British + Irish Draft (Gio vs crappy) Group A

[crappycraperson]

Sure I do - sure.

I try to keep an open mind, as they say - about all sorts of players from all sorts of eras. Classy comment, that - you're coming across as a paragon of magnanimity here, I must say.

I did not mean it in a nasty way so no need to get touchy about it, was said in a lighter tone, sorry if it comes across otherwise. But yes, you tend to overrate vintage players compared to modern ones. So I am not surprised that you are arguing Gio's case.

 

[antohan]

There's not a lot of point in doing an all-time draft if we aren't going to fairly recognise the pre-TV era boys. It's not as if we're inundated with them in any case, a sprinkling of the finest in the first half of the century - hell you've got one of your own in Patsy.

In fairness, you've sold your oldies better. AFAIC all I think about when I see his right winger is Patsy Kensit, thanks for that whoever that joker was (Chester?).

 

[crappycraperson]

There's not a lot of point in doing an all-time draft if we aren't going to fairly recognise the pre-TV era boys. It's not as if we're inundated with them in any case, a sprinkling of the finest in the first half of the century - hell you've got one of your own in Patsy.

I am not saying we don't recognize these players. But like someone mentioned, everyone's write up has about 5-6 players who were some kind of best ever but yet we never saw them in any kind of draft before. And saying that Morton may e on the same level or slight worse off than Bale is not disparaging in anyway. I am certain then when it all said and done, Bale would go down as top 10 British winger of all time.

 

[Gio]

Regardless of the fact he got into NT ahead of Hansen, I doubt anyone would have Miller ahead of Hansen. Look at someone like Redondo, he got not much love at NT level as well, does not say anything about his quality.

Plenty in Scotland would. I wouldn't, but can recognise that they were both top drawer and it's a crying shame for us that they didn't gel as a partnership.

All great number 10s have a decent goal scoring record and nothing as bad as the ratio of 1 in 10. Zidane has a record of 1 in 5, Platini 1 in 2, Riquelme at his peak around 1 in 4/5. I see no evidence to suggest that James is someone who is going to decide this match in anyway.

James is likely to decide the match because:

• He's one of the best playmakers in the draft and has little to no defensive resistance to running the game. Peters is an attacking midfielder who will work back valiantly, while Baxter won't bother his arse.
• He's feeding an attack that will thrive off the service. Tom Finney, Jimmy Greaves and Alan Morton are all excellent finishers off either foot.

In fairness, you've sold your oldies better. AFAIC all I think about when I see his right winger is Patsy Kensit, thanks for that whoever that joker was (Chester?).

You have to. The Scholes/Keane vote thread is evidence of the need to do so IMO.

 

[crappycraperson]

I must say these tight games are too nerve wracking. You never know when one wrong slip up will see you drown.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

I did not mean it in a nasty way so no need to get touchy about it, was said in a lighter tone, sorry if it comes across otherwise. But yes, you tend to overrate vintage players compared to modern ones. So I am not surprised that you are arguing Gio's case.

Well, it did come across as otherwise - you haven't exactly given the impression of being in a festive mood here. But nevermind, I'm not in tears about it.

Anyway, "vintage players" isn't some sort of homogenous group it's possible to rate, as a group. No more than "contemporary players". I'm sure I overrate certain players - we all do. But it's not based on what year they were born in, I can tell you that much.

 

[crappycraperson]

Well, it did come across as otherwise - you haven't exactly given the impression of being in a festive mood here. But nevermind, I'm not in tears about it.

Anyway, "vintage players" isn't some sort of homogenous group it's possible to rate, as a group. No more than "contemporary players". I'm sure I overrate certain players - we all do. But it's not based on what year they were born in, I can tell you that much.

Fair enough. I am up against someone, who along with Anto and Balu is one of the toughest match ups in these drafts so forgive me if I am trying to fight every corner.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Fair enough. I am up against someone, who along with Anto and Balu is one of the toughest match ups in these drafts so forgive me if I am trying to fight every corner.

Alright, no problem - that's understandable. And I was too bitchy there, I'll admit that - long, grueling week, too much coffee, too little booze.

I'll lighten up after a nap and a beer, I reckon.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

In fairness, you've sold your oldies better. AFAIC all I think about when I see his right winger is Patsy Kensit, thanks for that whoever that joker was (Chester?).

Guilty as charged. Reckon she'd be of more use on the wing than her ex-hubby (or whatever he was), the so-called singer (or whatever he was).

 

[Gio]

This will probably win me no votes but I simply don't buy that someone like Morton was any better than Bale. The latter has performed as well as any one for Spurs in his last 2 seasons and Madrid in his debut one, scoring so many critical goals and carrying a team like Spurs. It is just the romanticism that certain people/posters have with older/unknown players that leds to them being overrated. Not to mention the fact that flaws of modern players are mercilessly exposed by every single match being there on record.

But you need to justify why Morton isn't one of the finest wingers out there. I'm not buying that he's getting romanticised because he was from the olden days, we've barely talked about him. What others have said about Morton is below. But fundamentally he was more of a wing wizard than what Phil Neal may typically have faced in his day given the lack of top wingers in that era and commonality of 4-4-2 with hard-working wide midfielders or the 4-2-2-2 that came into vogue during his time.

Douglas Lamming was a football historian from Yorkshire - not a Scot with an agenda like me - who wrote various annals on British football history. In one of them he published in 1986, he proclaimed Morton as the greatest British left winger of all time.

He was in a class all by himself. He would never beat his full-back in the same way twice, for he had so many tricks. Despite playing on the left wing, Morton's right foot was the stronger one, though the truth is he was two footed and perfectly balanced. But the power he had in his right foot meant he could as easily cut inside and shoot or slip the ball into me, as he could go down the wing and cross into the penalty box.

THE portrait of Morton which stands as the top of the marble staircase in the Ibrox Main Stand is a testament to the esteem in which he is held.

The winger was legendary manager Bill Struth's first signing for the club in 1920 and what an acquisition he turned out to be.

Despite a lack of stature - he was only 5' 4" tall - the former Queen's Park man was one of the most devastating Rangers players of all time.

Using his speed, control and balance to bemuse defenders, Morton consistently supplied his forwards with the service needed to fire the Gers' goals.

In his 13 years as a player with Rangers, the club won ten championships and two Scottish Cups and his 115 goals (and countless 'assists') from 495 matches were a huge factor in the team's success.

Morton was also a superb servant to Scotland and earned the nickname 'The Wee Blue Devil' after an exceptional display against England at Wembley in 1928.

In all he played eleven times against the 'Auld Enemy' as part of his 31-cap international total.

 

[Gio]

Good game Crappy. Keeps it alive for you and Stobz now.

 

[crappycraperson]

Good game Crappy. Keeps it alive for you and Stobz now.

I am not sure what to do if even that one is a draw

 

[Annahnomoss]

Voted for Gio. Alex James tipped the scale for me who I think is just two levels above how good Rooney is as an attacking midfielder - in terms of being a third midfielder/playmaker. Never rated Rooney as an attacking midfielder, he's light-years behind the best attacking midfielders of his generation even - and his peaks has came as a second striker/lone striker - and in that supportive grafty role of 06-09.

 

[antohan]

Group of death this is.

@Gio, I didn't mean you had oversold your chaps, very much the opposite, that you did a good job and that was the issue somehow. I'm pretty much of the opinion you have the best front four out of the three but you probably haven't sold the midfielders and defence well enough. Well, not the defence, it's fine, just... err... there. But the midfielders... I couldn't vote on the argument of Crappy's midfield being wrong if the other was a completely unknown quantity for me.

Squeaky-bum time.

 

[antohan]

Voted for Gio. Alex James tipped the scale for me who I think is just two levels above how good Rooney is as an attacking midfielder - in terms of being a third midfielder/playmaker. Never rated Rooney as an attacking midfielder, he's light-years behind the best attacking midfielders of his generation even - and his peaks has came as a second striker/lone striker - and in that supportive grafty role of 06-09.

Interesting, I actually felt a Rooney surging run into the box or from the edge of the box was the only way crappy even remotely had a chance of scoring. Maybe Bale, maybe, sort of the same thing as well, random goal out of nowhere.