Charlie McNeill | on loan to Stevenage

pascell said:
I'm glad about the first part, especially the life experience, I bet it's a great and proud feeling having a part of the family playing in some capacity at United, good luck to your son on his journey!

It's also a bit shame about the coaching, I'd have thought that's one of the aspects we got right during the time the academy was under scrutiny and City were building their facilities etc. Hopefully this is something that's addressed sooner rather than later.
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The idea that somebody's dad knows more about coaching than the coaches of one of the world's top academies is something I could be considered to be rather sceptical about. I'm sure we can always improve of course.
 
TwoSheds said:
The idea that somebody's dad knows more about coaching than the coaches of one of the world's top academies is something I could be considered to be rather sceptical about. I'm sure we can always improve of course.
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That's a bit harsh. Surely he's been around and visited a number of setups to be able to tell. Hell he may have played or coached at a decent level himself.
 
Davie Moyes said:
That's a bit harsh. Surely he's been around and visited a number of setups to be able to tell. Hell he may have played or coached at a decent level himself.
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So he's an expert then, fair enough.
 
TwoSheds said:
The idea that somebody's dad knows more about coaching than the coaches of one of the world's top academies is something I could be considered to be rather sceptical about. I'm sure we can always improve of course.
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Didn't lot of utd players used to send their children to city's or some other team's youth academy.
 
Just reading up on Rory Delap's young fella, the little shit plays for England like Stephen Ireland's son!
 
KiD MoYeS said:
Just reading up on Rory Delap's young fella, the little shit plays for England like Stephen Ireland's son!
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I was thinking about this but he might not even qualify for Ireland. Transfermarkedt don't have him as a dual citizen. His dad is English born so if he only qualified for Ireland through the grandparent rule himself would his son even by eligible?
 
Classical Mechanic said:
I was thinking about this but he might not even qualify for Ireland. Transfermarkedt don't have him as a dual citizen. His dad is English born so if he only qualified for Ireland through the grandparent rule himself would his son even by eligible?
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Rory Delaps father is from Donegal, his entire family are from Donegal and Meath. In fact I remember Rory giving an interview on how his father made sure his grandkids considered themselves Irish and how they listen to his father more than they do to him. So I guess they lie down to Granddad Delap
 
TwoSheds said:
So he's an expert then, fair enough.
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I'm not an expert, however, I'm pretty confident I know considerably more than you about the quality of coaching at the academy. It's no big secret the coaching set-up needs to change and improve , hence the internal shake up with personnel, but you wouldn't know anything about that would you?

The fact that this years scholars only contains 3 players that have come through our academy system speaks volumes in my opinion.
 
pascell said:
Yeah it was City, sure it was Fletcher, RvP and someone else.
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Not to comment on anything but 1 facility, but their little u18 pitch with the stands is pretty cool compared to our pitch. Not that it matters, but it's nice looking.
 
Beaucoup said:
I'm not an expert, however, I'm pretty confident I know considerably more than you about the quality of coaching at the academy. It's no big secret the coaching set-up needs to change and improve , hence the internal shake up with personnel, but you wouldn't know anything about that would you?

The fact that this years scholars only contains 3 players that have come through our academy system speaks volumes in my opinion.
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Agreed and it shouldn't be controversial to say that the way youth coaching is executed everywhere is still in many cases behind the times. Yelling at kids, abusing them basically in the name of competitiveness, is still depressingly common. Hell, ice hockey youth coaches encourage the kids to foul each other and try to give each other bloody noses all the time over here, and it's a sport that has a similar level of enthusiasm to it than football has in England, so I imagine it can be quite similar. Kids are still not protected enough in these environments.

Also Nicky Butt and co. coming in has mostly just affected the U18s and upwards, which are already like the best of the best of any given academy.
 
Beaucoup said:
I'm not an expert, however, I'm pretty confident I know considerably more than you about the quality of coaching at the academy. It's no big secret the coaching set-up needs to change and improve , hence the internal shake up with personnel, but you wouldn't know anything about that would you?

The fact that this years scholars only contains 3 players that have come through our academy system speaks volumes in my opinion.
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Everything should always be changing and improving, it doesn't mean it's shit. I think the academy mainly suffered from a lack of organisation and common sense until Butt turned up, doesn't mean there weren't some good coaches there.
 
TwoSheds said:
Everything should always be changing and improving, it doesn't mean it's shit. I think the academy mainly suffered from a lack of organisation and common sense until Butt turned up, doesn't mean there weren't some good coaches there.
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I never said the coaching was shit, I said it was poor, it's also pretty much non-existent. I get the impression 9-16 is pretty much viewed as being nothing more than a cattle market, there is very little done as far as player improvement is concerned. A fair few parents actually pay for additional coaching outside of the Academy for this very reason.

Nicky Butt has got very little to do with the re-vamp of the academy, Nick Cox is the one pulling the strings, hence his promotion to overall head.
 
Beaucoup said:
I never said the coaching was shit, I said it was poor, it's also pretty much non-existent. I get the impression 9-16 is pretty much viewed as being nothing more than a cattle market, there is very little done as far as player improvement is concerned. A fair few parents actually pay for additional coaching outside of the Academy for this very reason.

Nicky Butt has got very little to do with the re-vamp of the academy, Nick Cox is the one pulling the strings, hence his promotion to overall head.
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Nicky Butt appointed Nick Cox...
The transfers and scouting started getting much better long before Cox turned up, and the coaches were already starting to be changed around. I don't know what happened with McClair but he didn't seem to be doing a good job at the end. That's quite a long time ago now though. And we still managed to produce Rashford, Pogba, Lingard and McTominay in that time so the coaching can't have been all that bad.
 
I thought it was part of United plan to give the youngest player "little coaching" compared to a chance to develop skills. And in the games the emphasis is on developing players and to use those skills, like dribbling, rather then developing team skills. That is often mistaken as not coaching enough, but is often what is needed at that age. Later it gets more organised and team oriented.
 
IrishMcD said:
Rory Delaps father is from Donegal, his entire family are from Donegal and Meath. In fact I remember Rory giving an interview on how his father made sure his grandkids considered themselves Irish and how they listen to his father more than they do to him. So I guess they lie down to Granddad Delap
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Cheers. It won’t always make any difference though. Bryan Gunn said that he tried many times to get Angus to play for Scotland but he wanted to play for the country he was born in. On the other hand perhaps Liam will switch when he gets older.
 
oskarutd said:
I thought it was part of United plan to give the youngest player "little coaching" compared to a chance to develop skills. And in the games the emphasis is on developing players and to use those skills, like dribbling, rather then developing team skills. That is often mistaken as not coaching enough, but is often what is needed at that age. Later it gets more organised and team oriented.
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That’s the idea in theory and I fully agree with it, However that isn’t what’s happening and it certainly doesn’t transfer over to match day.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Cheers. It won’t always make any difference though. Bryan Gunn said that he tried many times to get Angus to play for Scotland but he wanted to play for the country he was born in. On the other hand perhaps Liam will switch when he gets older.
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Yeah exactly. Every case is different. You have him and Stephen Irelands son playing underage for England, yet English born players like Kevin Kilbane and Gary Breen are renowned for their pride in being Irish. I was born in England myself to Irish parents, didn't speak English until I was 5, only spoke Irish and moved 'home' to Ireland at 5yo. I have cousins who remained over in England and are there to this day and consider themselves 110% Irish. Even my cousins kids, who's mother is English, consider themselves Irish. I also know people who moved to England for a few years in their 20's and came back with English accents and boast of their love for all things English.
It really depends on how much cultural identity means to the individual family I guess.
 
oskarutd said:
I thought it was part of United plan to give the youngest player "little coaching" compared to a chance to develop skills. And in the games the emphasis is on developing players and to use those skills, like dribbling, rather then developing team skills. That is often mistaken as not coaching enough, but is often what is needed at that age. Later it gets more organised and team oriented.
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Exactly, learning at a early age is much better when playing and having fun. That’s a fact that can’t be denied.
 
Beaucoup said:
That’s the idea in theory and I fully agree with it, However that isn’t what’s happening and it certainly doesn’t transfer over to match day.
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Good to know. Hopefully they get the theory into practise soon. It matters.
 
TwoSheds said:
Nicky Butt appointed Nick Cox...
The transfers and scouting started getting much better long before Cox turned up, and the coaches were already starting to be changed around. I don't know what happened with McClair but he didn't seem to be doing a good job at the end. That's quite a long time ago now though. And we still managed to produce Rashford, Pogba, Lingard and McTominay in that time so the coaching can't have been all that bad.
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If you want to believe Nicky Butt was solely responsible for the appointment of Nick Cox, then that’s up to you. The scouting and transfers dealings did change before Cox arrived, mainly to counter the threat of City and its aggressive recruitment due to it moving to its shiny new academy. When Cox arrived he started to make wholesale changes from the get go and is continuing to do so.

If you also think that a player gets into the first team because he has fantastic coaching you’re deluded, I would say it’s more to do with the individuals talent and desire, mixed with a large slice of luck. Also, using Pogba as an example of our fantastic coaching being responsible for his development is bordering on fantasy.
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Strange that the City coaches don't think McNeil will progress beyond u18 level, nowt wrong with that as most clubs know by the time a kid is 16 whether he will make the grade, or not, so why offer him a four year contract then? I know they've got more money than sense, but ....
 
Class of 63 said:
Strange that the City coaches don't think McNeil will progress beyond u18 level, nowt wrong with that as most clubs know by the time a kid is 16 whether he will make the grade, or not, so why offer him a four year contract then? I know they've got more money than sense, but ....
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just reading the responses from the ITK, I think he might have misunderstood it. It sounds like McNeil was told he won't be featuring above u18 level soon. It doesn't make sense to tell the kid he will never make it above the u18 level for them and then give him a 4 year contract at the age of 16.
 
Amarsdd said:
just reading the responses from the ITK, I think he might have misunderstood it. It sounds like McNeil was told he won't be featuring above u18 level soon. It doesn't make sense to tell the kid he will never make it above the u18 level for them and then give him a 4 year contract at the age of 16.
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Possibly, or maybe City were pushing him to prove them wrong. United are not over-endowed with strikers for the 23s but I doubt McNeil would get a look in this season bar a few cameos unless he puts Greenwood type figures in his goals column for the 18s.
 
khoazany said:
Not sure how we gonna play all of these strikers next season at U18s level
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Currently there is only one forward in U-23, D'Mani. And there is no need to have him here, we should loan him or just let go.
Pretty confident Elanga and Hoogewerf will start for U-23. Maybe they will also push Emeran, though he has not even played for U-18. But he's already 17 and will be 18 in September. Elanga(LW)-Hoogewerf-Emeran(RW) works out nicely.
This leaves U-18 with Shoretire, Sotona, Mejia, Hugill, McNeil (?). Maybe Mejia will be also pushed for U-23.
 
From the YT vid he looks fantastic in the build up with really good awareness and vision. A playmaking forward who is two footed with a hammer of a shot.

That panenka penalty.. :drool:
 


Looks a #10 with a very complete game. Fantastic acceleration, good touch and technique, vision and the ability to score with either foot. Scores different types of goals too.

The pass at 3:48 is just incredible..
 
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