Bruno Fernandes | United not interested due to doubts over passing ability

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Taking a look at last season stats at Whoscored, Bruno averaged 53.4 passes per game in the league and he played 2942 minutes. That's the equivalent of 32.7 full games and 1745 passes in total. 6th in the league with most passes, with three out of the five players above him being defenders.

He had 3.2 key passes per game, the second best in the league, and he gave 13 assists, second best in the league again.

He was the first in average shots per game (3.6) which meant 117 shots and 20 goals, 2nd best scorer in the league.

So it seems that everything goes through him at Sporting attacking wise. He's the risk taker of the team and he's been given the platform to make the difference with goals and assists, which means two things in my opinion.

Firstly that his total numbers (goals, asissts, key passes, total ball loses, etc) are all inflated because of the way Sporting is configured around him. He's clearly a talented player with good offensive production but he's being 'overexploited', which means that all his numbers are going to be higher than normal in every department.

In a harder league, without that freedom and sharing responsibilities with the rest of the team he wouldn't hit those figures of goals and assists, not even close. But at the same time his passing completion would be better surely, because he wouldn't be taking risky passes and forcing things all the time.

Last season he played 172 minutes for Portugal and he had 80 % pass completion but only 2 key passes in total, 1 per game approx. It's 5 % better in terms of pass completion but far from the 3.2 key pases per game with Sporting. Not a good example with just a pair of games, but I expect something similar if he goes elsewhere.

Overall a good player to have as a productive 10, but vastly overpaid at 70 - 80 M. €, if these are the numbers that Sporting are demanding. If that 35 M clause was a release clause he would have signed for a good PL team already, I think. He's a good player to take a punt and have around, hardworking, energetic, team captain, but there's important question marks there to happily spend major figures on him.
 
Surely this could just mean he's a player who takes a lot of risks? If you get 20 goals 13 assists from midfield you're likely to mess up more often than other midfielders who are more likely to take the safer option most of the time.

It's much easier to not misplace a pass when you're a sideways merchant.
He does take a lot of risks.
Doesn't help that players around him are really not that good. Sporting's current ball and player movement is not great.
In essence, Bruno has to create the vast majority of goal scoring opportunities. I believe his high # of pass fails is largely connected to that.


He s not shit but he s not worth nowhere near 70 m. At the time being he s in the a30-40m bracket imo

Spot on.
Sporting was asking for 70m, which is insane.
 
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Taking a look at last season stats at Whoscored, Bruno averaged 53.4 passes per game in the league and he played 2942 minutes. That's the equivalent of 32.7 full games and 1745 passes in total. 6th in the league with most passes, with three out of the five players above him being defenders.

He had 3.2 key passes per game, the second best in the league, and he gave 13 assists, second best in the league again.

He was the first in average shots per game (3.6) which meant 117 shots and 20 goals, 2nd best scorer in the league.

So it seems that everything goes through him at Sporting attacking wise. He's the risk taker of the team and he's been given the platform to make the difference with goals and assists, which means two things in my opinion.

Firstly that his total numbers (goals, asissts, key passes, total ball loses, etc) are all inflated because of the way Sporting is configured around him. He's clearly a talented player with good offensive production but he's being 'overexploited', which means that all his numbers are going to be higher than normal in every department.

In a harder league, without that freedom and sharing responsibilities with the rest of the team he wouldn't hit those figures of goals and assists, not even close. But at the same time his passing completion would be better surely, because he wouldn't be taking risky passes and forcing things all the time.

Last season he played 172 minutes for Portugal and he had 80 % pass completion but only 2 key passes in total, 1 per game approx. It's 5 % better in terms of pass completion but far from the 3.2 key pases per game with Sporting. Not a good example with just a pair of games, but I expect something similar if he goes elsewhere.

Overall a good player to have as a productive 10, but vastly overpaid at 70 - 80 M. €, if these are the numbers that Sporting are demanding. If that 35 M clause was a release clause he would have signed for a good PL team already, I think. He's a good player to take a punt and have around, hardworking, energetic, team captain, but there's important question marks there to happily spend major figures on him.

This is the clear case of United putting out articles or bull crap journalism of why we didn't buy him just so that the fans will be appeased somehow. We scouted the guy since last December and were convinced that we had to get him in until the very end and then later on to pull out because he's too much of a risk-taker? Are you serious? Risk takers win you games not the Matic types that pass sideways or backwards. It's the clear case of Woodward hoping to get Bruno for 35m or so and the fact that Felix got sold for 100m is what kind of drove the price and Sporting looking to cash in for 60m or so. Now, if we were to act quickly and had the deal done before, we could have gotten him for 40m like what Spurs did with Ndombele. They acted quickly and they've got a player in Ndombele (who I feel will dominate the PL for the next 4 to 5 years).
 
This is the clear case of United putting out articles or bull crap journalism of why we didn't buy him just so that the fans will be appeased somehow. We scouted the guy since last December and were convinced that we had to get him in until the very end and then later on to pull out because he's too much of a risk-taker? Are you serious? Risk takers win you games not the Matic types that pass sideways or backwards. It's the clear case of Woodward hoping to get Bruno for 35m or so and the fact that Felix got sold for 100m is what kind of drove the price and Sporting looking to cash in for 60m or so. Now, if we were to act quickly and had the deal done before, we could have gotten him for 40m like what Spurs did with Ndombele. They acted quickly and they've got a player in Ndombele (who I feel will dominate the PL for the next 4 to 5 years).
I never suggested that we pulled out because he's a risk taker. Actually I haven't even suggested that we pulled out at any point because I don't really know if we were trying to sign the guy, or it was his agent and Sporting using their media to promote the player. Maybe our interest was dependant on Pogba leaving, I don't really know, so I didn't mention anything related with our potential transfer.

What I did is looking at his stats of last season and give my opinion about the player and his role in the team. And based on the numbers I think Bruno is massive for them, the masterpiece of that team. So it's logical for the club to resist certain offers and ask for whatever they want.

I didn't suggest either that being a risk taker is bad or something. That's just his role for Sporting and it's very apparent. He's the best player they have and they rely heavily on him to deliver goals and assists. I said this to remark that the balls lost and misplaced passes don't mean he's a bad player, as he's just trying to force things and it's normal to have lower pass completion than someone playing safe.

My main doubts are based mainly on the context. He's playing in the portuguese league, the team is configured to get Fernandes super involved in all the offensive actions, giving him all freedom to shoot, pass or do whatever without fears. But when you take the same player to different circumstances (harder league, a more conservative role, not so much freedom anymore, sharing the creative burden instead of being the principal focus, etc) the story can change dramatically. So it would be naive to think that he could replicate his numbers everywhere, probably not even close.

This is why I think clubs in general could find the player interesting, but once you analyze things deeper there's obvious question marks to spend huge sums. It doesn't mean I agree with that article at all, and I'm arguing against it in fact, because as I said in my previous post his pass completion would improve in different circumstances, like it happened with Portugal NT and like it would happen if he played for any other team that didn't leave everything on his shoulders.
 
I never suggested that we pulled out because he's a risk taker. Actually I haven't even suggested that we pulled out at any point because I don't really know if we were trying to sign the guy, or it was his agent and Sporting using their media to promote the player. Maybe our interest was dependant on Pogba leaving, I don't really know, so I didn't mention anything related with our potential transfer.

What I did is looking at his stats of last season and give my opinion about the player and his role in the team. And based on the numbers I think Bruno is massive for them, the masterpiece of that team. So it's logical for the club to resist certain offers and ask for whatever they want.

I didn't suggest either that being a risk taker is bad or something. That's just his role for Sporting and it's very apparent. He's the best player they have and they rely heavily on him to deliver goals and assists. I said this to remark that the balls lost and misplaced passes don't mean he's a bad player, as he's just trying to force things and it's normal to have lower pass completion than someone playing safe.

My main doubts are based mainly on the context. He's playing in the portuguese league, the team is configured to get Fernandes super involved in all the offensive actions, giving him all freedom to shoot, pass or do whatever without fears. But when you take the same player to different circumstances (harder league, a more conservative role, not so much freedom anymore, sharing the creative burden instead of being the principal focus, etc) the story can change dramatically. So it would be naive to think that he could replicate his numbers everywhere, probably not even close.

This is why I think clubs in general could find the player interesting, but once you analyze things deeper there's obvious question marks to spend huge sums. It doesn't mean I agree with that article at all, and I'm arguing against it in fact, because as I said in my previous post his pass completion would improve in different circumstances, like it happened with Portugal NT and like it would happen if he played for any other team that didn't leave everything on his shoulders.

Sorry, my post was in response to the article and not your comment. I quoted you erroneously.
 


These stats have to be put into context as well.
For example Put me in midfield next to him, everytime i get the ball i will pass sideways and backwards, my passing percentage will be 80-90%. Should that stat make me a transfer target for Utd?
 
I always felt this was another Gaitan situation, he's a decent player but I still think he'll end up at a club like Roma or Valencia, not the very top clubs. As far as whether Ole wants to play more possession football, he's talked numerous times after games about how we've used the ball poorly and not retained it well enough to control the game.
 
I definitely feel like having him and Pogba in the same midfield wouldn't work particularly well, so generally go with the belief that he was targeted by United only in the scenario where Pogba left.

I don't think we were ever interested. Not because he's not a good player (by all accounts he is) but Pochettino's two main targets (lo celso and ndombele) were both captured, maybe we looked at Fernandes as a possible alternative but certainly don't feel he was ever a first choice.
 


Haha.... and we wanted Longstaff (because after 9 games), United were able to gauge how perfectly he would fit in our midfield.

Come on Ed, you can do much better PR than putting out these frivolous stories out there as reasons why Bruno wasn't a good fit for us. Bruno may or may not replicate last season's form but he's miles better than McTominay, Periera, Fred, Matic, Lingard and Mata. We lost two midfielders in Fellaini and Herrera and it was criminal that we didn't have atleast one midfielder brought in. I don't even care if it wasn't Bruno but you should have atleast considered like a loan deal or something. Tielemans was available for 35m and he showed what he was capable of in the second half of the season.

Also, Ole doesn't play possession-based football which is where Bruno would have excelled immensely with his pressing, hardworking nature and direct style of play.
 
What a load of hogwash from ESPN. Its like they havent been watching united under Ole.

he doesn't have the midfielders for it currently

doesn't mean he doesn't want to bring those sort of players in

he broke the world record for a CB who's good on the ball, he was after Longstaff.. with this report as well it doesn't seem that much of a stretch to suggest that is the long term plan

but playing possession football with our current crop would not work
 
Haha.... and we wanted Longstaff (because after 9 games), United were able to gauge how perfectly he would fit in our midfield.

Come on Ed, you can do much better PR than putting out these frivolous stories out there as reasons why Bruno wasn't a good fit for us. Bruno may or may not replicate last season's form but he's miles better than McTominay, Periera, Fred, Matic, Lingard and Mata. We lost two midfielders in Fellaini and Herrera and it was criminal that we didn't have atleast one midfielder brought in. I don't even care if it wasn't Bruno but you should have atleast considered like a loan deal or something. Tielemans was available for 35m and he showed what he was capable of in the second half of the season.

Also, Ole doesn't play possession-based football which is where Bruno would have excelled immensely with his pressing, hardworking nature and direct style of play.
Exactly. As is often the case with Manchester United under Woodward:

Why won't we just shut the f*ck up?
 
I am sorry but anyone saying he is worth 30-40M when he is unquestionably by far the best player in the league is having a pure laugh.

60M in todays market is more than fair with a potential 10M in add ons included.

30M? have you seen the rubbish being moved around England for 30M. Unbelievable.
 
Also for the misplaced pass stat. I challenge anyone to look at the absolute shit that is surrounded around Sporting before reading too much into that stat. He is the brain of the team, any ounce of creativity or goal threat goes through him thus he has to make more risks. Make the tougher passes think out the better runs for his teammates to make and also a lot of times he has to force a lot of things because his teammates are simply incapable of more.

The only decent player in the midfield and front 3 besides Bruno is Wendel and at times even he is an unknown quantity at 21.

The moment Felix went for 120M, 70M became the fair fixed price for the best player in the league. (Also just in case anyone is feeling a little excited, No I am not calling Felix shet, I was the first to even introduce Felix to this forum and have stated I can't help but like the SOB despite him being from Benfica. He still is no where near 120M though. But the market is fecked.)
 
I definitely feel like having him and Pogba in the same midfield wouldn't work particularly well, so generally go with the belief that he was targeted by United only in the scenario where Pogba left.

I don't think we were ever interested. Not because he's not a good player (by all accounts he is) but Pochettino's two main targets (lo celso and ndombele) were both captured, maybe we looked at Fernandes as a possible alternative but certainly don't feel he was ever a first choice.
I said this since day 1 !!

If Pogba stays Bruno does not join. If Pogba leaves Bruno would be a United place at this very moment. Makes zero sense to have both of them in the midfield.
 
There was no Deal in place agreed. But I m under the impression that we had some level of interest in the player
No interest at all, no enquiry, no conversations, nothing.
All the supposed interest was from his agent.
Spurs were the only club to have genuine interest and to have spoken to the club regarding a fee.
 
@SportingCP96 I kind of feel like the latest stories about Fernandes are the result of chinese whispers. Someone told someone who told someone else and the message has been garbled.

I think its clear that United's main midfield need is for a controlling midfielder, a new Carrick or Scholes. This is illustrated by the rumoured targets that United apparently prioritised e.g. Erikssen. Fernandes is not that kind of player, therefore, for the role United needed to fill most he would not have been the right buy.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dawson misinterpreted, or the person who briefed him misinterpreted, and we've ended up with his possession stats aren't good enough.
 
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People are comparing this guy with Pogba and DeBruyne.... just because he loses the ball a lot.... Christ, he'd have been on the move this summer if he was that good.

He's obviously not that good as no one is in for him at all. There's lots of agent talk and very little substance.

He's a big fish in a small pond. I don't see how anyone can watch his highlight reel and think he'd score a high % of those goals in England.

He has so much time and space to tee himself up and a lot of the goal keeping is poor.
 
455 mispasses? taking risks or not that is still a feckton of mispasses.

I would love to watch a team where He, Darmian, Bebe, Lukaku and Fellaini play together.
 
This is the clear case of United putting out articles or bull crap journalism of why we didn't buy him just so that the fans will be appeased somehow. We scouted the guy since last December and were convinced that we had to get him in until the very end and then later on to pull out because he's too much of a risk-taker? Are you serious? Risk takers win you games not the Matic types that pass sideways or backwards. It's the clear case of Woodward hoping to get Bruno for 35m or so and the fact that Felix got sold for 100m is what kind of drove the price and Sporting looking to cash in for 60m or so. Now, if we were to act quickly and had the deal done before, we could have gotten him for 40m like what Spurs did with Ndombele. They acted quickly and they've got a player in Ndombele (who I feel will dominate the PL for the next 4 to 5 years).

The club (reportedly) pulled out of the negotiations because the price point did not match the player. I'm not sure what makes you think we could have gotten the deal done at £40m, not a single comment from journos, agents, general rumour mill or the sporting president himself has suggested that a £40m price tag was realisitic. They asked for almost double that.

I'm fine with us stepping away from this deal for some very important reasons: The club scouted him. Professional football scouts who have watched the player day in and day out and have data to make an actual educated opinion about the player and how well he would do here. Not a single person on the caf does. We can all read statistical data but they are data from the portugese league. I think of myself as someone who knows a lot about football and players in general, because I am at my heart a stat junkie, I love comparisons and data charts with a fiery passion. I'll look up scouting videos and make an opinion in my comfy chair at home.

There are risk takers who take risks by world class involvements like Paul Pogba. His big risks will sometimes amount to a goal. That is why Ole does not lose his marbles when Pogba loses possesion, because he also has the will and ability to do the defensive work and win the ball back if he can. Is Bruno Fernandes that man? Fernandes is not a good defensive player by any standard according to what I've read on the player. And at a reported 70-80m price? Just no. Were we in for him for even £40m as you suggested? It doesn't look likt it now does it. Instead we went to a more expensive player in Christian Eriksen who unfortunately does not want to sign for another English club.

So based on this you can make the argument that a player is worth both £10m and £100m if he's going to play an important role in our midfield, so what's the problem with the money? Because the club does not play the lottery with £30 million pounds and cross fingers like they would have done on Bruno Fernandes when they add up their scouts observations compared to his potential influence.

But again, importantly, the people who observed the player for months saw something that we don't, and that's why we haven't bought Bruno Fernandes.
 
Haha.... and we wanted Longstaff 1) (because after 9 games), United were able to gauge how perfectly he would fit in our midfield.

Come on Ed, you can do much better PR than putting out these frivolous stories out there as reasons why Bruno wasn't a good fit for us. Bruno may or may not replicate last season's form but he's miles better than McTominay, Periera, Fred, Matic, Lingard and Mata. We lost two midfielders in Fellaini and Herrera and it was criminal that we didn't have atleast one midfielder brought in. I don't even care if it wasn't Bruno but you should have atleast considered like a loan deal or something. Tielemans was available for 35m and he showed what he was capable of in the second half of the season.

Also, 2) Ole doesn't play possession-based football which is where Bruno would have excelled immensely with his pressing, hardworking nature and direct style of play.

1) Do you really think that the Man United coaching staff have only looked at Sean Longstaff for 9 games? I can guarantee you they have more information on the player than that. But that's beside the point. Longstaff, like James, is a risk project. Manchester United put a offer on the table north of £30 million before the window closed and Newcastle turned it down. Their valuation for the player was reported to be £50 million based on potential talent alone. We were never touching that.

2) I saw every minute of every pre-season game the club played. In every single game we played a high pressing game with players retrieving and winning the ball way high in the attacking midfield. They did it against Tottenham and they did it against Inter with great success. Yes pre-season bla bla, but it's not like the other team is trying to lose the game now is it. My point is that Ole certainly wants to play high pressing. But we are straight up going to have to adapt when the situation calls for it, which we did against Chelsea. A game like Wolverhampton is a perfect game for us to play the high press, as long as we are vary of the counter attack.

Thing is no one were speaking about Bruno Fernandes before the transfer rumous started to surge, and now a lot of people are saying he would have done this and that with such great conviction I'm almost tempted to think that some of you might be watching Sporting play games weekly for fun. Or maybe people get influenced by The United Stand and take the opinion as gospel.
 
He's obviously not that good as no one is in for him at all. There's lots of agent talk and very little substance.

He's a big fish in a small pond. I don't see how anyone can watch his highlight reel and think he'd score a high % of those goals in England.

He has so much time and space to tee himself up and a lot of the goal keeping is poor.

Absolutely. It's not that the player has to be a sure thing, it's that Ole and his team have to be utterly convinced by their potential to do the job in England. And clearly they looked at Bruno and said "Pass". At which point he gave the ball away.
 
No interest at all, no enquiry, no conversations, nothing.
All the supposed interest was from his agent.
Spurs were the only club to have genuine interest and to have spoken to the club regarding a fee.

Look at this ITK, not only has insight into our own enquiries but also Spurs interests :drool:
 
Look at this ITK, not only has insight into our own enquiries but also Spurs interests :drool:
What do you mean? The only place I saw anything about Manchester United and Bruno was on Reddit, in their group of 'ITKs' and then at the very end, the fallen Di Marzio, saying it was done. So basically looks from a bunch of liers. And nothing else. Fair to say this is another case of the selling club and player trying to drum up a move. Much like the Gaitan stories.
 
I'm fine with us stepping away from this deal for some very important reasons: The club scouted him. Professional football scouts who have watched the player day in and day out and have data to make an actual educated opinion about the player and how well he would do here. Not a single person on the caf does. We can all read statistical data but they are data from the portugese league.

I think of myself as someone who knows a lot about football and players in general, because I am at my heart a stat junkie, I love comparisons and data charts with a fiery passion. I'll look up scouting videos and make an opinion in my comfy chair at home.
From all the analysis you have done, who is the closest version of Pogba in world football? Who is a good or better replacement?
 
There was interest, but because Benfica sold Félix for 120M€, Sporting board decided not to accept offers bellow 70M€.

In the end, pride was the reason for the biz downfall and let's see how much impact will this events take on Bruno Fernandes performances.
 
None of our midfield right now can pass or keep ball how does that make sense at least Bruno can get a goal which only Pogba right now can do for us .
 
I said this since day 1 !!

If Pogba stays Bruno does not join. If Pogba leaves Bruno would be a United place at this very moment. Makes zero sense to have both of them in the midfield.

Hang on, I don’t think that’s right at all. Bruno would play in the Lingard/Pereira role and wouldn’t have any relevance to Pogba.
 
I said this since day 1 !!

If Pogba stays Bruno does not join. If Pogba leaves Bruno would be a United place at this very moment. Makes zero sense to have both of them in the midfield.
He's a #10 isn't he? We're playing Pogba as a deep player this season it seems. Fernandes absolutely does not seem to be that kind of player.
 
He was quite clearly our option if Pogba leaves. Once it became clearer Pogba would stay, we cooled our interest in him and started briefing that we monitored the situation, but nothing was imminent or if we would make a bid.

Him and Pogba would never work. Same with Savic. We had some options in case Pogba left
 
It figures why we lost interest in him. If true, I'm glad we didn't get suckered into the hype and make a panic buy. I have to watch more of him.

It makes me wonder what United's scout report on Ndombele was.
A midfield partnership between Ndombele and Pogba would've been absolutely beautiful to watch.

Anyways, off to the next.
Possession based football? Have they mixed us up with Man City?
 
It figures why we lost interest in him. If true, I'm glad we didn't get suckered into the hype and make a panic buy. I have to watch more of him.

Great decision. So we opt to keep playing Lingard, who is a passing machine and produce the same quantity of goals and assist that Fernandes. Well played United.
 
Great decision. So we opt to keep playing Lingard, who is a passing machine and produce the same quantity of goals and assist that Fernandes. Well played United.

Fernandes had 1 goal in 13 caps for Portugal, Lingard had 4 goals in 24 caps for England.

Not saying Lingard is good, but Fernandes is unproven at highest level.
 
Haha if that passing rumour is true we sound completely stupid. Who in our team except from pogba can pass?
So because we've got shite passers it's ridiculous that we are overlooking players who have poor passing stats? We just let our standards drop?
 
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