Bruno Fernandes False 9

If we were playing Leeds every week sure but against any decent team no. Bruno's back to goal game is poor and he's incredibly lightweight. A false 9 must be able to take the ball into feet in tight spaces when closely marked, Bruno cannot do this.
 
Teja said:
I think his awareness is great in that position actually. Him getting shrugged off the ball when he's deep in our half is a big problem but if he's further forward, he has good enough close control and awareness to trick the defender.

We played him as a false 9 under Ole before with Rashford, Greenwood as the two forwards that cut-in. We were pretty good in those games too. Dunno why we didn't try that more after Pogba came back, we immediately put Pogba LW and Bruno #10.

I'd love it if Rangnick gives it a go again. Has to drop / rest Ronaldo for it to work.
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Even as you say he may be good further up the pitch your team will struggle as a whole. Successfully implemented false 9 teams often play high up the pitch with very calm and technical defense and midfield and high work rate players all over the pitch including false 9.

Under pressure Bruno s passing itself very error prone. I just don't think it will work out for you with the players you currently have in defense,midfield and attack.

Bruno has the knack in arriving late in box and occupy empty space in it to score. That's best attribute he has.If he has time and space he is super assister for your team s attacking play too. I don't think rangnick want to compromise that huge plus for your team with this false 9 concept.
 
Bruno in a false 9? So no Ronaldo? No thanks. But I agree that Bruno shouldn't be in the midfield. I'd much rather see Matic, Fred and Pogba (or Donny next year). I'd play Bruno on the wing with Ronaldo in the 9 and Sancho on the other wing
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Bruno in a false 9? So no Ronaldo? No thanks. But I agree that Bruno shouldn't be in the midfield. I'd much rather see Matic, Fred and Pogba (or Donny next year). I'd play Bruno on the wing with Ronaldo in the 9 and Sancho on the other wing
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You think Ronaldo will be here next season? I hope he is but our chances for top 4 are pretty slim, he wants CL football and trophies. That leaves us with a big hole at CF, I guess Martial can be kept as last resort, but Bruno has shown under Solskjaer that he can play the role well. I'd rather us not have to rely on Martial to be fair, his work rate takes the piss.
 
luke511 said:
You think Ronaldo will be here next season? I hope he is but our chances for top 4 are pretty slim, he wants CL football and trophies. That leaves us with a big hole at CF, I guess Martial can be kept as last resort, but Bruno has shown under Solskjaer that he can play the role well. I'd rather us not have to rely on Martial to be fair, his work rate takes the piss.
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Remember when we played a 4-4-2 diamond with two split strikers? That was basically a 4-3-3 with a false 9 and it was horrible. EIther way, if Ronaldo leaves I'd expect someone else to come in at striker and I'd still want to see Bruno on the wing. He's a fantastic player but I just don't think he's a midfielder. Play him on either wing (him and Sancho can rotate through out the game) and I think he will score and assist even more than he does now. Not to mention whoever is the main striker will get service that they aren't receiving as none of our wingers or FB's seem to know how to cross...
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Remember when we played a 4-4-2 diamond with two split strikers? That was basically a 4-3-3 with a false 9 and it was horrible. EIther way, if Ronaldo leaves I'd expect someone else to come in at striker and I'd still want to see Bruno on the wing. He's a fantastic player but I just don't think he's a midfielder. Play him on either wing (him and Sancho can rotate through out the game) and I think he will score and assist even more than he does now. Not to mention whoever is the main striker will get service that they aren't receiving as none of our wingers or FB's seem to know how to cross...
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We beat RB Leipzig 5-0 using 4-4-2 diamond, it depends on how its deployed by the manager so those accounts can't be used for or against the idea really. Different circumstances and execution under a different manager using different players.
 
luke511 said:
We beat RB Leipzig 5-0 using 4-4-2 diamond, it depends on how its deployed by the manager so it can't be used against the idea really, different circumstances, players, tactics and execution.
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That was never a 5-0 game though, we scored early and were second best for most of the game until a strange, four goal flurry happened at the end when Leipzig stupidly went gung-ho/gave up. The goals were counters against opposition that stood high up the pitch and doesn’t say a single thing about United’s formation on the day.
 
James Peril said:
That was never a 5-0 game though, we scored early and were second best for most of the game until a strange, four goal flurry happened at the end when Leipzig stupidly went gung-ho/gave up. The goals were counters against opposition that stood high up the pitch and doesn’t say a single thing about United’s formation on the day.
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it's irrelevant I know, but the point is it wasn't horrible, we beat them 5-0 still. Just because 4-4-2 diamond went a certain way under Solskjaer doesn't mean Bruno can't be used as a false 9 in a 4-3-3 under Ten Hag.
 
luke511 said:
We beat RB Leipzig 5-0 using 4-4-2 diamond, it depends on how its deployed by the manager so those accounts can't be used for or against the idea really. Different circumstances and execution under a different manager using different players.
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We had one game where it was great. Then it was horrible after that...
 
Does it solve the headache of the midfield? Yes.

Can Fernandes play as a false 9? Not really, no. False 9’s tend to drift backward, and run the channels, holding the ball up, good retention skills, quick short passes. Fernandes is the opposite of that - he wants to play forward and free in space. A relatively lightweight player who massively struggles with dribbling in tight areas cannot play as a false 9.
 
DWelbz19 said:
Does it solve the headache of the midfield? Yes.

Can Fernandes play as a false 9? Not really, no. False 9’s tend to drift backward, and run the channels, holding the ball up, good retention skills, quick short passes. Fernandes is the opposite of that - he wants to play forward and free in space. A relatively lightweight player who massively struggles with dribbling in tight areas cannot play as a false 9.
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The same can be said in the no.10 role, he does alright though. I don't think he struggles with tight areas. Losing possession from his sloppy passing is his biggest problem, and putting him as the false 9 might help with that, maybe.. Probably not.
 
luke511 said:
The same can be said in the no.10 role, he does alright though. I don't think he struggles with tight areas. Losing possession from his sloppy passing is his biggest problem, and putting him as the false 9 might help with that, maybe.. Probably not.
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The massive difference with the no.10 role is you have someone ahead of you who is the main focus of the two CBs. Also, his inability to dribble is still an issue in the no.10 role. Check his dribbling stats - he rarely tries to dribble, he’s rarely ever successful, and he rarely ever carries the ball progressively. It’s definitely the weakest element to his game.
 
sparx99 said:
Yeah, I get that. I just mean top sides of old. Chelsea under Mourinho the 1st time or Simeone's Atletico. Defensively sound teams who could use a maverick no10 to be creative. I'm just trying to hypothesize how he could be effective for a top tier team.
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He can play in such a team as you say. A defensive team that is counter attacking. That was his best at United. if we want to play a pressing team that wants to keep possession he is not going to be able to play. His first touch is not that good. His passing could be erratic and he is fairly weak but unlike Mata is not that weak or slow. He can run a lot. I would say that if we have to accommodate him, then a diamond would be the best. Not in midfield but as the second striker with the freedom to roam around. But where does that leave Sancho?
 
DWelbz19 said:
The massive difference with the no.10 role is you have someone ahead of you who is the main focus of the two CBs. Also, his inability to dribble is still an issue in the no.10 role. Check his dribbling stats - he rarely tries to dribble, he’s rarely ever successful, and he rarely ever carries the ball progressively. It’s definitely the weakest element to his game.
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Fair dos, don't disagree there. My logic behind playing him as a false 9 is it potentially solves more problems than it creates next season, but I could be way off.
 
Rajiztar said:
Even as you say he may be good further up the pitch your team will struggle as a whole. Successfully implemented false 9 teams often play high up the pitch with very calm and technical defense and midfield and high work rate players all over the pitch including false 9.
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I think what you described is generally the standard any modern team aspires so /shrugs.

I don't think Wijnaldum, Henderson and Fabinho are especially technical and they were able to play it. We already are quite high up the pitch in attack and the focus shift towards being more technical under someone like Ten Hag.

Messi played false 9 for Barca, so I wouldn't say you need work rate from every single player in the system either. And do we really lack the work rate? We will play Sancho, Bruno, Elanga (new RW) + Fred, McT (new CM), DM next season. In my view that's a pretty energetic side.

I think the need to fit Ronaldo into the team at CF is a bigger driver than anything else in my view. If Ronaldo wasn't here and you-know-who was still around I think Rangnick would've given it a shot already.

Rajiztar said:
Under pressure Bruno s passing itself very error prone. I just don't think it will work out for you with the players you currently have in defense,midfield and attack.
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It's sort of true but I stick to my original statement. He has enough trickery to hold on to a ball and play the simple pass in counter attacking situations.

Awareness of what's going on around you is the most important thing for a false 9, so he will do fine. He already does quite well in tight spaces in forward areas. Give him the ball when he's in the hole (marked or not) with someone like Rashford making a quick run and he can find the outside of the foot pass to play him in.

Overall, granted that this is the biggest-if. If he receives the ball with back to goal, CB breathing down his neck, it's unclear if he can do a good job.

Rajiztar said:
Bruno has the knack in arriving late in box and occupy empty space in it to score. That's best attribute he has.If he has time and space he is super assister for your team s attacking play too. I don't think rangnick want to compromise that huge plus for your team with this false 9 concept.
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Isn't that the primary thing a false 9 does too? You won't have him sniffing around in the box all the time, he'll still be receiving the ball between the lines in attack and either looking to play runners in or play it out wide and arrive in the box at the right time.
 
Tavern in the town said:
Yes, I just said Firmino is as good as Messi and Totti. That’s exactly what I said in my post. I must applaud your reading comprehension.
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Out of interest when was your last trip to your local opticians??

As you really need to book another appointment pronto, as there is obviously something very wrong with your eyesight.

I do hope that you get it sorted, so that you don't missed Firmino for a player of such high calibre, because he really isn't.
 
MUW4Eva said:
Out of interest when was your last trip to your local opticians??

As you really need to book another appointment pronto, as there is obviously something very wrong with your eyesight.

I do hope that you get it sorted, so that you don't missed Firmino for a player of such high calibre, because he really isn't.
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I don’t like to insult people on the internet but it’s clear to me you’re an absolute buffoon. I was naming players who have successfully played false 9 and you’ve taken offence to me including Firmino, a player who has successfully played false 9. Have a lie down.
 
Tavern in the town said:
I don’t like to insult people on the internet but it’s clear to me you’re an absolute buffoon. I was naming players who have successfully played false 9 and you’ve taken offence to me including Firmino, a player who has successfully played false 9. Have a lie down.
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You said he was one of the best of all time, if you had said he was an okay one, or someone who has played the role this season, then fair enough, but to put him on such a high pedestal, come on now.

You included him alongside to masters of the game, two others that rightly so will go down in history as two of the very best to not only play this role, but in general.

Firmino on the other hand, well, he is just about okay, he doesn't score all that often, & doesn't assist too many goals either, so not sure why you have put him in the same sentence as the other two, hence my previous question.
 
MUW4Eva said:
You said he was one of the best of all time, if you had said he was an okay one, or someone who has played the role this season, then fair enough, but to put him on such a high pedestal, come on now.

You included him alongside to masters of the game, two others that rightly so will go down in history as two of the very best to not only play this role, but in general.

Firmino on the other hand, well, he is just about okay, he doesn't score all that often, & doesn't assist too many goals either, so not sure why you have put him in the same sentence as the other two, hence my previous question.
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He was being sarcastic.
 
El Jefe said:
If we were playing Leeds every week sure but against any decent team no. Bruno's back to goal game is poor and he's incredibly lightweight. A false 9 must be able to take the ball into feet in tight spaces when closely marked, Bruno cannot do this.
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I agree, basically.

It's not just about movement. It's also - crucially - about being able to (consistently) control the ball in tight situations.

Bruno is a high-risk/high-reward type of player. A genuine false nine is a proper playmaker (in addition to being a goal scorer). Bruno isn't a playmaker - he's a hybrid of some kind.
 
Looking at the line up, it seems like he could be playing as a false 9 today. Hopefully it's 4-3-3 and not 4-2-2-2.
 
Vidyoyo said:
It doesn't work Jim
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Yeah not in this side. In a perfect functional team it might have a chance, but the midfield and full backs are too poor at the moment. It seems like Rangnick hasn't got much experience using 4-3-3 and it shows.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Play Bruno on the wing. He's not a midfielder and definitely not a false 9. Bruno on one side and Sancho on the other with Ronaldo feeding off both. Then we can have Matic playing in the #6, Fred in the #8 and at this point I'd give Hanibal a run in the other #8 as I'm done with Pogba just as he is done with us. McTominay can still rotate in, just not as a DM. We are out of all comps so Matic should be able to start every game
 
No.

Let's not spend the next 5 years doing what we did with Pogba. Playing him anywhere there's a gap in the team just to have him on the pitch.

Allow Ten Hag to try and instill a bit of intelligence into his game, and play him in midfield or in the number 10 role. If he can't get to grips with it, I'd rather we sell him (bad timing with the new contract of course) than play him in ridiculous positions.
 
Hope we can put this one to bed now. We’ve tried it a few times and we look utterly impotent.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Play Bruno on the wing. He's not a midfielder and definitely not a false 9. Bruno on one side and Sancho on the other with Ronaldo feeding off both. Then we can have Matic playing in the #6, Fred in the #8 and at this point I'd give Hanibal a run in the other #8 as I'm done with Pogba just as he is done with us. McTominay can still rotate in, just not as a DM. We are out of all comps so Matic should be able to start every game
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I think Ole tried Bruno on the wing but he started drifting inside to middle allowing opposition to use the space he left.
 
It's a terrible idea for the simple reason that we as a team rely on a centre forward that scores goals. When we step away from that formula, things can only get worse.

Think about it, we don't have the possession play, we don't have a structured way of playing, we don't have an ability to control football matches. Manchester City, Liverpool and peak Barca had/have these things. They could play someone from the crowd up front and the rest of the team would still look competent because they have such an ingrained and successful way of playing.

All we are doing is removing a goal scoring player, tinkering with a player that is productive to unknown outcomes and removing any kind of focal point. You still have the same mess in behind.
 
If you missed 2 golden chances in front of goal, you have no right to be #9. And I haven't count his goal performance against Watford.
 
I've said it on this thread and on several others as well. Bruno should be on the wing. He has been brutal lately and he is finally having a good game today and guess what position he's playing? On the wing. The very same position most of the "experts" on TheCaf said he couldn't play
 
SadlerMUFC said:
I've said it on this thread and on several others as well. Bruno should be on the wing. He has been brutal lately and he is finally having a good game today and guess what position he's playing? On the wing. The very same position most of the "experts" on TheCaf said he couldn't play
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I’ve said the same in another thread. It would mean we can play a stronger midfield.
 
TheGame said:
I’ve said the same in another thread. It would mean we can play a stronger midfield.
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Exactly. Bruno isn't a midfielder. But he was great today. We should be playing a 4-3-3 and Bruno isn't suited for that in midfield. Put him on the wing though and we can see games like today. No just imagine that it's him on one wing and Sancho on the other (no offense to Elanga)...
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Exactly. Bruno isn't a midfielder. But he was great today. We should be playing a 4-3-3 and Bruno isn't suited for that in midfield. Put him on the wing though and we can see games like today. No just imagine that it's him on one wing and Sancho on the other (no offense to Elanga)...
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I'm imagining it and I'm not that enthralled by the idea. Okay against a Brentford with nothing to play for and basically just having a kick around but in an intense game I think Sancho, Bruno out wide lacks quite a bit of pace and they're both always looking to drop off and get the ball. Would certainly need the right striker to make it happen otherwise I just see that as a lot of huff and puff and not much happening. You need at least one or two across the front that are going to break lines.
 
SadlerMUFC said:
Exactly. Bruno isn't a midfielder. But he was great today. We should be playing a 4-3-3 and Bruno isn't suited for that in midfield. Put him on the wing though and we can see games like today. No just imagine that it's him on one wing and Sancho on the other (no offense to Elanga)...
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No he wasn't. He gave the ball away and kept on back passing and missed a sitter like he always does.
 
UnofficialDevil said:
No he wasn't. He gave the ball away and kept on back passing and missed a sitter like he always does.
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But when he gave the ball away it wasn't in stupid areas like it is when he's in midfield. Yes, there was the one stupid back pass lob thing in the second half that he miskicked, but if you are really going to try and tell me that he didn't look way better on the wing today than he has in the midfield, then you are just too proud to admit that perhaps you were wrong
 
Abraxas said:
I'm imagining it and I'm not that enthralled by the idea. Okay against a Brentford with nothing to play for and basically just having a kick around but in an intense game I think Sancho, Bruno out wide lacks quite a bit of pace and they're both always looking to drop off and get the ball. Would certainly need the right striker to make it happen.
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Pace isn't everything in football. What you need is good movement. Unless you want us to play the same way we have been in the past and depend on individual brilliance. Then sure, pace is great. But tell me....do City depend on pace to score goals? Do Liverpool? Do any of the great teams depend on pace or is it great off the ball movement and smart football?
 
SadlerMUFC said:
But when he gave the ball away it wasn't in stupid areas like it is when he's in midfield. Yes, there was the one stupid back pass lob thing in the second half that he miskicked, but if you are really going to try and tell me that he didn't look way better on the wing today than he has in the midfield, then you are just too proud to admit that perhaps you were wrong
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He was a bit better, but nowhere near enough to be our main winger next season. No way. Many mistakes again today against a very average team. Plus he cant dribble to save his life. No not on the wing please.
 
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