Bundesliga fan Moyes interested in Matthias Ginter?

Sean_RedDevil

Twitter bot
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Messages
21,364
Location
NYC (Before Manchester+Hamburg)
http://www.bild.de/sport/fussball/g...chtet-freiburg-verteidiger-34883790.bild.html

Moyes was in Berlin last night according to BILD

Ginter is a very good talent no doubt (He was linked with Arsenal last summer and Bayern Munich & Dortmund are very interested in him too)
But we already have very good young defenders with Jones & Smalling and if we're losing Ferdinand, Vidic & maybe Evra.....then i think we're needing more experience with the new CB signing

Btw Ginter is in Germany's squad for the first time for next weeks game against Chile
 
Saw him branded as "the German Phil Jones" in British papers. Apparently that's because he can play both CB and DM.
 
More of a next Mats Hummels or so I've heard. Can't envision him leaving the Bundesliga until he seals a spot into the NT. One wrong move and Knoche, Tah could overtake him.
 
yanuzay said:
F


Finally, a German in our ranks.

It us ironic how the other centre back that was promoted to Germany's first team squad, was let go by Moyes at Everton.
Click to expand...

I have no idea how good Mustafi really is at the moment, but calling him up for this friendly may be motivated just as much by the fact that the Albanian football federation was trying to get him playing for them.
 
How is (probably) the biggest German CB talent, someone who has 60 Bundesliga games under his belt and just got his first callup for the German NT just a couple of weeks after his 20th birthday, someone who has confirmed interest from both Bayern and Dortmund second tier?
 
Colin129 said:
So we are looking at 2nd tier transfer targets now we aren't getting any CL football?
Click to expand...

Ginter is one of the best talents in Europe, if you don't know him don't assume he is 2nd rate. I'd love him here. Buying him now would prove to be a bargain in the future. Think he'll stay at the Bundesliga
 
Insightful take courtesy of German newbie ManniKaltz concerning Ginter :

Hi there,

German newbie here. I holeheartily agree with your statement re: Ginter, i.e. as he recently (approximately about a month ago) said that despite interest from other leagues, top Bundesliga clubs would have priority for him. He has been linked with Arsenal, Dortmund (for months already), Bayern and Chelsea (more recently IIRC) at the time.

Cheers,
Manni
Click to expand...


Ginter has been a BVB fan as a kid and he admitted recently that they are in talks with him, Bayern being a main competitor - of course. :D

Chances for him wouldn't be too bad: First of all, he's also a decent #6 in DM, and with Sven Bender and our captain Sebastian Kehl being often injured, he'd get some game time. But even as CB I can see him being considered: First of all, nobody knows if Neven will come back as brilliantly as prior to his ligament rupture. Secondly, Neven has always said that he wants to play in the PL one day. His contract runs out in summer 2016 - so at the latest, I would see him moving in summer 2015.

Koray Gunter moved to Galatasaray so it's "only" Marian Sarr, the upcoming Mats Hummels 2.0 - but he's just 18 (played against Marseille in the CL as his first professional match in the 1st team) and quite sensitive, so we anticipate that he needs a bit more time to develop.

I'm not sure how much Leverkusen would benefit him, TBH; clubs like Gladbach, Schalke, or perhaps even Wolfsburg could be better prospects for him (the latter plan to splash serious cash in summer if they reach the EL or CL qualification, and Naldo, their Brazilian CB rock, is in his thirties; time for replacement).

Time will tell. And one fine day, he may play at United, who knows?

Cheers,
Manni
Click to expand...


Fair to say his assessment might be more accurate than most of us.
 
Cant see someone of his potential leaving Germany when both the top clubs are interested in him.
 
Colin129 said:
£7M fee suggests 2nd tier, if he was as good as that, I would have thought he would be a bit more expensive. The fees being bandied around for top young talent e.g. Shaw/Barkley are 3 and 4 times more than this guy.
Click to expand...

Not in Germany. Reus was player of the year and had a 17m € release clause, we got Kagawa a key player for Dortmumd for roughly the same. Most EPL talents are simply way overpriced
 
I no Football Manager 2014 is no way to judge a player (i wonder if thats what Moyes has in this new 'bunker' at Carrington) but i signed him on FM and he was an absolute beast of a player, for that reason i would welcome his signing
 
SiRed said:
I no Football Manager 2014 is no way to judge a player (i wonder if thats what Moyes has in this new 'bunker' at Carrington) but i signed him on FM and he was an absolute beast of a player, for that reason i would welcome his signing
Click to expand...

Yeah so did I. But as long as Moyes remains managers this doesnt excite me at all.
 
Colin129 said:
A £7M fee suggests 2nd tier, if he was as good as that, I would have thought he would be a bit more expensive. The fees being bandied around for top young talent e.g. Shaw/Barkley are 3 and 4 times more than this guy.
Click to expand...

Thats some super logic you have right there. A certain James Millner did also cost three times as much as Ilkay Gündogan. Did that also mean, that Millner was a higher tier player back then? We all know how that turned out...

British top talent will always be more expensive than the German equivalent, because it is quite simply more rare due to a weaker youth system and the national transfer market is way more heated. In Ginter´s case there is also the fact that he plays for a very small club, which can´t demand high salary fees because they can´t afford to miss out on 10 Mil €.

Ginter IS Germany´s biggest CB talent right now and one of the biggest in Europe. The often used comparision to Mats Hummels has its reasons. His huge maturity on the pitch, his strong passing in both accuracy and range, his anticipation skills and good vision are all things, which the young Hummels was praised for. He is definitively a CB, who leans more towards the technical side rather than the pure defensive, physical one.

If Dortmund (his likeliest destination right now) does not get him, then United should make a move for him. The potential synergy with Jones could be great, because I think they would compliment each other very well. Despite how English papers call him they are vastly different player types. He has way more potential than Evans and also likely a higher ceiling than Smalling. He would also be a major steal.
 
£7million is a pittance nowadays, if he's as highly rated as our scouts and Sphaero says he is, we should really give it a go.
 
Colin129 said:
A £7M fee suggests 2nd tier, if he was as good as that, I would have thought he would be a bit more expensive. The fees being bandied around for top young talent e.g. Shaw/Barkley are 3 and 4 times more than this guy.
Click to expand...

Vidal costed Juventus around 15m, Hummels 4.5m, Gundogan around 6m.

If we signed those 3 players in the past we would be competing for the EPL title and not for 6th place.
 
Sphaero said:
Thats some super logic you have right there. A certain James Millner did also cost three times as much as Ilkay Gündogan. Did that also mean, that Millner was a higher tier player back then? We all know how that turned out...

British top talent will always be more expensive than the German equivalent, because it is quite simply more rare due to a weaker youth system and the national transfer market is way more heated. In Ginter´s case there is also the fact that he plays for a very small club, which can´t demand high salary fees because they can´t afford to miss out on 10 Mil €.

Ginter IS Germany´s biggest CB talent right now and one of the biggest in Europe. The often used comparision to Mats Hummels has its reasons. His huge maturity on the pitch, his strong passing in both accuracy and range, his anticipation skills and good vision are all things, which the young Hummels was praised for. He is definitively a CB, who leans more towards the technical side rather than the pure defensive, physical one.

If Dortmund (his likeliest destination right now) does not get him, then United should make a move for him. The potential synergy with Jones could be great, because I think they would compliment each other very well. Despite how English papers call him they are vastly different player types. He has way more potential than Evans and also likely a higher ceiling than Smalling. He would also be a major steal.
Click to expand...

Agree, but Ginter already said in an interview that the Bundesliga he prefers to stay in the Bundesliga and with the ?? over Subotic and Hummels, it's a no brainer that they will try to sign him. Dortmund has a great scouting network and Ginter is definitely one of their main targets. Him and Jones could be the best CB pairing for many, many years.

Ginter is exactly the kind of player we should be looking for, very talented player, who doesn't cost the world and could become world class.
 
devilish said:
Vidal costed Juventus around 15m, Hummels 4.5m, Gundogan around 6m.

If we signed those 3 players in the past we would be competing for the EPL title and not for 6th place.
Click to expand...

Never a truer post sadly.
 
SiRed said:
I no Football Manager 2014 is no way to judge a player (i wonder if thats what Moyes has in this new 'bunker' at Carrington) but i signed him on FM and he was an absolute beast of a player, for that reason i would welcome his signing
Click to expand...

Same.
 
I've never seen this lad play, but a signing like this, given what I've read, would excite me a hell of a lot more than a £30 million plus acquisition from Portugal.

Good defenders can come cheap. It just takes a good eye for talent. Let's hope "the biggest German CB talent" is one of these.
 
If it was small money would be very smart signing. Even if he's not a world beater, 50 apps at 20 years old shows good maturity. I bet if you looked at a list of german defenders that had 50 top flight apps by 20 it would be an impressive list
 
We need to pick stars before they are noticed by the bigger clubs. Its risky but thats the only way to do a bargain these days
 
devilish said:
Vidal costed Juventus around 15m, Hummels 4.5m, Gundogan around 6m.

If we signed those 3 players in the past we would be competing for the EPL title and not for 6th place.
Click to expand...

We'd also have the best scouts in the world. Gundogan was linked with us. Vidal had done very well in Bundasliga, Hummels was a reserve that Bayern were willing to let go. Sure we should have been looking at all of them, but there are always 20-30 names we should be looking at every couple of months and its highly unlikely any one club is going to manage to get the 3 you mentioned and not get a bunch of players who dont settle or doesnt work out in the process.

What if we got those 3 players but spent £100 million on another 5 players that didnt work out?
 
Vidal and Gundogan were so obviously quality it was mind numbing how we weren't even linked to them. It's not like there was many young midfielders getting banded around at a time where we were desperately lacking in midfield and our party line was 'there's no value in the market'.

Hummels, fair enough, I didn't anticipate him to be this good until he went on loan to Dortmund. The other two are unforgiving.

I don't see why we are so willing to take a punt on players like Manucho, Bebe and Diouf but not players like Gundogan, Vidal, even Pogba who have obvious quality and play in the position we are actually lacking in quality!
 
Ekeke said:
We'd also have the best scouts in the world. Gundogan was linked with us. Vidal had done very well in Bundasliga, Hummels was a reserve that Bayern were willing to let go. Sure we should have been looking at all of them, but there are always 20-30 names we should be looking at every couple of months and its highly unlikely any one club is going to manage to get the 3 you mentioned and not get a bunch of players who dont settle or doesnt work out in the process.

What if we got those 3 players but spent £100 million on another 5 players that didnt work out?
Click to expand...

Its risky. However in my opinion it represent value for money then getting EPL proven average players such as Young or Valencia.
 
Señor said:
Vidal and Gundogan were so obviously quality it was mind numbing how we weren't even linked to them. It's not like there was many young midfielders getting banded around at a time where we were desperately lacking in midfield and our party line was 'there's no value in the market'.

Hummels, fair enough, I didn't anticipate him to be this good until he went on loan to Dortmund. The other two are unforgiving.

I don't see why we are so willing to take a punt on players like Manucho, Bebe and Diouf but not players like Gundogan, Vidal, even Pogba who have obvious quality and play in the position we are actually lacking in quality!
Click to expand...

If you ask me, I doubt that SAF or his scouts has ever taken the Bundersliga seriously. If memory serves me right throughout SAF reign we only signed 1 German (and at youth level) and Kagawa was SAF only signing from a top German side. Its a shame because the Bundersliga has always produced great players
 
devilish said:
What if we got those 3 players but spent £100 million on another 5 players that didnt work out?
Click to expand...

Like Bebe, Zaha, Büttner, Valencia and Fellaini?

Sorry...

United should have started looking towards Germany much sooner instead of buying overpriced and overhyped players from the EPL or directly from Portugal/South America.
 
devilish said:
If you ask me, I doubt that SAF or his scouts has ever taken the Bundersliga seriously. If memory serves me right throughout SAF reign we only signed 1 German (and at youth level) and Kagawa was SAF only signing from a top German side. Its a shame because the Bundersliga has always produced great players
Click to expand...

While I get where you're coming from to be fair that's kind of a hyperbole. I doubt very much that Fergie and our scouts actively shunned the Bundesliga. The thing is there are not a lot of German players playing abroad compared to Spaniards, Argentines, Brazilians or Portuguese. They prefer to stay in the Bundesliga even when bigger foreign clubs come calling. In that way it's sort of like British players. There are very few plying there trade outside the isles. Fergie did try a few times to sign Bundesliga players. The few concrete interests I can think of are Hargreaves, Kahn, Ballack and Metzelder. Infact not a lot of German players have been successful in the Premier League. Unless I'm mistaken in recent times I can only think of the ones at Arsenal and Ballack at Chelsea. That might have had a bearing in Fergie's mind.
 
would not mind a few germans in our team right now. infact if all of moyes signings are going to be from the bundesliga then i'll be delighted, especially if one or two of them are from dortmund. we can dream sure?
 
devilish said:
If you ask me, I doubt that SAF or his scouts has ever taken the Bundersliga seriously. If memory serves me right throughout SAF reign we only signed 1 German (and at youth level) and Kagawa was SAF only signing from a top German side. Its a shame because the Bundersliga has always produced great players
Click to expand...

I don't think it's that. Fergie was old school and British. He'd trust a German less than he would an Italian, and we know how he feels about them. There's no other explicable reason.
 
devilish said:
Its risky. However in my opinion it represent value for money then getting EPL proven average players such as Young or Valencia.
Click to expand...

Señor said:
Vidal and Gundogan were so obviously quality it was mind numbing how we weren't even linked to them. It's not like there was many young midfielders getting banded around at a time where we were desperately lacking in midfield and our party line was 'there's no value in the market'.

Hummels, fair enough, I didn't anticipate him to be this good until he went on loan to Dortmund. The other two are unforgiving.

I don't see why we are so willing to take a punt on players like Manucho, Bebe and Diouf but not players like Gundogan, Vidal, even Pogba who have obvious quality and play in the position we are actually lacking in quality!
Click to expand...

? We were linked with Gundogan. Not Vidal. And you might think its obvious but who were linked with Vidal? Juventus and they signed him. Where are Barcelona, Madrid, Chelsea, City, etc? They werent linked either.

I think what is obvious is despite playing really well in bundasliga the season before he left, the top teams werent looking at him to play in their 2 men in midfield. At Juventus he's found the current Italian style of packing the midfield and letting the CMs get forward to perfectly favour him. At this current point its easy to imagine him still being really good in a midfield duo but would he have looked as good a player these past couple of years without being in that 3-5-2 formation that makes the CMs the stars? Probably not so much.
 
Last edited:
A move to an international top club would come too early for him. He only recently bounced back from a really poor spell of form. At Freiburg he's able to play through those holes but that won't be the case at United or elsewhere as soon as championship ambitions come into play.

It would be best for him to stay in the Bundesliga for another two years.
 
Mauzindark said:
While I get where you're coming from to be fair that's kind of a hyperbole. I doubt very much that Fergie and our scouts actively shunned the Bundesliga. The thing is there are not a lot of German players playing abroad compared to Spaniards, Argentines, Brazilians or Portuguese. They prefer to stay in the Bundesliga even when bigger foreign clubs come calling. In that way it's sort of like British players. There are very few plying there trade outside the isles. Fergie did try a few times to sign Bundesliga players. The few concrete interests I can think of are Hargreaves, Kahn, Ballack and Metzelder. Infact not a lot of German players have been successful in the Premier League. Unless I'm mistaken in recent times I can only think of the ones at Arsenal and Ballack at Chelsea. That might have had a bearing in Fergie's mind.
Click to expand...
That's not really true. German players always loved to go abroad, basically all our top players in the 80's and 90's played in Italy or Spain (Rummenigge, Schuster, Matthäus, Kohler, Brehme, Sammer, Klinsmann, Völler, Möller, Reuter, Effenberg, Littbarski, and many more), we already had quite a few players leaving Germany in the 60's and 70's, Schnellinger, Netzer and Breitner for example. The late 90's generation was simply incredibly shit, the few top players we had went to Bayern, but still a few went abroad (Ballack, Metzelder). And right now countless German players are playing abroad, quite a few German youth players are in England and Italy as well.

I've no idea why this myth about German players not leaving the country still exists, but it's in no way comparable to English players.
 
Balu said:
That's not really true. German players always loved to go abroad, basically all our top players in the 80's and 90's played in Italy or Spain (Rummenigge, Schuster, Matthäus, Kohler, Brehme, Sammer, Klinsmann, Völler, Möller, Reuter, Effenberg, Littbarski, and many more), we already had quite a few players leaving Germany in the 60's and 70's, Schnellinger, Netzer and Breitner for example. The late 90's generation was simply incredibly shit, the few top players we had went to Bayern, but still a few went abroad (Ballack, Metzelder). And right now countless German players are playing abroad, quite a few German youth players are in England and Italy as well.

I've no idea why this myth about German players not leaving the country still exists, but it's in no way comparable to English players.
Click to expand...

Maybe I didn't put it very well. I'm not talking about the 80s and 90s - the success of the likes Schuster, Matthaus, Brehme in La Liga and Serie A is well documented. What I wanted to say that even in recent years the bulk of the best German players played in the Bundesliga. That is the kind of players Fergie would have liked to sign for United. Yes in recent times the likes of Klose, Ozil, Khedira, Mertesacker, Schurrle have ventured abroad and there are young German player in other leagues. But even now if you look at the German national team - Neuer - we were in for him but he wanted to move to Bayern, Lahm, Boateng - didn't fit in at City and moved back, Hummels - countless clubs have chased him in the past but he's a stayed at Dortmund, Jansen, Schweinsteiger, Kroos, Gotze - EPL clubs were in for him but he went to Bayern, Bender twins - Liverpool and Arsenal both wanted Lars but he signed a contract extension at Leverkusen, Sam have all preferred to stay in the Bundesliga than move abroad. Surely you can see where I'm coming from. I didn't mean to generalize and offend you and maybe the comparison to English players was wrong, but a vast majority of the best German players - the standard that we need to sign are based in the Bundesliga. Yes there are clubs that have had success with German players but right now I can think of only a few at the highest level in EPL - Arsenal obviously - from Lehmann to Ozil and now their youth players, Chelsea - Ballack, Huth (unsuccessful at the highest level for them), Schurrle, maybe Hamann at Liverpool and Holtby at Tottenham at a stretch. Apart from that I can't really think of German players being successful in the biggest EPL teams.
 
I didn't feel offended, I just believe that going abroad isn't a problem for most German players if they get the right offer. The brilliant generation right now is still young, more than enough time to move for most of the players. But let's not forget that the Bundesliga isn't a bad place to be at the moment.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.