We had just won the title in 06/07, had one of the greatest, if not greatest managers of all time at the helm, had a fantastic squad with veterans and young players alike, a very successful summer shopping spree, and a player that would go on to score 42 goals that season. I think his name was Cristiano-something-or-other? But sure, I'll relax and "enjoy" the ride.
Best to write yesterday’s game off as irrelevant
- Thread starter Classical Mechanic
- Start date
We had just won the title in 06/07, had one of the greatest, if not greatest managers of all time at the helm, had a fantastic squad with veterans and young players alike, a very successful summer shopping spree, and a player that would go on to score 42 goals that season. I think his name was Cristiano-something-or-other? But sure, I'll relax and "enjoy" the ride.
This is precisely the attitude we should NOT have.
Yesterday's game was not irrelevant. It is a solid reflection of the state of our team, based on which we better improve in the transfer market, and in other football-related issues.
Loss was inexcusable but don't get the whole 'we shouldn't lose at home' angle during the 'rona. Only advantage is that our squad didn't have to travel to London and uses home facilities. No crowd and atmosphere advantage from Old Trafford.
How an earth can you write it off as irrelevant? Yes we lost the same fixture last season, yes we had a game less in preparation, yes there is the covid situation, yes there were a couple of players on the bench who wouldnt be due to isolation.....but these are excuses.
Did you see other sides looking as sloppy as us in there first games of the season? Every side have had the same problems of covid, part of our isolated players problem was due to there stupidity.
Yesterdays game was extremely relevant to where we are in my opinion, total opposite of irrelevant. We still have a world class keeper making foolish errors, we still have a centre back simply not good enough in Lindelof.....if Bailly isnt getting played ahead of him, sell him. We are playing TFM as our second right back....who isnt a right back. We still have a vastly over rated player in Pogba who for all his qualities is consistently sloppy. We still have no player to cover properly for Matic not playing, just 4 Pogbas role. We still have a second choice player back up for both wings who is a championship level player. We also have Fernandes who I believe is a very good player but isnt Eric Cantona as he appeared the first couple of months here, he isnt going to consistently keep putting in those performances, there will be many like the back end of last season despite his incredible work rate and desire.....I am not criticinsing in any way here, just saying we cant rely on Fernandes to perform or we dont week in week out, as that is currently the case.
We also as of the moment have TFM, Dalot, Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Perreira, Mata, Lingard......yet again no clearing of the deadwood.
Look at the business all the other top sides have done, we havent. VDB isnt a first team improving player of significance, is a great squad signing. But no left back cover, noo quality centre back partner for Maguire, nobody to compete with an ageing Matic, no quality second string players for the front three.
We may have finished fourth but there is so much work still needs to b edon ein and out and we have done little. This window could be an utter shambles. Anybody very confident of top four is mad. We will really struggle again to make the top four this season as things stand.
Did you see other sides looking as sloppy as us in there first games of the season? Every side have had the same problems of covid, part of our isolated players problem was due to there stupidity.
Yesterdays game was extremely relevant to where we are in my opinion, total opposite of irrelevant. We still have a world class keeper making foolish errors, we still have a centre back simply not good enough in Lindelof.....if Bailly isnt getting played ahead of him, sell him. We are playing TFM as our second right back....who isnt a right back. We still have a vastly over rated player in Pogba who for all his qualities is consistently sloppy. We still have no player to cover properly for Matic not playing, just 4 Pogbas role. We still have a second choice player back up for both wings who is a championship level player. We also have Fernandes who I believe is a very good player but isnt Eric Cantona as he appeared the first couple of months here, he isnt going to consistently keep putting in those performances, there will be many like the back end of last season despite his incredible work rate and desire.....I am not criticinsing in any way here, just saying we cant rely on Fernandes to perform or we dont week in week out, as that is currently the case.
We also as of the moment have TFM, Dalot, Smalling, Jones, Rojo, Perreira, Mata, Lingard......yet again no clearing of the deadwood.
Look at the business all the other top sides have done, we havent. VDB isnt a first team improving player of significance, is a great squad signing. But no left back cover, noo quality centre back partner for Maguire, nobody to compete with an ageing Matic, no quality second string players for the front three.
We may have finished fourth but there is so much work still needs to b edon ein and out and we have done little. This window could be an utter shambles. Anybody very confident of top four is mad. We will really struggle again to make the top four this season as things stand.
We can’t keep losing these games. These are the games we need to be picking up the three points. Luckily for us it’s the first game but if we keep playing like that it won’t be the last.
even if we bring in 3 new players this window, it’s too late. We needed them before the season started, to meet team mates, train with them, bed in. Yes liverpool have bought late, but they already have a world class side. They can add players a little late without feeling it too much. We don’t have that luxury. We needed them from day one and it showed! It’s a shambles, a mess for a club this big. Amateur stuff.
even if we bring in 3 new players this window, it’s too late. We needed them before the season started, to meet team mates, train with them, bed in. Yes liverpool have bought late, but they already have a world class side. They can add players a little late without feeling it too much. We don’t have that luxury. We needed them from day one and it showed! It’s a shambles, a mess for a club this big. Amateur stuff.
Sorry I thought you wanted a thread explaining what Ole was trying to do tactically, the OP to that thread that I linked you to did that exactly with it explained clearly and a number of links for further reading. No insults and tactics explained.
your response is confusing.
Yep, its stupidly early to be drawing conclusions. Our 14 game run should give the side a chance to see if this were a one off before a meltdown begins
That's it then. There's nothing Man Utd Football Club could have done to prevent a loss at home.
United matches don’t happen in a vacuum though. As usual, we’ve gone into a season under a dark cloud and it will have played a part in our tumescent performance, on top of the lack of preparation. You can say what you want, but I find it quite instructive that players are coming out saying the squad needs reinforcing. That’s quite a thing to say.
Dropping points due to on field issues is something, dropping points due to not getting business done on time is inexcusable and falls right on Woodward's shoulders for basically knee capping the squad.
It was our first league loss since Bruno arrived. Why is it a solid reflection of our team, but the previous long unbeaten run isn’t?
Im not saying its acceptable or beyond criticism?
Its also not worth mass hysteria
I'd agree performance wise, I've seen enough pre season friendlies to know that the first game means nothing. Unfortunately I don't see us being in a much better position for Brighton next week and we could be 6 points down already.
Signings or sackings (which many seem to want) won't change it either we just have to suck it up i'm afraid.
Signings or sackings (which many seem to want) won't change it either we just have to suck it up i'm afraid.
We’ve got Luton on Tuesday so can play a stronger side.
I have a feeling the title will change from ‘this game’ to ‘this season’ soon if we don’t get our shit together.
We probably should do.
I agree, match fitness is huge, Palace from what I gather have now played 3 competitive matches and multiple pre season games.
Utd had 1 pre season game. Also had players that have just came back from Isolating yadayada.
No Home crowd.
That's a pretty big advantage Palace end, people underestimate match fitness.
Obviously if this continues a few games in, there is no excuse.
Edit:
Just checked to make sure.
Palace had played 4 friendliesand 2 competitive games (Southampton/Bournemouth) before playing Utd.
Utd played one preseason game with a 2nd string.
Utd had 1 pre season game. Also had players that have just came back from Isolating yadayada.
No Home crowd.
That's a pretty big advantage Palace end, people underestimate match fitness.
Obviously if this continues a few games in, there is no excuse.
Edit:
Just checked to make sure.
Palace had played 4 friendliesand 2 competitive games (Southampton/Bournemouth) before playing Utd.
Utd played one preseason game with a 2nd string.
Last edited:
Yeah, and while we're at it, just write off the first half of last season too. And any semi final we've had in the last 12 months. Just write it off. We'll be back.
Well only Zaha and Ward from their team get into our side. So if Ole needs Sancho in addition to what we have got to best palace at home then we have a very big problem.
Wow, one game into a new season And the excuses begin already
I read the last few pages because since the Southampton game Ole has been figured and has no response. Sorry I don't buy all the things said at the beginning. We've seen that before when Ole was first installed and had a bounce. Then it always falls to shit and there's no structure or any kind of idea.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ole...just-need-better-glasses.456942/post-26069528
Just insults.
This exactly. Only 1 or 2 of their players get into our side - yet our fans say we need more signings? No - we need to play better
(and yes some signings
)Their last season also became inconsequential a month before ours did and they've had fewer internationals and more time to get into their groove. At a premier league level, that matters. Palace are a club that play around 50 games a season, United play 65 or so with commitments in the league, cup games and Europe. One club can subsist on 15 first team players, another needs 18-20.
Never ceases to amaze me how some fans are too willing to 'write off PL games knowing how crucial every point is.
We had the 'players are tired and need rest' excuses and now after a rest 'the players are not match fit and need time' excuses. Quite simply, the team is poorly managed and coached. Better coached players arrive at the club and progressively there level drops due to the paucity of good coaching, it has happened so frequently the stats are glaringly obvious.
We had the 'players are tired and need rest' excuses and now after a rest 'the players are not match fit and need time' excuses. Quite simply, the team is poorly managed and coached. Better coached players arrive at the club and progressively there level drops due to the paucity of good coaching, it has happened so frequently the stats are glaringly obvious.
I don’t buy that we couldn’t be fit for the start of the season. And if we are less match fit than Palace, we should be able to make it up with focus and determination, and sheer quality for that matter.
That's a fair and balanced summary.
Last year was Ole getting his legs under the table. This year needs to be a serious title challenge and already I feel like we’ve blown it - in preparations for the season, transfers and now this result.
Didn't you know? Manchester United are eternally rebuilding, first game is a write-off etc etc etc. Somewhere in 2023 the squad is fully fit and ready to compete.
You can't just write off the fact that we started Dan James just because we were resting/benching our 18 year old who is our only player who can play on the right adequately. Thats the state of our squad. Rest/bench/rotate/cover for injuries, first option is Dan James and thats just pathetic squad depth and a recipe for disaster. Whats worse is that Fosu Mensah then started behind him. I'm sorry but the guy probably wouldn't start anywhere in the premier league, arguably the same with Dan James. Yet they start for us. Pathetic depth. Who is our cover for the most injury prone player in our squad (who isn't even good enough anyway), Luke Shaw? A 20 year old right back in Williams to cover both sides?
Its not an overreaction. We have wasted this summer completely and refused to strengthen, and that sends a message down to the players we do have that the club just doesn't care. You have Ole beating around the topic, Luke Shaw even saying it, Pogba refusing to sign a contract because we arent showing any ambition. Everyone knows we need players, yet they refuse to strengthen. We don't have some genius as manager who can cover up for the mish mash of a squad, but he's also not complete shit. This is just what happens when you have a squad that blatantly isnt good enough and is now demotivated because the management decided to do nothing about it.
Its not an overreaction. We have wasted this summer completely and refused to strengthen, and that sends a message down to the players we do have that the club just doesn't care. You have Ole beating around the topic, Luke Shaw even saying it, Pogba refusing to sign a contract because we arent showing any ambition. Everyone knows we need players, yet they refuse to strengthen. We don't have some genius as manager who can cover up for the mish mash of a squad, but he's also not complete shit. This is just what happens when you have a squad that blatantly isnt good enough and is now demotivated because the management decided to do nothing about it.
That link is from over a year ago. Do you know how many games Crystal Palace have won away from home against the conventional top 6 since their 2-1 win against us last year? Zero. Thats right, zero. Their overall record away from home against the top 6 wasn't even that impressive last season. WLDLDL, 5 points, 6 goals scored, 15 conceded. Their sole win was against us. Even if you add Leicester (5th) and Wolves (7th) it still looks bad: WLDLDLLL, 5 points, 6 scored, 20 conceded.
And if we look at their entire record against the top 8 from last season, both home and away, it doesn't paint a pretty picture: WLDLDLLLDDLLLLLD, 8 points, 12 goals scored, 34 condeded. Before yesterday their last win against a top 8 side, home or away, was against us. At Old Trafford. 13 months ago.
Sorry but there are no excuses for yesterday's loss and Palace's form against the top 8 in the last year shows that you simply can't "write it off". Pre-season or not, our players should be more than good enough to beat Crystal Palace at Old Trafford and if Solskjær can't find a way to do it then I feel there is little hope for him to succeed.
I think the original poster was trying to be optimistic, saying there were reasons for the poor performance. It goes against the teams ability and the last 6 months of form. A combination of poor match day selection, players not fit and opposition being ready and United not. One game is not an indicator of how the rest of the season will go. It's an awful start, in a league where you can't afford to drop many points and expect to finish really high. I'm really disappointed, just be a disaster since Sevilla defeat off the pitch.
In what world are we challenging for the title? Our owners don't strengthen past being top 4 challengers. The issue is that you need to keep strengthening every summer just to at least maintain, which they don't understand. If we do nothing in these last 2 weeks, I wouldn't be surprised if we finished purely mid table, like 8th. There's 9 quality squads in the league who all have reasons to be optimistic and feel like they can fight for top 4 (city, liverpool, chelsea, United, arsenal, spurs, everton, leicester, wolves). We'll do well to even finish 4th as it is.
Promote this newbie.
I agree with majority of the posters here. A loss against Palace in the first match of the calendar is never a write off. It is not like we have SAF managing us, Ole and the team have everything to prove and fight for, yet we were outplayed and outclassed. Moreover, this team has no fecking respect for the fans and the shirt, which is one of the biggest factors that Sir Alex always mentioned and valued. If sonme of us believe that Ole is in comfortable position now and safe, you are mistaken. Make no mistake, he will be Woody's next sacrificial lamb if we do not improve massively and rapidly.
**** Caf.
A certain section of supporters do so blindly; writing off a game gives the Lindelof’s et al cart blanche to keep putting in shockers but get back out on the pitch the following week.
A certain section of supporters do so blindly; writing off a game gives the Lindelof’s et al cart blanche to keep putting in shockers but get back out on the pitch the following week.
Well, no preseason is an excuse but don't tell we don't have fitness to even play for 15-20 mins. What we saw yesterday is on Ole. Starting a player who just recovered from Covid, making a point to AWB and Greenwood (who actually was involved in internationals) .
We need 2 solid wins in the next 2 games and then we can look at this first game as an aberration. We should have a strong side out against Luton. The only changes being AWB and Greenwood on the right. Bailly/Mengi in for Lindelof and try James on the left for Rashford, hoping it will give him a big kick up the ass. Suppose Henderson for De Gea could be tried as well. If we feck up then god knows what happens. Glazers could put their hand in their pockets and bring some new signings in all the way to Ole being gone by early December.
Almost a decade of shit football, where each false dawn is quickly followed by a soul destroying downturn has really put its mark on this fanbase. Standards can hardly fall any lower, and coming up with excuses require more and more mental gymnastics.
Particularly now, most of the discourse among fans has become a twisted competition in who is the bestest supporter in the world, where mediocre and expensive singnings are touted as successful, unimaginative and outdated football is accepted beacuse a "feel good" factor is back, and in-game management is a foreign concept.
Particularly now, most of the discourse among fans has become a twisted competition in who is the bestest supporter in the world, where mediocre and expensive singnings are touted as successful, unimaginative and outdated football is accepted beacuse a "feel good" factor is back, and in-game management is a foreign concept.
Spot on. Great post.
If we take yesterday’s result and extrapolate it across the rest of the season, then we will be relegated for sure
Good post. Well done