We need a total reset, but it will take 3-4 years. Not a single player in the squad today will lift the premier league trophy with United. Its vital we start the rebuild by getting Ten Hag and move Ragnick upstairs.
Biggest Summer Reset Ever?
- Thread starter UnitedFire
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss three 1-1 draws.
The first got us knocked out of the FA Cup, the next puts us in a good position in our Round of 16 Europa League game, and the latest was an actual decent performance against Arsenal at Old Trafford.
All hopes for the season now rest on the Europa League - does Amorim have the squad to win it?
Think they have to tear the team to pieces yet again. Make sure they know which route they are going down and recruit players that fit from academy level to first team level. I would love them to get players with technical ability not just physical specimens. Look into their mentality and background. Defenders who are comfortable on the ball and are not scared when challenged. A midfield who can pass the ball, but can put in hard challenges. People who teams will think twice about running at. Wide men who can run at teams, comfortable on the ball and have that vital final pass in them. A prolific goalscorer who puts the fear of god into the opposition when he gets the ball. I don't ask for much really.
It will take time, but if fans can see where we are going they can deal with that. We need to get rid of the whingers who are too interested in their own image rather than the fortunes of the team.
Fans will tolerate a few bad years if the fotball is good and the players work their socks off. When Klopp joined Liverpool you could see his vision, and they played attractive fotball from the start, but his point accumulation wasnt that good. If Ten Hag would do similar with United in the start, the fans will love him.
But other than Pogba the players who are leaving for free don’t play, Mata, Cavani, Lingard barely kick a ball. Martial and DVB aren’t even at the club.
A reset mean getting rid of the real problems, the players on the pitch week in week out. It’s looking at all your highly paid, expensive players, those with big social media followings and who you let advertise for your sponsors. That’s where all the focus needs to be not on the players just making up the numbers, can a new manager offload any of Rashford, Maguire , Shaw, DDG, Mct, Ronaldo if they want to.
Mata can stay of go and it won’t make of a blind bit of difference but whether to stick or twist with players like I mentioned will be what makes or breaks the next manager.
Definitely or probably leaving:
Cavani
Ronaldo
Greenwood
Martial*
Rashford*
Pogba
Mata
Matic
Lingard
Bailly
Henderson
That’s a hell of a lot of players leaving. You know full well we aren’t getting more than 3 in the door though.
*Both want out and we should allow it but with so many exits we probably can’t afford to lose them.
Cavani
Ronaldo
Greenwood
Martial*
Rashford*
Pogba
Mata
Matic
Lingard
Bailly
Henderson
That’s a hell of a lot of players leaving. You know full well we aren’t getting more than 3 in the door though.
*Both want out and we should allow it but with so many exits we probably can’t afford to lose them.
Fred and MCT must also both be sold this summer. Or only be kept as back up reserves to proper CM’s. Add them to the list.
Exactly. I want us on the front foot, not sitting back hoping for a mistake, that might never happen and you have to be able to take advantage of those mistakes.
Good post and I agree with you in almost every way. I would add Rashford to that list. Looking at this group of players the staggering fact is that despite the enormous salary cost United are paying this lot the returns on that investment must be the worst in modern football by a longshoot. There is no way around this matter, the squad is full of substandard players and it´s going to be interesting to see how things unfold in the coming months. How long will it also be before the next wave of Glazer protests will start? That can not be far away.
A good point in your initial sentence, though Cavani should be added. That is a fear, though some fairly big names on paper, not on pitch and as we have a squad of 36 it is only trimming an overblown squad to one of the right size.
The hope is a few of the playes soundign unhappy wish to leave too
Definately need a reset. Several players been here far too long, but we have given most contract extensions which is madness.
But regardless of the numbers, we have to get the right positions sorted and the right positions.
I think the last window was good if we had of signed a couple fo central midfielders too, but beyond that, have to go back five years for the last good window, the first of Mourinhos.
In between those two windows we have spent an incredible £500m+ on transfers on sixteen players and can say out of those only Bissaka and Sanchez ironically excited me as signings at the time and we way overpaid for both of them before they failed to perform.
Over £200m on Maguire, Fred and Lakaku alone always was and is abdolutely ludcicrous
But regardless of the numbers, we have to get the right positions sorted and the right positions.
I think the last window was good if we had of signed a couple fo central midfielders too, but beyond that, have to go back five years for the last good window, the first of Mourinhos.
In between those two windows we have spent an incredible £500m+ on transfers on sixteen players and can say out of those only Bissaka and Sanchez ironically excited me as signings at the time and we way overpaid for both of them before they failed to perform.
Over £200m on Maguire, Fred and Lakaku alone always was and is abdolutely ludcicrous
I'm quite surprised that some fans still don't think we need a complete reset from top to bottom.
The thing is we really need to sell Henderson, Martial and Rashford to generate approx £100m. That will allow us to get 2/3 players and say a conservative summer budget of £50m, I can only see a max of 4 players coming in.
We need to get a ST, RW, CDM, RB at the minimum. So 4 transfers wont even do anything to our team really.
It’s crazy to think we are most likely going to lose pretty much our whole attack in the summer:
Ronaldo
Cavani
Lingard
Martial
Greenwood (already gone)
Leaving us with
Rashford
Elanga
Sancho
Mata
Literally every area of the pitch has become a priority.
Ronaldo
Cavani
Lingard
Martial
Greenwood (already gone)
Leaving us with
Rashford
Elanga
Sancho
Mata
Literally every area of the pitch has become a priority.
I am still struggling to get my head round the fact we paid more for Harry Maguire than Liverpool did for VVD.
If Maguire, Rashford and AWB are still here next season, and our midfield remains the same with McFred, there will be no reset. In fact I think we might just find ourselves in a relegation fight.
Isn't Mata out of contract? If yes you can add him to the top list.It’s crazy to think we are most likely going to lose pretty much our whole attack in the summer:
Ronaldo
Cavani
Lingard
Martial
Greenwood (already gone)
Leaving us with
Rashford
Elanga
Sancho
Mata
Literally every area of the pitch has become a priority.
Unbelievable. Normally you need a front 6 in the squad. We are barely going to have 3 to put in. Elanga literally walks into our starting lineup next season. How did we end up in that position!
To be fair they're not exactly comparable in the sense that Liverpool had spent 6 months tapping VVD up to the point he'd literally been at Melwood twice in July & we were buying Maguire from a considerably richer club than Southampton.
I take the point generally because it's obviously ridiculous but ultimately that was a case of both clubs only being interested in one specific player and Liverpool taking a below board approach (yet still having to pay a fortune) and United taking the above board approach (and getting rinsed).
If we had done what Liverpool did with regards Maguire I would be committing our board to an asylum. VVD is a Rolls Royce of a defender. Maguire is a clapped out Volvo.
We all blame the board but fans are to blame. 3 years on and as fans we are still going on about how much we paid for Maguire.
Do you think Chelsea fans are talking about Kepa, Lukaku? No they realised its a mistake and move on, just like their board do.
United board and fans are similar, hung up on transfers from 3 years ago and comparisons, without any context.
I've explained why the situations weren't comparable and you go on to continue comparing. Brilliantly done.
We've been in that status for years. We've been rotten since Moyes.
Hardly Ole's fault
Still seeing fans blaming this manager or that manager...odd that after the last 10 years it is still all the managers fault ay?
This.
Chelsea just dont play Kepa, they find a way to play without Lukaku.
We insist on playing Maguire, seemingly cos he cost a lot of money. We just dont learn or do the basics right.
The amount of players who cant get a start for Liverpool, City, Chelsea who would absolutely walk into our x11 is staggering, yet we insist on keeping Jones and Lingard around for "re-sale value" and continually start McTominey cos he "tries his best". We dont hold ourselves to any form of standard and it's abysmal
Jones, Lingard, Pogba, Martial and possibly Ronaldo leaving is only good for team morale. I actually thought CR will have quite the opposite impact on our team spirit, but I was wrong about him on many levels.
Cavani and Greenwood is just out of our hands and we will miss both, although I'm not sure if Cavani is even our player right now.
Letting van de Beek go in current midfield situation will be a big mistake.
I don't blame anyone for current situation, in the hindsight getting Ronaldo and not getting DM was a huge mistake, but I can understand why we took that risk with CR. Our forwards situation (Greenwood and Rashford in particular) was impossible to predict. Pogba situation is not in club hands. Lingard and Jones should be gone and I don't understand why are they still here.
I am looking forward to the reset. We should focus on building a team long term and scrap short term solutions (Ronaldo, Cavani, giving Pogba a bit fat paycheck etc).
Cavani and Greenwood is just out of our hands and we will miss both, although I'm not sure if Cavani is even our player right now.
Letting van de Beek go in current midfield situation will be a big mistake.
I don't blame anyone for current situation, in the hindsight getting Ronaldo and not getting DM was a huge mistake, but I can understand why we took that risk with CR. Our forwards situation (Greenwood and Rashford in particular) was impossible to predict. Pogba situation is not in club hands. Lingard and Jones should be gone and I don't understand why are they still here.
I am looking forward to the reset. We should focus on building a team long term and scrap short term solutions (Ronaldo, Cavani, giving Pogba a bit fat paycheck etc).
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Where do you even begin? There is so much wrong.
the only players I would keep for sure are DDG, Sancho & Elanga. Everyone else can go.
Bruno I guess as well but I’m getting a bit tired of his hissy fits lately.
the only players I would keep for sure are DDG, Sancho & Elanga. Everyone else can go.
Bruno I guess as well but I’m getting a bit tired of his hissy fits lately.
To be fair, at the time there was a lot of derision on here and in general the fee they paid for VVD. I readuly admit I thought he was a good defender with talent but would never justify the fee, very wrong there. I didnt think he was any better than Maguire at the time, wouldnt have signed either, especially for the fee....how wrong we can be.
The Maguire fee was astonishing though when there were a few good and very good options all considerably cheaper
What I was getting at was VVD being the very best defender out there and you can understand then going a bit underhand to get him. Nevermind I am tying myself in knots.
It's not all doom and gloom.
Leavers on free: Pogba, Ronaldo, Cavani, Lingard. Let's be honest with ourselves here, Pogba has been utter wank for 80% of his time here. Ronaldo had us dreaming a bit and yelling Siuuuuu for a while. And yes, the beautiful Cavani had us jumping off our seats a couple of times.
Not good enough. Any of them.
Selling: Rashford, Martial, Henderson. Good. Could get 30 for Rash, 20 for Tony and 15 for Dean.
If we could get something for Jones, a fiver would be nice.
Also, if anyone is dumb enough to buy Maguire off us, that would be swell. Sell him for 30?
Promote Mata to some sort of managerial/marketing place, he's a likeable guy, i'd want him to stay.
Send Matić off to the retirement home. Sell him for peanuts. I don't care, he's way past it.
And Greenwood is off the books.
That leaves us with:
DDG
AWB (Dalot) Varane Lindelof Shaw (Telles)
New CM New DM
Sancho Bruno New winger
New CF New CF
That's roughly 6 new players.
Priorities should be a world class Center Forward in his prime and a world class Midfielder.
That's down to 2 major ones.
If we sell what we can, we could get a purse of 60. Add 60 to that and thats not bad.
And our salary fees will be a lot smaller.
It's doable.
Leavers on free: Pogba, Ronaldo, Cavani, Lingard. Let's be honest with ourselves here, Pogba has been utter wank for 80% of his time here. Ronaldo had us dreaming a bit and yelling Siuuuuu for a while. And yes, the beautiful Cavani had us jumping off our seats a couple of times.
Not good enough. Any of them.
Selling: Rashford, Martial, Henderson. Good. Could get 30 for Rash, 20 for Tony and 15 for Dean.
If we could get something for Jones, a fiver would be nice.
Also, if anyone is dumb enough to buy Maguire off us, that would be swell. Sell him for 30?
Promote Mata to some sort of managerial/marketing place, he's a likeable guy, i'd want him to stay.
Send Matić off to the retirement home. Sell him for peanuts. I don't care, he's way past it.
And Greenwood is off the books.
That leaves us with:
DDG
AWB (Dalot) Varane Lindelof Shaw (Telles)
New CM New DM
Sancho Bruno New winger
New CF New CF
That's roughly 6 new players.
Priorities should be a world class Center Forward in his prime and a world class Midfielder.
That's down to 2 major ones.
If we sell what we can, we could get a purse of 60. Add 60 to that and thats not bad.
And our salary fees will be a lot smaller.
It's doable.
I will keep saying the fact that Jose wanted him so badly the board bought him to show they were backing Ole and to annoy Jose.
Woodward and Arnold are still pushing the narrative that they have completed a cultural reset under Ole. Absolute joke, we have the most toxic and unbalanced squad in the entire league.
Arsenal's 3 games in hand are away Spurs, away Chelsea and home Liverpool. So I doubt the points gap is going to be 10.
And how many times after big defeats in recent times have we made such threads only for nothing major to change?
Yeh but do you think Chelsea fans still say.. I cannot believe we paid £70m for Kepa when Liverpool paid £60m for Allison? No, they say because we can.
If he costs alot of money and can't play, he shouldn't play, its that simple really.
I mean we have all seen from Lingard's body language and even when he has been given game time, its pointless really.
I would rather us use academy players than Lingard and Rashford at this point,
We need to be really, really smart this summer. In a weird way I’m sort of looking forward to us changing approach in the market.
Previously we had a bit of a scattergun approach where we’d see someone else doing well for another team, throw far too much money at his club and then copy and paste him into our team, asking him to repeat what he was doing before. There was no plan from year to year, and as such massive holes like the one in our midfield just go unsolved.
If we can now trust Ralf to select some players based on what he thinks we need for his system, we can pick these up a lot cheaper than all these other players with massive hype around them who we are buying when their stock is high. We need to buy cheaper players who will go into a system and make us better than the sum of their parts, which when you’re a club with the resources of United isn’t that difficult, you just need someone who knows what they’re doing. I just hope we listen to him.
It’s crazy to think we are most likely going to lose pretty much our whole attack in the summer:
Ronaldo
Cavani
Lingard
Martial
Greenwood (already gone)
Leaving us with
Rashford
Elanga
Sancho
Mata
Literally every area of the pitch has become a priority.
Yeah its scary if all the players out of contract and wanting to go do, we are left with Heaton as our back up keeper, the same defence minus maybe Bailly, McFred and that attack you mention plus Fernandes. To be fair Id happily be rid of pretty much all the names plus Rashford and Maguire, the only ones footballing wise would be sad to go would be Cavani but he is a year older so maybe not and Greenwood so for obvious other reasons again maybe not.
Id be sadder with several if they stay....but who comes in is paramount as from the little i have seen none of the youngsters look ready to be first eleven players though Elanga has done well and Hannibal is maybe the only one good enough but we just frustratingly dont know as Amad also is gifted footballer and he doesnt look ready yet
Correct, we need to be really good this window.
We not only need cheaper players, we need hungry players, not just the next thing. Sancho came to United after big seasons, thought he made it, started slow.
We need hungry to impress players, become the best.
For example, if we get ETH, I wouldn't mind him bringing Anthony because he suits his style where they load the left side so Sancho type player who is good and isolate the right wing and have someone who can beat a man.
Then we need to find players in the midfield who fit his system.
We just need to look at our full backs to realise how well players fit in the system. Dalot to AWB is 2 complete different play styles. Same with Telles and Shaw.
Liverpool bought a back up LB that does the identical role to Roberston. Liverpool have just signed a LW that is Mane replacement.
City signed Rodri to replace Fernandinho, identical players to fit the style.
We’ve had this idiotic policy, which appears to be set in stone, of only bringing in about 2 to 3 players per summer. This time around we need to be more ruthless and creative. There is an unusual amount of talented players available on a free transfer that could walk into our starting 11. Rudiger, Dembele, Kamara and Kessie to name some. If the club had the the type of long term vision big clubs should have, discussions would already be taking place with agents of these players and offers already put out there.
Of course all of this depends on whether things have actually changed under Murtough, I doubt they have, and it’s evidenced by the fact the club reportedly vetoed any signings until a new manager was appointed. This is one of many of our problems. The Club should have a vision of how they want the first team to play and then to appoint a manager who fits into those ideals and who could maximize the potential in the squad. What is likely to happen is that we’ll be too slow in appointing a new manager, will be behind in the transfer market and will only make 2 to 3 signings when in reality, we need at least 5 incomings.
Of course all of this depends on whether things have actually changed under Murtough, I doubt they have, and it’s evidenced by the fact the club reportedly vetoed any signings until a new manager was appointed. This is one of many of our problems. The Club should have a vision of how they want the first team to play and then to appoint a manager who fits into those ideals and who could maximize the potential in the squad. What is likely to happen is that we’ll be too slow in appointing a new manager, will be behind in the transfer market and will only make 2 to 3 signings when in reality, we need at least 5 incomings.
Reset after reset . Reset Fc.
I don’t know what’s happened this season, we finished second last year and our recent transfers have been good business (Bruno, Sancho, Varane, Ronaldo) We should have kicked on.
Player unrest seems to be the main issue there’s no way the likes of Rashford etc are giving it all and it’s obvious Lingard, Pogba, Henderson and a few others want to leave it’s a big fecking mess.
I don’t know what’s happened this season, we finished second last year and our recent transfers have been good business (Bruno, Sancho, Varane, Ronaldo) We should have kicked on.
Player unrest seems to be the main issue there’s no way the likes of Rashford etc are giving it all and it’s obvious Lingard, Pogba, Henderson and a few others want to leave it’s a big fecking mess.
A big reset will demand a lot of money and the Glazers have no inclination for such a rebuild. No one is buying the players we need gone nor are they leaving their cushy contracts so we have to fund their replacements from internal sources, a real football club would get a new manager and find ways to finance a £300m rebuild in the summer where we buy up to five players. We won't and instead we will be fed some buzzword to replace 'cultural reboot'.