Champions League to increase to 36 teams from 2024

[adexkola]

1. Awarding slots based on "historical performance" can feck off

2. Expanding the amount of slots available for the top 5 leagues can feck off

3. Why is no one concerned about the players having to play more games? We have 4 competitions to consider in England, now they are adding more games...for what?

4. What in this proposal benefits the entirety of European football? Isn't that UEFA's mission, to be more than a discount whore the "traditional big clubs" bend over?

 

[Melbourne Red]

1. Awarding slots based on "historical performance" can feck off

2. Expanding the amount of slots available for the top 5 leagues can feck off

3. Why is no one concerned about the players having to play more games? We have 4 competitions to consider in England, now they are adding more games...for what?

4. What in this proposal benefits the entirety of European football? Isn't that UEFA's mission, to be more than a discount whore the "traditional big clubs" bend over?

All good points

 

[rcoobc]

1. Awarding slots based on "historical performance" can feck off

2. Expanding the amount of slots available for the top 5 leagues can feck off

3. Why is no one concerned about the players having to play more games? We have 4 competitions to consider in England, now they are adding more games...for what?

4. What in this proposal benefits the entirety of European football? Isn't that UEFA's mission, to be more than a discount whore the "traditional big clubs" bend over?

On 1st point. I don't think it's on the cards. They've tried it before but never through a UEFA proposal? Only ECA throwing their weight around.

On 2nd point, agreed top 4 works well, no point in ruining that. I can see them giving them an extra place for the league that wins the CL? Don't think we know how they are allocating the extra 4 spaces but it doesn't sound like the top 4 leagues are getting 5 places. I think it's more likely that CL winning league will get a place, a 4th place will be there for UEFA France (5th league) and the rest allocated down the rest.

On 3rd point, I think it's a red herring. To players are *not* playing more football than ever. In '02 we had more FA Cup rounds, CL qualifying rounds, two group stages and more.

Now days there is no CL qualifying for the big teams (they go straight into group stage), there is fewer FA Cup rounds, etc. These extra 4 games are equivalent to the 2nd group phase which may sound like a lot, but is only 2 more games than we have now for the Europa League teams (they have a Last 32 which is being scrapped). You can argue that less matches means stronger matches, which is probably true, but I don't think this is a huge problem.

On 4th points, benefits I can see are this:

- Clubs that aren't from the "big 3 leagues+PSG" have a chance to compete. The likes of Ajax, Porto, PSV, Benfica, etc are traditionally big clubs but are competing with average Joe from the stronger leagues. People have been complaining for a long time about this. Posters on here have are worried this will lessen then importance of the Premier League which I think is a good thing. Premier League would still be king but gives other teams a chance.

- It might make the Group Stage more interesting. UEFA have done a decent job of this already, but group stages are normally dull dull dull. Leagues are much more interesting. When Real Madrid lose to whomever in La Liga, it has huge effects on the title race. When Real Madrid lose a Group Stage match, who cares?

- Not competing for each others players is an amazing idea and will do football a world of good. I'm skeptical that it will happen.

 

[babablue]

"Even floated now is banning CL teams from signing players from each other"

Most ridiculous thing I've read in the last 10 minutes on here.

It's actually not. I personally think it's deviously brilliant and is a half-way step to a super league. I can see it achieving a few things.

• Most obvious is that it will pretty much centralize all good players to CL teams as non-CL teams will be raided.
• I think it will actually keep teams in the CL competitive. Now when Ajax or Monaco of a few years ago happens, they actually get to keep their players. Where this gets interesting is being stuck at one of those teams and not being able to move to a team that can pay more, the natural solution being some kind of salary cap.
• It also reduces player power. A player is less likely to throw a tantrum, as his only out is a 'demotion' to a non CL team.

 

[Botim]

If tonight wasn't a perfect argument for why we need more knock-out games instead of more group stage games, then nothing is.

 

[PSV]

Would love for all games to be knockout games, but with double elimination group stages.

Group Stage 1 (32 teams) - 4 to 6 games each.
Group Stage 2 (16 teams) - 4 to 6 games each.
Quarterfinals, semifinals, finals - 5 games.

Other ideas to improve CL:
- Retained slots. At least 8 teams, upwards to 16/24 with the rest dumped down to EL for following year. Again, double elimination.
- No coefficients besides last season's performance to determine seeds.
- Use EL as a buffer tier for teams to prove they deserve to be in the CL. No domestic performance puts you into CL alone.
- No country limits, but two paths to qualification with adjusted amount of slots based off of participating nations (EL) to keep a healthy pool of nations involved.

Trading away some charm for power I suppose.

 

[Brightonian]

Fecking horrible changes all round if true.

And the no signings from other CL teams thing is not 'genius', it is practically unworkable for about ten different reasons. I'd be very surprised if it was ever seriously on the table and absolutely flabbergasted if anything like that gets through. The powerful teams, the ones who control this conversation thanks to the threat of a European super-league, all rely on signing players from other CL-quality teams. They would never countenance it.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

so six groups with six teams in each? How does this work for final 16? if 3 from each group make it to the knock out stage that leaves with 18 and the math just doesn't work then. 32 is the perfect amount for a tournament. Anything else just gets confusing...

 

[Wiltord02]

Would love for all games to be knockout games, but with double elimination group stages.

Group Stage 1 (32 teams) - 4 to 6 games each.
Group Stage 2 (16 teams) - 4 to 6 games each.
Quarterfinals, semifinals, finals - 5 games.

They tried a similar two group stage format from 1999-2003.

Can't say I was a fan.

The competition as a whole needs more 2 legged knockout games. The more group games we get, the worse it will be.

 

[Botim]

so six groups with six teams in each? How does this work for final 16? if 3 from each group make it to the knock out stage that leaves with 18 and the math just doesn't work then. 32 is the perfect amount for a tournament. Anything else just gets confusing...

There won't be any groups anymore. It will be one big "league" with all 36 teams. Each team plays 10 games (against 10 different opponents, drawn according to placing in "pots").

The top 8 qualify immediately for the next round. Places 9-24 play a play-off to determine the other 8 to reach the round of 16.

So a lot more games, but all in the group stage.

The extra four places will be determined in the following way: two clubs by the UEFA coefficient rankings, one extra for the fifth ranked league (French Ligue 1) and another place for the best league that doesn't have a representative.

 

[MattofManchester]

The way football is changing, it's becoming a sport that I'm quickly beginning to lose interest in watching.

 

[PSV]

They tried a similar two group stage format from 1999-2003.

Can't say I was a fan.

The competition as a whole needs more 2 legged knockout games. The more group games we get, the worse it will be.

Actually just realized how confusing the wording was, with all the doubles involved. I thought I had the correct term, but the one I was looking for would be a "dual tournament format".

It's a format where you play double legged ties, but within a group stage. You can lose twice before being eliminated.

I can't embed images, but here's a link to a photo explaining it. I think it's mostly used in e-sports, but it's a really clever format.

Here's an example of how it would play out in football:

Spoiler

Game 1:
Team A vs Team D 5-0
Team B vs Team C 2-3

Game 2:
Team D vs Team A 1-1 (1-6 agg).
Team C vs Team B 2-0 (5-2 agg).

Game 3:
Team A vs Team C 0-2
Team D vs Team B 3-3

Game 4:
Team C vs Team A 1-4 (3-4 agg). -> Team A has won twice and advances.
Team B vs Team D 1-0 (4-3 agg). -> Team D has lost twice and is knocked out.

Game 5:
Team B vs Team C 2-2

Game 6:
Team C vs Team B 0-2 (2-4 agg) -> Team B has won twice and advances, Team C has lost twice and is knocked out.

So a double win (and double loss for that matter) saves you games 5 and 6.
Winning and losing turns into a bigger deal.

 

[visiting villain]

So this would be going concurrently with the PL/La Liga/Bundesliga/Ligue 1/Serie A? I don't see how the "no transfers" between champions league clubs would be enforceable.

 

[saivet]

Is the a simple explanation of how the group stage would work? Has it been done in other sports? It seems confusing from my first impressions.

 

[Botim]

Is the a simple explanation of how the group stage would work? Has it been done in other sports? It seems confusing from my first impressions.

It's really not that complicated. See here for the full explanation.

There's one group with 36 teams.

Each team plays 10 games against 10 different opponents. Games are drawn according to rankings or pots (so you play a fair amount of games against teams with higher/lower rankings). No teams play each other more than once. And you don't face every team in the group.

After these 10 games, the highest ranked 8 (based on points earned) go through to the round of 16.

Numbers 9-24 play each other in a play-off (9 vs 24, 10 vs 23, 11 vs 22, etc). The 8 winners of these playoff ties also advance to the round of 16.

 

[Dan_F]

I don’t really understand the transfer thing. So if we wanted to sell Pogba, he wouldn’t be able to go to another team in the Champions League?

 

[rcoobc]

so six groups with six teams in each? How does this work for final 16? if 3 from each group make it to the knock out stage that leaves with 18 and the math just doesn't work then. 32 is the perfect amount for a tournament. Anything else just gets confusing...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/56325695

Instead of eight groups of four playing six games each as is currently the case, all teams would play 10 matches against opponents of varying strengths and decided on each club's Uefa ranking.

Results in these matches would form an overall table which, along with some two-legged play-offs, would determine qualification for the post-Christmas knockout rounds.

The individual European leagues want the four additional places to go to champions of 'middle-tier' countries - leagues whose champions do not already automatically go through to the group stage - and be decided on sporting merit.

But the likelihood is two of the places will be given as 'wildcards' - with England likely to benefit from an additional fifth place - which could be decided on co-efficient.

 

[rcoobc]

It's really not that complicated. See here for the full explanation.

There's one group with 36 teams.

Each team plays 10 games against 10 different opponents. Games are drawn according to rankings or pots (so you play a fair amount of games against teams with higher/lower rankings). No teams play each other more than once. And you don't face every team in the group.

After these 10 games, the highest ranked 8 (based on points earned) go through to the round of 16.

Numbers 9-24 play each other in a play-off (9 vs 24, 10 vs 23, 11 vs 22, etc). The 8 winners of these playoff ties also advance to the round of 16.

That bottom bit is horrible. Just do "top 16 go through". No the top 24 from 36 teams. What is the point.

I don’t really understand the transfer thing. So if we wanted to sell Pogba, he wouldn’t be able to go to another team in the Champions League?

Who knows.

 

[Berbaclass]

 

[cyberman]

Cant say this doesnt help us in the near future but it doesn't sit right with me

 

[rotherham_red]

Cant say this doesnt help us in the near future but it doesn't sit right with me

Just bring back the old system. Champions play champions. 2nd + 3rd go into UEFA Cup and bring back the CWC.

Lessens the physical burden on the players and it adds prestige to the 2nd and 3rd tier European competitions.

 

[rcoobc]

36 -> 24 after 10 games is the stupidest thing I've ever heard

 

[Mrs Smoker]

Possibly interesting. @SinNombre

 

[Mb194dc]

Sounds like there will still be lots of fairly meaningless initial games before we get to the knockout stage which will actually then be interesting. Kind of like brand dilution but for football.

They'll probably find the rights value doesn't increase as they expect as people just won't want to watch a lot of it.

 

[Stack]

Sounds like there will still be lots of fairly meaningless initial games before we get to the knockout stage which will actually then be interesting. Kind of like brand dilution but for football.

They'll probably find the rights value doesn't increase as they expect as people just won't want to watch a lot of it.

I dont watch that many of the group games as it is. Its strange but we have too much football but the powers that be want to push even more on us. 4 league competitions in England, a couple of European cup competitions, Euro champs qualifiers and finals, WC qualifiers and finals, World club cups. We also have the growth of Womens football ( a great thing btw) and the amount of football available to watch is just too much. Maybe Im just old and jaded on it but Im finding my enthusiasm has dropped over the last decade.