument for this being the desired system of play is hanging on to it for two years with no sign of changing it.
3. Player recruitment and retention: Look: if Mourinho wanted to make us play a different type of football, he would have bought completely different players than he has. If the idea was to play with a high line and a high press for example, both acquisitions of Zlatan and Lukaku would be completely off. Great players as they are in Mourinhos system they dont have the mobility or stamina to play a high pressing game. See Zlatans exit from Barcelona. Same goes for Matic. Great player in a defensive system, dont think he would get a sniff under Guardiola or Klopp.
Then there of course is the reliance on Smalling. And the new contract to Fellaini. Etc.

So my opinion is that United play the way we do very much because its how Mourinho wants us to play. Not because he is forced to by the available player

 

[stevoc]

Just to add to the discussion about the "Would any of our rivals want Smalling or our other CBs?" debate

City - Otamendi & Kompany started the most matches
Spurs - Vertonghen & Sanchez started the most matches
Liverpool - Lovren & Matip started the most matches, but its pretty obvious that now VVD is their main man
Chelsea - Azpilicueta & Rudiger started the most matches
Arsenal - Mustafi & Koscielny started the most matches

How many of them would you want us to buy? A lot of them are 30+ and in their twilight years or dont seem to be rated very highly on here. Some are ridiculed and laughed at.

Now that you mention it i don't see any of them as a massive upgrade on Smalling, and most not as good. Players like Kompany on his day and in the past are/were better, good case to be made for Azpilicueta/Vertonghen as well. The likes of Sanchez have the potential to be better but thats about it.

I refuse to believe that everyone who watches Smalling regularly can't recognise that he is a good defender, good not great but reliable. So the negativity around him is almost entirely built up around this bizarre obsession with his ball playing skills which are not great but so what.

It's not like if Smalling could suddenly pass like Blind United would transform overnight into a free flowing and entertaining goal scoring machine. He's a centreback for feck sake.

 

[Revan]

Just to add to the discussion about the "Would any of our rivals want Smalling or our other CBs?" debate

City - Otamendi & Kompany started the most matches
Spurs - Vertonghen & Sanchez started the most matches
Liverpool - Lovren & Matip started the most matches, but its pretty obvious that now VVD is their main man
Chelsea - Azpilicueta & Rudiger started the most matches
Arsenal - Mustafi & Koscielny started the most matches

How many of them would you want us to buy? A lot of them are 30+ and in their twilight years or dont seem to be rated very highly on here. Some are ridiculed and laughed at.

Otamendi, Lovren (yes, Lovren), Vertonghen, Azpilicueta, Van Diijk, and Alder (who didn't start cause of injuries and contract) are better players than your idol from that list. Koscielny was until last season while Sanchez seems like a great prospect. Not crocked Kompany is also better.

 

[Ekeke]

Otamendi, Lovren (yes, Lovren), Vertonghen, Azpilicueta, Van Diijk, and Alder (who didn't start cause of injuries and contract) are better players than your idol from that list. Koscielny was until last season while Sanchez seems like a great prospect. Not crocked Kompany is also better.

My idol isnt on that list or in this thread.

Otamendi is 30 and plays for City, Lovren and VVD are Liverpool players, Vertonghen is 31, Koscielny is 32

Seems a bit weird that you want us to sign City and Liverpool players and players who are in their final few years at the top level. I'm just glad you aren't in Woodward's position

 

[villain]

Just to add to the discussion about the "Would any of our rivals want Smalling or our other CBs?" debate

City - Otamendi & Kompany started the most matches
Spurs - Vertonghen & Sanchez started the most matches
Liverpool - Lovren & Matip started the most matches, but its pretty obvious that now VVD is their main man
Chelsea - Azpilicueta & Rudiger started the most matches
Arsenal - Mustafi & Koscielny started the most matches

How many of them would you want us to buy? A lot of them are 30+ and in their twilight years or dont seem to be rated very highly on here. Some are ridiculed and laughed at.

Only Azpi & I quite like Sanchez tbf. The only other defenders I would want us to get are Varane, Koulibaly or Umtiti.
VVD would've been good but he's obviously dead to me now.

Most fans don't watch other teams game in game out, but when you look at goals that other teams concede their defensive errors can be quite shocking, and if made by Smalling they'd be calling for their heads.

 

[Revan]

My idol isnt on that list or in this thread.

Otamendi is 30 and plays for City, Lovren and VVD are Liverpool players, Vertonghen is 31, Koscielny is 32

Seems a bit weird that you want us to sign City and Liverpool players and players who are in their final few years at the top level. I'm just glad you aren't in Woodward's position

Didn't say that I want us to sign them, just that they are better than your idol. And your idol will be 29 on the first half of this season, so hardly much younger than them.

 

[Ekeke]

Didn't say that I want us to sign them, just that they are better than your idol. And your idol will be 29 on the first half of this season, so hardly much younger than them.

You answered the question of who you'd want from that list with a whole bunch of City and Liverpool players and players in their 30s. So next time read the question

 

[Ekeke]

Only Azpi & I quite like Sanchez tbf. The only other defenders I would want us to get are Varane, Koulibaly or Umtiti.
VVD would've been good but he's obviously dead to me now.

Most fans don't watch other teams game in game out, but when you look at goals that other teams concede their defensive errors can be quite shocking, and if made by Smalling they'd be calling for their heads.

Agreed.

I'd personally look at VVD, Azpilecueta and Sanchez from the list of regular starters for the top 6 clubs last season. As long as the clubs wanted reasonable amounts for them.

 

[breakout67]

The Xavi/Iniesta part was obviously hyperbole.

But I disagree about the part about Mourinho adapting to the personnel available. Mourinho has his system of play, think of it what you want. It can be really effective when it does work and it can be a complete bore when it doesnt work. He has always played basically the same way with all his teams though IMO. I dont get this narrative that Mourinho historically has been an offensive coach or that this (offensive thinking) is some latent trait of his that is just hindered by these crap footballers at his disposal at the current United. IMO we play the way we do because its the way Mourinho knows how to play and also thinks is the best way to be successful.

I dont know if I am overinterpreting your post but you seem to be one of these people that believe that United play the way we do not because of Mourinho, but in spite of him. And that he actually dreams of electric sheep, sorry: offensive football at night....

I will not go in in detail on what I think constitutes the basics of Mourinhos system more than to say (since this started with Smalling) that of the axioms is to have the CMs be responsible for circulating possession, and most importantly: have the CMs "below" the first opposition pressing line. And no more than one FB in front of the ball. It effectively means that a Mourinho team always willl have five or even six players behind the ball if possession is lost. This is fundamental for Mourinhos way of playing and why his teams is so good defensively.

On the other hand: it means that the options for playing the ball forward are limited and why a lot of times our circulation of possession ends with a long ball to Lukaku.

I will state a couple of arguments in support of my opinion that the way United play now is very much intentional and has nothing or very little to do with the personnel available:

1. Mourinho has always set up his teams like this. For me this applies even to his great Real Madrid team in his second season there. That was a great example of how a Mourinho team can function when he gets his players onboard. Offensive football it was not though even if they scored a lot of goals.
2. How he has set up United to play under his first two years here; I really dont need to go into this in more detail than to state that the best argument for this being the desired system of play is hanging on to it for two years with no sign of changing it.
3. Player recruitment and retention: Look: if Mourinho wanted to make us play a different type of football, he would have bought completely different players than he has. If the idea was to play with a high line and a high press for example, both acquisitions of Zlatan and Lukaku would be completely off. Great players as they are in Mourinhos system they dont have the mobility or stamina to play a high pressing game. See Zlatans exit from Barcelona. Same goes for Matic. Great player in a defensive system, dont think he would get a sniff under Guardiola or Klopp.
Then there of course is the reliance on Smalling. And the new contract to Fellaini. Etc.

So my opinion is that United play the way we do very much because its how Mourinho wants us to play. Not because he is forced to by the available player

No I don't believe he dreams of offensive football. He adapts to the personnel available. The better the teams the more offensive he will get, while still maintaining a level of defensive stability.

The most 'attacking' Mourinho will get is Chelsea 2005 and Madrid 2012. He dominates the game in a defensive way by closing the spaces and taking advantage of the spaces teams leave when trying to get back into the game.

You've also completely missed the point I was making. I've said explicitly that the way we play is intentional, and Mourinho is not so dogmatic to choose one way or the other. If we had a ball player like Bonucci we would play different because we can, not because he thinks its the 'right way'. His management philosophy is all about identifying strengths and weaknesses not trying to fill a philosophical need.

Mourinho almost exclusively used the striker as a target for long balls. But with Fellaini at his disposal he changes his tactics to use Fellaini as a long ball target as he is really good at it.

 

[Johan07]

No I don't believe he dreams of offensive football. He adapts to the personnel available. The better the teams the more offensive he will get, while still maintaining a level of defensive stability.

The most 'attacking' Mourinho will get is Chelsea 2005 and Madrid 2012. He dominates the game in a defensive way by closing the spaces and taking advantage of the spaces teams leave when trying to get back into the game.

You've also completely missed the point I was making. I've said explicitly that the way we play is intentional, and Mourinho is not so dogmatic to choose one way or the other. If we had a ball player like Bonucci we would play different because we can, not because he thinks its the 'right way'. His management philosophy is all about identifying strengths and weaknesses not trying to fill a philosophical need.

Mourinho almost exclusively used the striker as a target for long balls. But with Fellaini at his disposal he changes his tactics to use Fellaini as a long ball target as he is really good at it.

Yeah, fair points, and I said that I might be overinterpreting your post. We agree on Mourinho historically with Chelsea and Madrid btw. I was trying to make the point that is how a functioning Mourinho team looks.

Most successful managers today have a system that they stick to and is the foundation of how their teams play. I might even agree with you that Mourinho is one of the more flexible managers tactically; compared to Klopp, Guardiola and Simeone for example. We might disagree on how flexible he is though, but thats not really super relevant.

I do think though that if Mourinho thought it was important for us to play a "ballplaying" CB; he would have used one already at his disposal. Or bought one; like Bonucci for example since you referred to him. Dont you think he would have been attainable for us if Mourinho really wanted to get him?

I actually think that Mourinho rates Smalling and thats why he plays him; I also think that he would like to pair Smalling with Maguire. I just dont think ballplaying abilities rates that high with Mourinho.

 

[SteveW]

Yeah, fair points, and I said that I might be overinterpreting your post. We agree on Mourinho historically with Chelsea and Madrid btw. I was trying to make the point that is how a functioning Mourinho team looks.

Most successful managers today have a system that they stick to and is the foundation of how their teams play. I might even agree with you that Mourinho is one of the more flexible managers tactically; compared to Klopp, Guardiola and Simeone for example. We might disagree on how flexible he is though, but thats not really super relevant.

I do think though that if Mourinho thought it was important for us to play a "ballplaying" CB; he would have used one already at his disposal. Or bought one; like Bonucci for example since you referred to him. Dont you think he would have been attainable for us if Mourinho really wanted to get him?

I actually think that Mourinho rates Smalling and thats why he plays him; I also think that he would like to pair Smalling with Maguire. I just dont think ballplaying abilities rates that high with Mourinho.

Finally a rational viewpoint.

Smalling may not be a stylish footballer but he's an effective defender. That's why Jose rates him. People need to look past aesthetics.

 

[Ekeke]

Finally a rational viewpoint.

Smalling may not be a stylish footballer but he's an effective defender. That's why Jose rates him. People need to look past aesthetics.

Yep. And another important factor is Smalling is not between 3 other defenders who are top class.

If we had both fullbacks and his partner sorted for the next couple of years at that point it makes complete sense to look for an upgrade on Smalling. Because we've sorted out both fullbacks and the other CB slot and he's gone from our best defender to the one thats easiest to improve on.

But for right now we're probably 3 great buys away from that stage. And considering how many defenders we tend to need to buy to finally get 1 that looks top class for the foreseeable future, it'll probably take us a good 5+ attempts before we get to that stage. If not more.

 

[arnie_ni]

Finally a rational viewpoint.

Smalling may not be a stylish footballer but he's an effective defender. That's why Jose rates him. People need to look past aesthetics.

Jose and lvg both. I dont have the figures in front of me but id reckon he would be close to the top of the starts list since fergy left fpr outfield players.

 

[luke511]

Why do people want us to sell our second best CB? Bailly > Smalling > Lindelof > Rojo > Jones

He may be a bit awkward looking on the ball but his passing is actually really accurate. Solid at defending too.

 

[11101]

How much of that was the quality of our individuals defenders, and how much of that was a very negative, defensive style of play? Legitimate question. I can't imagine any other top side coveting any of our center halves. Bailly at a push, but he's been bang out of form for a while too.

We play a style that suits him, or we play a style to suit him, as our only CB capable of staying fit. We sit fairly deep and the onus is on the midfield to drop and bring the ball forward, not the defenders. Sitting deep you don't have to worry about balls coming through the lines as much, the opposition will try crosses and if they have a target man, long balls. Smalling is great at dealing with that. The downside is the whole team has to sit further back to prevent huge gaps opening up. Our attack is completely neutered by it.

To progress we really need to move further up the pitch and have defenders comfortable playing that way. On the ball ability is only part of it, you have to have great awareness and communication too to hold the high line and prevent runners in behind. Smalling lacks all three.

 

[breakout67]

Yeah, fair points, and I said that I might be overinterpreting your post. We agree on Mourinho historically with Chelsea and Madrid btw. I was trying to make the point that is how a functioning Mourinho team looks.

Most successful managers today have a system that they stick to and is the foundation of how their teams play. I might even agree with you that Mourinho is one of the more flexible managers tactically; compared to Klopp, Guardiola and Simeone for example. We might disagree on how flexible he is though, but thats not really super relevant.

I do think though that if Mourinho thought it was important for us to play a "ballplaying" CB; he would have used one already at his disposal. Or bought one; like Bonucci for example since you referred to him. Dont you think he would have been attainable for us if Mourinho really wanted to get him?

I actually think that Mourinho rates Smalling and thats why he plays him; I also think that he would like to pair Smalling with Maguire. I just dont think ballplaying abilities rates that high with Mourinho.

It comes down to the point of tactical flexibility. Mourinho does want ball playing CBs but not for the reason to 'build the play' as a central part of his system. He gets a ball playing CB for teams that are weak to that profile of player.

Mourinho will always play in a pragmatic way, he is a swiss army knife type of manager. He rates smalling as a low block defender and so he keeps him. It has little to do with him preferring to play a low block, it has to do with having players for every tactical situation.

 

[Nick7]

whats a low block defender?

 

[11101]

whats a low block defender?

Fancy new term for someone who likes to sit deep.

 

[breakout67]

Fancy new term for someone who likes to sit deep.

It's not new, it's been a term for several years

 

[Johan07]

Chris Smalling!

 

[stevoc]

I assume you are talking about Rojo and Jones? I agree that they should be sold before Smalling, but 50 million is a lot of money.

Well it is but these days it doesn't even buy you a Harry Maguire, i'm not averse to upgrading on Smalling but it should only be to knock Smalling down the pecking order to a back up and get rid of one of the unreliable defenders who just can't say fit.

For me selling Smalling and signing an unknown quantity to replace him while retaining Jones and Rojo would make our group of centrebacks potentially weaker overall.

 

[Christie]

I do think though that if Mourinho thought it was important for us to play a "ballplaying" CB; he would have used one already at his disposal. Or bought one; like Bonucci for example since you referred to him. Dont you think he would have been attainable for us if Mourinho really wanted to get him?

Nope. Mourinho clearly wanted Perisic as he thought it was important for us to play a "touchline hugging" player, but he was not attainable for us even when Mourinho really wanted to get him.

As far as we know Mourinho has a list of 5 players he wants to get and is hoping to get 2 of them, but they haven't been delivered to him. I fear you are overstating our ability to get the players the manager wants.

 

[Johan07]

Nope. Mourinho clearly wanted Perisic as he thought it was important for us to play a "touchline hugging" player, but he was not attainable for us even when Mourinho really wanted to get him.

As far as we know Mourinho has a list of 5 players he wants to get and is hoping to get 2 of them, but they haven't been delivered to him. I fear you are overstating our ability to get the players the manager wants.

Thats clearly not what he meant though. He went in to the transfer window wanting 5 players. Three has been delivered in Fred, Dalot and Grant. Jury is out on if the final two are coming in or not. We will see.

Seems like one of those targets is a CB, but my point (which had nothing to do with what you replied to) was that its not even sure that if we will bring in a CB it will be the "ballplaying one" that everyone thinks. If the rumors regarding Maguire and Mina are true it would indicate that Mourinho first and foremost wants to shore up the aerial ability defensively - and offensively - before putting focus on any ballplaying abilities. Doesnt hurt that at least Maguire is decent in that regard of course.

So my guess (which is all it is of course) is that Mourinho is looking for "another" Smalling to pair with Smalling, not someone to replace him. Truth is that our other 5 CB-options are fairly average in the air, and given that we will most likey sit low again this year, invite a lot of crosses, concede a lot of corners, it makes sense. Kinda. We were not good in this respect last season, especially given the size we have in the team already.

And even if Mina for example would not be first choice, it would give Mourinho the option in certain games against certain opposition play a rock solid central defense defending the penalty area.

Its another debate if that is how United should play, etc.

 

[devilish]

Thats clearly not what he meant though. He went in to the transfer window wanting 5 players. Three has been delivered in Fred, Dalot and Grant. Jury is out on if the final two are coming in or not. We will see.

Seems like one of those targets is a CB, but my point (which had nothing to do with what you replied to) was that its not even sure that if we will bring in a CB it will be the "ballplaying one" that everyone thinks. If the rumors regarding Maguire and Mina are true it would indicate that Mourinho first and foremost wants to shore up the aerial ability defensively - and offensively - before putting focus on any ballplaying abilities. Doesnt hurt that at least Maguire is decent in that regard of course.

So my guess (which is all it is of course) is that Mourinho is looking for "another" Smalling to pair with Smalling, not someone to replace him. Truth is that our other 5 CB-options are fairly average in the air, and given that we will most likey sit low again this year, invite a lot of crosses, concede a lot of corners, it makes sense. Kinda. We were not good in this respect last season, especially given the size we have in the team already.

And even if Mina for example would not be first choice, it would give Mourinho the option in certain games against certain opposition play a rock solid central defense defending the penalty area.

Its another debate if that is how United should play, etc.

So you really believe that Mou dreamt of signing some nobody from Stoke's skip? I am more prone to take things at first value which are

"I gave my club a list of five names a few months ago. I wait to see if it's possible to have one of these players."

 

[Johan07]

So you really believe that Mou dreamt of signing some nobody from Stoke's skip? I am more prone to take things at first value which are

"I gave my club a list of five names a few months ago. I wait to see if it's possible to have one of these players."

 

[Johan07]

If you mean Grant, so yes of course it was his intention and desire to to sign him. Isnt obvious because he did? Do I think that Mourinho pleasured himself under his bedsheets because of this signing? No, but its still an important one since it allows Pereira to go on loan.

Grant wont play a lot of games this year if any, but he will occupy one of the squad places which are not as many as one might think given that Mourinho doesnt love having big squads to begin with.

And I dont get what you mean? Do you really believe that Mourinho wanted to sign 8 new players this window? Thats a third of the squad. I dont think so and given Mourinhos earlier statements regarding us not looking for offensive players in this window and multiple times saying that we are looking for around 4 players, the obvious interpretation of what he said is that he has been looking for an infusion of maximum 5 players this window. We got three. I will be disappointed if its not at least onwe more.

EDIT:
Sorry about the quote, my computer is acting up.
Another thing btw: You could very well say that Pereira is a fourth signing since he didnt occupy a squad place last year and seems to have done enough to grab one this season.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

So you really believe that Mou dreamt of signing some nobody from Stoke's skip? I am more prone to take things at first value which are

"I gave my club a list of five names a few months ago. I wait to see if it's possible to have one of these players."

You should check out the fake quotes thread.

Jose gave the club 5 names for one position.

 

[devilish]

You should check out the fake quotes thread.

Jose gave the club 5 names for one position.

I think i've watched him saying it on ESPN or MUTV. However, lets just pretend its 'fake'. Mou is happy with us getting a kid, some washed up goalkeeper from Stoke and a player from the Ukrainian league just as SAF was thrilled replacing the likes of Rio, Vidic, Ronaldo, Giggs and Scholes with the likes of Smalling, Jones, Valencia, Young and Cleverley, Moyes was thrilled when instead of Fabregas they brought him Fellaini and LVG was over the moon having to rely on his former players instead of adding quality players. Not to forget the countless times when SAF asked for 4 players only to suddenly change his mind and say he's happy with the squad.

Anyway its all their fault that we go for players that should be at Everton or the MLS instead with the so called biggest club in the world (sponsors wise not talent on the pitch)