Chelsea u23 - United u23

Classical Mechanic said:
They completely dominated us in the youth cup semi final a few weeks ago as well, although the score line wasn’t embarrassing. City and Chelsea just have more better players than us and have done for a while now. That said, it doesn’t mean United won’t get a few gems from this group, just that eleven vs eleven there’s a gulf. The way this Chelsea team presses just looks like better coaching too.
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Tbf in first half that youth Cup game could have been 6 in first half.
 
So how come not many Chelsea and City youth make it into the first team? Not given a chance or not good enough?
 
Davie Moyes said:
So how come not many Chelsea and City youth make it into the first team? Not given a chance or not good enough?
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I think it's all about the way players are developed in the academy. Man utd focus in individual development over tactical development. It makes it easier for our academy graduates to make the jump to senior football and even life outside football if they don't make it.
 
STYLOISRED said:
I think it's all about the way players are developed in the academy. Man utd focus in individual development over tactical development. It makes it easier for our academy graduates to make the jump to senior football and even life outside football if they don't make it.
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Good point. I was thinking along these lines too. You can really see it in some the recent young graduates we have on the first team like Rashford and Mctominay who are very well rounded characters.
 
If you make so many crazy mistakes against Chelsea on youth level then such a scoreline is no shock......we were lucky that they were without Peart-Harris and Fiabema.

A shame there is now no match for this team in the next weeks because i would have liked to see their answer to this result and performance.
 
kundalini said:
United:

Woolston 22, Laird 19 (20 in August), Fernandez 17 (18 in March), Fish 17 (18 in Feb), Mengi 18 (19 in April), Galbraith 19 (20 in May), Puigmal 19 (20 in Jan), Mejbri 17 (18 in Jan), Pellistri 18 (19 on Sunday), Elanga 18 (19 in April), Shoretire 16 (17 in Feb)
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Regardless of the score, we still have 4/5 excellent prospects in that line up. If they can be mentally strong enough and lucky with injuries then I’d expect them to make it as first team players.
 
Davie Moyes said:
So how come not many Chelsea and City youth make it into the first team? Not given a chance or not good enough?
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Chelsea gave more minutes to academy players than any other side in the league last season. United were second. I think with City you have to give them a few more years before saying they don’t bring anyone through as their investment in their academy should start to reap reward in the next 3-5 years. That said, I’d guess they will continue buying in ready made players for their first team and only a few academy players will get a look in.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Chelsea gave more minutes to academy players than any other side in the league last season. United were second. I think with City you have to give them a few more years before saying they don’t bring anyone through as their investment in their academy should start to reap reward in the next 3-5 years. That said, I’d guess they will continue buying in ready made players for their first team and only a few academy players will get a look in.
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yeah since their transfer ban they do seem to be playing more youth team players to be fair.
 
STYLOISRED said:
I think it's all about the way players are developed in the academy. Man utd focus in individual development over tactical development. It makes it easier for our academy graduates to make the jump to senior football and even life outside football if they don't make it.
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I'd like to agree with you but is there enough evidence to support this claim? I mean Chelsea products seem to be littering the leagues and doing quite well. Lamptey in particular is a gem I think they will regret.

As for life outside, I think we've always stipulated at youth level that we'd try to find them careers in football or in other fields. Chelsea and other academies must do the same. I can't for the life of me believe that there aren't great occupational therapists etc from Brighton to Newcastle who don't look out for the welfare of young people.
 
Calamitous game, from the stupid starting formation to the individual errors...Game to forget.

Still got high hopes for plenty of that team though.
 
Inigo Montoya said:
I'd like to agree with you but is there enough evidence to support this claim? I mean Chelsea products seem to be littering the leagues and doing quite well. Lamptey in particular is a gem I think they will regret.

As for life outside, I think we've always stipulated at youth level that we'd try to find them careers in football or in other fields. Chelsea and other academies must do the same. I can't for the life of me believe that there aren't great occupational therapists etc from Brighton to Newcastle who don't look out for the welfare of young people.
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I don’t know the stats exactly, but I’d imagine the measure here would be number of academy graduates playing for the first team consistently, not littering the lower leagues or even first team premier league clubs.

off the top of my head, I’d say our academy has provided a lot more benefit in recent years than Chelsea, irrespective of youth cup wins.

City probably have a great youth set up, but Foden aside, no one is making the jump
 
Isn't the lad we signed from Monaco in the summer ready for the step up to this level?
 
This same team could beat Chelsea IMO. But we Decided to shoot ourselves in the foot and gifted Chelsea a 2-0 lead in the first few minutes.

Also the tactical setup especially in midfield was very strange. Galbraith was deployed in midfield as the holding midfielder on his own with Mejbri and Shoretire pushed too high in central areas in offensive transition. I'd honestly love to hear what the thinking behind that was against such a strong Chelsea team. Galbraith was constantly out numbered and didn't have a chance to beat the press.
 
Mickson said:
I see many on Twitter saying United are so young. The two teams were about the same age btw. United's average age was 18.2. For Chelsea 18.7, and Chelsea had a 26-year-old CB. Almost everyone in their team is 17, 18, 19, just like United.
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It’s the same old lazy excuse that is trotted out every time our teams lose. It’s embarrassing.

It had nothing to do with being older or more physical and everything to do with better footballers and a better set up. They were technically better, they were positionally better and they were most definitely tactically better.

It’s a wake up call to how much better they are but it’ll be excused by the usual physicality bullshit. Livramento has destroyed multiple times now and it isn’t because he’s bigger than everyone.

The entire tactics the other day were a mess. Wtf was even the plan? What was Puigmal doing? We basically played a back 4 with Puigmal as an extra RWB despite Laird playing just as wide and high on the right as Fernandez. Made no sense and Puigmal ended up doing nothing.

It’s also yet another match where our midfield is completely overrun and offers feck all protection for the defence. Last years midfield 3 of Galbraith, Levitt, and Garner shits all over this one of Galbraith, Mejbri and Puigmal.

Mengi has looked, if we’re honest, fairly shit since stepping back down. Shoretire is still clearly out of his depth. Why is he a guaranteed starter? Why is he not getting time with the u18s? We played down two men because of it. Shoretire is non-existent and Puigmal played a made up position. Elanga literally does zero defensive work and his attacking is nowhere near good enough to warrant that. Fernandez is then left exposed constantly which he struggles to deal with. Pellistri clearly doesn’t train with the side either as he’s 99% of the time on a completely different wavelength to everyone.

All in all there are plenty of holes in the side and plenty of holes in the individual players’ games. And it ain’t because of physicality.
 
The midfield of Garner, Levitt and Galbraith can't be compared to the use of the current options because last year we played with structure with those players occupying space in the defensive phase. Both Garner and Levitt are deeper midfielders too so it provides balance with Galbraith in a more advanced role.

In yesterdays game Shoretire IMO should've been dropped but for some reason he was shoe horned into the team. McCann should've played instead alongside Galbraith with Mejbri in a advanced role.
 
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Red_toad said:
Regardless of the score, we still have 4/5 excellent prospects in that line up. If they can be mentally strong enough and lucky with injuries then I’d expect them to make it as first team players.
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I don't follow a lot of reserve team football. Out of that line-up who do you think are the 4/5 players who have it in them to make the step up to first team?
 
Caesar2290 said:
I don't follow a lot of reserve team football. Out of that line-up who do you think are the 4/5 players who have it in them to make the step up to first team?
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If they are driven enough and avoid injuries then yes. But that’s in an ideal world.
 
Lost 6-1 and you lot are talking as though the next 10 years are doomed.

The first team lost 6-1 a few games ago and the Main Forum still thinks we’re going to win the league.
 
limerickcitykid said:
It’s the same old lazy excuse that is trotted out every time our teams lose. It’s embarrassing.

It had nothing to do with being older or more physical and everything to do with better footballers and a better set up. They were technically better, they were positionally better and they were most definitely tactically better.

It’s a wake up call to how much better they are but it’ll be excused by the usual physicality bullshit. Livramento has destroyed multiple times now and it isn’t because he’s bigger than everyone.

The entire tactics the other day were a mess. Wtf was even the plan? What was Puigmal doing? We basically played a back 4 with Puigmal as an extra RWB despite Laird playing just as wide and high on the right as Fernandez. Made no sense and Puigmal ended up doing nothing.

It’s also yet another match where our midfield is completely overrun and offers feck all protection for the defence. Last years midfield 3 of Galbraith, Levitt, and Garner shits all over this one of Galbraith, Mejbri and Puigmal.

Mengi has looked, if we’re honest, fairly shit since stepping back down. Shoretire is still clearly out of his depth. Why is he a guaranteed starter? Why is he not getting time with the u18s? We played down two men because of it. Shoretire is non-existent and Puigmal played a made up position. Elanga literally does zero defensive work and his attacking is nowhere near good enough to warrant that. Fernandez is then left exposed constantly which he struggles to deal with. Pellistri clearly doesn’t train with the side either as he’s 99% of the time on a completely different wavelength to everyone.

All in all there are plenty of holes in the side and plenty of holes in the individual players’ games. And it ain’t because of physicality.
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You have some points, even though I generally think that Neil Wood sets up this team in a good way and I think there are some really good players there. But yeah, as I said, you have good points. Regarding Elanga, I don't know why he plays centrally so often. He's not as good as a striker. Use him as a left-winger and put in a real striker who can take advantage of all his balls into the box. Therefore, Hugill should always play and Shoretire shouldn't play as much.

I agree with Adnan that McCann should've played this game and Wood experimenting with 3 at the back was not a good decision.

In general:

Mastny (Woolston should almost never play)
Laird, Fish, Mengi, Fernandez
Puigmal, Galbraith, Hannibal
Pellistri, Hugill, Elanga
 
Classical Mechanic said:
They completely dominated us in the youth cup semi final a few weeks ago as well, although the score line wasn’t embarrassing. City and Chelsea just have more better players than us and have done for a while now. That said, it doesn’t mean United won’t get a few gems from this group, just that eleven vs eleven there’s a gulf. The way this Chelsea team presses just looks like better coaching too.
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Of course they are better - but when you are 2 down before the game starts - the game is over. It happens once in a while, just look at Bielsa. But with Chelsea it looks like they target certain playertypes which are physically much stronger than us - so many of the players that have broken into the P.L and Championship are physically very strong - and at this level that helps a lot as well.

We tend to go the other way - and a few years back I questioned this as we often lack physically imposing players
 
Sean_RedDevil said:
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Thank you for posting. A few observations, based entirely on the highlights as I did not see the match.

How many times did Galbraith and Hannibal lose the ball in the middle of the park, trying to dribble or turn their way out of trouble? It must have happened ten times just in the highlights.

That "tackle" from Fernandez for the pk and 4th goal was terrible. Just a lazy attempt at a tackle that got nowhere close.

I like how we have people offering hopeful words of mitigation, saying the Chelsea lads are just bigger, stronger faster etc. But then their number 11 was terrorizing our lads and he looked tiny.

And it looks like they could have easily hit us for double digits.

Oh well. Learning experience for them and I hope they look pissed off in the next match.
 
This is youth football ffs, this kind of games happen sometimes. Not a big deal. Why Shoretire is playing? Probably cause our coaches think that he is better prospect that McCan for example, and that playing against top side at this level will bring him some experience and will help him develop. It is not only about result in youth football, or to say it is not at all about results. It is about players development, and sometimes even defeats like this one will help some of them to understand game better and understand what they have to work on and why. So, not a big deal for me, although it never looks good.

I can see lads drooling about Chelsea academy, but can you name a few players from their Academy that have played serious role for their team in the last 10-15 years since they are investing serious money in the setup. I can name a few in other clubs, but beside Christensen I really can't name one for Chelsea. In that aspect, and it is at least for me, the only important thing in Academy, we are miles better even with a decade or more of having bad results at this level (and not only results).

So, I would not judge those kids on that one game. They made mistakes. Obviously some of them are not training with the rest of the team which is certainly not good for any kind of tactical approach. And at the end it is important to have one or two in the next 2 years in competition for a place in first team squad, and it looks like it will happen.
 
KevinJoh said:
This is youth football ffs, this kind of games happen sometimes. Not a big deal. Why Shoretire is playing? Probably cause our coaches think that he is better prospect that McCan for example, and that playing against top side at this level will bring him some experience and will help him develop. It is not only about result in youth football, or to say it is not at all about results. It is about players development, and sometimes even defeats like this one will help some of them to understand game better and understand what they have to work on and why. So, not a big deal for me, although it never looks good.

I can see lads drooling about Chelsea academy, but can you name a few players from their Academy that have played serious role for their team in the last 10-15 years since they are investing serious money in the setup. I can name a few in other clubs, but beside Christensen I really can't name one for Chelsea. In that aspect, and it is at least for me, the only important thing in Academy, we are miles better even with a decade or more of having bad results at this level (and not only results).

So, I would not judge those kids on that one game. They made mistakes. Obviously some of them are not training with the rest of the team which is certainly not good for any kind of tactical approach. And at the end it is important to have one or two in the next 2 years in competition for a place in first team squad, and it looks like it will happen.
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Go on I'll have a go. Tammy Abraham, Reece James, Mason Mount, Hudson Odoi, Nathan Ake, Loftus Cheek. Tomori, Lamptey, Bertrand with couple of notable ones that got away in Declan Rice, Nketiah for Arsenal and Brewster.
 
El Zoido said:
It’s called FotMob, I’ve been using it for years and it’s brilliant. You can choose which teams to follow (including women’s football), which games and leagues you get alerts from, etc. I highly recommend it.
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Yes I got that. I love it when the away team scores and it goes ahhh.
 
Bigsid said:
Go on I'll have a go. Tammy Abraham, Reece James, Mason Mount, Hudson Odoi, Nathan Ake, Loftus Cheek. Tomori, Lamptey, Bertrand with couple of notable ones that got away in Declan Rice, Nketiah for Arsenal and Brewster.
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As I said in their team...Ake, Bertrand, Lamptey did not really made any kind of serious impact in Chelsea and ended career there pretty fast (although Chelsea did make profit on them). Mentioning them is like if we say that Pereira, Januzaj, Brandon Williams for example. And I also mentioned current crop is obvious, but we know why. So maybe Hudson Odoi as an example (but again in Januzaj category). So, yes, they did earn some money from youth project, if that was the goal of the setup with hundreds of players loaned everywhere and than sold for some profit, but in terms of developing players for your own first team, I would not say they have been successful.
 
KevinJoh said:
As I said in their team...Ake, Bertrand, Lamptey did not really made any kind of serious impact in Chelsea and ended career there pretty fast (although Chelsea did make profit on them). Mentioning them is like if we say that Pereira, Januzaj, Brandon Williams for example. And I also mentioned current crop is obvious, but we know why. So maybe Hudson Odoi as an example (but again in Januzaj category). So, yes, they did earn some money from youth project, if that was the goal of the setup with hundreds of players loaned everywhere and than sold for some profit, but in terms of developing players for your own first team, I would not say they have been successful.
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So Reece James, Mount, Odoi and Abraham have not been developed for Chelseas first team despite playing over 200 games between them? I give up! You serious? Hudson Odoi has been valued at over 70 million alone by Munich. Can't remember Januzaj being offered the same.
 
Bigsid said:
So Reece James, Mount, Odoi and Abraham have not been developed for Chelseas first team despite playing over 200 games between them? I give up! You serious? Hudson Odoi has been valued at over 70 million alone by Munich. Can't remember Januzaj being offered the same.
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Reece James is the only standout player there who will be in their first XI for a long time, the others are squad level though which is still quite a good result from your academy.
 
TwoSheds said:
Reece James is the only standout player there who will be in their first XI for a long time, the others are squad level though which is still quite a good result from your academy.
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Will certainly have paid its own way! To suggest Chelseas set of youngsters aren't stronger than ours currently is ridiculous. City's are too. We ain't bad by any means but as you could see during the games in the youth Cup, the recent 18s and 23s games against both sides our teams are far weaker across the groups.
 
Bigsid said:
Will certainly have paid its own way! To suggest Chelseas set of youngsters aren't stronger than ours currently is ridiculous. City's are too. We ain't bad by any means but as you could see during the games in the youth Cup, the recent 18s and 23s games against both sides our teams are far weaker across the groups.
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It wouldn't shock me at all if we continue to have more first team quality players though.
 
TwoSheds said:
It wouldn't shock me at all if we continue to have more first team quality players though.
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Me neither. We have an established culture of providing opportunities for youngsters. It's also easier to do that when we haven't been challenging for titles over the last 8 years and with extra competitions like the Europa League available as the pressure level is less for youngsters than the Champions League.
 
Bigsid said:
Will certainly have paid its own way! To suggest Chelseas set of youngsters aren't stronger than ours currently is ridiculous. City's are too. We ain't bad by any means but as you could see during the games in the youth Cup, the recent 18s and 23s games against both sides our teams are far weaker across the groups.
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This is very harsh on our U18 side, who are currently winning their league ahead of City (Chelsea aren't winning theirs either). Drawing 2-2 with City a couple of weeks ago doesn't suggest we're "far weaker" either.
 
Bigsid said:
Me neither. We have an established culture of providing opportunities for youngsters. It's also easier to do that when we haven't been challenging for titles over the last 8 years and with extra competitions like the Europa League available as the pressure level is less for youngsters than the Champions League.
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Chelsea haven't set particularly high standards either though by and large. End of the day it's hard to bring first team players through, we're pretty good at it and I think we'll continue to be as long as we're putting plenty of focus on the academy and scouting the right players. Chelsea will also keep improving as long as they continue to give their youngsters a go like they have been as it makes their academy even more desirable. City, well, meh, not with Pep there I don't think.
 
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