it was worthy of creating a new thread because, well, something about Pogba being more handsome than Bruno.Bruno - What If…
- Thread starter Jeppers7
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it was worthy of creating a new thread because, well, something about Pogba being more handsome than Bruno.Needs to be moved on in the summer
His patented arms out and head tilted pout is my personal favorite (at 50-second mark). Makes me laugh everytime.
I don't know how but I feel like this is both ridiculously harsh on Bruno and also overly generous on Bruno at the same time, and I basically disagree with all of it.
1) He had a year and a half of being extremely good to the point he was up there with any player in the league. A season amd a half if great performances does not equal 6 months. He also hasn't been "awful most of the time" since amd his numbers have still been pretty good, at least up until this season.
2. I don't think the team shape problem is going to be down to someone who mainly plays in a free role. A No10s job isn't to screw the defence or sprint bsck and tackle someone. If Fernandes is doing that it's because someone else isn't where they should be. The fouls happen because he is the wrong side of the ball, which it's quite difficult for him to get around unless he DID ruin the team shape by sitting behind his midfield. I do agree he is petulant I juat doing think the things you've mentioned are what petulance is. The petulance is when he loses the ball far too easily trying to cheat a foul and then pretends to be injured and throws a tantrum, and the other simular stuff he seems incapable of not doing constantly. I also think his work rate is significantly let down by his lack of physicality and tendancy to try and con the ref rather than engage in any kind of physical tussle.
THREE - Firstly, you can't name your point "statman Dave". This is just a person, called Dave. The only reason I know who statman Dave is, is because people sometimes mention him on this forum in order to disagree with him or explain why he is wrong. The one video I did watch of statman dave, he also failed to use any stats and instead focused on talking about formations. His name is therefore inaccurate. He should be called formations Dave. Anyway point being, I don't base my opinions on Bruno on the opinions of other people on the internet. Especially not ones with stupid names. I base it on watching our games, as I suspect most people do. My opinion is that although he isn't playing nearly as well as he has done in the past, he is not exactly our biggest problem when we still regularly rely on much less productive players.
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I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about? Are you saying Bruno would get more criticism if he was as good looking as Lingard? Did you come up with a massive tick box of completely insane reasons to criticise our players and notice no one had done this one yet?
Also, you give four other players as examples. Two were extremely highly regarded during their time here. More so than Bruno. Of the other two one is such a great professional that he is currently banned from all football, and the other is such a great footballer than his club have basically banned him from all football.
Also, frankly, a 39 year old Giggs is basically a much better version of Bruno, which considering this is from someone who rates Bruno as one of our better players, kind of sums up our current problems
The second highest contributor in the Bruno thread starts another Bruno thread
1. He had nothing like 18 months at the level he played at when he first came in.
we played feb and a week in March pre covid then June and July to finish the season. Three months….The next season started mid sept and oct, Nov and part of December he was good. His form post Xmas went very much downhill both performance wise and stats wise. Look through performance thread for evidence.
statistically 3 non pen goals and 4 assists in 22 games doesn’t seem unusual for Bruno anymore but at the time that was a huge drop off.
The next season he started with a hat trick but from then on his season was awful, 7 goals and 6 assists , generally poor performances (all Ronaldo’s fault) and some massive errors leading to crucial goals and crucial penalty misses.
Beyond that first six months of football when he first came in when I thought he was sensational…he hasn’t been. Performance wise for me he’s been more bad than good. Actual statistics that matter he’s been pretty average for someone in his position.
2.Agree to disagree. I think there are times when he presses in a one. After he’s given the ball away or not got a free kick he wanted. Running 60 yards to foul someone is a bad thing when it’s on the edge of the box and you can see it coming.
3.The point is there because in his performance thread it will be unanimous that he’s had 5/6 poor games in a row….then 3 days after a game one of 5/6 posters will post a Statman Dave post telling us he’s been the best player in the league. Then post after post from the same people go on about how great he’s been….but where were they after the actual performances? It’s a thing.
4.Response to this is unnecessarily childish. But that’s what generally happens when people like a player. I’ll spell it out, not that I think you genuinely completely missed the point unwillingly. Good looking players/flash/flamboyant characters are singled out for criticism more than those with a ‘man in the street appeal’. Whilst you can find threads and multiple posts criticising JLings and Beans for their ‘antics’ and particularly (non of anyone’s business) fashion sense, you won’t find any criticising Bruno’s Levi 501s and Adidas Sambas.
Yes Giggs was a far better player. Nothing too much wrong with that, whatever age. He’s one of the greatest players we’ve ever had. Bruno has a lot of positive regard for a player who hasn’t been great overall.
The thread really is about why that is, and what if he dressed like JLings, called Rashy Beans….but his performances were the same? My opinion is that if that were the case…opinions on his time here would be different. Take out the first six months of football and the random stats would that affect some of the posters who are blind to Bruno’s faults yet hyper critical of others? If David Beckham looked and behaved off the pitch like Dennis Irwin I think he would have had a lot less stick than he sometimes got from United fans on the pitch. His performances were consistently brilliant. If Bruno had a more flashy persona…dyed hair, diamond earrings, gold boots a media presence I think he’d be far less liked by a lot of people who don’t seem to think he should be criticised for his performances.
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Players with less regard have had performances equal and better than Bruno’s last night more regularly.
When you say ‘another’ do you mean ‘a’ ? Because I haven’t made multiple? In fact as much as you can cry about it….it is a question for me that a player who has so many poor performances has so many posters and supporters, plus media that just don’t acknowledge anything other than how great he is.
1) Even going by your somewhat disputable opinion here, that makes 12 months. He joined in January, was excellent the remainder of that season and then according to you for only half of the next one. I think that's wide of the mark but even if it isn't you're being disingenuous and it juat comes across like you're itching to criticise a player to the point you'll twist truth to do it, which IS childish.
2) If a player is having to run 60 yards behind the ball to make a challenge that means the midfield is not doing its job. Bruno plays as a no10. He could not make the challenge but then we concede chances and goals due to players running unchallenged into our box. I would prefer if our team and particularly midfield structure was solid enough that Bruno (among others) weren't making those types of challenges multiple times a game. Where I would criticise him is that part of the reason the problem develops is because he too often let's a player past him with pathetically little resistance which then leads to a counter attack.
3) I don't care about Statman Dave. It might be a thing but someone's opinion does not hold more value just because they call themselves "statman". Anyone can look at stats. He's no different from anyone on here who might be biased towards or against certain players or just have a differing opinion on them
4) No I think you are just talking rubbish here. Who the hell is beans? Lingard was criticised because he was rubbish, behaved like an idiot and acted like a spiteful baby about the club on social media. He also, it turns out, isn't good enough for Nottingham Forest. I can't think of a single player who's made a career out of being a "man on the street". Rooney was ugly and chavvy as hell and is probably the most unfairly criticised footballer in the history of Redcafe. Fernandes is among the most criticised players on this forum and at the club. Often for completely fabricated reasons like pretending he asked to be subbed off vs Liverpool. Now you are apparently criticising him because you think he escapes criticism due to having an ugly face. This makes you sound like a crazy person
I mean, I didn't want to say it, but we were all thinking it.
I think Bruno is our best player.
Without him, we just don't tick.
He does like the Hollywood balls, but without those, we rarely score.
Without him, we just don't tick.
He does like the Hollywood balls, but without those, we rarely score.
Martinez - injured most of the time.
Shaw - injured a lot and constantly making comebacks. He is one of our best players, though.
Varane - When not injured, he is our best defender, but he rarely plays
Casemiro - injured
Rashford - not sure what's wrong with him, but this guy can't score a goal. A striker who can't score a goal is no good.
Garnacho - too early to tell, but he looks very good right now. Not sure where he'll be in a year, though.
Mount - I've rarely seen this guy play. Is he permanently injured?
Mainoo - Far too early to tell. Certainly not anywhere near the level of Bruno.
This, exactly. Cannot understand the grief this guy gets on here. Yes, he’s not having his best season but he is still head and shoulders above any other regular player. I know he is not the best for letting his emotions getting the better of him, but at least he has emotions.
Full 2 minutes of him NOT being the hardest working player in our team? Disgusting!!
Bruno - what if… people stop wanting him to be a different player, accept him for his own strengths and acknowledge the monumental impact he has had on this club since he arrived. Nah, didn’t think so. 
Bruno is a good player, let's not pretend he's some Sunday league imposter, but he's not on the levels of other players who top teams accommodate (Salah, Haaland etc.) because their output is elite. The ironic thing is, I think if he were more controlled (if he allows himself to have more of a set role) he'd probably be much more effective because, when you actually look at his time here, his influence has waned season on season until he's basically become a mid table AM but playing like a second striker at times.
19/20. Played 14. 8 Goals, 7 Assists.
20/21. Played 37. 18 Goals, 11 Assists.
21/22. Played 36. 10 Goals, 6 Assists.
22/23. Played 37. 8 Goals, 8 Assists.
23/24. Played 18. 3 Goals, 3 Assists.
If you break his game down this season, he's not a natural finisher and he's actually quite poor in front of goal despite him having so much attacking freedom and leeway to do as he wants. Compare him to the below.
For some added context these key stats have decreased year on year since he joined us. His peak was in 20/21 (1 goal every 4.67 shots and an accuracy of 60%). He's become a bit like Morten Gamst Pedersen for me last few seasons for anyone who remembers him - he scores bangers regularly and made great long pass assists and you almost remember him as better than he was because of these moments.
I'd like to see him move back a little into the midfield as more of a CM where his main strengths (stamina, tenacity, pressing, aggression) are allowed to shine and the goal scoring burden moves more onto our forwards and another CM/AM who is lot more sensible with the ball in advanced areas. His dribbling is appalling compared to his peers (16th percentile for carries and take ons) as is his pass completion (32nd percentile) but he's actually very good defensively and his pass completion % would dramatically change if he comes deeper and starts to just play more of the current Eriksen role which I think he can definitely do. He will be much more dangerous in that role in my opinion, putting crosses in from deep like Eriksen does, getting turnovers and creating counter opportunities like against Villa. Just take him 10 yards or so deeper and stop him shooting so much - he can basically be a better version of McGinn for me if I think of a comparable player in terms of style and skillsets (McGinn roams less and tends to stick a bit more left, similar to Maddison, and spends more time centrally a bit deeper).
19/20. Played 14. 8 Goals, 7 Assists.
20/21. Played 37. 18 Goals, 11 Assists.
21/22. Played 36. 10 Goals, 6 Assists.
22/23. Played 37. 8 Goals, 8 Assists.
23/24. Played 18. 3 Goals, 3 Assists.
If you break his game down this season, he's not a natural finisher and he's actually quite poor in front of goal despite him having so much attacking freedom and leeway to do as he wants. Compare him to the below.
| Player | Goals | #shots per goal | Accuracy |
| Bruno | 3 | 11 | 51% (69th percentile) |
| Maddison | 3 | 7 | 66% (90th percentile) |
| McGinn | 5 | 3.4 | 58% (78th percentile) |
| Pereira | 1 | 13 | 30% (39th percentile) |
| Odegaard | 4 | 6.25 | 56% (75th percentile) |
| Silva | 5 | 2.75 | 72% (93rd percentile) |
| JWP | 3 | 4.67 | 64% (85th percentile) |
For some added context these key stats have decreased year on year since he joined us. His peak was in 20/21 (1 goal every 4.67 shots and an accuracy of 60%). He's become a bit like Morten Gamst Pedersen for me last few seasons for anyone who remembers him - he scores bangers regularly and made great long pass assists and you almost remember him as better than he was because of these moments.
I'd like to see him move back a little into the midfield as more of a CM where his main strengths (stamina, tenacity, pressing, aggression) are allowed to shine and the goal scoring burden moves more onto our forwards and another CM/AM who is lot more sensible with the ball in advanced areas. His dribbling is appalling compared to his peers (16th percentile for carries and take ons) as is his pass completion (32nd percentile) but he's actually very good defensively and his pass completion % would dramatically change if he comes deeper and starts to just play more of the current Eriksen role which I think he can definitely do. He will be much more dangerous in that role in my opinion, putting crosses in from deep like Eriksen does, getting turnovers and creating counter opportunities like against Villa. Just take him 10 yards or so deeper and stop him shooting so much - he can basically be a better version of McGinn for me if I think of a comparable player in terms of style and skillsets (McGinn roams less and tends to stick a bit more left, similar to Maddison, and spends more time centrally a bit deeper).
1.It isn’t twisting the truth…Within five weeks of signing him we didn’t play for three months. We then played two months and didn’t play again for another two months. If you’d class that as 8 months of football, I’d say that’s up to you. It certainly isn’t childish to look at Covid as an anomaly and take the football out of the time rather than include five months where no football was played.
As already suggested take the general consensus of match day threads at the time. It won’t be wide of the mark. If it says he was brilliant he will have been.
2. The midfield is often out of position when the wrong pass is played at the wrong time, or because one of them decides to lie on the floor for ten seconds then jump up and run half the length of the pitch. On Wednesday he had more impact with a better midfield around him but still had a pass completion of only 66%
3.Totally agree. Doesn’t change the fact that some peoples opinions seem to be based upon these tweets as seen over the past couple of days once again.
4.Ridiculous response. If you think unconscious bias and grouping doesn’t exist and isn’t a basic human instinct then you’re wrong. One of the factors that absolutely goes in Bruno’s favour is that the general fan can relate to him in ways that they can’t with other examples given. You keep ignoring parts of my posts in favour of picking out points that I’m not making. Obviously you aren’t that stupid but hey ho. If I go with the examples you have given….
Rooney, absolute man on the street appeal…It doesn’t mean he would never be criticised, it meant that it was only after he held the team back for a long time due to a massive decline and playing in CM where he wasn’t very good as his legs had gone, held the club and manager to ransoms twice and tried to sign for City and Chelsea that he even started to receive criticism. He was probably the most universally loved player at the club until his last few seasons. People literally claimed he was better than Ronaldo, even when Ronaldo was scoring 40 goals a season, based purely on regard. Ronaldo had to score 40 goals a season and be outstanding where Rooney would score 15 league goals on average and 20 overall with goals coming in batches and long barren spells most seasons without criticism until he declined. As for trying to sign for City or Chelsea, of course that would bring criticism but I’ve seen much worse for much less, on the flip side Rooney had done enough at those points to be afforded a pass, where others had not. I still suggest it’s not the only factor in play with the criticism though.
Lingard, again pointing out the last few months of his time as the overall picture isn’t doing you any favours as it makes you look disingenuous and childish. He is a player who came through the ranks and was a very decent squad player and at times first team regular for around 7 years. Until the club decided not to accept a reasonable offer for him, keep him and didn’t play him, he’d been no problem for any manager and had scored in two cup finals. An absolute stunning winner in an FA Cup final. He was never my favourite player but he was a good squad player for us and the rest of the criticism you have posted highlights the point I’m making. People didn’t like him for reasons that have nothing to do with football. Some of the threads and posts about what he wore and what events he went to were disgraceful. The criticism here came years before he showed any displeasure at being at United. Not sure what his decline at Forest has to do with how fans viewed his dress sense five years ago either, nobody is saying he should still be at the club. The point is he was disliked for non football related issues like personality and flamboyance.
Fernandes is criticised by some for his performances, but what is the reason that the general public, media and masses of United fans are ignorant to his performances? Why is his petulance accepted. Would people accept some of the other players mentioned behaving in a manner that puts their teammates under pressure and leaves them a man down because they haven’t got a free kick they wanted…on a regular basis. I don’t believe so…but why do they accept it of Bruno when they wouldnt of Nani? Why is it not highlighted at all when Bruno lets someone run of him and they score, yet other players have been highlighted any time a player was anywhere near them. You bring up one incident in the 7-0 at Liverpool but ignore his behaviour in that game which led Neville to conclude he wanted to come off. I can’t remember a more self serving display of petulance from a United player in a game than Bruno….in a 7-0 at Anfield. Perhaps Neil Webb when he walked off the pitch at OT after being substituted to a chorus of boos?
A lot of the incidents here led to Liverpool attacking while Bruno moaned at the ref, the last incident is an absolute and utter disgrace. To me Bruno hasn’t done anything to warrant being dissolved of criticism, but outside of Neville it was largely ignored. Nobody mentions it anymore. Other players mentioned would have be strung up for that. Pogba for example got criticised for being sent off for a clumsy tackle after a hospital pass from Bruno…claims he got himself sent off because he didn’t want to play. Rooney & Bruno would’ve been lauded for the tackle and Pogba slated for the pass…But again why is this?
What monumental impact? We’ve never been worse over a four year period in my lifetime. We’ve never won so little? It’s not all his fault, I’m not saying that…but what is the monumental impact if we have declined from the moment he came.Bruno - what if… people stop wanting him to be a different player, accept him for his own strengths and acknowledge the monumental impact he has had on this club since he arrived. Nah, didn’t think so.
Literally the worst player related thread in the cafe's history. Deary me........
He's one of our best players. He starts to try too hard when things don't click and it makes things worse. Just needs to keep cooler in general.
And so we're back to talking about that one game again. Get over it mate. It was almost a year ago and he's not put in a performance like that since. I really wish our own fans would stop bringing up the 7-0 to try and prove a point. Lord knows we hear enough about it from opposition fans. Embedding YouTube clips from our most humiliating defeat in my lifetime isn't going to achieve much. "Look at that incident at the 2 minute mark just before they score their 7th!"... I'd rather not, thanks.
He can't let it go. I clocked it early on with Jeppers. He's forever pissed that Bruno came in, took the Pogba role and got the plaudits he feels Pogba should have got. That's what all this is really about.
Just notice how often he brings up Pogba when talking about Bruno. Even now with Pogba gone it's still happening.
in his first 3.5 years at the club he was one of two players during that timeframe in the top 5 leagues to register 50 goals and 50 assists, along with Messi
When's ETH gonna get this memo.
Thats a different issue, it’s not on Bruno - he always does a) what the coach asks him too even if it’s detrimental to his game; and b) his best.
We don't "tick" with him on the side either though that's the problem.
100%
I literally don’t know how to reply to this post, you can’t be serious?!
However, I checked your post history and you seem to have an unhealthy obsession/hatred of Bruno, so you might be serious after all.
Kinda makes conversation with you pointless, and to claim we have declined since Bruno signed without any context of the wiser situation at the club is ridiculous.
I don’t think that’s a Bruno problem, that’s United in general. There was a good link up play for the offside goal which shows we do have it in us to play good football.
I have never seen a player so polarizing in opinion that does so much for his team then Bruno.
Our fam base quite frankly doesn't deserve to have a player like Bruno.
It's embarrassing some of the takes ok here.
Our fam base quite frankly doesn't deserve to have a player like Bruno.
It's embarrassing some of the takes ok here.
We won less in the 80s. I also think it’s far harder for one good player to have an impact now. The game is so built around systems that one player coming in and out of a team is rarely going to have a Bryan Robson type impact. In fact, put Robson in this team and we’d still be struggling to get near the top team in the league, much like the 80s.
Completely agree. Nothing’s baffled me as much on this forum as the takes on Bruno. He is exactly the type of player that made us great in our best years and our fanbase used to adore.
I don’t disagree…but then I’m struggling with ‘monumental impact’ from Bruno. I can’t think of big game moments and performances against big teams that got us over the line ala Robson. Hes not delivered when it’s really mattered and Robson absolutely did.He’s not been consistent and his stats beyond the first season and a half, after Klopps outburst, have been mediocre.
Im not going down the line of don’t compare him to Robson, because I get the point you are making and it isn’t that.
You could try and point out the impact he’s had ? Big game moments, where he’s got us over the line? Monumental ‘impact’ to me is transformative as an individual eg.Cantona. Ronaldo when he transformed from teenage talent to best player in the world. They changed the team from also rans to champions. Robson in lesser teams and obviously in between we have had many more players who have had monumental impacts without the team instantly transforming such as Keane, Becks, Scholes, Giggs, Rooney, Vidic, Rio etc.
No I don’t think Bruno has had a monumental impact. I can’t think of anything he’s got us over the line in or lists of big games where he’s been monumental. But I’m open to your thoughts.
I can't think of any big game moments in cup finals from Kane either - the absolute fraud.
Bruno would be such a baller in a better team. Whereas in Man Utd he probably feels like he needs to create all our chances (he does), resulting in lots of freak pass attempts and loss of possession. Look at him in Portugal, i know NT games are much slower and different than Premier League games, but when he’s in a side with better teammates offensively he doesnt feel the need to make all these insane pass attempts at all times.
He’s our only creating force and he would be a goal/assist machine once again if we only had a few more threats on the field.
He’s our only creating force and he would be a goal/assist machine once again if we only had a few more threats on the field.
Weirdly (and goes with the opinion of Bruno being a polarising player), I can agree with everyone's opinion on here. He's got elite vision and dangerous when facing the opposition goal with players attacking space. He's brave and my god, does he work hard. On the flip side, he's ill disciplined in temperament and positioning, weak as a toddler and can't dribble.
Full disclosure: I just don't like this type of player but can acknowledge we are currently a bigger threat with him in the team.
Full disclosure: I just don't like this type of player but can acknowledge we are currently a bigger threat with him in the team.
Hope you're doing okay today bro.
Thank god the player found his form after all. A little smugness is always lightening the mood.