Borussia Dortmund 17/18 | Sky Germany: Lucien Favre to be next manager

do.ob said:
That doesn't mean I'm trying to talk Bosz up as a top coach btw, it just feels like people don't look past the end result.
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Fair enough.
When push comes to shove though, do you think BVB should keep Bosz any longer? I.e., how flawed, as opposed to how fixable/promising, do you regard his coaching? Because the way it seems, he appears close to being sacked, the BVB board themselves seem to severly doubt him, no? Else they'd be more forceful in defending him publicly.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
Fair enough.
When push comes to shove though, do you think BVB should keep Bosz any longer? I.e., how flawed, as opposed to how fixable/promising, do you regard his coaching? Because the way it seems, he appears close to being sacked, the BVB board themselves seem to severly doubt him, no? Else they'd be more forceful in defending him publicly.
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I honestly don't know. On one hand I think he's adapting and it's looking like he's out of the woods tactically. Fitness issues, however big or small they might be, should be relatively easy to fix if he's willing. On the other hand the results speak for themselves. If I was Watzke/Zorc I would probably talk to the team, do they trust him, can he get through to them, do they respect him? Is his training good? Do the players feel like he's teaching them something about football, making them better individually; and then decide if he has earned himself the opportunity to fix this mess. Obviously alternatives also play a big role. The prospect of looking towards the likes of Weinzierl or Labbadia or some youth team coach isn't exactly enticing.
 
PedroMendez said:
Schmelzer ist Captain ffs.
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That's something I'll never understand. He isn't even their best leftback, he isn't a player who shows up with great individual performances in big games, he isn't a vocal leader on the pitch. He's just consistently average. The weird thing is that I've heard plenty of Dortmund supporters defend that decision and they're the same bunch who very loudly criticised the decision to give Lahm the captaincy in the nationalteam and constantly blamed him as a loser before the treble winning season. While Lahm wasn't your typical captain, he was consistently great, world class for a decade and showed up time and again in big games with quality performances and brilliant individual moments.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
That's not an accurate account of what happened though. Tedesco reacted to being 'owned' after 30 minutes, and Schalke were the better team from then on. Bosz should have reacted to this, but he did not.
And the fragility is not primarily one of mindset IMO, but one of tactical balance. The fragility of mind follows that, as the players seem to feel that they cannot trust the way they're being set up by Bosz.
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It's really amazing but there always seem to come a point in Dortmund's game where they just keep ball watching. Against Spurs when Son and Dele just waltzed through 6 Dortmund defenders while they were admiring in awe how those to "magicians" were weaving their "magic". Same thing happened after the second goal for Schalke yesterday where no Dortmund player had the energy to actually close anyone down anymore or were too afraid or what the hell do I know what their problem is but this is absolutely stupefying to watch.
 
Balu said:
That's something I'll never understand. He isn't even their best leftback, he isn't a player who shows up with great individual performances in big games, he isn't a vocal leader on the pitch. He's just consistently average. The weird thing is that I've heard plenty of Dortmund supporters defend that decision and they're the same bunch who very loudly criticised the decision to give Lahm the captaincy in the nationalteam and constantly blamed him as a loser before the treble winning season. While Lahm wasn't your typical captain, he was consistently great, world class for a decade and showed up time and again in big games with quality performances and brilliant individual moments.
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It's not just Schmelzer. They have a hard time getting rid of the players who once shined under Klopp. Schmelzer, Sahin, Götze, Subotic, Weidenfeller, Piszczek, Durm and Kagawa are all players they could do without. Yet those seem to be the guys whose words carry the most weight in the locker room and especially with Watzke and Zorc. The absolute highlight was the grotesque showing Schmelzer and Sahin put on after the DFB cup finale. They just won a cup and Schmelzer had nothing better to do as to publicly criticize Tuchel for leaving Sahin out of the squad.
 
do.ob said:
Obviously alternatives also play a big role. The prospect of looking towards the likes of Weinzierl or Labbadia or some youth team coach isn't exactly enticing.
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Yes, of course. But considering how bad Nice's results are this season (I have not watched them so I can only go by the results), they might be much more willing to let Favre go in winter than they were last summer, when they refused to let him leave. So BVB could have their first choice after all.

Problem is, as much as I rate Favre, I also wouldn't put it beyond him to have some kind of passive-aggressive way of letting his frustration about not being able to leave impact his team's performance very negatively. That seems to have happened at the beginning of his last Gladbach season too, no?

And though he is surely a very good coach, does he bring the kind of consistent, across the board ppg-rate that a top club requires? All his jobs had mostly great spells, but somewhat weaker spells too, and rather bad endings with apparent internal clashes/friction with the club (this is also of interest to me because no doubt Favre is a coach Bayern should be thinking about).
Which brings us back to what a fateful decision Tuchel's sacking was IMO. It's possible it was indeed 'without alternative', as kicker claims, but the loss of coaching quality is real and seems to have been taken a bit lightly by the BVB board. Coaches that perform like Tuchel did don't grow on trees. Also ironic since Tuchel's negatives seem to mirror Favre's.

Other candidates? Right now? No idea.
 
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Cristiano Lell said:
I realize it's hip to rail against hipsters, but this is a rather narrow-minded thing to claim.
Obviously Bosz was selected because of his attributes. Yes, he got to the EL final (and played a good league campaign), and he did that with a very young and unexperienced team, playing a brand of football similar to what BVB had been cultivating in recent years.
These, especially the ability to work with a very young squad, are the reasons why the BVB thought he could be a good choice. Not absurd.

And tbf he's getting half of it right. He just looks like he's unable to get the balance right, which is bad. He's a bit like Pep if Pep was like his haters describe him.
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These attributes do not mean he should be picked to manage a club with expectations like Dortmund immediately. Managers need to progress gradually. I'd say Pochettino's step-ladder progression from Espanyol to Southampton and now Spurs is very logical and the way to go, as a model.

Appointing Bosz is as bad as some on here claiming Marco Silva is ready to manage United.
 
do.ob said:
I honestly don't know. On one hand I think he's adapting and it's looking like he's out of the woods tactically. Fitness issues, however big or small they might be, should be relatively easy to fix if he's willing. On the other hand the results speak for themselves. If I was Watzke/Zorc I would probably talk to the team, do they trust him, can he get through to them, do they respect him? Is his training good? Do the players feel like he's teaching them something about football, making them better individually; and then decide if he has earned himself the opportunity to fix this mess. Obviously alternatives also play a big role. The prospect of looking towards the likes of Weinzierl or Labbadia or some youth team coach isn't exactly enticing.
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That's a real problem for your team I have no doubt it's also the main reason why Bosz is given a bit longer to fix the current state of the team. Imo only someone like Nagelsmann, Hasenhüttel or Favre is going to be able to fix your problems. Get a manager who is more pragmatic and can adapt if tactical problems arise and you should be fighting for second place again and that will be even harder to get right now or in January than it was last summer.
 
Kapardin said:
These attributes do not mean he should be picked to manage a club with expectations like Dortmund immediately. Managers need to progress gradually. I'd say Pochettino's step-ladder progression from Espanyol to Southampton and now Spurs is very logical and the way to go, as a model.

Appointing Bosz is as bad as some on here claiming Marco Silva is ready to manage United.
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I get your point, but I don't agree fully. At some point coaches have to make a leap towards a higher level, and boards have to make a leap of faith appointing coaches.

Because the step ladder is no always so straight forward, or evenly paced, as you suggest. Bosz too had a progression, from a smaller Dutch club to Ajax to BVB.
BVB appointed coaches from Mainz before, successfully.
It's kind of paradoxical to suggest, as your argument seems to be, that a club like BVB, which had a big name coach like Klopp, should not appoint coaches that are not 'proven', when of course Klopp made a big name and 'proved' himself at BVB itself.

There's no reason to rule out that Marco Silva could do great at United.
 
Cristiano Lell said:
Problem is, as much as I rate Favre, I also wouldn't put it beside him to have some kind of passive-aggressive way of letting his frustration about not being able to leave impact his team's performance very negatively. That seems to have happened at the beginning of his last Gladbach season too, no?
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There are certainly some question marks about Favre in my book. Certainly his quick falling out with his teams or managers is one of them. He certainly isn't a perfect fit for them but then again I don't really know who would be apart from Hasenhüttel or Nagelsmann who both are most certainly not obtainable at this stage of the season.
 
NoLogo said:
There are certainly some question marks about Favre in my book. Certainly his quick falling out with his teams or managers is one of them. He certainly isn't a perfect fit for them but then again I don't really know who would be apart from Hasenhüttel or Nagelsmann who both are most certainly not obtainable at this stage of the season.
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Tempted to try to have a look into Nice-Lyon just now, since we're talking about it
 
Cristiano Lell said:
There's no reason to rule out that Marco Silva could do great at United.
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Vital point here. Tedesco was completely unproven and he is the first manager in a long time who makes Schalke look somewhat good again. Of course it's still early days and knowing Schalke it might all change within the blink of an eye but I simply think that not having experience is automatically a reason to rule someone out for making a big step up.
 
Chelsea could do with some offensive additions as Pedro/Willian haven't been great this season.
 
Auba turned into a bit of a cnut in the last two years, but I can't blame him for wanting to leave the team at the moment.
 
Who will be the next vastly overrated No.10 that we will sign from Dortmund and play on the right wing?
 
TheOrgazoid said:
Who will be the next vastly overrated No.10 that we will sign from Dortmund and play on the right wing?
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Emre Mor?! :D

I assume he went on loan to Celta. Another who was getting insanely hyped up not so long ago.
 
I am glad that Watzke is paying for his foolishness, now. Sacking Tuchel was a moment of brilliant stupidity.

Signing Bosz was comical, he could not have made a worse choice even if he had tried.
 
I was surprised they sold Mor. But I only know the hype around him. Not his actual talent.
 
Lay said:
I was surprised they sold Mor. But I only know the hype around him. Not his actual talent.
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Mor is insanely talented, in that he has ridiculous skills. But apparently BVB were not satisfied with his tactical behaviour and decision making. He basically played too much like a 11 year old who wants to dribble the whole opponent team, and also lost his temper quite easily.
 
Lay said:
I was surprised they sold Mor. But I only know the hype around him. Not his actual talent.
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He was more like a freestyle player. Dribbling, dribbling but never found the right time to pass. That was very frustrating and he learned nothing in his years under Tuchel.

Right decision to sell him, they can't wait years. Surely he has still a lot of time to improve.
 
https://www.derwesten.de/sport/fuss...alles-fuer-julian-nagelsmann-id212670241.html

The (usually) reliable WAZ reports that Dortmund have their eyes set on Nagelsmann.

-They've been looking at alternatives behind the scenes, not just since the Schalke match.
-It's a certainty that they will hire someone new by summer at the latest.
-Nagelsmann is on top of their short list.
-He was supposed to join them last summer already but had to stay put.
-He has a €5m release clause for 2019 (which also happens to be the end of Boszs contract)
-Dortmund is confident that they can buy him out.
-Wagner is named as a possible replacement.
-They are willing to look for unconventional solutions for the rest of the season to land him next summer.
-Hitzfeld was supposedly asked to take a job, but refused.
-Veh (now a pundit) is named a another option, he supposedly refused to comment on that when they (WAZ) phoned him.
-Favre is not an option, because he would not want to be a short term solution.
 
Sammer would be the perfect solution, but I guess after his minor stroke he´s not interested in taking on such a stressful job anymore, not even for a few months.
 
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