Charlie McNeill | on loan to Stevenage

K Stand Knut said:
He’s not a first year in the general sense of the word, is he though. He’s been through the youth ranks at city

United have a tendency to play their players at the next level up. Look at the u23s against Salford.1 player over 20 and several (if my memory serves me right) that would still qualify for the u18s.

I would expect that he’ll play most of his games for the u23s this season albeit probably with his first month with the u18s to settle in
Click to expand...
He’s a first year scholar in every sense of the word as that’s what age group he is. I’m guessing you didn’t know what I meant by a first year.

We don’t have a tendency to skip entire age groups at all. You can’t name a single player we’ve done it with because we don’t. Even Mejbri who is higher rated and cost way more played the vast majority of his football for the u18s last year.

If anything over the years we’ve shown a tendency to promote players late compared to other clubs.

1 player over 20 in the u23s is the same as every u23s team. This isn’t unique to us. The u23s is largely 17-19 year olds at all the big clubs. Only Mejbri and Fish are eligible for the u18s and Fish only came in late for an injury.

Charlie McNeil will 100% not be going into the u23s straight away. He has one goal at u18s level. We have several second year forwards that will be promoted before him.
 
I expect the likes of Hoogewerf to be promoted before him to u23, I'd be very surprised if McNeill leapfrogs all of them at u23 level but maybe(and it's very unlikely) that the club rates him at that level.
 
I will imagine that Hoogewerf will be promoted, although he doesn't seem to have been involved in pre-season at all. Maybe he's injured. But I think that he will, eventually, play for the U23s this season. McNeill probably not. But, we have a lot of strikers in our U18 and very few in the U23, and the majority of our U18 strikers (except Hoogewerf) has barely played U18 (Emeran, Mejia etc).
 
KM said:
I expect the likes of Hoogewerf to be promoted before him to u23, I'd be very surprised if McNeill leapfrogs all of them at u23 level but maybe(and it's very unlikely) that the club rates him at that level.
Click to expand...

Neil Wood recently mentioned that alot of the U-23 regulars will be going on loan, so that might explain why there is a chance alot of the younger lads/new lads will be promoted up.
 
limerickcitykid said:
He’s a first year scholar in every sense of the word as that’s what age group he is. I’m guessing you didn’t know what I meant by a first year.

We don’t have a tendency to skip entire age groups at all. You can’t name a single player we’ve done it with because we don’t. Even Mejbri who is higher rated and cost way more played the vast majority of his football for the u18s last year.

If anything over the years we’ve shown a tendency to promote players late compared to other clubs.

1 player over 20 in the u23s is the same as every u23s team. This isn’t unique to us. The u23s is largely 17-19 year olds at all the big clubs. Only Mejbri and Fish are eligible for the u18s and Fish only came in late for an injury.

Charlie McNeil will 100% not be going into the u23s straight away. He has one goal at u18s level. We have several second year forwards that will be promoted before him.
Click to expand...
I appreciate all of that but like @DevilRed said above, a lot of the u23s will be gone on loan soon. Levitt has gone already and I’d be shocked if Garner doesn’t go as well.

If it’s the same interview I’ve just read, he also talked about it being pointless players playing below their level and United pushing players to play above their level.

I completely agree that he won’t be thrown straight in at u23 level but I stand by my opinion that he’ll play most of his games in the u23s.
 
K Stand Knut said:
I appreciate all of that but like @DevilRed said above, a lot of the u23s will be gone on loan soon. Levitt has gone already and I’d be shocked if Garner doesn’t go as well.

If it’s the same interview I’ve just read, he also talked about it being pointless players playing below their level and United pushing players to play above their level.

I completely agree that he won’t be thrown straight in at u23 level but I stand by my opinion that he’ll play most of his games in the u23s.
Click to expand...
Levitt and Garner aren’t forwards so they’re totally irrelevant.

McNeill has done nothing at u18s level. It is in no way below his level.

And I stand by we’ve never put a first year into the u23s and we won’t be doing it with McNeil either. Greenwood didn’t even play more u23s as a first year than u18s. It has never happened, and it still won’t be. Elanga and Helm are already starters and Hoogewerf, Deji, Emeran, and Mejia are all ahead of him. Wellens also can play on the wing and Shoretire is above him too Garnacho is just as rated too. He won’t be playing mainly u23s.
 
limerickcitykid said:
The lad has barely even played u18s. There’s little chance he’d go straight into the u23s, we’ve never just thrown a first year straight into u23s without proving themselves for the 18s.
Click to expand...

We have never had a situation where we have no injury-free strikers either - in addition to basically having our entire attacking U21-team from last year gone (Levitt, Garner, Traore and Chong on loan, Gomes and Ramazani left and Mellor injured)
 
limerickcitykid said:
Levitt and Garner aren’t forwards so they’re totally irrelevant.

McNeill has done nothing at u18s level. It is in no way below his level.

And I stand by we’ve never put a first year into the u23s and we won’t be doing it with McNeil either. Greenwood didn’t even play more u23s as a first year than u18s. It has never happened, and it still won’t be. Elanga and Helm are already starters and Hoogewerf, Deji, Emeran, and Mejia are all ahead of him. Wellens also can play on the wing and Shoretire is above him too Garnacho is just as rated too. He won’t be playing mainly u23s.
Click to expand...

Garner and Levitt aren’t relevant in that they are players of the same age category and level of football.

you’re acting as if this is a massive thing, which I don’t think it is. My opinion is that if he’s that good and we have signed him, I think he’ll play above his age level mainly.
You disagree. Time will tell.

Truthfully, are any of the forward players still in the youth/u23 set-up as heavily lauded as this lad is??
 
K Stand Knut said:
Garner and Levitt aren’t relevant in that they are players of the same age category and level of football.

you’re acting as if this is a massive thing, which I don’t think it is. My opinion is that if he’s that good and we have signed him, I think he’ll play above his age level mainly.
You disagree. Time will tell.

Truthfully, are any of the forward players still in the youth/u23 set-up as heavily lauded as this lad is??
Click to expand...

Elanga is class. And I assume the lad from Atletico must be pretty handy although I agree that it's less likely one of the young foreign lads would get shunted straight up to U23s without having some time to adapt in the 18s, over a lad who was already local and has played in this league for years. Hard to say what will happen with the likes of Mejia though, if he can stay fit he may well quickly show he's ready for U23s who knows. And yeah I would expect Hoogewerf to get the nod over McNeil too assuming he's fit.
 
K Stand Knut said:
Garner and Levitt aren’t relevant in that they are players of the same age category and level of football.

you’re acting as if this is a massive thing, which I don’t think it is. My opinion is that if he’s that good and we have signed him, I think he’ll play above his age level mainly.
You disagree. Time will tell.

Truthfully, are any of the forward players still in the youth/u23 set-up as heavily lauded as this lad is??
Click to expand...
You're specifically talking about a striker so talking about Levitt and Garner is irrelevant

Also for your final question we're actually spoiled for choice with talented strikers, Hoogewerf was considered the best players at Ajax's academy when we signed him, Mejia scored 50 odd goals at Zaragoza and the new lad we've signed from Atletico, Garnacho, is very highly rated by Atletico fans.
 
TwoSheds said:
Elanga is class. And I assume the lad from Atletico must be pretty handy although I agree that it's less likely one of the young foreign lads would get shunted straight up to U23s without having some time to adapt in the 18s, over a lad who was already local and has played in this league for years. Hard to say what will happen with the likes of Mejia though, if he can stay fit he may well quickly show he's ready for U23s who knows. And yeah I would expect Hoogewerf to get the nod over McNeil too assuming he's fit.
Click to expand...

I guess we’ll see soon enough. Reading a few things recently, people seem to think Elanga might be introduced more like Rashford is now and Martial of old whereby he’ll play as a wide/inside forward.

I just think there will be a lot of holes to plug in the u23s by mid-October when the transfer window closes and our best u23 players have been shipped out on loan.

That’ll either be where some of the u18s get moved up a group or their team takes shape and people shine at that level before being moved up too, which is where I suspect McNeil will fit in
 
K Stand Knut said:
I appreciate all of that but like @DevilRed said above, a lot of the u23s will be gone on loan soon. Levitt has gone already and I’d be shocked if Garner doesn’t go as well.

If it’s the same interview I’ve just read, he also talked about it being pointless players playing below their level and United pushing players to play above their level.

I completely agree that he won’t be thrown straight in at u23 level but I stand by my opinion that he’ll play most of his games in the u23s.
Click to expand...
United have a lot of forwards, wingers and attacking midfielders at U18. Promotion to U23 must be based on current performances at U18. We have a couple of forwards who were injured nearly all of last season. We have new recruits in Hugill, Garnacho. Squad moral dictates that - any player promoted to U23s - should be the best current performer(s). It's so obvious I'm baffled me how anyone could disagree.
 
AltiUn said:
You're specifically talking about a striker so talking about Levitt and Garner is irrelevant

Also for your final question we're actually spoiled for choice with talented strikers, Hoogewerf was considered the best players at Ajax's academy when we signed him, Mejia scored 50 odd goals at Zaragoza and the new lad we've signed from Atletico, Garnacho, is very highly rated by Atletico fans.
Click to expand...

Im only specifically talking about a striker because this lad is a striker. I was actually just meaning players at that age category in general. Not strikers alone. I think it’s perfectly relevant, again, your opinion differs.

Let’s wait and see. Like you’ve said, spoilt for choice up front now so be interesting to see who gets game time
 
limerickcitykid said:
And I stand by we’ve never put a first year into the u23s and we won’t be doing it with McNeil either. Greenwood didn’t even play more u23s as a first year than u18s. It has never happened, and it still won’t be. Elanga and Helm are already starters and Hoogewerf, Deji, Emeran, and Mejia are all ahead of him. Wellens also can play on the wing and Shoretire is above him too Garnacho is just as rated too. He won’t be playing mainly u23s.
Click to expand...

Well, while I agree McNeil won't go directly to U23 there is a chance during the season that he will be promoted, depending on the state of U23 and his performances. For example, Hoogewerf who signed for us last summer already had a few games in our U23 at December, so it is not like no way it will happen. Of course, he will start as U18 and we will see from there.

Regarding situation in U18 and U23 with strikers it is weird that we don't have forwards in U23 beside Elanga, and have so many in U18.

Hoogewerf who will go to U23 I guess this year (he will be 18 in February, so at least a bench) as there is no one else who can play and is above him.
Elanga obviously U23,
Sotona U23 (not sure if he still with us),
Emeran is almost 18, so judging by his size and age, he could at some time be in older group. Not sure about injury, so probably a few months with U18 first to get some minutes, and than U23 if everything OK.
Mejia, similar to Emeran, if he is fit.
McNeil also U18, and at some point he will get games with U23
Hugill and Garnacho are 16, so I guess they will start on the bench for U18, and depending on others will move. I guess they can play for U16.
Also we have Shoretire, who will be regular for U18.

Of course, we will have injuries, bad form, who knows what, but it will be interesting to see how will this work.
 
If he turns out good, we will be avoiding paying the middleman Dortmund in this case.
 
KevinJoh said:
Well, while I agree McNeil won't go directly to U23 there is a chance during the season that he will be promoted, depending on the state of U23 and his performances. For example, Hoogewerf who signed for us last summer already had a few games in our U23 at December, so it is not like no way it will happen. Of course, he will start as U18 and we will see from there.

Regarding situation in U18 and U23 with strikers it is weird that we don't have forwards in U23 beside Elanga, and have so many in U18.

Hoogewerf who will go to U23 I guess this year (he will be 18 in February, so at least a bench) as there is no one else who can play and is above him.
Elanga obviously U23,
Sotona U23 (not sure if he still with us),
Emeran is almost 18, so judging by his size and age, he could at some time be in older group. Not sure about injury, so probably a few months with U18 first to get some minutes, and than U23 if everything OK.
Mejia, similar to Emeran, if he is fit.
McNeil also U18, and at some point he will get games with U23
Hugill and Garnacho are 16, so I guess they will start on the bench for U18, and depending on others will move. I guess they can play for U16.
Also we have Shoretire, who will be regular for U18.

Of course, we will have injuries, bad form, who knows what, but it will be interesting to see how will this work.
Click to expand...

The 18's are certainly going to be exciting to watch this season, I'm also lead to believe we will have either an U17 team or plenty of U17 fixtures this season.
 
Hooweverf, Shoretire, Sotona, and Wellens are those next in line to be promoted to the 23s if we need any.

McNeil can play behind the striker so I'd imagine he'll play alongside Mejia or Hugill in attack for the 18s with Iqbal and Svidersky behind them, before the foreign lads get their clearances.
 
The types of signings that will eventually save this club alot of money.

Welcome to the biggest club in Manchester. You're a big time Charlie now ;)
 
K Stand Knut said:
Not sure they will. This is part of their economic model. Sell free/cheap players for big money.
They’ll likely make £1m for this deal and probably a similar amount for anyone-Gittens
Click to expand...

And you consider that big Money ?
 
Another great addition. We need to look at going very far in the UEFA youth league this coming season. Greenwood will obviously stick with the first team but there’s still a huge amount of top talent for that tournament.
 
Love a boyhood fan goal machine. Hopefully, he can push Martial in a season or two.
 
Mcneil, Garnacho , Hoogewerf, Hughill - not short of strikers at U18 are they
and Forson and Shortire look like they have big potential as well as attackers (plus hanibal but I presume he will move to the u23 set up)
 
Chelsea's model is slightly different.

Chelsea would have offered this kid a 20k/week wage, and loaned him 3-4 times before selling him for 5m+

City are selling academy products for 1m.

Both methods allow for booking a financial profit.
 
Ace of Spades said:
Does not look like they are that bothered tbh.
Click to expand...
Considering they’ve dragged it out for months and refused to negotiate and forced it to a tribunal it seems they are in fact bothered by us taking a player.


SinNombre said:
Chelsea's model is slightly different.

Chelsea would have offered this kid a 20k/week wage, and loaned him 3-4 times before selling him for 5m+

City are selling academy products for 1m.

Both methods allow for booking a financial profit.
Click to expand...
Considering all the private school fees, and development costs, and “gifts” they give to parents, City wouldn’t really be making much if any profit with £1m.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Considering all the private school fees, and development costs, and “gifts” they give to parents, City wouldn’t really be making much if any profit with £1m.
Click to expand...

Agreed but that's not what I said.

They are booking an accounting profit with the sale.
 
K Stand Knut said:
Not sure they will. This is part of their economic model. Sell free/cheap players for big money.
They’ll likely make £1m for this deal and probably a similar amount for anyone-Gittens
Click to expand...

Bynoe-Gittens is England’s best attacking prospect in his age group. Losing him for £1m will be suboptimal to say the least.

Remember the clause they put in Diaz’s contract to financially punish Real if they sold to United in the future? They’re petty and pathetic. Losing McNeill to us after nicking him off us in the first place will put their nose out of joint.
 
lysglimt said:
We have never had a situation where we have no injury-free strikers either - in addition to basically having our entire attacking U21-team from last year gone (Levitt, Garner, Traore and Chong on loan, Gomes and Ramazani left and Mellor injured)
Click to expand...
We spent a season with literally no strikers at all injured or not and played McTominay and Willock as strikers. So we’ve basically had the exact same situation just a few seasons ago

The team is overhauled every season. This isn’t new or rare.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.