Black Sheep QF - Downcast vs. Sjor Bepo

[antohan]

..

----------------------------------Team Downcast----------------------------------vs.----------------------------------Team Sjor Bepo---------------------------------

DOWNCAST TACTICS

ETO'O - The Fast Striker with a strong team-spirit- 305 Goals/ 605 Games - Greatest African player for me. He has demonstrated his ability to score in any circumstances during his career

Captain PLATINI- Complete #10 with a high work-rate. Assists, Goals & Leadership - 318 Goals/ 580 Games. Ballon d'Or 83,84,85. The wingers will enable him to run the show at the heart of the Game.

GARRINCHA - The Greatest RW - 2 Times FIFA World Cup Champions

RIBERY - Hard-working LW - Percussion and combination - 2013 Bronze Ball Ballon'Dor
His low centre of gravity is useful in this context. Beckham will play against his nature here.

RIJKAARD- Central Midfielder - The required midfieder to limit the influence of Marado

ROBSON- Greatest British central midfielder- Complete B2B

CAMACHO - The Greatest Spanish LB. Top-level strength, stamina and aggressive style of play.

MOORE - LCB- WC 1966 Winner. SAF, Pelé and Beckenbauer considered him as the greatest central defender. Capable to get Tevez under control.

SCIREA - RCB - WC 1982 Winner - One of the best defenders the world has ever seen.

DANI ALVES - Complete RB - Capable to cut inside and combine with Garrincha. Stoickhov will be urged to defend on the left side...

CLEMENCE - The most decorated English GK - 460 clean sheets

Please click HERE to know more about these players!!


SJOR BEPO TACTICS

Was lucky enough to pick top 5 player of all time so would be very foolish of me not to have him as the central figure of my team - Diego Armando Maradona. The whole team is built around him, he is surrounded with complementary support cast which should give him the perfect foundations to shine on the stage. Movement, technical ability, selflessness, workrate, football brain are the ingredients I was looking for. All the while, the defense is extremely strong marshalled by another great in Daniele Passarella which provided the team a quality base to build on.

Without the ball

The plan is to stay compact and pressure when opponent steps over a certain line on the pitch. Throughout the whole team there is abundance of hard work and unselfishness starting with two workhorses up front in Tevez and Stoichkov, supported by bundle of energy that is Edgar Davids who is partnered with player that could do everything and play anywhere - Duncan "The Tank" Edwards. Should be more then enough considering the quality of the back 5.

With the ball

Maradona. He is the main force of this team, has complete freedom to do anything he wants and i think i provided him a very good platform to do so. Two unselfish strikers with great movement and hold up play, both will stretch the pitch both vertically and horizontally. Behind has security in Edwards and Davids but also two players that wont mind sacrificing their own game for his benefit.

PLAYER PROFILES

 

[antohan]

Good luck @Downcast @Šjor Bepo

 

[Ecstatic]

Thanks @antohan

 

[harms]

Two teams with obvious issues. Moore-Scirea partnership doesn't look complimentary, although Stoichkov-Tevez-Maradona won't provide a physical challenge for them, same with the right flank, where Garrincha doesn't dovetail nicely with Dani Alves. Rijkaard is a great upgrade though, he is an ideal fit for this midfield.

And, to be honest, I expected more from Bepo, I think he only picked Edwards in reinforcements? First, he overlaps with Davids in terms of his best position (which is clearly closer to the left), although he can still do a job as a right half; And second, he lacks a secondary playmaker from the back - neither Passarella, Edwards or Davids can not control the tempo, they are all to direct. I prefer to have one when I'm making a 3-5-2, at least. Well, and Hughes/Puyol combo - at least one of them should've been upgraded

 

[Ecstatic]

@harms

I understand your concerns about both teams.

As far as I'm concerned:

- Regarding the RB role. Garrincha is so brilliant that he doesn't need an offensive RB to shine. With Brazil he played with a conservative RB (Djalma Santos) in an era where the FB seemed to have less freedom to attack. Given the tactical system of the opposing team, Dani Alvès will have the opportunity to bring offensively by
------> by stretching the opposing defence because Garrincha is capable to cut inside
------> by joining the heart of the game. Dani Alvès isn't the greatest RB defensively but is complete offensively. That is why, he is one of the best providers of assists in the History of La Liga

- Moore & Scirea: I consider both players as complete CD part of a strong defensive unit. In this context, they should do the job here.

 

[harms]

- Regarding the RB role. Garrincha is so brilliant that he doesn't need an offensive RB to shine. With Brazil he played with a conservative RB (Djalma Santos) in an era where the FB seemed to have less freedom to attack

That's the point. Garrincha basically emulates what Alves did at his peak, although on a completely different level, of course, limiting him to a restricted full back role, at which Alves just isn't that good.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

First of all, here is the link for the full tactics as i thought 250 words limit was only for the first round...
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/the-fourth-redcafe-sheep-draft.426729/page-86#post-20576435

@harms even i expected more from the reinforcements and i go in drafts with zero expectations. From two possible picks i got one and that one is from the last round where i "had" to pick a player that i cant stand in a draft games.

Regarding a physical challenge i think we have a completely opposite view on my attack. Tevez amd Stoichkov are as physical as you can get IMO
You can say i lack a true number 9, that i lack height or something but not physicality. Both Hristo and Tevez were absolute beasts, maybe they dont look like a guys from gym commercials but i wouldnt bet against neither of them in a 50:50 ball. Tevez was absolutely top notch when it comes to playing with back to goal when ball is on the floor, he could hold of an elephant if needed, amazing strength.

But that midfield sides annoy the hell out of me TBH, i get it with players like Essien that are specialist for a certain side but when people are trying to force every midfielder on a certain side its baffling. Breitner, Keane, Davids can easily play both sides and in their style of play they find themselves on both sides during a game yet every draft game there is someone that insist on a specific side for every f player. As for Duncan, if we believe what they tell us about him he was the complete player that could play anywhere, so if he can start a game at striker, then move to winger position and finish the game at centerback i seriously doubt it he would have problems with adopting playing in an inside right position in the middle of the park.

General tactic is to play a defensive game and hit downcast on the counter via Stoichkov, Maradona and Tevez. In a more standard tactic id agree that i would need a secondary/support playmaker from deep but in this one where the mission is to get the ball as quickly as possible to Diego i think Passarella, Davids/Edwards and Beckham/Cabrini are more then enough.

IMO the best to get out of Maradona is to give everything to him, he just like Totti for example was a one man team where everything went through him, in fact i think he loved to be a big fish in the small pond(even though he would transform that pond into ocean) and if he had to share it like Messi/Pele with other greats/playmakers he wouldnt be a player that he was. Saying that, even if he was completely stopped this team wouldnt be finished, Stoichkov is more then capable to run the game on his own and provide an outlet for the team.

 

[harms]

Tevez and Stoichkov aren't going to bully defenders like Shearer or Vieri or even Drogba did. They were very tough and energetic, especially for their size, but they don't have that kind of strength that can highlight Moore's or Scirea's relative "weakness".

Similar to Maradona, actually.

 

[Ecstatic]

To sum up my views and make this thread living:

- Sorry if I'm wrong but I understand Beckham plays the role of a wing-back, not his best role IMO. He mostly shone as a right-side midfielder in a classic 4-4-2 system.

- Otherwise, it would mean we have a disguised 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 system with Puyol as a right-back. The latter has a decent track-record as a RB but Ribéry won't be an easy task for him (see Barcelona-Bayern in 2012/13).

- On the other wing, Cabrini and Hughes will have to be manage Garrincha and Dani Alvès. I can see Platini-Eto'o having a great impact.

- Question mark about the defensive tasks assigned to Stoickhov...and its repercussions on the performance of Tevez-Maradona

- I don't see a player like Tevez being a great threat in this context.

That's the point. Garrincha basically emulates what Alves did at his peak, although on a completely different level, of course, limiting him to a restricted full back role, at which Alves just isn't that good.

Regarding my team, there is no restrictions. The only one restriction I see here is the supposedly role of Beckham (right wing-back?) and Passarella (part of a back 3?)

If you look at the assists of Dani Alvès in La Liga, you would see he contributes offensively in various ways. I don't see him as the clone of Garrincha or any self-evident incompatibility. Any winger appreciates support.

Defensively, Dani Alvès is underrated despite having made great performances against players like Cr7, certainly because he is known for his offensive contribution.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Tevez and Stoichkov aren't going to bully defenders like Shearer or Vieri or even Drogba did. They were very tough and energetic, especially for their size, but they don't have that kind of strength that can highlight Moore's or Scirea's relative "weakness".

Similar to Maradona, actually.

We will have to agree to disagree on that one, at least regarding Stoichkov and Tevez as i agree on Maradona.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Otherwise, it would mean we have a disguised 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 system with Puyol as a right-back.

I'm taking this similar to a 3-4-3 with Cabrini having attacking from the deep and Beckham defending from the top.

 

[antohan]

@harms even i expected more from the reinforcements and i go in drafts with zero expectations. From two possible picks i got one and that one is from the last round where i "had" to pick a player that i cant stand in a draft games.

From the OP:
Reinforcements
There will be 2 reinforcements after the R16 and QF, 1 after the semi. Details will be revealed when the time comes, but be prepared to have unorthodox rules in place.

@The Stain and I share the view that the open pool reinforcements you have all grown used to negate much of the smart initial drafting. Some go leaps and bounds while other end up making marginal improvements. The idea here was that reinforcements shouldn't be expected. If you get them, fine, but build a side that can work out without them or not having access to the ideal players.

These days people just neglect certain positions safe in the knowledge there will be oodles of options to reinforce. Well, feck that, we changed the mechanics so it was possible but not a certainty. It's a sheep draft after all.

 

[The Stain]

Hear, hear.

 

[harms]

- Sorry if I'm wrong but I understand Beckham plays the role of a wing-back, not his best role IMO. He mostly shone as a right-side midfielder in a classic 4-4-2 system.

- Otherwise, it would mean we have a disguised 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 system with Puyol as a right-back. The latter has a decent track-record as a RB but Ribéry won't be an easy task for him (see Barcelona-Bayern in 2012/13).

I'm surprised that you, of all people, haven't recognized the classic zona mista set-up

 

[Šjor Bepo]

- Sorry if I'm wrong but I understand Beckham plays the role of a wing-back, not his best role IMO. He mostly shone as a right-side midfielder in a classic 4-4-2 system.

He plays as a defensive right midfielder to be precise, you can count him as a supporting wingback if you want. Yes, he isnt played in a role where he shined, in fact im not sure if he ever played in this role(think gio was mentioning in first round that he didnt but not important for me tbh).
Fullback and specially wingback positions are the easiest to play if you have the right attributes. There isnt much thinking involved in it and thats why you see a lot of players from different positions shining there. Failed centerbacks, failed wingers, midfielders etc. You had Hargo at United, Kuyt for Holland, now you see Milner for Pool and Moses for Chelsea, Valencia and Young for United etc. If you have the right qualities and IMO Beckham has you can play there.

- Otherwise, it would mean we have a disguised 4-4-2 or 4-3-3 system with Puyol as a right-back. The latter has a decent track-record as a RB but Ribéry won't be an easy task for him (see Barcelona-Bayern in 2012/13).

Call the formation as you wish, really not important to me. As for Puyol, he is playing as a RCB not as a defensive right-back, knows both cb and fb roles inside out and is used to covering for a bombarding wingback(Dani Alves) so i cant see much problems there.

- On the other wing, Cabrini and Hughes will have to be manage Garrincha and Dani Alvès. I can see Platini-Eto'o having a great impact.

As i said in the tactics post, i dont see Alves useful at all. Fantastic player when used correctly, with Garrnicha ahead of him he is pointless as Garrincha is well known as a ball hog of the highest order and a selfish player that liked to play 1v1 while Alves always had either a full flank for himself with Pedro cutting in or Messi with who he enjoyed his best football IMo where those 2 were taking the piss out of opponents with little tiki taka passes between them.

- Question mark about the defensive tasks assigned to Stoickhov...and its repercussions on the performance of Tevez-Maradona

He is playing his natural game, all 3 should shine and benefit from each other presence.

- I don't see a player like Tevez being a great threat in this context.

Your opinion, he is playing a supporting role in which he is a perfect tactical fit. Guy won everything where ever he played and he played on the highest level for 10 years. If he was the main man in this team id agree with you. he isnt good enough for the all-time draft but he is the sort of player Maradona enjoyed playing the most, very good players but not "stars" so he doesnt need to share his main role.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@antohan wasnt a dig against you guys, it was the combination of luck and my feck up.

 

[antohan]

@antohan it wasnt a dig against you guys, it was the combination of luck and my feck up.

No worries, I didn't take it as one, we just never explained why we set things up that way.

All reinforcement rounds are set up to address pet peeves of ours. They may or may not be shared. Managers may not get hold of what they would like to get, I don't think any real life manager has that luxury.

The relevant point is we set the rules in stone beforehand so there's no making things up to suit X, Y or Z.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

No worries, I didn't take it as one, we just never explained why we set things up that way.

All reinforcement rounds are set up to address pet peeves of ours. They may or may not be shared. Managers may not get hold of what they would like to get, I don't think any real life manager has that luxury.

The relevant point is we set the rules in stone beforehand so there's no making things up to suit X, Y or Z.

dont think you needed explaining to be honest, its a sheep draft so its just normal that reinforcements are picked in the same manner.

 

[antohan]

dont think you needed explaining to be honest, its a sheep draft so its just normal that reinforcements are picked in the same manner.

Sure, just getting the health warning in. We've had auction elements, DoF-style interferences... The next round will be snake, and the basis won't be random but...

 

[Ecstatic]

He plays as a defensive right midfielder to be precise, you can count him as a supporting wingback if you want. Yes, he isnt played in a role where he shined, in fact im not sure if he ever played in this role(think gio was mentioning in first round that he didnt but not important for me tbh).
Fullback and specially wingback positions are the easiest to play if you have the right attributes. There isnt much thinking involved in it and thats why you see a lot of players from different positions shining there. Failed centerbacks, failed wingers, midfielders etc. You had Hargo at United, Kuyt for Holland, now you see Milner for Pool and Moses for Chelsea, Valencia and Young for United etc. If you have the right qualities and IMO Beckham has you can play there.

Of course, Beckham can play there. Let's say I don't think you will get the most out of him if his task #1 is to defend.

As i said in the tactics post, i dont see Alves useful at all. Fantastic player when used correctly, with Garrnicha ahead of him he is pointless as Garrincha is well known as a ball hog of the highest order and a selfish player that liked to play 1v1 while Alves always had either a full flank for himself with Pedro cutting in or Messi with who he enjoyed his best football IMo where those 2 were taking the piss out of opponents with little tiki taka passes between them.

You think Dani Alvès (99 caps with Brazil) is a useless RB while Beckham as a defensive midfielder certainly makes more sense...

I like Beckham and would like to say about him 'Fantastic player when used correctly'

Your opinion, he is playing a supporting role in which he is a perfect tactical fit. Guy won everything where ever he played and he played on the highest level for 10 years. If he was the main man in this team id agree with you. he isnt good enough for the all-time draft but he is the sort of player Maradona enjoyed playing the most, very good players but not "stars" so he doesnt need to share his main role.

Sure, Tevez makes sense on the tactical level.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

You think Dani Alvès (99 caps with Brazil) is a useless RB while Beckham as a defensive midfielder certainly makes more sense...

Yes, i think Dani Alves is pointless behind Garrincha as the latter one wont use him so 90% of Dani Alves qualities go to waste IMO
Its not about quality its about tactical fit, so Dani Alves being most decorated player ever or having xy caps for Nation Team means nothing or very little there.

 

[Ecstatic]

Yes, i think Dani Alves is pointless behind Garrincha as the latter one wont use him so 90% of Dani Alves qualities go to waste IMO
Its not about quality its about tactical fit, so Dani Alves being most decorated player ever or having xy caps for Nation Team means nothing or very little there.

The vast majority of my players are collective ones so that he will have the opportunities to participate in the build-up.

Offensive contribution in various ways: he can deliver assists for Eto'o, Ribéry and Platini





Defensive contribution

There are diverse Youtube videos 'Cr7 vs dani alvès'. And the latter makes the job to limit the influence of a Cristiano unplayable at his prime. I mentioned the # of caps - not to impress somebody - but to mean he isn't viewed as a player only made to play for Barcelona and his tiki-taka style.

Now, I'm not saying Dani Alvès is one the top 10 greatest RB of All-Times. I just say he isn't a fraud as attested by his track record.

Stoickhov isn't a typical winger but a talented forward who tends to cut inside and be attracted by the penalty area: he isn't the issue of Dani Alves but of the defensive unit.

 

[Ecstatic]

Let's discuss new topics or players.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

There are diverse Youtube videos 'Cr7 vs dani alvès'. And the latter makes the job to limit the influence of a Cristiano unplayable at his prime. I mentioned the # of caps - not to impress somebody - but to mean he isn't viewed as a player only made to play for Barcelona and his tiki-taka style.

Now, I'm not saying Dani Alvès is one the top 10 greatest RB of All-Times. I just say he isn't a fraud as attested by his track record.

Stoickhov isn't a typical winger but a talented forward who tends to cut inside and be attracted by the penalty area: he isn't the issue of Dani Alves but of the defensive unit.

Dont think anyone called him a fraud and i dont think he can only play in tiki taka, not even close but he is just a poor fit for Garrincha IMO
As for Stoichkov, he would stretch the play both vertically and horizontally so im guessing he would have a fair share of his clashes with Alves.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Let's discuss new topics or players.

Its very difficult to find a good topic for the debate as im first to admit my team is weakest on paper in the QF so the way usually debates go in 1v1 situations i dont stand a chance.
Built a team in a way i think its best to get the best out of Diego. No other GOATs, all players in support roles for him to shine so its now up to people if they buy that or they think the average quality of an individual will prevail with no disrespect to your tactical side. Other then few small things i already commented, its a well built side with a player that isnt far behind Diego in the all-time rank.

 

[Chesterlestreet]

Rijkaard, Robbo, Platini looks like a nice core there.

Some suitability/dovetailing issues.

Garrincha-Alves, Garrincha-Platini, Moore-Scirea. All of them have been discussed to death before.

Bepo's setup looks alright. I can buy Tevez as being there due to his general compatibility with Diego. Still somewhat underwhelming, but he isn't sold as something he ain't.

 

[Ecstatic]

Dont think anyone called him a fraud and i dont think he can only play in tiki taka, not even close but he is just a poor fit for Garrincha IMO
As for Stoichkov, he would stretch the play both vertically and horizontally so im guessing he would have a fair share of his clashes with Alves.

Don't worry. In the games, I tend to be provocative and misrepresent the points made by some participants

But I have made progress: I'm no longer capable to write 20 posts to mean the same thing.

Garrincha-Alves, Garrincha-Platini, Moore-Scirea. All of them have been discussed to death before.

That is why, I agreed with you about the opportunity to decrease the number of traditional games and avoid repetitive debates.

 

[Ecstatic]

Its very difficult to find a good topic for the debate as im first to admit my team is weakest on paper in the QF so the way usually debates go in 1v1 situations i dont stand a chance.
Built a team in a way i think its best to get the best out of Diego. No other GOATs, all players in support roles for him to shine so its now up to people if they buy that or they think the average quality of an individual will prevail with no disrespect to your tactical side. Other then few small things i already commented, its a well built side with a player that isnt far behind Diego in the all-time rank.

Your strategy is consistent and excellent to make Diego shine.

A target man like Batistita or Gerd Muller would have been great in terms of physical impact and because you have a player like Beckham whose long passing skills are .

Difficult to avoid 1v1 debates.

I know Edwards has a strong reputation but what is his style of play just out of curiosity?

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I know Edwards has a strong reputation but what is his style of play just out of curiosity?

Nobody knows mate, thats why i "hate" him in drafts.....there is only one game of him online and there he plays as a centerback and you cant really believe what everybody says about him as those comments are most likely over the top due the obvious reasons.

 

[Ecstatic]

Nobody knows mate, thats why i "hate" him in drafts.....there is only one game of him online and there he plays as a centerback and you cant really believe what everybody says about him as those comments are most likely over the top due the obvious reasons.

I appreciate your honesty.

Wiki says

Although he is primarily remembered as a defensive midfielder, Edwards is said to have been able to operate in any outfield position on the field of play.[9] His versatility was such that on one occasion he started the match playing as an emergency striker in place of one injured player before being switched to central defence in place of another.[79] His greatest assets were his physical strength and his level of authority on the pitch, which was said to be remarkable for such a young player,[21] and he was particularly noted for his high level of stamina.[59] Stanley Matthews described him as being "like a rock in a raging sea", and Bobby Moore likened him to the Rock of Gibraltar when defending but also noted that he was "dynamic coming forward".[49] His imposing physique earned him the nicknames "Big Dunc" and "The Tank", and he has been ranked amongst the toughest players of all time.[81]

Edwards was noted for the power and timing of his tackles and for his ability to pass and shoot equally well with both feet.[63] He was known for his surging runs up the pitch and was equally skilled at heading the ball and at striking fierce long-range shots.[49][82] After scoring a goal on 26 May 1956, in a 3–1 friendly win against West Germany, he was given the nickname "Boom Boom" by the local press because of "the Big Bertha shot in his boot.

Physically, he was enormous. He was strong and had a fantastic football brain. His ability was complete – right foot, left foot, long passing, short passing. He did everything instinctively.

–Bobby Charlton

A robust #6 who plays near the central defence but is very mobile.

 

[Ecstatic]

I'm surprised that you, of all people, haven't recognized the classic zona mista set-up

Zona Mista without Scirea?

 

[Chesterlestreet]

That is why, I agreed with you about the opportunity to decrease the number of traditional games and avoid repetitive debates.

Yep - this is a prime example of the very thing.

It gets a bit absurd: It would clearly be a factor in the (fantasy) match: Do you buy it (the Garrincha-whoever combo) or not? But who wants to go there again at length? Not me, for one.

Anyway, I think you'd edge it here. Don't think Bepo's setup (which makes sense to some extent as a «build it round Diego» effort) would be enough to capitalize on those possible dovetailing/balance issues you have. You have enough quality to be given the benefit of the doubt.

Boring argument, I know.

The issues will likely be present at the next stage too, should you win the match. Unless you go nuts and bench a GOAT or two.

 

[Enigma_87]

Yep - this is a prime example of the very thing.

It gets a bit absurd: It would clearly be a factor in the (fantasy) match: Do you buy it (the Garrincha-whoever combo) or not? But who wants to go there again at length? Not me, for one.

Anyway, I think you'd edge it here. Don't think Bepo's setup (which makes sense to some extent as a «build it round Diego» effort) would be enough to capitalize on those possible dovetailing/balance issues you have. You have enough quality to be given the benefit of the doubt.

Boring argument, I know.

The issues will likely be present at the next stage too, should you win the match. Unless you go nuts and bench a GOAT or two.

Me and Joga had this debate in the Americas draft for who we go for with Garrincha already in the team. Overlapping attacking full back for me is not a great idea. Garrincha needs all the space in the world on that right flank and a balanced or defensive RB is the only way to incorporate him and bring balance to that wing IMO. Djalma Santos works, Zanetti, Lahm, Burgnich and Bergomi also work IMO. Cafu/Dani Alves, well... IMO is not a good fit.

 

[Ecstatic]

Yep - this is a prime example of the very thing.

It gets a bit absurd: It would clearly be a factor in the (fantasy) match: Do you buy it (the Garrincha-whoever combo) or not? But who wants to go there again at length? Not me, for one.

The issues will likely be present at the next stage too, should you win the match. Unless you go nuts and bench a GOAT or two.

Thanks for your post.

Exactly, this is the issue of an umpteenth All-Time draft: the same managers target the same players they know extremely well and whose level is similar.

In the next drafts, I will try to target some players who are not the (boring) usual suspects.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Anyway, I think you'd edge it here. Don't think Bepo's setup (which makes sense to some extent as a «build it round Diego» effort) would be enough to capitalize on those possible dovetailing/balance issues you have. You have enough quality to be given the benefit of the doubt.

But thats the point, Maradona killed that difference in real life for Napoli so why not give him the benefit of the doubt in a draft game?


SEASON----MILAN----NAPOLI---CHAMPIONS
1986-87------5th---------1st------Napoli
1987-88------1st---------2nd------Milan
1988-89------3rd---------2nd-----Inter
1989-90------2nd---------1st-----Napoli

When you compare them to Milan for example, Milan had a much better squad with the GOATs like Van Basten, Rijkaard, Baresi, Maldini, Gullit etc. yet Napoli side that was build around Maradona with very good players(contrary to the popular belief) but nowhere near the Milan guard were finishing ahead of them on a constant basis.



I know the game is finished but just to keep "debate" alive so we at least get to the half of post from enigma vs raees thread

 

[Moby]

Interesting video Sjor. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Ohh one more thing, to stop Maradona more often then not you had to foul him, plain and simple. With that in mind, i have both Diego and Beckham on set piece duty so that could play a major role in the game IMO

 

[Chesterlestreet]

@Šjor Bepo That's a fair enough point as such, but I don't quite buy it in this context. It's a fantasy match featuring GOATs all over the shop. Maradona never played against prime Platini, Rijkard and Garrincha - without mentioning Moore and Scirea - all at once.

You'd have to conclude that some or all of the following holds true:

The discrepancy (in quality) isn't too worrying.

Your opponent's possible flaws in terms of suitability/balance are truly significant (to the point where they become positively detrimental).

Your own setup is pretty much perfect for Maradona (like the historical ones above).

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Šjor Bepo That's a fair enough point as such, but I don't quite buy it in this context. It's a fantasy match featuring GOATs all over the shop. Maradona never played against prime Platini, Rijkard and Garrincha - without mentioning Moore and Scirea - all at once.

You'd have to conclude that some or all of the following holds true:

The discrepancy (in quality) isn't too worrying.

Your opponent's possible flaws in terms of suitability/balance are truly significant (to the point where they become positively detrimental).

Your own setup is pretty much perfect for Maradona (like the historical ones above).

Sure, he is facing the bigger test here but also his team is much better and give him much better foundations to do so, at least IMO.
Regarding those 3 statements or what ever you want to call them, id say number 1 and 3 are correct, 2 isnt. Downcast team has some flaws but nothing major to the point that it would cost him the game.

 

[Ecstatic]

But thats the point, Maradona killed that difference in real life for Napoli so why not give him the benefit of the doubt in a draft game?


SEASON----MILAN----NAPOLI---CHAMPIONS
1986-87------5th---------1st------Napoli
1987-88------1st---------2nd------Milan
1988-89------3rd---------2nd-----Inter
1989-90------2nd---------1st-----Napoli


When you compare them to Milan for example, Milan had a much better squad with the GOATs like Van Basten, Rijkaard, Baresi, Maldini, Gullit etc. yet Napoli side that was build around Maradona with very good players(contrary to the popular belief) but nowhere near the Milan guard were finishing ahead of them on a constant basis.

Rijkaard joined Milan AC in 1988 (summer) so your table is misleading
Van Basten joined Milan in 1987 (summer).

A fair comparison would be between 1988 and 1991: Rijkaard and Maradona in Serie A at the same time.

When you compare them to Milan for example, Milan had a much better squad with the GOATs like Van Basten, Rijkaard, Baresi, Maldini, Gullit etc. yet Napoli side that was build around Maradona with very good players(contrary to the popular belief) but nowhere near the Milan guard were finishing ahead of them on a constant basis.

Sure, Maradona is a ultimate legend of the Game.

Milan didn't have Platini who ruled Europe with Juventus.

The Napoli side differs from your team in different aspects (not the same philosophy/strategy).

Comparison game has its limitations.