Caicedo or Rice for over £100m?

OverratedOpinion said:
He will what? Be one of the best midfielders in the history of the league?

You have to compare him with the prices players are going for this summer. Not in 6 years.
Click to expand...

I think if prices keep on the same trend every year coming and he performs well, the "value" will look fair in hindsight even as soon a couple seasons. There are multiple 100m€ deals happening this summer, it already looks more normalized than it was last year.
 
Rice's value is based partly on how established he is both as a premier league player and at international level, Caicedo at 21 with one goodish season in the Prem is a massive risk and so the fee should be less than Rice. This is desperate stuff from Liverpool.
 
Plastic Evra said:
I think if prices keep on the same trend every year coming and he performs well, the "value" will look fair in hindsight even as soon a couple seasons. There are multiple 100m€ deals happening this summer, it already looks more normalized than it was last year.
Click to expand...

I don't think you can go a couple of years forward though. You never know what will happen with football prices.

If you go a couple of years back Camavinga went for a third of Caicedo's price.

This summer as in right now, buying him for more than Bellingham is absurd. Spending that type of money when a player like Laimer who can do a very similar job went on a free transfer.

Even Rice who was overpriced has 4 or 5 seasons at this level and 2 very good international tournaments. This lad is such a gamble. Especially coming from a club where players frequently perform better than the sum of their parts.

He'd have to do so, so much to prove to be "good value". Maybe he will.
 
Matt007a said:
Rice is more proven over a longer period. He’s a much safer bet at such a high price. Caicedo is more of a gamble at £100m plus as he’s only done it over a single season in a team where everyone generally over performed last year. He probably has a higher ceiling if he stays on the right track though.
Click to expand...
On the flip side we can say Caicedo is more progressive system proven whereas Rice is a gamble in that regard (unless Arteta is bringing back his Pulis ball of the first couple of years).

One thing is for sure though, between this and the potential Paqueta deal Enzo has started to look like a bargain very quickly.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
For the past 10 years everyone has been talking about the insane amount of money spent by Premier League clubs. Caicedo is literally the record signing in the history of the Premier League.

I don't know that it's even possible that he's considered good value for money. If he goes on to be one of the best midfielders in the history of the league then that would basically mean they got what they paid for.
Click to expand...
If he's still worth north of 100m after a good season with Liverpool then it's good value for money. The problem with signing 30yo players is if even if they have a great season, their value will drop and you need to look for replacement soon anyway.
 
OverratedOpinion said:
I don't think you can go a couple of years forward though. You never know what will happen with football prices.

If you go a couple of years back Camavinga went for a third of Caicedo's price.

This summer as in right now, buying him for more than Bellingham is absurd. Spending that type of money when a player like Laimer who can do a very similar job went on a free transfer.

Even Rice who was overpriced has 4 or 5 seasons at this level and 2 very good international tournaments. This lad is such a gamble. Especially coming from a club where players frequently perform better than the sum of their parts.

He'd have to do so, so much to prove to be "good value". Maybe he will.
Click to expand...

You'll get no fight for me that the prices are by and large irrational.
I think the overall trend is evident, though. First 100m€ transfer a decade ago. Then a few others, multiple in 2017 IIRC then at least one in 2018.
It's the new normal for the 10 wealthiest clubs.
 
Borys said:
If he's still worth north of 100m after a good season with Liverpool then it's good value for money. The problem with signing 30yo players is if even if they have a great season, their value will drop and you need to look for replacement soon anyway.
Click to expand...

Only if they sell him for that. Otherwise some arbitrary value is meaningless. What is actually practical is they will have 110m less to spend on other areas of the squad.

Was it the right thing to do at this price? No idea, I'd probably say no personally because I don't rate him as highly as you. Certainly not as much of a sure fire success.
 
I don't rate either of them that highly both good players but I don't think that they move the needle that much compared to a bunch of other current and future options. So I would choose neither for that price.
 
Neither should be worth over £100m,

But Rice is head and shoulders above Caicedo,
 
Also to address the "surely there's a player in continental Europe of similar quality for a third of the price" or "why don't top clubs do what Brighton does ?", I think it's not a matter of competence, moreso a matter of expediency. Top clubs needs results now and they can't take a 3 year sabbatical to do a deeper rebuild. United missing the Champion's League every other year is already halfway to being a destitute old glory. Hence the absurd sums to secure perceived guarantees or to vacuum as much young talent as possible.

You see it mirrored in fan talk, here and everywhere else : Amrabat (speculated) low transfer fee was in itself suspect to some instead of potential good value. The hubris and constant condescension to lesser teams and foreign leagues : "United quality", "world class", "farmers league"... It's not exactly surprising the perception of what is a safe and sensible bet is so narrow.

It's why Barca (and everyone else) are killing themselves mortgaging their future every year while secretly hoping a sugar daddy comes along, and it holds to the very thin string of TV revenue and outside money growing every year.

COVID and stagnating / decreasing TV deals (in France, Italy too I believe) already made the situations of many clubs precarious.
 
Depends on the need of the team. For a defensive midfielder playing the "Kante" role, Caicedo is definitely better. Rice on the other hand has an English passport, and he can play both #6 and #8. Neither is worth 100m, not even 70m in my opinion.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Don’t care about transfer fees. Never cared about transfer fees. Both of them would improve us dramatically and both would have been terrific signings for us. Oh well.
Click to expand...
This. I'd go for Rice though, simply because he has proven his ability over a longer period.
 
Rice clearly right now, but that might not be the case soon. Caicedo is great and 3(?) years younger. But it's Rice currently.
 
Both wildly overpriced. Rice is the more complete player, but he’s 24, so to be expected. More experience too. I see two very good players in both of them. I don’t see a special player in either of them. In the PL alone, two or three DMs of their quality will pop up over the next three years. I’d bet my bottom dollar on it.

For that kind of money, I’d want a truly special player. A game changing player. Jude Bellingham is worth every bit the fee Madrid paid. A complete footballer. A total midfielder.

Caicedo, from the little we’ve seen so far, seems like he’s a bit of a head case. Wonder if he’ll turn into a headache. And for all his good performances last season, I’m going to want to see him do it week in, week out for 2-3 more seasons before I believe he’s as good as some make out. Rice will be interesting to watch this season. He’s, presumably, going to get more opportunity to use the ball and get forward with Arsenal than he was WHU. So I think we’ll get a better judge of how well rounded his game is after 12 months or so. Only question is whether he’s an important fish in a big pond, or can only stand out as a big fish in a small pond.
 
Rice, because he's proven his ability for 3+ seasons. Caicedo is very good, but we've only seen one full season from him. Caicedo is going to be the PL record signing after one season of high level performances. That's crazy to me, but if he keeps playing like he has been, it'll obviously be worth it.
 
I
Sparky Rhiwabon said:
Caicedo is the better player already and more scope to improve
Click to expand...
I agree. He’s more mobile…. can run all day . A big guy like Rice is in truth a cb. I’ve watched many west ham games and I can see Rice cheating as far as work rate .. it’s like he’s struggling to haul that huge size around. He can run when he means to but he’s not a willing runner and cannot match Caicedo’s lateral acceleration.
 
Bubz27 said:
I wonder what someone like Haaland goes for, if he goes, in 4 years? And who can even afford him.
Click to expand...

If he's smart, he'll run down his contract and go on a Bosman and scoop the hundreds of millions himself.

It's a different situation from the two players we're discussing here who are stepping up to the top level from longer term contracts at smaller clubs, he's already at the top, if he wants to go play in Spain in 4 years, why not it for free, just like Mbappe appears to be doing despite PSGs efforts to make someone pay for him.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Don’t care about transfer fees. Never cared about transfer fees. Both of them would improve us dramatically and both would have been terrific signings for us. Oh well.
Click to expand...
I don't see how, with Casemiro already occupying that sole deep midfield slot. Unless this is a hypothetical "what if we bought one of them and played two deep midfielders?"
 
I didn’t want Rice at all. So much so that when it looked for awhile like signing Rice would be a requirement for amounts extension … that’s when I started breaking my emotional attachment to Mount as a Chelsea player.

So, yeah, Caicedo.
 
foolsgold said:
If he's smart, he'll run down his contract and go on a Bosman and scoop the hundreds of millions himself.

It's a different situation from the two players we're discussing here who are stepping up to the top level from longer term contracts at smaller clubs, he's already at the top, if he wants to go play in Spain in 4 years, why not it for free, just like Mbappe appears to be doing despite PSGs efforts to make someone pay for him.
Click to expand...
Yeah but if madrid could get him a little sooner and cough up cash they will.
 
Both of them are not worth more than 70M pounds, even in this market. So very well done to West Ham and Brighton.
 
simonhch said:
Both wildly overpriced. Rice is the more complete player, but he’s 24, so to be expected. More experience too. I see two very good players in both of them. I don’t see a special player in either of them. In the PL alone, two or three DMs of their quality will pop up over the next three years. I’d bet my bottom dollar on it.
Click to expand...
And we've been looking for a DM for how long?

Rice is a really good player, his normal level is quite high, can cover many positions and imo he's good "tactically", so he will perform well in any system (West Ham didn't have any system). For that reason I think he will do very well for Arsenal.

Caicedo is a bit unique DM / potentially deep lying playmaker. More of a specialist but an excellent one. He's class on the ball in deeper areas, can progress the ball and is a already very effective defensively. His ceiling is as high as any other DM around IMO.

I'd be excited to get either of them. I am pretty sure we're not getting anyone significantly better next season. Even if there's a new DM prospect revealed next season, I don’t see why people think we'll pay less than 100m for them.

Couldn't care less about transfer fees. As long as we have enough money to address pain points in the squad, I wouldn't blink twice. And going back to Rice and Caicedo, I'm confident they'll both be considered as good buys one year from now.
 
Caicedo seems to be going for 115m that's 15m more than Rice. Id say that both are about the same level, but Rice is cheaper(who'd have thought that we would get to say that about a 100m player).
 
ThatsGreat said:
Caicedo seems to be going for 115m that's 15m more than Rice. Id say that both are about the same level, but Rice is cheaper(who'd have thought that we would get to say that about a 100m player).
Click to expand...
Does it matter nowadays? Chelsea will be more complete with caicedo overall. Won't give a damn about his price. It's a thing for accountants. After all we spent 100 mn for Lukaku who became useless for us.

Our owners try to sort things out quickly and they try to give full backing to pochettino. Will be interesting to see who give overall impact to respective teams and elevate them assuming caicedo signed for us.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.