I choose Declan Rice because he can play three diffrent def, mid def and mid
Centre Back... Who do we go for?
- Thread starter Macern
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You need some help with learning to understand English then if calling someone a fast Lindelof is the same as calling him as fast as Lindelof.I don't see the difference
Nope...just need help with my eyes. I was reading that as "calling someone AS fast as Lindelof" is that same as calling him as fast as Lindelof."
I submit that you think Lindelof is too slow. I don't believe that as I feel Lindelof is pretty quick in my book, but not as powerful as Ake. That being said, I did say that Ake is a "fast Lindelof". Meaning he is quicker than Lindelof.
Now the main point. Heading. You mentioned Rio and Vidic as a pairing. Yes, both had different attributes. Rio the passing Rolls Royce and Vida the destructive tank alongside him. Rio was quick as hell and Vida was slower. BUT, both were brilliant headers of the ball. Both were well over 6ft tall.
This is my point. Ake is only as good as Lindelof in the heading department. Every other department he may have an edge as you say, but that is not enough of an upgrade to work with Maguire.
You need speed, aerial prowess and ball playing ability. This way, Maguire doesn't have to worry about ALWAYS having to win EVERY header coming into the box. He can delegate to his partner for headers and concentrate on positioning and leading the defence.
One statistic above all is key for defenders who are aerially dominant - "Aerial Duels" or "Aerial Battles". Per Premier League stats, Ake is better at most defensive duties on the ground. Better interception, better tackling, better clearances. He even has more aerial clearances (But this is because Ake doesn't have a Maguire next to him). But when it comes to Aerial Duels Lindelof is FAR better. This is a more individual stat and so works as a comparison.
| Nathan Ake | Victor Lindelof | |
| Matches | 27 | 30 |
| Aerial Battles Won | 60 | 82 |
Source: www.premierleague.com
This statistic is worrying to me, and automatically disqualifies him as a potential long term partner to Maguire.
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Yet Ake is 8th in the league in headed clearances...(and yes, I misread you "a fast Lindeloff" quote and read "as fast as Lindeloff". My bad)
https://www.premierleague.com/stats/top/players/head_clearance
Someone needs to send this strategy to United management.
1. United put a serious bid for Soyuncu.
2. See who Leicester scouting for his replacement.
3. United go and buy that player instead.
4. Profit.
1. United put a serious bid for Soyuncu.
2. See who Leicester scouting for his replacement.
3. United go and buy that player instead.
4. Profit.
And van Dijk is 9th. What does that infer? As I said, Headed clearances is not a good enough metric. Let's look at last season, when VVD was a Balon D'Or contender.
| 2018/19 SEASON | ||
| Nathan Ake | Virgil van Dijk | |
| PL Appearances | 38 | 38 |
| Aerial Battles Won | 88 | 181 |
| Headed Clearances | 127 | 112 |
Does this mean Ake was better in the air than Van Dijk last year? Not at all. It just means that Bournemouth faced more aerial balls than Liverpool. Hence more headed clearances.
This is why Headed Clearances is not a good enough stat and that Aerial duels is far better in understanding the aerial prowess of a defender. One can be influenced by team stats, the other cannot.
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In the light of our upcoming clash with the 'claret and blue', how's our friendly, neighborhood head stomper Mings doing?
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Surely for aerial battles won to be fairly compared you need to know the total number of aerial battles.
The % won is a much better metric if you’re comparing two players for the same spot.
The % won is a much better metric if you’re comparing two players for the same spot.
Upemecano. The fact we were in for him in the past surely means the club still like him and he’s obviously improved since then. He’s not a huge price and he could easily become a starting CB for France. Bet city or Chelsea go for him this summer.
I can play 3 positions as well doesn't mean I'm right for United . Rice is a decent midfielder and never good enough for what we need at CB
Say, uhm...you happen to have an agent mayhaps?
Jérôme Boateng will be out of his contract. He is 31. Good option for free. Better than what we have esp. as second choice.
Surely style of play and what team are in effect these stats.
Not that I feel Ake is as good as VVD
Haha can't argue with this.
I just hope we go for him. He fits the bill perfectly. Press resistant and has pace.
Then next season we go for Rice or Saul if they have improved.
Genius. Simple yet genius
He's the best option for me.
Cheaper than Koulibaby, and arguably better. Certainly has more potential.
Rice is a bit over rated and plays all his games in midfield, where he manages at best to look half decent. He's not a realistic CB option.
Ake is interesting, i dont think he's streets ahead of Lindelof so struggling to see the value.
Boateng/Silva - both have had they're best years and wouldnt improve us long term or fit the transfer strategy we now have.
Mings - Simply not good enough and never will be
Salisu - another interesting one. He;s young and looks raw. If we signed him, he's basically in the same bracket as Tuanzebe.
For me, CB isn't really that pressing. If we sign one, then i'd like to think we signed a definite starter to replace Lindelof. So the criteria has to be specific, a lot of the names we are linked with can almost instantly be dismissed:
Koulibaby, Silva, Boateng, Mings, Rice (If we were interested it would be for Midfield not CB)
Ake would be a maybe and i guess so is Salisu.
Whether we doing anything here depends on whether we sell 3 CB's in one window - Jones/Smalling/Rojo. If we dont sell all three, with limited funds i'd look at investing in a different position.
Tuanzebe's injury has been a real shame this year, hoping his luck changes
Ole - "we've got 7 centre backs we're fine"
Maguire - Yes
Lindelof - Yes
Bailly - never fit
Tuanzebe - never fit
Jones - never fit
Smalling - away on loan
Rojo - away on loan
So yes, technically we have 7 first team centre backs, but when you look at it we really aren't as "stacked" as we sound. We have 2 reliable centre backs and we do need more cover in my opinion.
Maguire - Yes
Lindelof - Yes
Bailly - never fit
Tuanzebe - never fit
Jones - never fit
Smalling - away on loan
Rojo - away on loan
So yes, technically we have 7 first team centre backs, but when you look at it we really aren't as "stacked" as we sound. We have 2 reliable centre backs and we do need more cover in my opinion.
He is slower than my grandmother. Don’t need. We already have enough problems with pace at the back.
What about Matic and Maguire combo?
If the 2 on loan arent sold permanently and we dont sell 1 of the others, we cant really sign a new one.
Money will be tight and we have other areas of the squad.
CB isnt that pressing unless we have 3 sold permanently.
Matic the central midfield player?
Matic the only natural DM we have?
Matic who isnt a CB and has never played there before?
Lets keep midfielders in midfield and defenders in defence for a start is it
Matic has been performing so well, allowing Pogba and Fernandes to get forward and create. Lets not change the balance for no reason with silly suggestions
I think Smalling and Rojo are definitely gone this summer. Ideally Phil Jones will get sold also but finding a buyer will be more difficult, hopefully the rumours of Moyeseh helping us out are true but based on West Ham avoiding relegation. That leaves us with 4 CB’s, promote Mengi and sign someone else and we’re sorted.
Yeah I am not worried at all by what Ole said about the CB situation,he is hardly going to say we need to sign one when we still have games to play.
I still can't imagine a toptop team with Lindelöf as their starting CB. He would never be a regular starter in Real, Barca, Juve or Bayern. Codename "Jaap Stam" needed.
Will never get why we loaned Smalling and kept Jones on a big contract. An injury or suspension to Maguire and we’re in trouble for the run in.
It's just a nothing answer from Ole, no need to destabilize the team atm.
I like Lindelof but agreed he’s just that slight bit off the level that we need.
If we talk United players, I could only imagine Pogba or Bruno to start any of those teams.
I can't imagine those top teams will start our 80m centre back either tbh
Here's a selection, mix of prominent CBs and some we've been linked with. The ones in bold are left footed.
| % Aerial Duels Won | |
| Ibrahima Konaté | 79% |
| Dan-Axel Zagadou | 77% |
| Jordan Torunarigha | 76% |
| Virgil van Dijk | 75% |
| Harry Maguire | 74% |
| Chris Smalling | 70% |
| Ozan Kabak | 67% |
| Jonathan Tah | 66% |
| Dayot Upamecano | 66% |
| Alessandro Bastoni | 65% |
| Matthijs de Ligt | 65% |
| Benoit Badiashile | 64% |
| Gabriel Magalhaes | 62% |
| Alessio Romagnoli | 60% |
| Mohammed Salisu | 60% |
| Kalidou Koulibaly | 59% |
| Eric Bailly | 55% |
| Nathan Aké | 51% |
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Great work!
Jordan Torunarigha's dream is to play for United one day. He's big, strong, left footed and good in the air. Could be a cheaper option if we could convince Hertha Berlin to sell.
Smalling asked to leave. Jones would probably miss the medical staff too much if he went anywhere.
Well that joke went over your head.
Interesting and i'm not surprised Konate is top.
Nice! I like Lisandro Martinez too. He can play left back, left CB and DM.