Casemiro-Mainoo-Fernandes

luke511 said:
I’m not comparing their skill levels, I’m comparing the situations. “It’s only been a game give it a chance” when we could’ve lost 4-0 against Wolves at home. The same goes for Weghorst as a striker and playing in Bruno’s position when he couldn’t hit a bar door to save his life.

The whole “pre season counts for nothing” is a myth as well, it means something. We had a bad pre season under Moyes and that season went to shit, and we also had a bad one in the final Mourinho season, the same applies.
Click to expand...
But it's not the same situation either, is it? You wrote yourself that it took 20 games to sink in that Weghorst stinks the place up. Now we've had one combative game. Also Weghorst has always been a makeshift, Mount is quite clearly planned as a mainstay.

I think you are cherry picking. We also had a quite good preseason the season van Gaal got sacked and a bad preseason last year. I really can't see a pattern in that regard.
 
ArbeitervonWien said:
But it's not the same situation either, is it? You wrote yourself that it took 20 games to sink in that Weghorst stinks the place up. Now we've had one combative game. Also Weghorst has always been a makeshift, Mount is quite clearly planned as a mainstay.

I think you are cherry picking. We also had a quite good preseason the season van Gaal got sacked and a bad preseason last year. I really can't see a pattern in that regard.
Click to expand...
It was obvious after the first game with Weghorst it was a terrible idea yet fans wanted to give it time, it’s the same with this midfield. It’s not that hard.

We won an FA cup that season at least and last season’s pre season was above average to good. Pre season isn’t the be all and end all obviously but the performances are still relevant to a degree.
 
Judas said:
It’s beyond mental to be speaking about Mainoo in this manner already.
Click to expand...
We do this all the time. Young players are always assumed to be the next big thing, and that they'll solve our problems any minute now.
 
Marwood said:
If he's good enough to start you start him no? He might not need time. I don't see the point of deciding he's not ready before seeing what he can do.
Click to expand...

Because he's a young lad - could absolutely destroy his confidence if you throw him in straight away expecting him to do well and he fails.

Even SAF didn't treat youngsters that way.
 
Mainoo is been overhyped beyond all belief on the back of a few friendlies... he has potential but nothing to suggest he will make it at United, very few do.
 
Shall we wait a little longer before we completely write off Mount?

Ah it's the caf. Carry on.
 
I know, but Mainoo is out injured for months, and he is only 18 with only 1 competitive game experience in his whole career. Which means we are not going to heavily rely on him yet.
 
luke511 said:
It was obvious after the first game with Weghorst it was a terrible idea yet fans wanted to give it time, it’s the same with this midfield. It’s not that hard.

We won an FA cup that season at least and last season’s pre season was above average to good. Pre season isn’t the be all and end all obviously but the performances are still relevant to a degree.
Click to expand...
Playing AWB as inverted RB should also be obviously a disaster waiting to happen. It is not. Playing Shaw as CB should obviously not work, but it does.

We clearly have a plan how to use Mount. It makes no sense to spent 55m on a player, having a plan in mind how to use him, working on it during the summer but than suddenly cancel our plans after the first game of the season. In addition to that, Mount played his last combative game in February and is unsurprisingly rusty. It's definitely completely different to the Weghorst-situation.

We've won the FA cup that year but or football was so dull that van Gaal got the sack without anybody complaining too much about it. I fear, I remembered last preseason a bit falsely. While it's true it went from good to bad, I thought we had more bad games than we actually did have. There are still other axample: van Gaals first preseason we won everything but the season was mediocre.
 
Sarni said:
Mainoo is most likely not going to start a single league game this year and will be lucky to get more than 300 minutes off the bench in the league. His best hope is that we decide to play weakened side in League Cup or FA Cup and give him a chance there.

I wouldn’t expect him to have a meaningful role in the league or CL for another 3-4 years. He’s 18.
Click to expand...
For a Club with such storied history with youngsters some of you are so conservative and sceptical of Young talent it's highly amusing.

If management believes in his talent then he should start getting meaningful minutes from this season itself it's not as if we are brimming with options or talent in midfield any how .
 
Calm down.

Mainoo has played a total of 10 minutes in the Premier League, 17 minutes in the FA Cup and 60 minutes in the League Cup. He's nowhere near ready. You definitely can't be pinning all your hopes on him to be first choice.

The Casemiro-Mount-Bruno midfield on Monday showed such obvious and visible problems, it should be easy to fix at least some of them to some extent. Whether or not that will make it good enough long term still remains to be seen. But we absolutely cannot judge it based on a single competitive performance where everybody was still working everybody else out. Only once they're all familiar with each others' games will we be able to say anything definitive about the combination.
 
gajender said:
For a Club with such storied history with youngsters some of you are so conservative and sceptical of Young talent it's highly amusing.

If management believes in his talent then he should start getting meaningful minutes from this season itself it's not as if we are brimming with options or talent in midfield any how .
Click to expand...
No, just being realistic about a player with less than 90 minutes of first team football under his belt. Let me guess, you also thought Garner, Iqbal, Tuanzebe, Fosu-Mensah, Tunnicliffe, and Oliver Norwood were nailed on future United starters?
 
Devil_forever said:
Will be our best, most balanced midfield this season but I worry that ETH will persist with Mount or put Bruno on the right side of attack to fit Mount into midfield. Mainoo looks perfect for the number 8 role.

Discuss.
Click to expand...
As it stands, I absolutely agree that it's our most balanced midfield. Whether Erik will actually allow it happen is another matter entirely after spunking £55m on his man.
 
gajender said:
For a Club with such storied history with youngsters some of you are so conservative and sceptical of Young talent it's highly amusing.

If management believes in his talent then he should start getting meaningful minutes from this season itself it's not as if we are brimming with options or talent in midfield any how .
Click to expand...
It's definitely funny. If it were left to Red Cafe to run the team, nobody would play unless they were 25 and had several international caps because majority of the forum seems to believe that great experienced players were just born with all that experience and didn't start with someone somewhere giving them a chance.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
No, just being realistic about a player with less than 90 minutes of first team football under his belt. Let me guess, you also thought Garner, Iqbal, Tuanzebe, Fosu-Mensah, Tunnicliffe, and Oliver Norwood were nailed on future United starters?
Click to expand...

Did you even read what I was replying to or my post , I wasn't saying he should be first choice but if Management believes in his talent then he should start getting meaningful minutes this season itself unlike the op who thinks he can't be expected to get that for another 3-4 years.

My reasoning is fairly simple If he is talented and have confidence of management then he should start getting phased in as our midfield options aren't exactly great in talent or in numbers and his profile is something we can do with as things stand right now .
 
Good hot take/prediction, though I think it's less about Mainoo and more:

1) Casemiro needs help
2) Bruno is slightly better as a free 10 than in a 4-3-3
3) Mount is a useful player but a squad one, not a starter except for maybe as a #10 in the right system with the right teammates

so if you told me we look overwhelmed in midfield with Mount as the 3rd man and we can't sign a midfielder than sure, he could beat out McTominay later in the year.

I haven't seen Mainoo play apart from his first-team/pre-season minutes and that Cup Final and he's probably too young, but he looks strong and composed and while he hasn't been all-action when we've seen him, having a calm and physically able midfielder alongside Casemiro seems fine.

As it is, I could see McTominay getting what would hopefully be a last start against Spurs, though probably Mount gets a chance to annoy Bissouma and Royal, who had the ball seemingly half the game in their opener.
 
Dannn411 said:
As it stands, I absolutely agree that it's our most balanced midfield. Whether Erik will actually allow it happen is another matter entirely after spunking £55m on his man.
Click to expand...

I think the Wolves game might have been frightening enough that Ten Hag looks to sell Mctominay and use the money on an older player who can start and doesn't cost as much.

Mount really was an odd signing for Ten Hag. On a free sure, but for 55M we could have bought 2 good young midfielders or a veteran and an exciting young player.
 
Dannn411 said:
It's definitely funny. If it were left to Red Cafe to run the team, nobody would play unless they were 25 and had several international caps because majority of the forum seems to believe that great experienced players were just born with all that experience and didn't start with someone somewhere giving them a chance.
Click to expand...


Agreed and its not as if I was advocating him to be Starter immediately but just get meaningful minutes as there is clearly a space for someone of his profile in this current team . I really hope Ten Hag is braver in his approach this season and integrate few more youngsters .
 
Dannn411 said:
It's definitely funny. If it were left to Red Cafe to run the team, nobody would play unless they were 25 and had several international caps because majority of the forum seems to believe that great experienced players were just born with all that experience and didn't start with someone somewhere giving them a chance.
Click to expand...
I don't know what RedCafe you're reading then, because we went into the summer with half of the forum thinking Hannibal, Laird, and Iqbal were going to be regulars in our 25-man squad this season. As tends to be the case with the Caf appraisals of our youth players every year.
 
Everybody leaving out Mount on what ground? Performance in first game? Casemiro and Bruno were worse. Give this trio a few games together than lets judge. It's is not only one player's problem if whole team can't string a few passes together.
 
Have we abandoned the idea that Eriksen and Casemiro was our best midfield pair in a decade? Cos they were amazing together.
 
Judas said:
It’s beyond mental to be speaking about Mainoo in this manner already.
Click to expand...
Indeed. Just reeks of reckless planning again from United.
Oh, we'll just throw a, albeit talented, kid in.

God, United are so fecking incompetent. :lol:
 
Yes, the kid has done nothing to suggest he can be called on right now, for some balance though, the likes of Mainoo have done nothing to suggest that they can't take up the mantle and play a key role.

At some point if they show it with the opportunities they get, the management have to see if they can do it for real. This applies to Mainoo and Hannibal really, but Mainoo moreso. It appears EtH agreed as he started him in both of our most difficult pre-season fixtures with the rest of the first team.


Fabregas, Gavi, etc would never have been given the chance with the view that you can't win anything with kids.

Could be Mainoo was always part of the plan (that's not to say an established CM would make me much happier going into the season!)
 
He should offered more game time, at the minute the system in place doesn’t work but it’s early days and we still have time to get it to click. When I seen Mount was signing I was a bit shocked as to why, we needed a deep lying midfield playmaker not afraid to tackle.
 
fps said:
Have we abandoned the idea that Eriksen and Casemiro was our best midfield pair in a decade? Cos they were amazing together.
Click to expand...

I think it's not so much the players you've mentioned there, but what they do. I'd throw Bruno into there as part of that midfield three.

Casemiro - holding the midfield, good short range passing, but mostly protecting the back four
Eriksen - good overall range of passing, linking the defence to midfield to attack, spreading the play, finding players and supplying them with the ball
Bruno - mobile attacker who acts to support the striker/forwards, presses high up the pitch, can help to win the ball back quickly

It's more about the template for me. I feel that it was the first time post-Sir Alex that we got the overall balance and composition right in midfield with regards to what the players do and their roles with making the machine work.

The issue is now with mobility. We keep hearing that Casemiro needs a run of games to build up rhythm. We also keep hearing that Eriksen's legs have gone. When they're fit/on form/in rhythm, it is still our best midfield. If we're going to update the midfield, we really need to be updating it with this template in mind. The problem is that I don't look at any member of our squad and feel that we have anybody that can immediately displace any of those three. I'm not actually sure which player Mount is meant to be displacing from what I saw on Monday, and it's clear that Mainoo is purely not ready. Mount for Eriksen seems like the obvious one on paper, but it didn't seem that obvious in the game.
 
Don’t really see why Mount couldn’t be instructed to do anything Mainoo does, physical attributes aside.
 
Baxquux said:
physical attributes aside
Click to expand...
There’s more to football than solely physicality, otherwise we may as well just bring Fellaini back. People expecting Mainoo to walk in our team and be a better footballer than Mount are naive.
 
JB08 said:
There’s more to football than solely physicality, otherwise we may as well just bring Fellaini back. People expecting Mainoo to walk in our team and be a better footballer than Mount are naive.
Click to expand...
Yeah, but when lack of certain physical attributes precludes you from doing stuff, like matching runners or being agile and with enough acceleration enough to get away from the press or an individual challenge (MM has a bit of this but not like the midfielders mentioned elsewhere as targets) or shielding the ball or getting across to block a pass, then it can be an issue. You can have one of those players in your three who either just controls the tempo and uses anticipation to be in the right positions, or someone who presses and tries quick balls forward or makes runs and lays the ball off quickly in 1-2s.

MM is ok stepping up for Bruno when he's injured/off form, although not as creative, and is OK playing as a wide forward to provide a press, a runner and the ability to play quick balls when needs be. But he's not a natural option for an 8 and he's certainly not a great option when you have a half-paced Casemiro and Bruno nowhere to be found and your midfield is being swamped.

There are probably at least 30 midfielders in majorish leagues, if we're including France and Portugal, available for the same or smaller price, aged under , say, 26, and who would make more sense in our midfield with Case and Bruno being short-term guaranteed starters.. .
 
I do not expect Mainoo to get enough minutes to prove that. ETH just signed Mount and he will continue to try and make it work. Expecting Mainoo to walk into the midfield with no experience is asking for a lot. Our fanbase expects too much from young players.
 
It did look like Mainoo was set to get a prominent role this season but I don't think that was ever going to involve being a regular starter. I think/hope he'll be an option off the bench to shore up midfield later in games.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.