Black Sheep Draft QF - onenil vs Pat

With players at peak, who wins?


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The Stain

Soccer Manager's Highwayman
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onenil ---------- vs ---------- Pat

@oneniltothearsenal original lineup:

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ONENIL'S TACTICS

I have long thought that the player Messi most resembles is not Maradona but Zico. The closest style of play to Messi that I have seen personally is Zico. The times I have heard Zico praise Messi I also think he believes that is true although he never makes that comparison himself as he is humble. This is why building a side around Socrates as America's team I am excited about using him with Messi as I think Socrates is the perfect player to facilitate a side with Messi and the fenomeno. Messi is the only player I would admit to being an upgrade on Zico to team with Socrates. Socrates would also thrive in bringing players together like Ronaldo and Henry. Henry was a superb team player holding the PL single season record for assists still and Ronaldo would smile bigger than he ever has with Socrates and Messi to work with.

One reason in particular this combo works is that Socrates is well equipped to help spring Messi free of Maldini. As Socrates and Zico worked combinations to cut through even a legendary Italian defense with Gentile marking Zico, Socrates offers the precision, unpredicatability and intelligence to spring Messi free of Maldini’s influence.

Didi and Obdulio form the platform to allow this front four to perform at their full potential. Didi intercepts and play makes from deep while Obdulio offers an unmatched gladiator defending and superb positional play. Both of these players have outstanding footballing IQ and ability to read games and anticipate outcomes. Chumpitaz and Santamaría form the defensive core. Selected because they both possess strength, agility and superb positional reading of the game, Chumpitaz and Santamaría dictate the defensive tempo. Both well rounded defenders against all types of forwards and very solid on the ball.

Some more info

PAT'S TACTICS

Onenil boasts a jaw-dropping collection of attacking talent and, annoyingly from my perspective, they look coherent in terms of playing style. That said, and not discounting Messi and Rivaldo’s ability to provide some degree of width, it should still be a relatively narrow attacking set up, with minimal aerial threat. We’re playing with a fairly deep and compact defence, with two top-notch defensive full backs in Maldini and Burgnich tucking in to buttress a complementary pair of centre backs. With Schmeichel in goal and the formidable Desailly patrolling in front of them, it’s an extremely strong defensive unit.

Hierro and Scholes provide the on the ball quality in transition. Scholes has some pedigree in this type of backs to the wall encounter, turning in a match-winning display against a strong Barcelona team in the 2008 CL semi-final. In possession, he’ll be in his element here, linking with Cruyff and spraying the ball to our two wingers. We’ll look to counter attack quickly in general, but in Scholes and Cruyff we have ample quality to impose periods of possession football on the opposition too.

The Barnes/Cruyff connection is my favourite aspect of this team – a souped up version of the mesmerising Barnes/Beardsley link up at Liverpool. On the other wing, Matthews will renew acquaintance with Nilton, who he left with twisted blood with a MOTM display vs Brazil at 41 years old. The prolific, explosive Alberto Spencer, famously brilliant in the air, will lap up the calibre and variety of the service from the wingers and Cruyff, who will use his creative genius to orchestrate our attacking game.
 
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It's quite obvious who the favorite here is but I won't vote yet as that central core of Pat's team is absolutely immense and can hold up an enormous amount of pressure and I need to think about that little more. Ronaldo has attributes to outplay it though.

Well this, and Matthews vs Nilton - as much as I try not to judge the result of confrontation on the basis of one game, it's hard to forget possibly the greatest ever one-on-one winger/fullback humiliation (considering the stature of Nilton as arguably the greatest left back in history).
 
I don't like Henry in that left side in a 4231, he's never played it really. Makes onenil hugely susceptible but there's much more quality throughout his side and he he'd take this, messi R9 is just about as good as it gets
 
It's quite obvious who the favorite here is but I won't vote yet as that central core of Pat's team is absolutely immense and can hold up an enormous amount of pressure and I need to think about that little more. Ronaldo has attributes to outplay it though.

Well this, and Matthews vs Nilton - as much as I try not to judge the result of confrontation on the basis of one game, it's hard to forget possibly the greatest ever one-on-one winger/fullback humiliation (considering the stature of Nilton as arguably the greatest left back in history).

Definitely. Not to mention that was far away from Matthews peak, I'd love it if this draft could put some clarification on him in his peak and maybe there is some footage about. At least get as close as we can to it.
 
I don't like Henry in that left side in a 4231, he's never played it really. Makes onenil hugely susceptible but there's much more quality throughout his side and he he'd take this, messi R9 is just about as good as it gets
Surprised he never stuck with Rivaldo given his golden partnership with Ronaldo, left footedness and proven performances on the left. Not necessarily where he was happiest, but he was clearly very effective there. The other option could have been jettisoning the doctor but fair play to onenil for sticking to his guns.
 
I don't like Henry in that left side in a 4231, he's never played it really. Makes onenil hugely susceptible but there's much more quality throughout his side and he he'd take this, messi R9 is just about as good as it gets
Surprised he never stuck with Rivaldo given his golden partnership with Ronaldo, left footedness and proven performances on the left. Not necessarily where he was happiest, but he was clearly very effective there. The other option could have been jettisoning the doctor but fair play to onenil for sticking to his guns.

It was definitely a tough decision but I wanted to play Henry in at least one match and I wanted his 2002-04 incarnation here where I felt his natural tendency to drift inside-left channels would help create space. I don't think the bolded part is valid criticism though. Henry started as a left winger and continually worked that area of space throughout his career and also I could just say Burgnich never played as a fullback in a 4231 either.

Well this, and Matthews vs Nilton - as much as I try not to judge the result of confrontation on the basis of one game, it's hard to forget possibly the greatest ever one-on-one winger/fullback humiliation (considering the stature of Nilton as arguably the greatest left back in history).

This goes both ways though as Ronaldo humiliated all of Pat's defenders he played against as well.

 
This goes both ways though as Ronaldo humiliated all of Pat's defenders he played against as well.
Well, that's why I specifically mentioned him being well-equipped to face Pat's backline (probably better that anyone else in your front four)
 
Love that video, cheers mate. There's a nice BBC documentary on him here that includes a few bits of pre-WWII footage. It was interesting to hear him say that he used to do sprint training. Very much ahead of his time in that regard I'd imagine.

Cheers mate, will get back to you. In the mean while have a look at this one, should be more relevant than ever with both Messi and Matthews featuring here.
 
Love that video, cheers mate. There's a nice BBC documentary on him here that includes a few bits of pre-WWII footage. It was interesting to hear him say that he used to do sprint training. Very much ahead of his time in that regard I'd imagine.
Yeah. Read his book, there's a lot in there about how far he was ahead of his time. Daily early morning solo training sessions to work on his sprinting and dribbling; super clean lifestyle; commissioned special lightweight boots; etc.
 
I don't like Henry in that left side in a 4231, he's never played it really. Makes onenil hugely susceptible but there's much more quality throughout his side and he he'd take this, messi R9 is just about as good as it gets

He started his career as a Left-Winger with Monaco in 1997/98: the offensive trio was Henry-Trezeguet-Ikpeba. They lost against the Juve in the SF of the ECL.
Euro 2000: he mainly played on the left side and scored a nice goal against Denmark.
Euro 2000 final:

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Varela v Cruyff is an interesting battle.. as good as Varela is and he marked out Zizinho, Cruyff is a monstrous talent so it comes down to how much you are able to assess Varela.. anyone have any footage on him?

Matthews v Nilton is another interesting battle which sways me towards Pat.

Messi v Maldini.. id back Maldini but in a side with that much talent, I think it'll be hard to mark Messi out of the game once he cuts in.

Another close encounter.
 
This goes both ways though as Ronaldo humiliated all of Pat's defenders he played against as well.



Ronaldo scored 3 in 7 club games vs Maldini (1 penalty) and 2 in 5 vs Hierro, so statistically at least they fared better than most against him. Maldini and Ronaldo battled on even terms IMO, and in each other's opinion too:

Ronaldo:

Maldini was the hardest defender I've faced. We would be at each other every time we played. Sometimes I could beat him, sometimes I couldn't. He was the best.

Maldini:

Ronaldo and Maradona were the toughest players I've ever faced.

For all that its only one game, the chasing Matthews gave Nilton was on another level.
 
Varela v Cruyff is an interesting battle.. as good as Varela is and he marked out Zizinho, Cruyff is a monstrous talent so it comes down to how much you are able to assess Varela.. anyone have any footage on him?

Sadly Varela is one that I have not been able to turn up much footage so relying mostly on anecdotes and older writers. The reason i think he matches up well against Cruyff is that Varela was a master at reading the tempo of the match and knowing exactly when and how to speed up or slow down the tempo. This is something I don't see discussed much in matches but it makes a tremendous difference. Cruyff likes to run tempo and that is where he thrives but Varela is master at taking away the opponents tempo and forcing them to play different tempo. This is why Varela perfectly foils Cruyff's intentions because Varela can read the tempo and change it up.

Paraphrased from Osvaldo Soriano said:
Then the Black Chief took the ball under his arm and addressed the English referee to claim, with all due respect, an offside. The referee did not understand him and an interpreter had to be called. Several minutes passed. The Black Chief knew what he was doing: gaining time, calming the environment, starting a war of nerves.As soon as the game was resumed, the Black Chief only said a word to his companions: "Follow me." In minute 17, the Uruguayan Schiaffino tied the match. And in the absence of 10 minutes, The Black Head gave the ball to Ghiggia and he scored 2-1.

And the reason I set up this way is that this is not going to be just 1v1 matchups like Messi vs. Maldini. Socrates is uniquely adept at combos with a play style like Messi and knowing how to spring that player free - or combo with them as decoy to score himself.

For me Socrates - Messi is a stronger than the sum of its parts combination that Cruyff and Alberto Spencer is not because the latter doesn't work nearly as synergistically. The opposition is caught between two different playing styles to maximize the players. They don't complement or supplement each others skill sets as mine so its not just about 1v1 battles. Its about combinations in my side and how those combinations interact. I just don't see Cruyff and Spencer working as well and Barnes and Matthews don't really scream total voetbal either.

I don't see a consistent style of play throughout the opponents side that I have strived to create for my side.
 
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It's a close game for me. Onenil has more quality in attack, but Pat has the defenders to counter it. I think Pat's midfield would probably control the game with Cruyff's added influence.

Still not sure about the outcome and will follow the discussion.
 
@Raees is definetely Mister Battle :D

When teams are as good as this and when the managers are as experienced as these two drafters.. it comes down to how you envisage individual battles playing out in order to gain that advantage. I take the fact both teams are well set up as a given at this stage.
 
When teams are as good as this and when the managers are as experienced as these two drafters.. it comes down to how you envisage individual battles playing out in order to gain that advantage. I take the fact both teams are well set up as a given at this stage.

It wasn't a tackle. No game without battles of course :)
 
For me Socrates - Messi is a stronger than the sum of its parts combination that Cruyff and Alberto Spencer is not because the latter doesn't work nearly as synergistically. The opposition is caught between two different playing styles to maximize the players. They don't complement or supplement each others skill sets as mine so its not just about 1v1 battles. Its about combinations in my side and how those combinations interact. I just don't see Cruyff and Spencer working as well and Barnes and Matthews don't really scream total voetbal either.

I don't see a consistent style of play throughout the opponents side that I have strived to create for my side.

There's no doubt whatsoever in my mind that Barnes and Cruyff are complementary. Barnes was far more than a pure dribbler, as evidenced by his late-career renaissance as a central midfielder. His passing and movement was superb and he'll lap up the opportunities for one-twos and quick give and gos with Cruyff. Cruyff's tendency to roam to the left wing is very similar to Beardsley who formed a great partnership with Barnes.

It's probably not a popular sentiment around here but I have the weirdest love for Barnes as a player despite him being a Liverpool legend, and I've tortured @Skizzo on numerous occasiosn rambling on about him :D. He's one of the great wingers for me. Here's a great article on him that I'd encurage everyone to read:

There is a tendency in English football to judge players on their consistency over many years. Players such as Bobby Moore, Bryan Robson and Gary Lineker are looked on favourably for their ability to maintain high standards over a long period of time. But it's easy to assess performance when you have simplistic, almost binary, expectations of a footballer. Moore stopped attacks, Robson roared and Lineker scored goals. Do these things and earn praise. Easy.

But sometimes a player comes along who doesn't fit the mould. English football in the 1980s and 1990s wasn't ready for John Barnes. When he emerged at Second Division Watford in 1981 an inflexible 4-4-2 was de rigueur. The terraces pulsated with a dark and brooding tribalism. Supporters wanted the 11 men who represented them to do so in warrior-like fashion.

The tricky wingers of the 60s and 70s were a dying breed. Physicality, perhaps encouraged by a failing youth system and the macho image of the English game, was seen as the way forward. The bigger you were the better you were. There were countless stories of players being passed over at youth level due to their short stature – Peter Beardsley being a chief example. At almost 6ft Barnes never had this problem. And having arrived in England from Jamaica at 15, he also avoided having the application-before-expression mentality drummed into him that hindered many a talented player's career at the time.

But his blend of power and poise made him hard to pigeonhole. He wouldn't just run. He'd dangle the carrot and wait for the bite, before gliding away and then slowing down again to weigh up his options and play the perfect ball into the box. He was a forward comprised of physicality and cerebral brilliance in equal measure.

He passed the ball short. And moved. And passed it again. His strength gave him the ability to hold on to the ball and wait for the opposing team's formation to shift, before releasing a delicate but devastating pass. The end product was always so graceful. Even if Barnes had just shrugged off a defender in a race to the byline, the resulting cross would be the flick of an artist's brush rather than a crude arrow drawn on a chalkboard. When he scored, he did so by placing the ball with calculated accuracy.

Barnes showed flashes of all these attributes at Watford under Graham Taylor, scoring 13 league goals and helping the side earn promotion back to Division One in his debut season. At only 19 he scored 10 goals in the top tier the very next season when Watford surprised everyone by finishing runners-up with their exciting attacking style. To boot, Barnes was instrumental in the club's FA Cup run to Wembley a year later.

The Maracanã millstone
He soon earned an England call-up. And his bittersweet relationship with the national team began. It was at the Maracanã in 1984 when he scored that goal, which was both dazzling and distorting. The 35-yard run and finish, in which Barnes beat five Brazil players with elegance, lightning footwork and no little pace, would forever be a millstone. Had Leandro tried harder to stop him Barnes's relationship with the England team – and their unforgiving fans – would perhaps have been easier. "It changed people's perceptions of me," Barnes said earlier this year. "It also changed people's expectations of me every time I played for England after that."

It really did. In just the same way as Lineker was expected to score, Robson run and Moore tackle, Barnes was now expected to slalom towards goal every time he received the ball. But in an England team that was so prosaic, when Barnes played he touched the ball so rarely it was not possible. England should have built a team around Barnes. But instead they just bolted him on to the side and turned him into a flashy but ineffective accessory.

He said himself that at Liverpool, who signed him from Watford for £900,000 in 1987 (much to Sir Alex Ferguson's consternation in later years, when he admitted that he had hoped to take him to Old Trafford), he could receive the ball over 20 to 30 times in a match from team-mates who were schooled to draw players and pass short. In a statuesque England team, where he was chained to the left wing, it could be as few as six or seven. The chances to impact the game were few and far between, with a lack of movement inhibiting Barnes's inclination to play a one-two to get on the move in the first place and then let the magic follow some simple but effective buildup play.

These days it is accepted that elite clubs are often superior to national teams. Lionel Messi and Cristiano Ronaldo are considered greats because of what they have done at club level. Neither could be said to have shone as brightly for Argentina and Portugal. But in the 80s international football was still seen as the pinnacle by many. And with Barnes unable to showcase his talents in Europe due to the five-year ban on English teams (six for Liverpool) following the Heysel disaster, the spotlight and pressure on his England career grew ever more intense and his brilliance at club level was perhaps deemed less impressive than it would be today due to a lack of global exposure.

When he did get pulses racing in an England shirt it came in the form of brief cameos, such as the game-changing display as a substitute in the World Cup quarter-final against Argentina in 1986, when both he and Chris Waddle were brought on to chase the game with England 2-0 down. Barnes terrorised the three-man Argentina defence, dragging them out of position and creating Lineker's 81st-minute goal. In 15 minutes Barnes showed that he could influence a game every bit as much as Diego Maradona. But that Barnes and Waddle – two of the England squad's most creative and skilful players (Glenn Hoddle being the other) – were afforded such scant time on the pitch, showed the lack of proactive thinking that would dog Barnes's international career.

The Liverpool love affair
If England was a testing and ultimately doomed relationship, in Liverpool he had found his soulmate. Between 1987 and 1991 Barnes was a phenomenon. With Beardsley's willingness to double-up on the left , despite being a second striker, as well as John Aldridge's spooky ability to read Barnes's deliveries into the box, he flourished in a trio that scored 64 goals in their first season together. And the mazy dribbles that England fans craved from Barnes were now ten-a-penny on Merseyside.

Unshackled, his confidence and talent grew. His ability to beat players without appearing to change gear was a gift that only a select few players have ever been able to showcase. And for three years at Liverpool he did so effortlessly. His second goal in the 4-0 defeat of the league leaders QPR in October 1987 was a perfect example. After stealing the ball on the halfway line he picked up pace as he approached the penalty box, with Terry Fenwick and Paul Parker closing, he seamlessly shifted his hulking frame left and right to create a gap between them, before calmly emerging unscathed to slip the ball past David Seaman's outstretched left hand. "Whenever would-be tacklers came sliding in, I tried to toe the ball past them, ride the challenge and regain balance and the ball on the other side. After I pushed the ball past Fenwick, I landed and brought the ball back with my left foot in one movement. It was difficult to see why I didn't fall over," explained Barnes in his autobiography, making the sublime seem simple.

And there were many more moments like this during those heady days. There were pirouettes and escape acts; clever backheels; brave backheels; poacher's goals; perfectly-weighted assists; wonderfully-executed free-kicks and examples of Barnes's unheralded strength in the air. He was ostensibly a left-footed player but you would never know it. Left foot or right foot, the end product was the same. Liverpool purred to two league titles and an FA Cup with Barnes as the metronome drifting infield from a starting position on the left when other wingers of the day would be instructed to stay wide.

The high watermark for Barnes and Liverpool came in the 5-0 defeat of Brian Clough's third-placed Nottingham Forest on 13 April 1988 of which the legendary England winger Tom Finney said: "In all my time as a player and a spectator, that was the finest exhibition of football I've ever seen." And at the heart of it all was Barnes, applying the flashes of genius to a Liverpool masterpiece that brought them within grasp of a 17th league title. The ability to find his way back from the corner flag with a nutmeg and feint before laying on Liverpool's fourth still takes the breath away. It's little wonder Barnes won both the Players' Player of the Year award and the Football Writers' equivalent that season.

The dark years approach
But Barnes was reaching his peak at a time when the English game was heading for oblivion. The European ban had taken its toll on the quality of English football with Liverpool's style – that had been formulated many years before and passed down like a family heirloom – the exception rather than the rule. And Hillsborough was the tipping point. It hit English football hard. Liverpool hardest of all. Barnes pulled out of an England game after the disaster and, like many Liverpool players who witnessed the horrific scenes at the Leppings Lane End on 15 April 1989, attended a heartbreaking and soul-sapping number of funerals, which understandably led to him having a more reflective view about the importance of football.

He still played a huge part in Liverpool's defeat of Everton in the FA Cup final that season , providing a trademark bending cross for Ian Rush to head home Liverpool's extra-time winner, thus helping to provide the smallest sense of normality to Liverpool fans who were struggling to find any relief in a city paralysed by grief. The season would end on a sour note for Barnes when it was his attacking mentality that led to him losing possession in the final minute of the title decider against Arsenal. Having taken the ball towards the right corner flag, Barnes chose to try to attack the goal instead of defend possession as he would do in later years – perhaps with this moment in mind. Kevin Richardson robbed him of the ball and Arsenal mounted one last attack, allowing Michael Thomas to score that goal, denying Liverpool the double. Barnes was a broken man at the final whistle. His body would match his emotions in the seasons that followed.

Liverpool's decline post-Hillsborough coincided with Barnes's physical deterioration and ill fortune. At the 1990 World Cup Barnes, rather than David Platt, could have been England's hero against Belgium, having had a perfectly good volleyed goal disallowed. But soon after he sustained a groin injury that ended his tournament. A troublesome hamstring injury followed that limited him to only a handful of appearances in 1991-92. And after recovering at the end of the season a ruptured right achilles tendon – again sustained in an England shirt before Euro 92 – effectively ended his career as a winger. Barnes was left with a six-inch scar and a calf muscle an inch and a half shorter than his left.

The rebirth
Shorn of pace, Barnes suffered impatience and abuse from the stands. The appalling boos that greeted his every touch for England against San Marino at Wembley in February 1993 could have ruined less thick-skinned footballers. But he had survived racist abuse on and off the pitch through the 1980s with incredible dignity and instead he took stock of his remaining attributes and reinvented himself as a deep-lying central midfielder.

That he could do this was no surprise to anyone who had witnessed his ability to join up play when drifting central during the late 80s. He was a thinking-man's footballer who had been blessed with a talent to impact the game from wide areas. And his ability to maintain equilibrium in the most fraught situations – in much the same way as Zinedine Zidane – made him perfectly equipped to move infield and influence the game from deep.

But even here Barnes was playing a role that had not yet come to be appreciated. A ball-hogging midfielder – Barnes regularly gained possession over 100 times in 90 minutes and rarely let a pass go stray – would be heralded after the millennium. But in the 90s fans wanted more direct passes and bombastic gestures. The Premier League brand was built around bursts of excitement and had no time for a player who believed patience and possession were the foundations upon which a successful football team could be built.

If Barnes was telling a story when he had the ball, he never wasted a word. The ball kissed his feet and left as quickly as it came. Jamie Carragher said in all his time training with Barnes he never saw him lose possession once. This may be an exaggeration, but anyone who ever witnessed his mid-90s displays under Roy Evans would not be surprised if this were true. Even when he scored goals from distance they were calculated passes into the net.

Under Evans Liverpool played some of – if not the most – attractive football of the 90s. Manchester United were direct and dominant, with the most effective blend of physicality, speed and ruthlessness. But Liverpool's "Spice Boys" were the decadent pretenders and pleasing on the eye, regularly passing teams to death with Barnes directing each short, sharp blow as they did so. There were still flashes of the old Barnes in the new rebuilt version, such as his sublime scissor-kick at Blackburn, but his brilliance was now more considered and although he never reached the heights of the late 80s, not many wingers could adapt their game so successfully after such debilitating injuries. Imagine a crocked and rebuilt Cristiano Ronaldo deputising for Xabi Alonso, or Marc Overmars playing the Edgar Davids role for Barcelona instead of retiring through injury in 2004.

In a talented but ultimately flawed team it is testament to Barnes that he could still be so effective. Even in his mid-30s, with a thicker waist and a few more rings within those aged tree-trunk thighs he successfully directed traffic in Liverpool's midfield. "Barnes … Rush … Barnes … still John Barnes … Collymore closing iiiiin!" is an enduring second career highlight.

He earned one England call-up in his new role, against Colombia in 1995 – a match more memorable for René Higuita's scorpion-kick – but his attributes in a central role would soon be deemed ineffective. He left Liverpool in 1997 after 407 appearances in which he scored 106 goals, with Jamie Redknapp considered to be the better option as a playmaker alongside Paul Ince, who was brought in to supply the energy that fans and Evans believed was the "last piece in the Liverpool jigsaw".

At 34 Barnes was not energetic (he hadn't been for some time) but neither was he ineffective. Replacing Barnes with Ince didn't work and showed the kind of backwards thinking that was still prevalent in English football in the 1990s. Gladiatorial charges forward and aggression were still in vogue. Not till Claude Makélelé began to boss games for Chelsea with his clever reading of play and recycling of possession, was the holding player truly valued in the English top flight.

He would score six more goals as an auxiliary forward at Newcastle under Kenny Dalglish before his career wound down at Charlton in 1999.

A part of Barnes must rue being born into an era in which he was stifled at international level and denied the chance to showcase his talents at Europe's top table. But Barnes was a one-off: a beautiful and brave footballer of frightening talent who probably arrived too early. It's scary to think of how good Barnes could be in the 4-2-3-1 formation so loved by modern-day managers – whether as a winger, a playmaker or the holding player he later became.

Barnes should be remembered as one of the greatest British footballers; perhaps running George Best close for the title of most naturally talented, with Paul Gascoigne for company. That successive England managers failed to get the best out of him is indicative of the lack of imagination and flexibility that has held the England team back for so long.

English football was lucky to have him.

and an excellent highlights video, which should demonstrate why I'm so convinced he'd work brilliantly with Cruyff:

 
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Whilst Pat's side is really good, OneNil's side is quite tough to stop as there are 3 proper playmakers in that team to stop: Didi, Socrates, and Messi (compared to Scholes and Cruyff for Pat). Socrates and Messi's movement is excellent, and whilst Pat's defence is quite solid, Both Socrates and Messi are comfortable either out wide and through the middle. This allows for a synergistic relationship between Socrates and Messi that can really be decisive. On top of that, Didi at the back is a perfect foil for both to run their natural game just as Falcao was for Socrates and Zico at the 1982 World Cup.

I really struggle to see how all 3 of them can really be prevented from influencing the game if not taking control of it. Overall, both teams are quite similar in their structure, but the little details in OneNil's team pull me towards his team.
 
I can't deny that the team wasn't built with Cruyff in mind though, given that I only picked him up unexpectedly in the final round of drafting. I built it around maximising the goalscoring talents of Spencer, and I think I've done that well enough.

That said, I don't see much reason why Cruyff wouldn't do well in this set up. His Holland team had plenty of variety in their attacking style including a fair amount of crosses into the box - it wasn't all intricate, eye of a needle passing around the penalty area by any means.

He's also played behind a CF to fine effect before, so that aspect won't be alien to him.

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@Pat_Mustard Maybe if you go with midfield 3, with Desailly at the base, would give the team a better grip of the game. With Desailly can go to center defence when needed.

Tardelli --- Scholes
-------Desailly--
 
@Pat_Mustard Maybe if you go with midfield 3, with Desailly at the base, would give the team a better grip of the game. With Desailly can go to center defence when needed.

Tardelli --- Scholes
-------Desailly--
True, a mean counter-attacking setup would suit that side better.

Surprised you of all people would want Cruyff off though :eek:
 
True, a mean counter-attacking setup would suit that side better.

Surprised you of all people would want Cruyff off though :eek:

Was thinking of putting Cruyff slightly to the left, and bench Barnes.
 
Was thinking of putting Cruyff slightly to the left, and bench Barnes.
Nah IMO Cruyff is better where it is so that he's more influential to the game.

What I'd change is probably swap Hierro with Desailly. Desailly/Kohler IMO is a better fit to handle onenil forwards while Hierro is a good fit to Socrates, while with his technical ability gives more control to the middle with Scholes and Cruyff there.
 
Was thinking of putting Cruyff slightly to the left, and bench Barnes.
I figured right after I wrote that :lol:

I probably rate Barnes higher than most. Back then I didn't have tinted glasses, he was just a fecking great player.
 
Nice to see Barnes get some overdue recognition. He was a superb player in the First Division, was clearly Liverpool's best player for many years and it's a pity he never really had a chance to shine in Europe. That said, I'd have liked to have seen him light up a major international tournament. On one hand I'm not sure Robson and Taylor were ever that great at embracing creative players like him, Hoddle and Waddle. On the other, many of the very greatest still forced their ability to shine despite questionable tactics or management.
 
I've gone for Pat. OneNil is too centrally orientated and could get bogged down trying to break down Pat's deep defence - this is one of the reasons why Pep has brought the back the traditional winger to open up more space in the middle to break the deep defence. With one genuine wide player I'd have bought OneNil's set-up but not as it stands. Also I can definitively see a goals on the counter with Cruyff and the wingers being provided be Scholes and Hierro. I also think Hierro at CB is a good call for distribution reasons, Desially is better as a DM destroyer.
 
Desailly as a midfield destroyer is pretty much ideal to deal with onenils offense. The only way to minimize the damage they'd do would be to shut down the supply lines and that is Desaillys bread and butter, one of the best ever in that regard at least for a modern tactic. I rate him even higher as a destroyer than as a centre back and from what I watched he was just so destructive. Touches against Barcelona 93-94.

I remember counting interceptions and tackles in one game, can't recall which, and he had some stupid numbers at the end of the game.

Would have liked to see Scholes-Desailly-Tardelli in the middle though but at the same time I can't see Pat edging a fantastic onenil side no matter how he lines up and with considered he did the right thing promoting Spencer and Barnes.
 
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Pat's team would have been semi-final (or even final) worthy in most other drafts and it's getting a thorough spanking in here. Amazing!

Neither Messi nor Henry are wingers in traditional sense and Maldini/Burgnich's ability to squeeze in will cut in their ability to drift to middle. It really is a fantastic defence.

But then Onenil's team is just :drool:
 
It's not Henry or Messi, but that man up front tearing it apart. With the amount of service in behind him he can't really be stopped. Also Henry's runs towards goal will invite a lot of Messi's trademark lobs. It's rather well constructed not to mention Henry and Messi actually played on the left and right of a front three and along with Eto'o the three of them scored a century of goals, or close to it as far as I remember. Now there's Ronaldo in there.
 
Pat's team would have been semi-final (or even final) worthy in most other drafts and it's getting a thorough spanking in here. Amazing!

Neither Messi nor Henry are wingers in traditional sense and Maldini/Burgnich's ability to squeeze in will cut in their ability to drift to middle. It really is a fantastic defence.

But then Onenil's team is just :drool:

Great players all around and the only weakness in general is the centre back partnerships lacking top class aerial ability. Pat has that Matthews vs Nilton/Spencer factor going for him in that regard that would pull some heavy load here and on their own keep him in the game. I see a solid onenil win nevertheless.
 
Great players all around and the only weakness in general is the centre back partnerships lacking top class aerial ability. Pat has that Matthews vs Nilton/Spencer factor going for him in that regard that would pull some heavy load here and on their own keep him in the game. I see a solid onenil win nevertheless.
I always thought that Santamaria was great in the air, must've read it somewhere, wasn't he? His height is a little suspect (1,79m), with Chumpitaz also being quite short (and not having Cannavaro-esque leap, despite not being particularly weak in the air)