Took Niko Kovac so long to realise he was way better than Pletikosa.
Champions League Last 16 games - Feb/Mar 2015
- Thread starter Sarni
- Start date
Took Niko Kovac so long to realise he was way better than Pletikosa.
English football, for all it's brilliance (I still believe it to be the most entertaining league in the world), has been a bit hit and miss in Europe. It's never really taken to the Europa League, the seven years between '05 and '12 in the Champions League will be difficult to replicate.[/QUOTE]
This new Sky deal will certainly help all the top premiership clubs step up again, but you do wonder if there's more to it than just putting 11 top players out on the pitch for our teams, winter break, better coaching, different style of play, I don't know but something's clearly not working.
This new Sky deal will certainly help all the top premiership clubs step up again, but you do wonder if there's more to it than just putting 11 top players out on the pitch for our teams, winter break, better coaching, different style of play, I don't know but something's clearly not working.
Losing a fair number of players to Spain, particularly, has hurt a lot. Since we won in 2008, top players like Ronaldo, Alonso, Mascherano, Bale, Suarez, Pique, and Modric have all gone from the PL to Real and Barca. Given the amount of money coming into the PL now, I don’t see that being the case for much longer.
The best part of Berbatov's goal was his run. At the half-way line he puts his arms up and calls for the ball and he's in between a walk and a jog. A couple more strides and he puts his head down to shift into second gear for the slowest goalbound run I have ever seen.
Modric and Bale rarely played in the CL while at Spurs and Pique was never an important player for Manchester United.
English clubs have bought plenty of big players from Spain too though, and they're often elevated to the best in England once they join despite not being at that level in Spain, because the level of quality in the league is lower. Another key point is that Spanish clubs are much better at developing their own players, that's why they continue to compete in Europe (Europa league specifically) despite having a fraction of the budget of English clubs and despite losing their best players to English sides.
The tie is not over yet. One goal could turn things around in the second leg. They lost 3-1 against Bayern at home too a couple of years ago and then won 2-0 away and were just barely knocked out, and that was Bayern. Arsenal are much better than Monaco, so this not over yet.
Yeah, Pletikosa was an automatic starter for too long. Now number one is Subašić's for years to come.
May be we should ask this guy..
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/arsenal-jihadist-ex-footballer-abu-issa-3376223
Player quality is part of it, but it's mostly tactical. English football has largely ignored the tactical developments of the last half dozen years, especially in terms of collective pressing. You get a ridiculous amount of space in many PL games. Look at how much Southampton accomplish by employing a modern system; others need to do the same and that in combination with the money will make the PL more competitive in Europe once more.
Sure, but it's a talent drain from the league and that talent has funneled straight into the teams that won 3 of the last 6 CLs. It's a sign of the great money advantage that the top 2 in Spain have enjoyed since the PL was at its best.
Aye, that's probably true. Easier said than done though, at the minute it seems like most of the English sides think they can solve all their problems by just chucking more money down on players instead of sorting their youth development, coaches and tactics.
We (Utd) currently have a European manager who can't implement a successful European tactical layout.
Agreed on all that, though I'd say that there has been a spread of teams buying players in the PL while in Spain it's been mostly 2 teams buying the PL's best. The teams in the PL have been able to get 1 or 2 players from the Spanish giants but then it's spread amongst 4 or 5 teams. But yes, I take your point that players like Michu don't stand out much in Spain and then come to the PL looking like world beaters.
England hasn't been great at developing talent in ages, has it? United, Liverpool, and Chelsea in the 2000s were all largely built on imports. But at the time, they were - mostly - the best money could buy. Now players of that caliber are in Spain, Bayern, PSG.
Van Gaal's Bayern had a problem with pressing football, too. They didn't employ it and couldn't deal with it very well, either. I think it's just not how he likes his teams to play, it doesn't fit his vision of ideal football, his "philosophy" if you like. He is quite useful for teaching players possession football and positional play, but if we really want to be successful, I think we'd fare better with a young, modern manager. Pep's the stand-out of course, but someone like Koeman or Tuchel would do really well, too.
I do not want Koeman here but would love the other two options you suggested, obviously Pep is the front runner.
I'm immediately a bit sceptical of that statement. Haven't most of the best Spanish imports been top players in Spain too? Aguero, Silva, Costa... Özil and Di Maria haven't fared better in England than Spain, I suspect. Maybe Sanchez fits your category, but surely he was highly rated in Spain too? Plenty of decent players have come from Spain and not really impressed in PL (Navas, Negredo, Filipe Luis, jury's out on Herrera). I don't really know though.
I probably did understate how they were ranked in Spain before they moved actually, you're right about that. Though I don't think Navas or Negredo have done any worse in England, neither were anything other than good players in Spain - Soldado would probably be a better example.
Anyway, if you look at the top 10 or 15 players in England now the majority are from Spain - Agüero, Silva, Diego Costa, Yaya Touré, Cesc, Alexis, Courtois, de Gea. Once upon a time you could have thrown Mata in there too, Alonso, Torres etc. So I still think it's true that England have benefited more from Spanish imports than the other way around.
With the exception of Filipe Luis, I would not say the other three have failed to impress. In their time in England have/did Negredo and Navas really perform much worse than they did in Spain? For his first few months Negredo was phenomenal and only dropped off after his injury and was clearly unsettled by personal issues. Navas has had patches of good form but generally is solid if unspectacular, which is how I always imagined him to be for Seville. Herrera has done well for United and I do not believe he was anything exceptional in Spain so he could easily end up justifying his price-tag if given some more time to adapt and settle. It seems to me that on the whole the Spanish imports do progress as players in England. You can argue it is natural progression, but nothing is certain in football, and Aguero, Silva, Costa, Sanchez, De Gea, Toure etc. all seem to have furthered themselves over here.
Yeah, massive Spanish influence these days, but it seems I'm right that they're not "second tier" La Liga players finding the PL easier, it's rather PL money being able to bring in some of the top talents from that league.
When it comes to United unfortunately La Liga have benefited more from us than us from them, I'd say. Thanks for De Gea though.
I don't follow La Liga close enough, I'm just going off what I've read. However, my point was that my impression isn't that players from La Liga generally find it easier in the PL. Isn't that true of Navas etc too?
I just got off a plane to the result. As if my impending 14 hour flight home wasn't depressing enough.
oh god, what a shitty day, where were u flying from?
Usual shite from Arsenal....Why anyone expected differently is beyond me
New York - LA - Melbourne. 24 hours of travel
I would cry as Arsenal fan tonight.......there can be no excuses for that performance!!!!!
But to be honest everything that is wrong about Arsenal over the last 5-6....we saw tonight.
Countless teams have beaten Arsenal in the exact same way over the past 5-6 years in national and european competitions.
Like Pellegrini yesterday......wrong and crazy starting XI by Wenger today!!!!
Monaco weren't great but their tactics were brilliant.
Interesting words of Jardim in the post-match press conference "We analysed Arsenal’s games beforehand and knew they’ve always been a bit stronger in first half of games and struggle a bit after".
But you can't just blame Wenger......you can't score the 1-2 in the 90.min (That result was already terrible) and then be so stupidly open in the defence to concede another goal (1-3 is a totally disaster).
More Arsenal players should train more their brain.
Arsenal must score 3 goals at Stade Louis II.....Monaco's stats are speaking a little bit against a Arsenal miracle in 3 weeks.
- 14 clean-sheets in the last 18 games in all competitions
- They have conceded just 1 goal in the last 10 league matches
- They have conceded just 2 goals in the 7 CL matches this season.......no goal conceded at home
+
But to be honest everything that is wrong about Arsenal over the last 5-6....we saw tonight.
Countless teams have beaten Arsenal in the exact same way over the past 5-6 years in national and european competitions.
Like Pellegrini yesterday......wrong and crazy starting XI by Wenger today!!!!
Monaco weren't great but their tactics were brilliant.
Interesting words of Jardim in the post-match press conference "We analysed Arsenal’s games beforehand and knew they’ve always been a bit stronger in first half of games and struggle a bit after".
But you can't just blame Wenger......you can't score the 1-2 in the 90.min (That result was already terrible) and then be so stupidly open in the defence to concede another goal (1-3 is a totally disaster).
More Arsenal players should train more their brain.
Arsenal must score 3 goals at Stade Louis II.....Monaco's stats are speaking a little bit against a Arsenal miracle in 3 weeks.
- 14 clean-sheets in the last 18 games in all competitions
- They have conceded just 1 goal in the last 10 league matches
- They have conceded just 2 goals in the 7 CL matches this season.......no goal conceded at home
+
For me that was a more shocking result tonight.
Amazing assist by Bellarabi and great goal by Calhanoglu too
But Leverkusen are Leverkusen......they could easily lose 5-0 against Atletico in 3 weeks.
They will miss 2 starters for the defence. And they are more of a "fight team" not a big scoring one.
If Bayer scores 1 they should go through.
If you want a new great United coach, look out for the upcoming Schmidt hype.
I really really rate him. His Salzburg destroyed my Bayern 3:0 in a friendly and we didnt have a chance. A winner in Austria and still very young.
Apparently Tottenham have a better record than Arsenal in the Champions League over the past five years.
Yep, last time Spurs were in the CL they topped their group and got to the quarter finals in 2010/11 (and then got destroyed 5-0 on aggregate by Real Madrid). In the last 5 years Arsenal have only once topped their group and they never made it through the Round of 16 - unless they somehow turn it around against Monaco.Apparently Tottenham have a better record than Arsenal in the Champions League over the past five years.
Got to laugh!
Very good shot stopper, a little weak on his kicking game but he's been an integral part of their solid defense.
There is a tasty Monaco vs PSG coming up this week end.
Why? Because they are mighty Arsenal who play in the great Premier League? They just lost 3-1 to them at home.
I doubt it though. Can we score three against them away? Unlikely. We don't have the genius of Henry that got us the 5-1 win at San Siro. I think that hilarious third goal conceded in injury time killed the tie. At 2-1 we'd have had a chance. 3 away goals is too big a mountain to climb IMHO.
Monaco fans were singing "On est chez nous" (we are at our home) non stop last night.
Without even talking about the difficulty you'll have on the break once you'll attack them.
Arsenal can score but they'll probably also concede.
Without even talking about the difficulty you'll have on the break once you'll attack them.
Arsenal can score but they'll probably also concede.
I don't get it. They lost 3-1 at home, they're clearly NOT the better side out of these two, just because they're a Premier League side and more recognized than Monaco doesn't mean they are a better team and will win 3-0 away from home. They weren't unlucky yesterday, they were just much worse.
I'm sure we will concede. I just hope our attack goes in all guns blazing. Can't have our striker miss three sitters in a game and moan about the result. :P
Arsenal are a better side than Monaco, don't delude yourself. Just go look at the predictions when the draw came out. They are not better because they are a premier league team, they are not better because they are more recognized but because they have better players and they played 10 times in a neutral venue I think most people would expect Arsenal come out on top.
I think they have a chance in the second leg. Not a big one mind you but about 15 %
All right, why did they lost 3-1 to them at home then if they're a better side? It wasn't a 1-goal defeat in a league game that could happen to anyone, it was a very convincing win for a better side. Monaco did very well in the group stages too, won their group.
PL teams are so overrated. Liverpool went out in the group stages in a poor group, City were poor in the groups and only qualified because Roma was even worse but still they got completely outplayed against Barcelona, Arsenal had no chance against Monaco while in EL. Only Chelsea have done well in Europe this year. The gulf between English clubs and top European sides is massive at the moment.
Are you serious? by that logic Swansea are a better side than us, Villa a better side than Liverpool, Malaga a better side than Barca.
Well, neither Swansea nor Villa won their group in the Champions League or finished 2nd in their league last season only behind a team clearly superior to Arsenal.
I just don't understand how can someone say that Arsenal are clearly the better team when they've just been outclassed by Monaco in CL. It wasn't a flukey win.
I think you're overstating the difference a bit. Had Giroud taken any of the three chances we got, it would have been a different game altogether. What I'm trying to tell you is that we beat Man City 2-0 at the Etihad, and by all means "outclassed" them, but that doesn't make us the better team.