Centre Back... Who do we go for?

I like Smalling but, like with Nani, I just feel it's his time to move on if we can find a dominant, fit centre half to replace him. Personally I'd probably bin off Lindelof too, bit of an odd signing for me although he probably stays fit more than Rojo tbf. Toss up.
 
think Alderwerield has a release clause of 28 million that activates next season so Spurs could let him go for 40 maybe.... He's almost 29 so we'd get a few good years from him.

I'm sure there are a range of players who could improve upon Smalling but I'd like to see Lindelof get 10 games - not sure what's happened with him but Jose doesn't seem to fancy him
 
devilish said:
Anyone who follow my posts know that I never rated Smalling and Jones. Yet, I don't think its a good idea replacing them at this point in time. Love them or hate them there's a reason why we always end up with them as first teamers. Jones is not half bad and most of our defenders has either not settled down completely, are injury prone or are not good enough.

The bulk of our problem lie in CM were Matic alone can't be expected to do all the dirty work. Pogba is not a deep lying playmaker and he's no number 10 which means, we have to play in a 3 men midfield. Therefore money should be spent in getting a DM (cover/competitor for Matic) and a regista similar to Jorginho. That will strengthen the team's spine making the team more solid at the back and more efficient upfront as players will be able to focus more on what they are paid off to do.

Meanwhile we should

a- add some full backs (cover/competition for Valencia and Shaw)
b- send Tuanzebe on loan
c- give Lindelof more first team chances

The year after we can analyse what they do, within a stable side and act accordingly.
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Tuanzebe does not need another loan next year. In fact I'd say he didn't need this loan, he only needed Darmian and/or Blind to be sold (preferably both), Lindelof not to be bought, or for him to be given as many chances as the latter after he far outperformed him v Swansea. I'm not convinced Lindelof is better than him right now, never mind that he has more potential, and the other two definitely aren't. Also TFM should be the cover for Valencia and maybe even Mitchell that for Shaw, if it is intended V and S remain/become first choice.
 
According to the press Rojo wants to leave and PSG sniffing. Cant see Mourinho letting Smalling and Jones leave if hes gone as well. Funy thing is Smalling plays better when he isnt paired with Jones, and isnt so injury prone. As for who comes in, mourinhos favourite is Verane. Would he be able to persuade him to come without him having to send De Gea the other way is the question. Probably go for Alderwierield. Good defender and if 28 million is correct then a decent price. 29 but if we can get 3-4 good years, a bargain for that money at todays prices.
 
andyjgt1 said:
Tuanzebe does not need another loan next year. In fact I'd say he didn't need this loan, he only needed Darmian and/or Blind to be sold (preferably both), Lindelof not to be bought, or for him to be given as many chances as the latter after he far outperformed him v Swansea. I'm not convinced Lindelof is better than him right now, never mind that he has more potential, and the other two definitely aren't. Also TFM should be the cover for Valencia and maybe even Mitchell that for Shaw, if it is intended V and S remain/become first choice.
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I disagree and honestly we would do him an immense disservice if we don't. There's a big difference between him and lets say Rashford or Martial. If the latter don't score enough goals then they are moved on the flanks. If Tuanzebe messes up as CB then the vultures will ripped him in pieces and he'll end up like Michael Keane.

So lets learn from the Michael Keane experience. Lets loan him for a year to an EPL were he will get the experience he need. If he does well, then he will have the experience needed to do well with us and the reputation needed to get some hits if things don't work well immediately.
 
wolvored said:
According to the press Rojo wants to leave and PSG sniffing. Cant see Mourinho letting Smalling and Jones leave if hes gone as well. Funy thing is Smalling plays better when he isnt paired with Jones, and isnt so injury prone. As for who comes in, mourinhos favourite is Verane. Would he be able to persuade him to come without him having to send De Gea the other way is the question. Probably go for Alderwierield. Good defender and if 28 million is correct then a decent price. 29 but if we can get 3-4 good years, a bargain for that money at todays prices.
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Fare thee well, Marcos. We’ll always have those 5 yellows in 17 days.
 
TwoSheds said:
I like Smalling but, like with Nani, I just feel it's his time to move on if we can find a dominant, fit centre half to replace him. Personally I'd probably bin off Lindelof too, bit of an odd signing for me although he probably stays fit more than Rojo tbf. Toss up.
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Why to bin Smalling first? he's our most natural and by far the best defender in the air. He will definitely come in handy. He wins the ball a lot in the right areas so we can start a counter. He doesn't need to pass like a beckenbauer.

The problem is that all of our centerbacks are pretty good and in form one of the best in the league but not the very top bracket so it is hard to replace them and hard to sell one. Rojo had an fantastic season before got injured, if he can get to full fitness he will be great again I think. Bailly is the one with most potential. Jones is on a level of Smalling, wouldnt sell him either.

Lindelof would be the one, I am sorry but the transfer is a bit shocking, confidence is big part of the game and a defender who doesn't trust himself and can't be trusted by other players simply cant play for top team. We should have saved 30mil and go with Tuanzebe who is better in every department trust himself and is for free from the academy.

But I am still not sure if I would sign anyone. I'd personally send Lindelof out for a loan to premier league. He won't get better to play every 7th game.
 
Blind, Darmian and potentially Smalling all on their way this summer.

Would love to see us sign a top class centre back like Varane or Alderwerield.

If not, I don't see the point of bringing in another bang average defender. Rather see Tuanzebe giving more playing time.
 
TheFlagStaysDown said:
Why to bin Smalling first? he's our most natural and by far the best defender in the air. He will definitely come in handy. He wins the ball a lot in the right areas so we can start a counter. He doesn't need to pass like a beckenbauer.

The problem is that all of our centerbacks are pretty good and in form one of the best in the league but not the very top bracket so it is hard to replace them and hard to sell one. Rojo had an fantastic season before got injured, if he can get to full fitness he will be great again I think. Bailly is the one with most potential. Jones is on a level of Smalling, wouldnt sell him either.

Lindelof would be the one, I am sorry but the transfer is a bit shocking, confidence is big part of the game and a defender who doesn't trust himself and can't be trusted by other players simply cant play for top team. We should have saved 30mil and go with Tuanzebe who is better in every department trust himself and is for free from the academy.

But I am still not sure if I would sign anyone. I'd personally send Lindelof out for a loan to premier league. He won't get better to play every 7th game.
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On one hand you rate Tuanzebe highly after no games and write Lindelof off when he’s still settling in.

Lindelof who’s a Swedish international with Champions League experience, and Tuanzebe who’s on loan at Aston Villa.

Interesting.
 
devilish said:
I disagree and honestly we would do him an immense disservice if we don't. There's a big difference between him and lets say Rashford or Martial. If the latter don't score enough goals then they are moved on the flanks. If Tuanzebe messes up as CB then the vultures will ripped him in pieces and he'll end up like Michael Keane.

So lets learn from the Michael Keane experience. Lets loan him for a year to an EPL were he will get the experience he need. If he does well, then he will have the experience needed to do well with us and the reputation needed to get some hits if things don't work well immediately.
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The point is that Tuanzebe has had excellent performances, I'm not sure any of Lindelof's performances qualify for being rated that highly, and if the Swede deserved more chances after his poor outing v Swansea, so did Tuanzebe after his strong game against them. Also, he is a better fit at RB so should have played there v Derby, with Victor at CB alongside Smalling instead of Blind, and he should have played there instead of Young when Ashley played there. Maybe Lindelof could have spelled Matic at DM sometimes, freeing up a place for Tuanzebe in the back line.

As I've said, Lindelof's nationality, national team experience and cost should have meant he was bought as an immediate first teamer only, and Darmian and Blind should have been sold, probably Young too.

I'm an idealist admittedly, I don't like loans because Butt and the Nevilles weren't loaned and IMHO Tuanzebe has world class potential that they didn't have. He's faster (I won't go into why that's obvious, with apologies to Michael Owen and Marc Overmars amongst others), stronger (he's over 6 foot tall, they're under the mark) and more skilful, and he probably has more stamina than Butt and Phil (probably not Gary though).

As a Man City fan, I don't think Phil Foden should need a loan because Scholes wasn't loaned and Phil has more pace and better dribbling ability (and more stamina already than Scholes did until 1998 obviously), but I bet he will need one. I don't mind however if it's world class quality who keep him out of the team, but I wouldn't want the midfield equivalent of Lindelof bought and given chances ahead of him. I didn't think Wilshere needed his loan to Bolton with Denilson being in the team (he did need his Bournemouth loan, but for different reasons).

And finally, if Tuanzebe needs a loan, maybe Lindelof should have one too, at least if a proven top CB is bought and none of Smalling, Jones and Rojo are sold.
 
andyjgt1 said:
The point is that Tuanzebe has had excellent performances, I'm not sure any of Lindelof's performances qualify for being rated that highly, and if the Swede deserved more chances after his poor outing v Swansea, so did Tuanzebe after his strong game against them. Also, he is a better fit at RB so should have played there v Derby, with Victor at CB alongside Smalling instead of Blind, and he should have played there instead of Young when Ashley played there. Maybe Lindelof could have spelled Matic at DM sometimes, freeing up a place for Tuanzebe in the back line.

As I've said, Lindelof's nationality, national team experience and cost should have meant he was bought as an immediate first teamer only, and Darmian and Blind should have been sold, probably Young too.

I'm an idealist admittedly, I don't like loans because Butt and the Nevilles weren't loaned and IMHO Tuanzebe has world class potential that they didn't have. He's faster (I won't go into why that's obvious, with apologies to Michael Owen and Marc Overmars amongst others), stronger (he's over 6 foot tall, they're under the mark) and more skilful, and he probably has more stamina than Butt and Phil (probably not Gary though).

As a Man City fan, I don't think Phil Foden should need a loan because Scholes wasn't loaned and Phil has more pace and better dribbling ability (and more stamina already than Scholes did until 1998 obviously), but I bet he will need one. I don't mind however if it's world class quality who keep him out of the team, but I wouldn't want the midfield equivalent of Lindelof bought and given chances ahead of him. I didn't think Wilshere needed his loan to Bolton with Denilson being in the team (he did need his Bournemouth loan, but for different reasons).

And finally, if Tuanzebe needs a loan, maybe Lindelof should have one too, at least if a proven top CB is bought and none of Smalling, Jones and Rojo are sold.
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I hear you. However, the problem with idealists is that they tend to see the end result while ignoring the nitty gritty of things.
Many think that the class of 92 took football by storm. However that's not the case. The project was implemented slowly and gradually first with Giggs then little by little with the rest. SAF made sure that all young players were surrounded with players of great talent and experience. Giggs had Irwin at his back, Keane and Ince at his side and Cantona infront of him. Gaz had Dolly and Daisy at his side, Kanchelskis infront of him and Schmeichel at his back. Then it was Scholes and Butt turn who were surrounded by the likes of Keane, Cantona, Pally, Bruce, Irwin and the more experienced Giggs.

SAF was so cautious about it that if he had his way he would have replaced Kanchelskis with Anderton instead of relying on Beckham. He even refused to give Scholes a go upfront preferring the more experienced Teddy Sheringham to him and that despite the ginger prince was able to score a looping 14 goals during that season. It was only after Veron was signed that Scholes was moved back upfront in a 4-4-1-1 system. That backfired spectacularly as Veron didn’t settled down and Scholes had since reinvented himself into a world class CM.


CB is the second most unforgiving role to mess up into (i.e. after the GK). One mistake is all you get and you’ll put the kid into severe pressure. Many players were judged/suffered from a hellish situation out of 1 game. Rafael red card against Bayern, Michael Keane game against the Dons, Philip Neville’s late tackle vs Romania….the list goes on and on. We lack the leaders and the quality needed to make sure to protect the kids from committing rookie mistakes. I mean, how can Smalling and Jones do the job when they themselves play like 18 year olds?
 
andyjgt1 said:
I'm an idealist admittedly, I don't like loans because Butt and the Nevilles weren't loaned and IMHO Tuanzebe has world class potential that they didn't have.
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What kind of thinking is this? Far better players than those 3 have had loans. Beckham, Terry, Lampard, Ferdinand, Ashley Cole, and I can go on. World Class players, all spent time on loan.
 
Luciano Venturini said:
Blind, Darmian and potentially Smalling all on their way this summer.

Would love to see us sign a top class centre back like Varane or Alderwerield.

If not, I don't see the point of bringing in another bang average defender. Rather see Tuanzebe giving more playing time.
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Apparently PSG are interested in Rojo according to some reports.
So its just possible that we could see enormous changes in our group of defenders if Mourinho has options on just about all of them.
 
Alderweireld would be a coup for us, the kind of experienced CB leader that would be ideal next to the talented but at times immature Bailly.
 
I just read in the Press Gossip thread that Mourinho is fuming because Rojo's new contract isn't done yet. That sounds like Rojo staying if Mourinho gets his way.
 
yo@Kirk said:
I just read in the Press Gossip thread that Mourinho is fuming because Rojo's new contract isn't done yet. That sounds like Rojo staying if Mourinho gets his way.
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Honestly, I'd rather keep Rojo over one of Jones/Smalling.
 
De Vrij (free), Maguire and Alex Sandro in with Smalling, Rojo, Blind and Darmian all out works for me. Then promote Fosu-Mensah and Tuanzebe up to the first team properly and suddenly we have a lot of quality over quantity in defence.
 
Robertd0803 said:
Whats Umtitis release clause? Read somewhere its €53 million?
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I think if United thought for a second that activating Umtiti’s release clause would mean we’d sign him then we’d do it in a heartbeat seeing as he’s arguably the best centre back in the world now.

Problem is Barca appear to be on their way to re-establishing themselves as the best club in Europe again and Umtiti is an indispensable member of the team, I defy anyone who believes there’s a better pairing in world football than Pique and Umtiti and Barca know it hence contract negotiations for Umtiti have taken priority over everyone else’s.
 
We need to invest in midfield, so I would take De Vrij for free. We also have Bailly and Rojo who would make our defense stronger.
 
Ajaxsuarez said:
Don't think there's a thread for him, but Mundo Deportivo have said you're one of 4 clubs to have contacted Matthijs de Ligt's agent, Barry Hulshoff. The other clubs being City, Arsenal, Bayern, alongside Barca's constant interest.

http://www.mundodeportivo.com/futbo...ez-bayern-city-manchester-united-arsenal.html
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City and Barca make no sense as they have just bought young CBs.Arsenal, Bayern are possibilities.Was very impressed by him in the Europa League final, real maturity for a 17 year old.

How has he played this year? I don't know if Mourinho will be OK with playing a 19 year old in defense but De Ligt looks like he is on his way to be on of the best in the world.
 
De Vrij on a free is a great option. We'd probably have to sell one or two to make space in the squad, and I do think we need to keep an english spine to the team so Smalling and Jones should stay.
 
What do you guyz think of Smalling + Carrick as Center back parternship. Anyway, we sit deep most of the matches, so no need to worry about Carrick's pace. Its not like our other defenders are great tacklers either, so why not use Carrick's intelligence and calmness instead.

I understand we are already short in midfielders, but looking at the nervous wreck we are at back, it can be a option.
 
Swift Football said:
What do you guyz think of Smalling + Carrick as Center back parternship. Anyway, we sit deep most of the matches, so no need to worry about Carrick's pace. Its not like our other defenders are great tacklers either, so why not use Carrick's intelligence and calmness instead.

I understand we are already short in midfielders, but looking at the nervous wreck we are at back, it can be a option.
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Even in his prime Carrick was a disaster at CB. I can not imagine what is going to look like now that he has even less pace.
 
Bailly, Lindelof (first choice pairing), Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Blind, Tuanzebe, Fosu-Mensah.

We do not need a CB. I really like the look of both Axel and TFM. How the hell are they ever going to get game time if we sign another CB. Jose has signed two and has good back up. Much more urgent areas of the side to sort out.
 
Swift Football said:
What do you guyz think of Smalling + Carrick as Center back parternship. Anyway, we sit deep most of the matches, so no need to worry about Carrick's pace. Its not like our other defenders are great tacklers either, so why not use Carrick's intelligence and calmness instead.

I understand we are already short in midfielders, but looking at the nervous wreck we are at back, it can be a option.
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Terrible, we will have two guys in the back unable to handle the high press, Smalling can't pass for shite and Carrick can't handle the opposition's pace anymore. A team like Pool or City will shred us into pieces.
 
The Mad Manc said:
Bailly, Lindelof (first choice pairing), Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Blind, Tuanzebe, Fosu-Mensah.

We do not need a CB. I really like the look of both Axel and TFM. How the hell are they ever going to get game time if we sign another CB. Jose has signed two and has good back up. Much more urgent areas of the side to sort out.
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Whilst I agree, there is no doubt apart from Bailey everybody else has failed to cement their position at central defence. We need a new central defender and whether that is TFM or Tunzabe it’s clear as day it’s not one of Jones Smalling Rojo or Blind. So if not we are left with lindelof TFM and Tunzabe so think we need to move some deadwood on Rojo and Blind perhaps and then buy a first choice centre back to partner Bailey then Smalling and Jones can be back up (great squad if so) with hopefully one of the three with potential stepping up. I would not mind Maguire from Leicester (said it when he was at Hull). I think he’s big, aggressive, mobile, good on ball and looks very hungry as a player to learn.
 
Sanche7 said:
City and Barca make no sense as they have just bought young CBs.Arsenal, Bayern are possibilities.Was very impressed by him in the Europa League final, real maturity for a 17 year old.

How has he played this year? I don't know if Mourinho will be OK with playing a 19 year old in defense but De Ligt looks like he is on his way to be on of the best in the world.
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He started with a month or two where he was a little more shaky than he had been so far, but since then has been incredibly stable. At 18, he runs our defence on his own. He plays in a pairing next to a creative midfielder, Frenkie de Jong, at CB, and so he pretty much does all the defending for our team, coaches our whole defence, and even provides a lot of the build up now that De Jong gets shutdown so much

here is him defending the other day against Twente:



Here is him defending a couple months ago against Roda



He's so bizarrely good in general, let alone for 18. Great defensive decision making, physical specimen, two footed

can give passes like this




has worked a lot on his agility and acceleration and it has improved but I think that's still his worry, especially as he gets even bigger physically (hard to imagine considering the size of him already, he's like a massive rectangle/fridge)
 
Pretty sure we will see a Bailey, Lindelof partnership next year. Just need both playing regularly at some point this season. Happy Bailey is back from injury and i don't think Mourinho likes playing Lindelof along side Jones or Smalling as all 3 can be rash at times.
 
Ajaxsuarez said:
He started with a month or two where he was a little more shaky than he had been so far, but since then has been incredibly stable. At 18, he runs our defence on his own. He plays in a pairing next to a creative midfielder, Frenkie de Jong, at CB, and so he pretty much does all the defending for our team, coaches our whole defence, and even provides a lot of the build up now that De Jong gets shutdown so much

has worked a lot on his agility and acceleration and it has improved but I think that's still his worry, especially as he gets even bigger physically (hard to imagine considering the size of him already, he's like a massive rectangle/fridge)
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Agreed. People who thought he was good in the EL final haven't seen anything yet.

Leads his defense like he's 28. Very stable.

Don't know how accurate the MD piece is, but the major clubs would be asleep if he's still an Ajax player next season. And i really hope they are.
 
RikRuud said:
Pretty sure we will see a Bailey, Lindelof partnership next year. Just need both playing regularly at some point this season. Happy Bailey is back from injury and i don't think Mourinho likes playing Lindelof along side Jones or Smalling as all 3 can be rash at times.
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Neither of them can head the ball. Crossing and set pieces do not have the primacy that they once did in football, but that seems like a fairly glaring weakness for your centre-backs to share.
 
If this guy de Ligt is the real deal, we should go for him regardless of the age. I'd rather we go and buy a player like that with big potential, than go for average player.
 
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