Can we stop complaining until we see an actual ETH XI?

clean-sheet-culkin

Full Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2017
Messages
92
I see a lot of posts on here moaning that we don't have an identity and our tactics are all over the place. I've never agreed, but I couldn't quite put it into words.

I really 'enjoyed' this video, which made it pretty simple for me; the tactics are working, our players aren't. WHAT A SURPRISE.

We've been plagued for years with:
  1. Players who don't want to play certain systems, so tick the box and let them fail.
  2. Players who understand the system, try, but who can't execute.
  3. Players who just suck.
Let's be clear, we have had some incredible, proven in almost every major league, deeply experienced managers. But we've maintained a core of players who fit the above.

ETH has transformed the squad more than any other manager, but right now has to rely on the same old gunk he was laboured with.

Once I see an ETH first XI, then I'll judge, but with a fit squad I just don't see half of these players getting game time under him, because he'll start to cut them out.
 
Very few managers get to play with their own preferred XI. I don't think ETH should be sacked, but it's not unreasonable to ask a manager to make do with what he's got.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Very few managers get to play with their own preferred XI. I don't think ETH should be sacked, but it's not unreasonable to ask a manager to make do with what he's got.
Click to expand...
True. If we are only going to assess managers when they have full team available, then likely that time will never come.
 
I see both sides of this thread so far. But forget this whole "his XI" stuff. He's only been able to start a half decent striker once in his whole time here. That's pretty damning and also enough for me to give him time.
 
What's an ETH XI? The thought that a manager should be able to buy an entire new squad is absolutely absurd and has been hugely damaging to the club in terms of throwing grotesque amounts of money out of the window when a new manager comes in and discards all the signings of his predecessor. ETH has brought in plenty of his own players (in fact too many of his own players) and should have been expected to have them playing better football by now.
 
Last edited:
That video is shocking, the amount of urgency. We were showing them way too much respect and made Brighton look way better than they are. I know they have completed football, but crikey.
 
clean-sheet-culkin said:
I see a lot of posts on here moaning that we don't have an identity and our tactics are all over the place. I've never agreed, but I couldn't quite put it into words.

I really 'enjoyed' this video, which made it pretty simple for me; the tactics are working, our players aren't. WHAT A SURPRISE.

We've been plagued for years with:
  1. Players who don't want to play certain systems, so tick the box and let them fail.
  2. Players who understand the system, try, but who can't execute.
  3. Players who just suck.
Let's be clear, we have had some incredible, proven in almost every major league, deeply experienced managers. But we've maintained a core of players who fit the above.

ETH has transformed the squad more than any other manager, but right now has to rely on the same old gunk he was laboured with.

Once I see an ETH first XI, then I'll judge, but with a fit squad I just don't see half of these players getting game time under him, because he'll start to cut them out.
Click to expand...

Don't agree with this whatsoever. It should rightly improve with a first choice 11 but the majority of our players were bought because they have excelled in other teams, the managers job is to coach them and choose systems that get the best from them.

It's OK to have an ideal system you want to play and gradually work towards it but you also have to find a way to win football matches with the players you have available as well.
 
You dont need a full XI to play a working football

De Zebri didnt took that long, and we're not talking about City challenging squad. Just a formation and play good enough for the name Manchester United.

Keep the ball well, pass and movement, solid pressing, and actual attack the resembles a well coached team instead of route 1 give it to Rashford.

These things are the bread and butter of good managers. No managers ever gonna get their full XI unless you're SAF or Wenger or at least have stayed in the club for more than 5 years.

I know that some of the mishaps are just RNG like injuries and Antony Mason scandal, but the rest of the team should be enough to formulate something resembling a proper top flight football team

Most managers lifeshelf at a club is 2-3 years max. They work with what they have.

If you dont have personnel for playing tiki taka ajax football. Alter your playstyle to at least buy you time untill you slowly fill your jigzaw pieces.

Football is a perpetual rebuild. You can't wait for a full XI. By the time ETH got his full XI casemiro would have to be replaced, Bruno would be 31 and the we'll always have gaps to fill.

Now i really dont think ETH is clueless. He knew his football. His problem is getting the players to commit to his style and there's only so much he can do when a good number of our players simply refused to run or follow his instructions to a tee. But still the buck lies with the manager. Making sure your boys respect you to follow your instructions is still at the end of the day the brunts of managers job
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Very few managers get to play with their own preferred XI. I don't think ETH should be sacked, but it's not unreasonable to ask a manager to make do with what he's got.
Click to expand...
Spot on, he may not have everything he wants, but we've spent a hell of a lot of money on players he specifically asked for. It's quite reasonable to expect better than we've seen so far.
 
clean-sheet-culkin said:
I see a lot of posts on here moaning that we don't have an identity and our tactics are all over the place. I've never agreed, but I couldn't quite put it into words.

I really 'enjoyed' this video, which made it pretty simple for me; the tactics are working, our players aren't. WHAT A SURPRISE.

We've been plagued for years with:
  1. Players who don't want to play certain systems, so tick the box and let them fail.
  2. Players who understand the system, try, but who can't execute.
  3. Players who just suck.
Let's be clear, we have had some incredible, proven in almost every major league, deeply experienced managers. But we've maintained a core of players who fit the above.

ETH has transformed the squad more than any other manager, but right now has to rely on the same old gunk he was laboured with.

Once I see an ETH first XI, then I'll judge, but with a fit squad I just don't see half of these players getting game time under him, because he'll start to cut them out.
Click to expand...
Berbasbullet said:
That video is shocking, the amount of urgency. We were showing them way too much respect and made Brighton look way better than they are. I know they have completed football, but crikey.
Click to expand...

That's a fantastic video, Adam at Four Four Two has been knocking it out of the park with his analysis of us this season, he seems to understand how we're trying to play.

As for the content of the video, it makes for depressing watching, it's a combination of there being too many passengers, and a lot of our players' instincts being to back off (as they did for years under Mou and Ole).

While I don't think a full ETH XI is something we can expect, nor should it be necessary, but we do need a few more who understand the intensity required, which will lead to others hopefully feeling more positive about it, or at worst having to step up if they want to play.
 
Fecking hell that video :lol:

I know it’s an overused word on here but this ‘team’ really is embarrassing sometimes.
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Very few managers get to play with their own preferred XI.
Click to expand...
Jev said:
What's an ETH XI?
Click to expand...

Yeah I should have been more specific - an ETH 'preferred' XI is really what I meant. A mixture of solid existing players and solid bought players playing with intensity in the managers system. We saw that for a few months last year before injuries and dramas but we didn't see it at the end of last season or the start of this for both of those reasons.

Berbasbullet said:
That video is shocking, the amount of urgency. We were showing them way too much respect and made Brighton look way better than they are. I know they have completed football, but crikey.
Click to expand...
HookedOnAPhelan said:
Fecking hell that video :lol:. I know it’s an overused word on here but this ‘team’ really is embarrassing sometimes.
Click to expand...
The Hilton said:
That's a fantastic video, Adam at Four Four Two has been knocking it out of the park with his analysis of us this season, he seems to understand how we're trying to play.
Click to expand...

Totally agree re Adam. Four Four Two has quickly become my must watch for our failings. Bang on every time. The interesting thing is it seems to be the same old players with the same old stinky attitudes.

Plant0x84 said:
No. This is the ‘Caf.
Click to expand...

I temporarily lost my mind and forgot where I was. Thank you for the reminder :D
 
I agree in principle, but at the pace we're going about this we'll have a Ten Hag XI in 2026...
 
That vid would be breaking Bruno's heart, only player in the front 6 who consistently presses with any intensity. Antony has kept his place in the team because he excels at that, our left wingers, Rashford, Sancho, Garnacho are all below average at it, our midfield is pedestrian. We are set up to play a style our players can't perform, Ten Hag must know that, but keeps trying it.
 
HookedOnAPhelan said:
Fecking hell that video :lol:

I know it’s an overused word on here but this ‘team’ really is embarrassing sometimes.
Click to expand...
Can we take a minute here to acknowledge Bruno was the main player trying to affect a press and working hardest. This myth that he is shite or a liability needs to die. There’s a reason he has been made captain.
That video makes it pretty clear what ETH has to do. He needs to drop the players who aren’t performing. McT, Eriksen, Rashy to a degree (somewhat balanced against his propensity to score), Licha and Dalot should all be benched until they put in a shift. If it’s good enough for Sancho then others might benefit from similar treatment.
 
The problem is that most people see that awful display and decide it's the manager's fault somehow, as if there's some magical tactic he can employ that makes every match an easy win without requiring anyone to run.

But yes, let's fire the manager yet again, surely there's someone out there who can win a match with players who literally refuse to run.
 
Are we sort of saying that ETH has no clue how to use his current squad outside of the first 11, whatever that is?
 
Can never understand how every Utd loss is the end of the world even though we picked up 7 out of 15 points in the corresponding fixtures last season, the three teams we have played are currently 2nd (Spurs away), 4th (Arsenal away), and 5th (Brighton at home) in the PL, we were missing 11 squad members last Saturday, and fine margins have gone against us in the three defeats i.e. Should have been up at HT versus Spurs (Bruno's header), Garnacho being marginally offside, the ball marginally crossing the end-line before Rashford crossed it (Although admittedly, we got the rub of the green against Wolves and some would argue against Forest although I think the latter claim is unfair).

And who do people think should replace EtH? What is it that EtH has done wrong that other managers would definitely do right? If you end up sacking ten Hag, you'll probably end up in the exact same place in 18-24 months time when his successor is sacked; any manager would find it almost impossible to succeed at Utd given the current organisational structure.

But yes, let's lose all our heads and moan instead
 
spiriticon said:
Are we sort of saying that ETH has no clue how to use his current squad outside of the first 11, whatever that is?
Click to expand...

He clearly does as he fecking played modified Ole ball with more pressing last year. He's also implemented a heavier, higher press this year but as the clips show in the posted video, certain players don't appear to want to put forth the effort required.
 
To be fair to the Caf, the real complaining usually starts when the actual XI is posted in the match day thread. Even if the team is fine, the numbers are all messed up.

But really, it's not even about waiting until ETH gets his own squad. Would be a great start to see all of the current (potential) starters to be fit at the same time.
 
Won a cup last season finished 3rd playing good football.

Not sure what manager would be doing amazing with 3 out of 4 first choice defenders injured,
2 first choice wingers and 2 brand new midfield signing injured, along with hojlund coming back from injury with martial as a back up.

Other than play the kids I don’t know what people think he should be doing
 
No manager is going to get a full XI of their own players unless they stay there for 6+ years. This isnt about kneejerk reactions and gloryhunting fans demanding immediate success and trophies, its about seeing tangible improvements both in terms of results and performances

ETH has a bit of credit in the bank considering he qualified for CL and won a cup in his first season, but considering where hes at in his tenure we need to see improvment this season and so far its not looking good at all
 
Bobcat said:
No manager is going to get a full XI of their own players unless they stay there for 6+ years. This isnt about kneejerk reactions and gloryhunting fans demanding immediate success and trophies, its about seeing tangible improvements both in terms of results and performances

ETH has a bit of credit in the bank considering he qualified for CL and won a cup in his first season, but considering where hes at in his tenure we need to see improvment this season and so far its not looking good at all
Click to expand...

Let's assume ETH needs until 1 year from now to get enough of a squad to play well consistently. Do you happen to have another manager in your back pocket that's going to turn things around from scratch in a shorter amount of time?
 
In that video I can only see Bruno and Casemiro doing their job properly. The 2 strikers, McTominay as useless as ever and lack of aggression from a no.10 playing in a CM role Eriksen continues to haunt us.

Casemiro, Eriksen and Hojlund are his signings.
 
Rawls said:
Can never understand how every Utd loss is the end of the world even though we picked up 7 out of 15 points in the corresponding fixtures last season, the three teams we have played are currently 2nd (Spurs away), 4th (Arsenal away), and 5th (Brighton at home) in the PL, we were missing 11 squad members last Saturday, and fine margins have gone against us in the three defeats i.e. Should have been up at HT versus Spurs (Bruno's header), Garnacho being marginally offside, the ball marginally crossing the end-line before Rashford crossed it (Although admittedly, we got the rub of the green against Wolves and some would argue against Forest although I think the latter claim is unfair).

And who do people think should replace EtH? What is it that EtH has done wrong that other managers would definitely do right? If you end up sacking ten Hag, you'll probably end up in the exact same place in 18-24 months time when his successor is sacked; any manager would find it almost impossible to succeed at Utd given the current organisational structure.

But yes, let's lose all our heads and moan instead
Click to expand...

Your second paragraph is the key thing, a great example is people suggesting De Zerbi as if he'd magically have a bunch of players who are seemingly allergic to pressing doing so.

Rangnick managed to get 45 minutes of pressing out of this out before they downed tools, there's a lack of buy in and that can only be dealt with really by forcing players to buy in through the threat of losing their places to others that can, and are willing to, fulfil their role within the system.
 
He's got a good enough squad now. It's not "wait until full new 11". It's fair to wait and hold judgement when a squad is completely lacking in certain types of players. Last season we had 0 ball playing goalkeepers and not even someone who was average at it. We had no center forwards at all. Those are 2 very important parts. It was fair to hold judgement even if we finished 6th, but we finished 3rd so he got props for it for adapting and making it work and definitely overachieved. Plus you should be able to see a system, and how it is limited by the profiles you are missing. There were plenty of times last season where we had a lot of good play but it was clear we needed a better GK and more suitable GK, as well as lacked a CF with any sort of hold up ability.

Now, we have a squad with multiple options and profile types all around. He is expected to get it working now. Of course, gotta wait for them to actually be available, it's early in the season and we have a ridiculous injury crisis currently, but it'll pass and ten hag will have to show he can get them clicking.
 
Bobski said:
That vid would be breaking Bruno's heart, only player in the front 6 who consistently presses with any intensity. Antony has kept his place in the team because he excels at that, our left wingers, Rashford, Sancho, Garnacho are all below average at it, our midfield is pedestrian. We are set up to play a style our players can't perform, Ten Hag must know that, but keeps trying it.
Click to expand...
Guys who can play in our front 6 who can/will press: Bruno, Mount, Amrabat (I'm told), Hojlund (I'm told, haven't seen him enough to know), Casemiro (he caused a lot of turnovers last year, not so much this year), Mejbri. I'm not sure about Pellistri. But, once Mount and Amrabat return from injury maybe he just has to start an all pressing front 6 for a game or two and see if it might motivate Marcus to try. The worry is if Marcus sulks at being benched then he might really "lose the dressing room".

Casemiro
Amrabat Mejbri
Bruno Hojlund Mount

Now that I look at it that lineup doesn't look so good going forward. We need a winger who will press but can also take on a fullback. Maybe we should give Pellistri a try.
 
As i was watching the game i saw McT just let his man go down the line and thought it was very poor. It was , as well as the effort from basically everybody else.

I think it simply means that the players are going through the motions and don't care.
 
RedOrange said:
Let's assume ETH needs until 1 year from now to get enough of a squad to play well consistently. Do you happen to have another manager in your back pocket that's going to turn things around from scratch in a shorter amount of time?
Click to expand...

No, but is that really a fair comparison to make? I am all for giving managers time, but i dont think its unreasonable to expect to see improvements either, espcially considering the handsome amount of money hes been allowed. Im not saying we should sack him now, that would be mental, but its been a utterly dreadful start to the season and if this rotten form persists he will be gone by Christmas.

He did a good job at Ajax, but at the end of the day its pretty meaningless. Its the job he does here that counts
 
I can’t watch that Brighton goal again. Gets more and more infuriating when you see that lack of effort from a few of those players. It really is inexcusable.
 
If Brighton can pass and create with the likes of Welbeck and Lallana as regulars then there’s no excuse. Wolves are another example of a manager changing things and quickly looking like a different side they’re playing some great football after years of dull defensive football
 
Big Ben Foster said:
Very few managers get to play with their own preferred XI. I don't think ETH should be sacked, but it's not unreasonable to ask a manager to make do with what he's got.
Click to expand...

Exactly this, he's spent over £400m. There should be sufficient progress shown this season as a result of that. You can't just press pause and say let's evaluate once we've spent £1bn with a manager.
 
hobbers said:
Onana
Dalot (new contract) - xxxx - Martinez - xxxx
Casemiro - Amrabat
Antony - Bruno (made captain) - Mount
Hojlund

​
So he's 9/11ths of the way there at least. And the players he didnt sign who he favours are Varane and Shaw. Hardly the root of our problems.
Click to expand...
Shaws signed a new deal too.

We havent seen Amrabat, and the other 2 signings have barely played.
 
Fantastic analysis in the video but a bit depressing. So many players aren't doing their job and you have to wonder if they'd actually be happy to see ETH go. You can't fault our setup, but the effort isn't there.
 
jogchester united

Rashford Martial Sancho
Pogba
Eriksen McTominay
Shaw Maguire Lindelof (new rb who doesnt give a feck)

Imagine what could have been
 
hobbers said:
Good point. But yeah, he's obviously satisfied with Dalot and Shaw and Bruno so they all count to his eleven.
Click to expand...
Agree with that.

I think Mount will come good and Amrabat I'm super excited to see play for us. Hoping those 2 might add some intensity too.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.