Kalvin Phillips is a number 6, plays similar to Carrick. Soumare, is a defensive box to box number 8 and slightly quick more similar to Fred than Mctominay.
Boubakary Soumaré
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I really like Soumare, but I think if Ole is still here, it will be Grealish or Maddison brought in for midfield.
A winger ( Sancho) and a forward (Dembele) will be the others.
A winger ( Sancho) and a forward (Dembele) will be the others.
We suffered a lot since Scott got injured and not only that but Fred started playing well too when ever he is next to SMT, this shows how much important a signing like Soumare. I agree that RW and Striker are top priority along with an attacking Midfielder but I really hope we get Soumare in next window.
Soumare/Grealish/Sancho/Werner is a muppet dream. It feels exciting that we are now down to signing 3/4 top players to become a force again hope Board realise this and go for 3/4 top signings in this summer (may not be same players I mentioned here but atleast players in that calibre)
Soumare/Grealish/Sancho/Werner is a muppet dream. It feels exciting that we are now down to signing 3/4 top players to become a force again hope Board realise this and go for 3/4 top signings in this summer (may not be same players I mentioned here but atleast players in that calibre)
Weird, you think it would be in the news if Britain colonised Portugal and Nigeria. Times really have changed.
I watched him a lot and I tend to agree here. Having said this SMT is rapidly developing but at this moment Soumare wins it.
I like to have both Soumare and SMT for us and get rid of Matic/perrera to balance the salary books.
I think we can get him for 50 Mil, Is it too difficult to get this transfer done now (just like Chelsea did with Zyech) so that we can focus on other targets in summer.
Soumare is also only 19 and should develop alot more in the coming seasons.
You’ve went off on a tangent. In fact, you are now making my argument for me by describing how different they are - Soumare is not a better version of Kalvin Phillips.
Phillips is relatively limited but that doesn’t stop someone from being a good player and an asset for any side, in isolation. Phillips is clearly a no.6 yes - a player who springs immediately to mind as being stylistically similar is Wilmar Barrios. Soumare does indeed fit better as a player who could potentially operate as a no.6 or a no.8, or share the responsibility of both roles in a double pivot as our current setup allows. I would group him more with a player like Bakayoko. Of course being silky on the ball is not essential for a top club.
If we really are searching for someone who can both hold or go box to box, and if it were possible, Partey would be a great signing. For also being more of a destructive player, as well as having a similar ability to break lines through his dribbling, Partey’s passing is superior to Soumare’s and is generally excellent (very penetrative).
Of course, Soumare is very young and the Thomas Partey that I see when I’ve managed to watch Atletico in recent seasons is miles ahead of the player he was when he was breaking through. He would provide a great option there immediately.
Fred and McTominay already fit into the no.6/no.8 category of players though. I would think it more beneficial to look for something different, particularly if there are question marks around how much longer Matic and Pogba are going to be part of the squad.
Which is basically what I said. ‘Defensive box to box no.8’ could easily be McTominay.
Apparently he was a panic buy..I guess Bruno is British now
You described Soumare as a gritty #8 when his coaches in France along with French journos have described him as a DM. He's a DM that can play as a #8 which was the point I was trying to make to you. His attributes make him a more rounded player in comparison to McTominay who is a box to box #8. I don't see the comparison apart from both players being tall. Soumare is someone that could play the DM role solo behind two creative #8s due to his physical and athletic capabilities and he can distribute the ball well too as he showed against PSG.
Fred and McTominay would be squad players in a strong Manchester United and it's wisful to think otherwise imo. Soumare as the Matic replacement and someone more creative to replace Pogba if he leaves would be the way forward imo.
Maybe Fred should be sold if the plan is to play a s #6 behind two creative #8s, if McTominay will be the backup/rotation #6? No real need in 3 #6.
I honestly believe a couple of midfielders from the u23s will put paid to McTominay and Fred in the next 12 to 18 months.
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We do have some very talented youngsters but I don’t see McTominay and Fred both being displaced in so short a time frame.
Fred has been solid and McTominay embodies the spirit of never say die. I think displacing both in such a short time frame will be harder than most might think.
You could be right but I have a strong feeling Hannibal Mejbri will be one of the players in line to make a strong push as the creative #8 in 12 months time.
You know, that will also depend on their mentality in the end, not many are like Scott.
Agreed, injuries permitting, there's no way he's not knocking on the first team door in the next 12 months. Too highly thought of here.
You have to account for injuries and tactics. If we sign a DM, be it Soumare or Phillip's who are the most linked, to play one of them behind two creative 8s you still need back up for the #6 and the #8 because you can't start away at Anfield with a single #6 behind Bruno and Grealish for example.
Same here. They would be wonderful squad options, the type of quality that big clubs have as squad options. But they wouldn't make the starting 11 of any side competing for major honours, on a regular basis.
But Mctominay is tough and tall, whereas Soumare and Fred are quite weak in terms of body strength but their both faster and can get past a player better than Mctominay.
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Anything to back up that claim? Because from what I've seen from him, that's not remotely true at the moment. He might turn out to be a better player, but currently McTominay is the better player.
He's 20, about to turn 21 in 9 days.
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Better physically, athletically and technically and is also adept at playing a number of positions. Also comfortably better at actually passing a ball.
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He may look physically strong, but he isn't better in that regard than McTominay at this moment in time. McTominay wins more aerial duels, wins more tackles and has more interceptions by quite a margin, while he is also as creative and has similar amount of key passes. McTominay also completes more long passes than Soumare. Soumare may be a better passer, but he isn't actually dictating games with his passing consistently yet.
McTominay's passing is below 80% in the league and for a big club that is quite simply not good enough IMO.
And Soumare is nowhere near ready for us yet. It goes both ways. I was sceptical of McTominay from the start, but he has definitely shown improvement this season. If he becomes a player like Fletcher then I'll be happy, but to claim confidently that Soumare is the better player already, is not based on what has happened this season. They are different types of players, but McTominay is better as a ball-winning aggressive type of midfielder than Soumare is at being a passing midfielder that dictates the game like Carrick did.
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Soumare is a DM that can play as a box to box midfielder and provides metal in midfield and is also a very aggressive type and has played the #6 role against top European opposition at a very good level. He's also comfortably better at breaking lines in comparison and is noticeably better in tight spaces. And for me, passing is very important for a midfielder that is deployed as a ball winner and McTominay has been underwhelming in that regard which would negate his other good qualities against top European opposition.
Soumare for me is better at the fundamentals of playing the deeper role in midfield which includes passing.
I know very little about Soumare but how does his attributes stack up against someone like Thomas Partey? He's developed into a fine DM for Atletico, I'd love us to sign someone in that mould. As in a pure #6.
A gritty #8, yes. Box to box. Defensive, destructive, combative, or ball-winning midfielder. All are terms I would use to describe him. Meaning can get a bit lost sometimes with all the terms banded about - Vidal was often described as a defensive midfielder even when he was operating from a no.10 position. From what I’ve seen, Soumare’s most suitable role is/was the ideal one for Kante, Vieira, Davids or Essien. All of them often are/ were termed ‘DMs’ but are/ were not best as holding midfielders.
For me, Soumare’s attitude towards defending and interpretation of his defensive responsibilities in the double pivot that I’ve seen him operating in are very similar to those of Fred and McTominay for United. He concerns himself more with what is in front of him (as opposed to behind him) and wants to engage.
In comparison, Phillips is a more natural anchor - he is more positionally disciplined, more aware of potential threats and therefore anticipates and reacts to developing danger more quickly. More diligent and calculating - generally just a more intelligent defender.
Soumare is a supreme athlete and a willing worker so I’m sure he can certainly do a job as a sole sitting midfielder, with the ability to cover ground as quickly as he does. I’m sure McTominay could also play as a #6 behind two #8s and not let himself down, with him having similar abilities. It’s not the most suitable role for either though, stifling some of their best qualities and most natural tendencies.
Soumare is tall and a very powerful runner - not at all weak? He is the best and most well-rounded athlete of those three. Both he and McTominay are superior to Fred in taking the ball passed opponents.
Partey is well ahead in his development and is someone that would be bought to produce the goods straight away. Soumare could be moulded in a similar way but I'd personally sign Denis Zakaria from Gladbach who would provide similar qualities to Partey and is younger.
Honestly Adnan, don't take this wrong way, but, I could question how much you've seen of Soumare, because he isn't an aggresive type of midfielder, at all. I mean, you've made this comparison previously, which couldn't be further from what he is at the moment:
He's not like Vidal. He doesn't win the ball back nearly as much, doesn't have a goal-scoring threat, isn't as creative as Vidal, while he is good at dribbling, which is not something Vidal was ever good at. Soumare has been good in the CL, but he hasn't been near that level consistently in the league.
I agree that passing is important and that McTominay needs to improve there, but to expect Soumare to come in and dictate games for us, would be unfair on the young player. And to say that McTominay's passing negates his other good qualities is also quite on harsh on him.
No offense taken mate. I agree he isn't creative and have always maintained he's a DM that can pass the ball to a good level, but I would describe him as being aggressive tbh. Below are the thoughts of French football correspondent Jonathan Johnson.
Jonathan Johnson: "He is surprisingly technical and is a good passer of the ball. He's also physical and gets stuck in, that does result in yellow and red cards from time to time. He is somebody that would add a lot of mettle to a club's midfield, that's why you have these clubs after him. The idea that he is a deep-lying midfielder is not correct. He's more of a defensive midfielder."
His stats for this season are also in the below link for anyone that's interested.
https://www.skysports.com/football/...and-chelsea-want-to-sign-the-lille-midfielder
The below is a scout report which also describes him as a aggressive player in defensive transition.
https://totalfootballanalysis.com/p...019-20-scout-report-tactical-analysis-tactics
When I compared him to Vidal it was more in terms of the player I anticipate he will become. Vidal if I'm not mistaken was 24 when he moved from Leverkusen to Juventus and was much further along in his development. The Lille coach Galtier has gone on record and stated that Soumare is only playing at 40% off his true potential and there's much more to unlock.
I've looked at his stats and I've seen him play, hence why I have pushed back in this thread about him being an aggressive type of midfielder or a ballwinner. I also disagree with Jonathan Johnson's assessment, from what I've seen he looks like a playmaker, just not necessarily a deep-lying one. I'm also not sure what he means with "surprisingly technical".
I'd also be wary of a scouting report regarding is tackling, that is mostly based on 2 examples, one of which is one of his best games this season. I'd rather look at his overall stats and his averages than outliers. Another example, in that skysports article his ball recoveries per 90 mintues are listed, his figure is 6.5 there. Here are two other players, who recently impressed and have much higher figures:
For what it's worth, Sangare hasn't been as good as he's been last year, but it's just an example of an actual ballwinner.
To be honest I'd be surprised, if he turns into a player like Vidal, I thought he was unique. To me he looks more like Carrick with dribbling. Generally the point I'm trying to make is, that he shouldn't be hyped up like he is in this thread and if he'd sign for us, we'd have to be patient with him.
We would for sure have to be patient with him, that I agree with. Personally i'd sign Denis Zakaria for the DM role and he looks ready to step into our first 11 right away. He's having a great season at Gladbach and was brilliant in his last outing for his club.
He's having a good season, indeed, but I am just not sure, whether that has more to do with Rose's excellent coaching, than him actually stepping up. Wouldn't complain if we signed him though.
Still a work in progress; but promising. Soumare has good control, is not often dispossessed, nor dribbled past. He rarely shoots at goal. He doesn't foul too often. Definitely DCM, not box-to-box. Despite not often fouling he picked up 2 reds and no yellows in his 15 starts and 4 subs in Ligue 1. His stats puzzle because the League 1 and Champions League performances are so different. I like him on the basis of his Champions League performances and fundamentals.
Wouldn't buy him unless he came cheapish because United have plenty of prospects now. We're short on finished players. Paredes at PSG for me (if they'll sell).
Wouldn't buy him unless he came cheapish because United have plenty of prospects now. We're short on finished players. Paredes at PSG for me (if they'll sell).
Should we not consider a more established player as a DM. It is a critical position and needs someone who can not only shield effectively but control the game as well.
Premier league experience might also be important as it would need minimum adaptation time
Premier league experience might also be important as it would need minimum adaptation time
Prefer Partey for his experience at a higher level. Not sure we can get him though
Think everyone is forgetting how well Matic has done since coming in for McTominay. He is a proper number 6 but has got slower with age, but can still do a job for us.
I think Matic really struggles in the games where a DM is really important, against good possession-oriented teams with quick players like Chelsea, Liverpool and Man City.
He is great against sides like Wolves, and he would be a fantastic option for us but as first choice we could really improve with the right player. For instance Partey.
Ideally I think you're right, but if you had to decide between say, Grealish or Partey for arguments sake, who would you choose?
Even with Pogba leaving I don't see us buying two Cm's in the summer, and would rather go with Matic / McTom / Fred as serviceable if admittedly less than perfect DM's, in exchange for having a Bruno / Grealish duo of attacking 8's.
I think the football we'd see with that kind of setup would be a big step up.
I think he did fine against Chelsea, Liverpool and City in the recent games. The improvement of Fred has really helped I feel as he's giving the ball away far less and making more interceptions.