Brazilian to Old Trafford

skivandam

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Apparantly...

<a href="http://www.planetfootball.com/article.asp?id=98167&clid=&cpid=4&Title=United+renew+Carlos+interest" target="_blank">http://www.planetfootball.com/article.asp?id=98167&clid=&cpid=4&Title=United+renew+Carlos+interest</a>

where locked in talks to sign Carlos. Real are after 40million but thats out of our price range? If this happens we would fund the deal with a possible swap involving Seba Veron. It also states where after Ronaldinho.

Its probably bollox
 
Don't want Carlos... never liked him, don't rate him, and he's 29, one has to wonder how long he'll remain "speedy".
 
Originally posted by Kevin:
<strong>Don't want Carlos... never liked him, don't rate him, and he's 29, one has to wonder how long he'll remain "speedy".</strong><hr></blockquote>

Hes a feckin brilliant player, everything he does he does perfect. He even fouls perfectly and makes it look innocent.
Ive never seen a player run rings around him, hes allways had the Beckham in his pocket.
I wouldnt pay 40 mill for a fullback though. Not when you could get the next best thing in Steve Finnan for 1/4 or that price.
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Rate Carr higher than Finnan.Dunno why.Maybe because i relate the name Finnan to pimple in swedish??
 
I hat ethe way topics keep being repeated. There are other threads like this one isnt there? Same with Rio sheesh!

Any Carlos is not that good defensively. Silvestre is better. Carlos is just great going forward and has a great engine/speed. But Silvestre is good going forward also, gets plenty of assists etc, is always up and down, and is ok at defending.

Why do we need Carlos? I reckon he would be more wasteful than anything, missed freekicks and set pieces, overhit passes or inaccurate balls etc. He is no Beckham in terms of delivery.

Alot of money too for a 29 yr old. I dont know if I buy this one.
 
I seem to remember not so long ago that Martin Edwards said we wouldn't be buying Rivaldo because of his age - the same applies to Carlos.
 
Originally posted by -Rob-:
<strong>I seem to remember not so long ago that Martin Edwards said we wouldn't be buying Rivaldo because of his age - the same applies to Carlos.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agreed. Besides, the whole article doesn't sound very optimistic, does it? 'United offered 20m, Real want 40m'. Err, how do you bridge that?

On the subject of Brazilians, I was very impressed with Ronaldinho today. Great vision and he was actually running Brazil's match rather than Rivaldo. Some terrific through balls as well. He's much more clever than I thought.
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We are talking about Roberto Carlos? The old Brazilian who, like Silvestre, is great coming forward but a bit suspect defending? If so I doubt we would pay over 10/15 million given his age. And I don't want him at all because he is too old for that kind of dosh.
 
Originally posted by Amir:
<strong>

On the subject of Brazilians, I was very impressed with Ronaldinho today. Great vision and he was actually running Brazil's match rather than Rivaldo. Some terrific through balls as well. He's much more clever than I thought.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have to agree that Ronalinho is the kind of player we could use. He is a real creater of goals, who can run at people. Presumably what FErgie was hoping JSV would add to the team. PSG are much more of a selling club than AC Milan or Barca.

Rivaldo is not really a team player, and at 30 I think he is unlikely to come to United for a huge fee. Ronaldinho on the other hand is 23.
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If Carlos is so bad at defending then why does he mark Beckham out of every match they play in

example:
Brazil vs england Beckham did feck all

I agree that 40million pound is ludcaris but to critisise him is also ludacris. You dont see a crap player playing international football on a constent level well accept Hesky.If he is so crap why does he play for real Madrid? and to think that silvestre is better is nonesense. Silverstre, yes hes quick,athletic and great going forward, but hes dodgey as hell and his runs going forward do by no means make up for his lake luster displays at the back. Now i am not saying we should sign him but if he was available at a reasonable fee then YES i would.

As for ronaldinio whos to say that he wont be another HUGE flop like seba?
 
Originally posted by skivandam:
<strong> As for ronaldinio whos to say that he wont be another HUGE flop like seba?</strong><hr></blockquote>

By that logic we should never spend a significant amount of money on foreigners again, out of fear that they may flop. That too is would not make sense imo. You have to take a measured risk on your investment. Most of the time they work out, sometimes they don't - it doesn't mean you stop trying though.
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Originally posted by skivandam:
<strong>If Carlos is so bad at defending then why does he mark Beckham out of every match they play in

example:
Brazil vs england Beckham did feck all</strong><hr></blockquote>

Bad example. Yeah Becks is a great crosser, but to a defender he isn't exactly a Ryan Giggs or a Ronaldo now is he?
Sure he did a nice job in shutting becks' passes down, but the fact that Beckham was never 100% in this WC is also a factor. He was nowhere near the form he showed towards the end of the season, before the injury.
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Becks never skins a LB, nevermind one of the fastest LBs in the world! Carlos just closes him down early enough to stop him crossing.

Carlos main strength is his attacking and thats the best form of defense, it made Beckham have to pull back and defend where he cant cause damage. However it doesnt work for 90 minutes and the opposition WILL attack and thats when Carlos MIGHT come unstuck. Against Germany he got beat quite a few times and at others his marking and positional play was appaling. Dont know what he was doing.

Carlos is great, but I think we can replace Silvestre for half that amount with a very capable YOUNG player who can do that job just fine. In a critical season where we need to strengthen big time, I cant see us blowing £20m on a 29yr old luxury we dont need.
 
Originally posted by ShAoLiN_ChRoNiC:
<strong>

Carlos is great, but I think we can replace Silvestre for half that amount with a very capable YOUNG player who can do that job just fine. In a critical season where we need to strengthen big time, I cant see us blowing £20m on a 29yr old luxury we dont need.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What do you mean "big time"? Wasn't it you who mentioned in a previous post that we only needed some minor adjustments to the squad?
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Originally posted by MrMarcello:
<strong>Why buy Carlos when United could just buy Bridge?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agreed Carlos is in no doubt the best full back their is but you could get a player very close to him for a fraction of that price, Finnan for example would be perfect, Fergies type of player too.
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Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

Agreed Carlos is in no doubt the best full back their is but you could get a player very close to him for a fraction of that price, Finnan for example would be perfect, Fergies type of player too.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What is a "fergie type" of player?
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Roberto Carlos is a great LB. Best LB in the world? I think so.

But he's 29 and won't be getting any better. I believe Silvestre will be as good, if not better, as RC in only three or four years. Should Silvestre leave there are still a few good LB's available for a better price and who are much younger than RC.

Buying RC might be good short term but it won't be good long term. The money we spend on him we'll never see again. And for £40M? Please... Still overpriced at £20M IMO.
 
Originally posted by osterdal:
<strong>Roberto Carlos is a great LB. Best LB in the world? I think so.

But he's 29 and won't be getting any better. I believe Silvestre will be as good, if not better, as RC in only three or four years. Should Silvestre leave there are still a few good LB's available for a better price and who are much younger than RC.

Buying RC might be good short term but it won't be good long term. The money we spend on him we'll never see again. And for £40M? Please... Still overpriced at £20M IMO.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I find myself involuntarily nodding in agreement.

:D
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Originally posted by lchk:
<strong>What is a "fergie type" of player?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Someone you can rely on and who will play football with sense. Dennis Irwin is a good example, Fergie is fond of the Irish mentality.
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Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

Someone you can rely on and who will play football with sense. Dennis Irwin is a good example, Fergie is fond of the Irish mentality.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, if you look at all the good things that Fergie had to say about RC and the fact that we tried to sign the French Version of him in Lizarazu (ie stocky, pacy, attacking, thunder thighs) then you will see that it is no longer an Irwin-type player he is looking for but rather a flair-type of player.

If Silvestre keeps improving and shuts his mouth to the press, I have no problems believing that he can be that "Fergie type of player".
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Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

Fergie is fond of the Irish mentality.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What evidence do you have for this?

He's more fond of the French mentality going from the number of French players he has compared to Irish.
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Originally posted by Travis Bickle:
<strong>

What evidence do you have for this?

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Murt is fiercely Irish. No more evidence required as far as he's concerned.
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Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

Someone you can rely on and who will play football with sense. Dennis Irwin is a good example, Fergie is fond of the Irish mentality.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Judging by what you said,

Are all Irish players reliable?

How do you know Fergie is fond of this "Irish mentality"?
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He much prefers the Irish attitude to that of the English..and thinks they're better players and have a better International team...

That is clear for all to behold..
 
I think Carlos would be a great addition actually. He's the best LB in my opinion and plays our type of game. Forget free kicks - he can have 1 in 5 or something. He's 29 with I'd say a good 4-5 years left in him. Thing is does he want to play for this much longer? I've read him quoted in the past as saying he'd be happy to return to Brazil towards the end of his career and that Madrid would be it for him in Europe. I seem to remember him hinting that this would be a return he'd make sooner rather than later. If he's changed his mind then I'm all for him at OT. I have to agree with those who think 20m is too much though. He's miles better than Silvestre though and frankly he would be a great signing at the right price.
 
Originally posted by Davo:
<strong>He much prefers the Irish attitude to that of the English..and thinks they're better players and have a better International team...

That is clear for all to behold..</strong><hr></blockquote>

Any explanations, Murt?
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Alex Ferguson's two most loyal players in his time @ Man Utd have been Keane & Irwin.
Irwin was 1st choice right/ left back for over 10 yrs. He wouldnt have been if Fergie didnt like his mentality and style, has their been a more reliable full back in England over the last 15 yrs?

Roy Keane as we all know is Fergies love child, dont tell me Fergie doesnt love everything about him.

The point with Finnan is that hes a similar player to Irwin, quiet, professional, consistent. Look at the way he stuck away his penalty in thew world cup when the other "amateurs" were struggling to hit the ball. Fergie would obviously like to have Irwin for another 10 yrs, Finnan is a carbon copy.
 
Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

The point with Finnan is that hes a similar player to Irwin, quiet, professional, consistent. .</strong><hr></blockquote>

and more importantly Irish..

Cos he likes Irish players best doesn't he?

Good mentality..
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Yeah, come on Murt, you're going a bit overoard, just a bit mind, with the Irish trip now.
 
Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>Yeah, come on Murt, you're going a bit overoard, just a bit mind, with the Irish trip now.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I reckon Fergies favourite (on & off the pitch)players in his reign have been in (no order)

Cantona
Giggs
Irwin
Keane
Schmeichel

Robson, Hughes, McLair + a few more would have a case but thats not far wrong either way.
2 of the above are Irish and Fergie allways made a point of their consistency & reliability. I reckon hed like a bit more of that.
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Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>

I reckon Fergies favourite (on & off the pitch)players in his reign have been in (no order)

Cantona
Giggs
Irwin
Keane
Schmeichel

Robson, Hughes, McLair + a few more would have a case but thats not far wrong either way.
2 of the above are Irish and Fergie allways made a point of their consistency & reliability. I reckon hed like a bit more of that.</strong><hr></blockquote>


So, because two players on Murt's list are Irish, Fergie likes the Oirish mentality.

You could have stuck Cole and G Neville on that list and concluded it was English. Or Hughes and concluded it was Welsh.

Maybe he'd like the Brazilian mentality. That'd be world cup winners.
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Originally posted by Travis Bickle:
<strong>So, because two players on Murt's list are Irish, Fergie likes the Oirish mentality.
You could have stuck Cole and G Neville on that list and concluded it was English. Or Hughes and concluded it was Welsh.
Maybe he'd like the Brazilian mentality. That'd be world cup winners.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Would you not include Irwin & Keane among Fergies 5 favourite players under his reign?
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Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>
Would you not include Irwin & Keane among Fergies 5 favourite players under his reign?</strong><hr></blockquote>

If I may interject, I'm not sure that was his point Murt.
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Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>If I may interject, I'm not sure that was his point Murt.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Im getting there, hes saying you could put Cole & Neville on that list and call it english.
They'd be on the list if i thought their were Fergies favourites.
Im not saying all Irish players are Keane/ Irwin standard. If so id be saying that we should go for Ian Harte! In full backs i reckon Fergie goes for reliability. Thats why he doesnt trust Micke 100% hence him spending half of last season on the bench behind Irwin. Carlos is also an ultra reliable fullback, more flamboyant than Dinny as hes Brazilian, not a cork man with a "grand tan on both legs".
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If we ask 10 of the best managers (ie. Fergie, Lippi, Hitzfeld, Capello etc), who they want as their left back in their best 11s, I'm sure Roberto Carlos name will be in atleast 5 out of 10 teams. I'm sure 5 years ago it would have been Maldini, but now it must be Carlos. But yeah, at 40 mill., Fergie must be near his retirement if he does go for it. To me, no more than 18 mill. and the acquisition would be brilliant. Just a thought, what if we end up buying just 3 world class defenders and nothing else, ie. Carlos, Thuram, and either a Rio or Nesta with Veron leaving. I don't think that would be so bad, 40 million well spent. We already have the very best midfielders, may be just a little light up front with out the 4th striker, but we will be a rock solid team. Ok may be we can sell Yorke and buy a one year wonder like Di Canio to cover...
 
Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>
Would you not include Irwin & Keane among Fergies 5 favourite players under his reign?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I've no idea, Murt, who Fergies favorite players are. Your guesses seem pretty good. (McLair was surely one of Fergie's faves, because he would be picked ahead of the far more talented Mark Hughes. LIkewise Cole ahead of Ole).

But for sure Fergies favorites are quality players, who are winners. Carlos is that. The only players in the Irish squad who are world class seem to be Robbie Keane and Carr (if fit).
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