Bill Cosby | Guilty

George Owen said:
If one of the jurors is a big Bill Cosby fan, he can say "innocent" even if the proof of guilty is blatant?
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I'm pretty sure that being a big Cosby fan is a disclosure that will disqualify one from jury duty.
 
Giggs86 said:
I'm pretty sure that being a big Cosby fan is a disclosure that will disqualify one from jury duty.
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But how would they ever find out someone is being honest?

Lets say some of the jurors used to watch Cosby when he was younger and looked up to him. How would the courts guarantee that they're being honest if the only way they can judge that criteria of bias is by hoping that person is telling the truth?
 
Freedom Aluteni said:
I think we can all agree Cosby did it, proving it beyond reasonable doubt in a court of law is another matter. This is why it's important for society to always encourage people to report sexual assault as soon as possible.
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Trial by internet forum.
 
JustAFan said:
Humans, being human means any juror could find a reason to say not guilty. But then again decisions by judges are not infallible either, humans being human.
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The American jury system I think works good with no known people, but with celebrities it doesn't work. The evidence should be enough in those cases.
 
George Owen said:
Isn't the word of 59 women against him not enough?

Surely a lot of people has been convicted with less?
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Yes, however; too many of those women come off as greedy vultures jumping on a bandwagon. The quantity is not necessarily deciding if there there are lack of verifications or proof on too many of the amount of cases. With that said, it is still extremley shocking even if it was only 20, or 10, or 5 victims. Surely there should be another trial.
 
I would love to say i'm shocked, but i'm not.

Conviction rates when it comes to assault committed against women is pathetically low.
 
George Owen said:
Isn't the word of 59 women against him not enough?

Surely a lot of people has been convicted with less?
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This trial did not involve 59 women as most of those fall outside the statutes of limitations. It only dealt with one particular case for which the evidence wasn't clear cut.
 
vi1lain said:
I would love to say i'm shocked, but i'm not.

Conviction rates when it comes to assault committed against women is pathetically low.
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It is, but the only way this is going to improve is to encourage women to come forward as soon as they can. It's not much use in this instance obviously since the cases are years old, but generally speaking. They can't convict on shaky evidence, which is unfortunately prevalent in rape and sexual assault cases where there's usually no witnesses and one word versus another.
 
2 Man Midfield said:
It is, but the only way this is going to improve is to encourage women to come forward as soon as they can. It's not much use in this instance obviously since the cases are years old, but generally speaking. They can't convict on shaky evidence, which is unfortunately prevalent in rape and sexual assault cases where there's usually no witnesses and one word versus another.
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Even with evidence the general attitude towards sexual assault isn't going to give women (and men) the confidence to come forward straight away, and considering the trauma i'm not surprised most choose to go within themselves and remain quiet - especially given that most rapists target victims they know, therefore as the victim you know that there's the possibility of coming across your abuser again.
Young girls are seen as being up for it, therefore couldn't possibly have been raped. Men are given benefit of doubt almost every time. And if it involves a high profile male then the assumption is that he doesn't need to rape this woman because he can have anyone he wants, therefore the woman should be lucky etc.
All this rhetoric just fuels dangerous attitudes towards sexual abuse.
 
It would kinda help if America ended its longstanding tradition of selling the famous to us as if these people, flawed like most humans, were either icons of perfection and/or gods we should idolise & imitate. Cosby was never "America's dad"' nor should he have been promoted as such. Trump-as-President is the inevitable culmination of this idiocy: effectively a tv wrestler pointing at the camera, adorned with the good ol' stars n' stripes, swearing to smite anyone who stands in the way of his personal glory; he was sold to the public, and vast numbers of victims of American culture readily bought the whole, empty package.
 
SfcNervion said:
Yes, however; too many of those women come off as greedy vultures jumping on a bandwagonl.
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This is how power attempts to undermine the credilibity of victims, an attitude too many of us are persuaded to adopt: "They're only in it for the money".
 
There was a man fist pumping behind the woman making the statement.
The man is an embarrassment. One would think he was a civil rights activist.
 
SteveJ said:
This is how power attempts to undermine the credilibity of victims, an attitude too many of us are persuaded to adopt: "They're only in it for the money".
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Not that I am convinced that he is innocent, yet I am not entirely convinced of him being guilty. As a sidenote: I am always suspicious of the American court system, both when it is favoured towards celebrities, and in cases where it is the opposite, as well as in cases where it involves people that represents the minorities. There are too many sideline factors that have big influence on the outcome. How the judge is influenced by handling a celebrity, as well as what kind of people that are representing the jury.
 
Adisa said:
There was a man fist pumping behind the woman making the statement.
The man is an embarrassment. One would think he was a civil rights activist.
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That was his lawyer. Should they have mourned?

If my name was dragged through the mug, a fist pump would be a minor footnote in the list of things I'd do after acquittal in an actual, non "court of public opinion" court.
 
vi1lain said:
Even with evidence the general attitude towards sexual assault isn't going to give women (and men) the confidence to come forward straight away, and considering the trauma i'm not surprised most choose to go within themselves and remain quiet - especially given that most rapists target victims they know, therefore as the victim you know that there's the possibility of coming across your abuser again.
Young girls are seen as being up for it, therefore couldn't possibly have been raped. Men are given benefit of doubt almost every time. And if it involves a high profile male then the assumption is that he doesn't need to rape this woman because he can have anyone he wants, therefore the woman should be lucky etc.
All this rhetoric just fuels dangerous attitudes towards sexual abuse.
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I don't doubt the rest of your post but does the bolded really happen? You seem to be inferring this is part of the reason for the low conviction rate among celebrities. I haven't seen anyone claiming any women would be lucky to be raped by X because he's famous for instance. Not saying it hasn't happened, I genuinely don't know.
 
2 Man Midfield said:
I don't doubt the rest of your post but does the bolded really happen? By which I mean is this part of the reason men for the low conviction rate? I haven't seen anyone claiming any women would be lucky to be raped by X because he's famous for instance. Not saying it hasn't happened, I genuinely don't know.
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Oh it happens for sure, it even happened with Cosby - people decided because of his celebrity some of these women (girls at the time) wanted to be around him, wanted to be famous, saw an opportunity, wanted to sleep with a celebrity etc.
Also they waited too long, and now all they want is money and fame. R.Kelly is a similar example off the top of my head.
 
vi1lain said:
Oh it happens for sure, it even happened with Cosby - people decided because of his celebrity some of these women (girls at the time) wanted to be around him, wanted to be famous, saw an opportunity, wanted to sleep with a celebrity etc.
Also they waited too long, and now all they want is money and fame. R.Kelly is a similar example off the top of my head.
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How do you think this contributes to the cases falling short of a conviction though? Surely any such vile logic is thankfully lacking from a court room?
 
2 Man Midfield said:
How do you think this contributes to the cases falling short of a conviction though? Surely any such vile logic is thankfully lacking from a court room?
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You would hope so, but when there's a jury presiding over the case there's always the chance for such a mindset to sink in. In the r kelly case I think it was 10 men and 2 women who took a few hours to decide he wasn't guilty on any of the 10+ charges filed against him, even with video evidence 10+ witnesses who identified the girl in the video, plus another witness who claimed to have engaged in a threesome.
They all decided that the victim was lying and r kelly was completely innocent, the defence even went on to discredit the victim.
When you're a male celebrity its expected that you sleep around often, and on the other side when you're a woman who's seen as having sex often your morals are called into question.
 
vi1lain said:
Oh it happens for sure, it even happened with Cosby - people decided because of his celebrity some of these women (girls at the time) wanted to be around him, wanted to be famous, saw an opportunity, wanted to sleep with a celebrity etc.
Also they waited too long, and now all they want is money and fame. R.Kelly is a similar example off the top of my head.
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The problem being some women do actually claim sexual assault/rape to gain fame and/or large civil court settlements. It boils down to a 'he said' v 'she said', which is difficult, especially years after the event without forensics

vi1lain said:
You would hope so, but when there's a jury presiding over the case there's always the chance for such a mindset to sink in. In the r kelly case I think it was 10 men and 2 women who took a few hours to decide he wasn't guilty on any of the 10+ charges filed against him, even with video evidence 10+ witnesses who identified the girl in the video, plus another witness who claimed to have engaged in a threesome.
They all decided that the victim was lying and r kelly was completely innocent, the defence even went on to discredit the victim.
When you're a male celebrity its expected that you sleep around often, and on the other side when you're a woman who's seen as having sex often your morals are called into question.
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I haven't read that case and it sounds ridiculous but the layman can be ignorant. Generally though men tend to have more sympathy with the female and women are more critical of her.

R Kelly does seem to be pretty prolific in his preferences

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/r-kelly-sex-abuse-allegations_us_56797582e4b06fa6887eb270

Talking about celebrities the Tyson rape case, the evidence actually does paint Tyson as a rapist if you read it and the judge often ruled in his favour, such as not disclosing testimony of Tyson sexually assaulting his female driver on the same night. But Tyson's team did a great propoganda job painting the victim as a money grabber and the judge racially discriminating against him. If you ever ask about the case on a boxing board they all believe he was innocent and you'll hear mysoginy pouring out about the victim.
 
kps88 said:
This trial did not involve 59 women as most of those fall outside the statutes of limitations. It only dealt with one particular case for which the evidence wasn't clear cut.
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I don't think most actual read the articles.

The trial wasn't "Is Bill Cosby a r4pist". It was 'Did Cosby r4pe this woman'. The woman in question fudged her testimony, declaring that she'd never been alone with Cosby before the night in question. She had, twice. That there is enough to put doubt in at least one jurors mind.

I'm sure that Cosby has r4ped people. It seemed to have been an open secret within Hollywood. I'm sure that he'll get his comeuppance.

::::

A point of reference for all when it comes to the sleeping pill use though... I hooked up with a girl a few years back. Got back to her place and she said 'Take this'. I swallowed the pill without hesitation. Then asked whether it was E, Viagra, something else. Turns out the 'something else' was a light benzo. By all accounts this is what ol Billy Boy handed out like candy. Now I was 100% going to sleep with this girl but in no way was I the full ticket when it went down. If those roles were reversed there's every chance she could have felt I'd drugged her for a purpose.

Cosby may have given countless women drugs without them knowing, some took them willingly by the sounds of it, some were pressured into it. He may have r4ped hundreds of women. It may have been 30. I'm sure all of the women have a valid case, I'd like to believe so. The use of drugs isn't necessarily a black & white issue though.
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
The problem being some women do actually claim sexual assault/rape to gain fame and/or large civil court settlements. It boils down to a 'he said' v 'she said', which is difficult, especially years after the event without forensics



I haven't read that case and it sounds ridiculous but the layman can be ignorant. Generally though men tend to have more sympathy with the female and women are more critical of her.

R Kelly does seem to be pretty prolific in his preferences

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/r-kelly-sex-abuse-allegations_us_56797582e4b06fa6887eb270

Talking about celebrities the Tyson rape case, the evidence actually does paint Tyson as a rapist if you read it and the judge often ruled in his favour, such as not disclosing testimony of Tyson sexually assaulting his female driver on the same night. But Tyson's team did a great propoganda job painting the victim as a money grabber and the judge racially discriminating against him. If you ever ask about the case on a boxing board they all believe he was innocent and you'll hear mysoginy pouring out about the victim.
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What's interesting about the Tyson rape case is that Bill Cosby's daughter accused Tyson of raping her years before, and told Cosby about it.
Cosby told her not to go to the police and asked Tyson to receive counselling instead. She ignored her dad's wishes.
Cosby then began to discredit his daughter and call her a liar, and not to be trusted etc.
In the same time period (late 80s/early 90s) Cosby was being accused of sexual assault by multiple women, who he called untrustworthy liars, with poor judgement etc.
Years later Tyson was convicted on multiple charges of sexual assault, Cosby still continues to call everyone else a liar though.
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
Talking about celebrities the Tyson rape case, the evidence actually does paint Tyson as a rapist if you read it and the judge often ruled in his favour, such as not disclosing testimony of Tyson sexually assaulting his female driver on the same night. But Tyson's team did a great propoganda job painting the victim as a money grabber and the judge racially discriminating against him. If you ever ask about the case on a boxing board they all believe he was innocent and you'll hear mysoginy pouring out about the victim.
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Not to mention the accusations levelled against Tyson by Teddy Atlas when they were both at Catskills that Tyson doesn't even really bother denying.

That said, Tyson's fans are utterly deluded when it comes to their hero's ability, achievements and character.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Not to mention the accusations levelled against Tyson by Teddy Atlas when they were both at Catskills that Tyson doesn't even really bother denying.

That said, Tyson's fans are utterly deluded when it comes to their hero's ability, achievements and character.
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In terms of prime ability and dominating the 80s division I don't think he has many peers. His decline was significant though as was his lack of plan B and adjustments.
 
Cnut.
Usually cautious of sexual accusations and the rush to label people guilty but too many women have experience this cnut.
 
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