They don't? Lewandowski scored 15 goals in 10 games in 19/20, and Haaland was last season's top scorer with 10 in 8
Best Striker in the World
- Thread starter Idxomer
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I dunno, crazy idea, maybe Haaland and Lewandowski are really good players but not 40% better than the likes of Benzema, Ronaldo, Lukaku, they're just 40% better than their teammates.
You see, there’s a reason you went to 19/20 for Lewa because last season he scored 5 goals in CL and Ronaldo scored 4, go back a season and Lewa had 15 but the season before that Messi was top scorer and Ronaldo was only 2 behind the Pole so yes, Ronaldo and Messi basically are keeping up with Lewa in Europe?
We're talking about currently, not all time. Look at the thread title again.
Both Haaland and Lewandowski are the UCL topscorers in the last two seasons.
Last season Lewy only played 6 matches.
Are they? Lewandowski has outscored Cristiano 3 seasons in a row now, including the third highest single-season mark ever
Over the last 3 seasons, lewa average a goal every 75 minutes, and a non-penalty goal every 96. Messi is at 113 and 135, Cristiano 145 and 203
They are very much not keeping up, really
....ok. I'll do the CL only (career numbers and last 2 seasons) stats too then:
Lukaku
Career:
13 non-penalty goals (0 penalties) and 3 assists in 2101 minutes
162 minutes per non-penalty goal, 162 minutes per goal
131 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist, 131 minutes per G/A
Last 2 seasons:
6 non-penalty goals (0 penalties) and 2 assists in 851 minutes
142 minutes per non-penalty goal, 142 minutes per goal
106 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist, 106 minutes per G/A
At least he has improved....
Kane
Career:
17 non-penalty goals (3 penalties) and 3 assists in 2088 minutes
123 minutes per non-penalty goal, 104 minutes per goal
104 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist, 91 minutes per G/A
Last 2 seasons:
4 non-penalty goals (2 penalties) and 0 assists in 450 minutes
113 minutes per non-penalty goal, 75 minutes per goal
113 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist, 75 minutes per G/A
Benzema
Career:
71 non-penalty goals (0 penalties) and 27 assists in 9270 minutes
130 minutes per non-penalty goal, 130 minutes per goal
95 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist, 95 minutes per G/A
Last 2 seasons:
11 non-penalty goals (0 penalties) and 2 assists in 1484 minutes
135 minutes per non-penalty goal, 135 minutes per goal
114 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist, 114 minutes per G/A
Ronaldo
Career:
115 non-penalty goals (19 penalties) and 48 assists in 15326 minutes
133 minutes per non-penalty goal, 114 minutes per goal
94 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist, 84 minutes per G/A
Last 2 seasons:
5 non-penalty goals (3 penalties) and 3 assists in 1282 minutes
257 minutes per non-penalty goal, 160 minutes per goal
160 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist, 117 minutes per G/A
He's not been delivering the insane numbers he did in his prime anymore.
Lewandowski
Career:
60 non-penalty goals (13 penalties) and 22 assists in 8158 minutes
136 minutes per non-penalty goal, 112 minutes per goal
99 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist, 86 minutes per G/A
Last 2 seasons:
16 non-penalty goals (4 penalties) and 6 assists in 1401 minutes
88 minutes per non-penalty goal, 70 minutes per goal
64 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist, 54 minutes per G/A
Crazy stats the last couple of seasons, but similar to Ronaldo and Benzema in career output per minute.
Haaland
Career (only 2 seasons):
17 non-penalty goals (3 penalties) and 3 assists in 1260 minutes
74 minutes per non-penalty goal, 63 minutes per goal
63 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist, 54 minutes per G/A
The same 2 guys stands out. Haaland and Lewandowski. Lewa for a CL-winning Bayern, Haaland for Salzburg and Dortmund....
I didn’t say Ronaldo and Messi matched them, in saying Ronaldo and Messi basically matched them. They aren’t being constantly outstripped to the point that CL goals puts the stamp on the debate. Again, 1 season where Lewa went super natural is a fantastic achievement but over a longer stretch of time he has been kept up with and if 1 season is all the proof we need then Ronaldo being 1 goal behind him last season should hold the same merit.
Ronaldo a record at Juve is ridiculous by the way, setting all types of records himself and each league deserves its own context.
101 in 134 games, fasted to 50 in 61 games and that foolishness.
There’s plenty of debates going on here about German football and I dont want to really bring it in here but it’s not a shocker to me that German domestic records suddenly shoots Lewa into the atmosphere.
Serie A is no great shakes either. It's a step down from the top leagues and a lower standard than the Bundesliga right now. Lewandowski benefits from playing in the dominant force there but I don't see any argument for Ronaldo being better than him in recent years. Everyone was ready to give him the Balon Dor in 2020 and the next year he broke Muller's record.
FIFA is obviously no reference, but in 22 I think they nailed the strikers rating quite ok:
Lewandowski 92
Ronaldo, Mbappe 91
Kane 90
Lewandowski 92
Ronaldo, Mbappe 91
Kane 90
Sure, but for all that lewandowski keeps outscoring him. In CL and in total.
Bundesliga has fewer games than Serie A, and the goal per game average over the last 2 seasons is above 3 for both(in fact, it's higher in serie A last season). Cristiano has also been outscored in serie A, twice, over that span. He's arguably never been the best goalscorer in the league in any single season
But not by so much that it proves anything? I don’t get what’s so controversial here. Ronaldo top scorer in the Euros, over the last 3 years he is 1 goal away from having 1 goal per game for Portugal, by my maths it’s 32 in 33. Lewa is at 21 since the start of 18. Silva outscored Haaland last season in Germany, Anelka outscored Ronaldo in his last season for Utd.
I doubt that’s means much. It just shows there’s other quality strikers in the league but even then Ronaldo is the one consistent factor so it’s not as if he is constantly behind 1 player who is proving he is a better striker than Cristiano?
I honestly believe that if Ronaldo were a 24 year old player not named Cristiano and had the record he had over the last 3 seasons for club and country that he would get a lot more credit than he has got. People are over here praising Salah for 100 goals in 160 odd games while Ronaldo, at 36, got there in 30 games less!
He plays for Bayern not Juve, of course he scored more goals!
29 of those 101 goals were penalties. Ronaldo has not been among the 2 best strikers in the world the last 2 seasons and there is no reason to believe he will ever get there again at 36. Haaland has basically scored 3 goals from open play for each goal Ronaldo has scored in the CL since he entered the scene and almost 2 for every goal Ron has scored in other comps. The same goes for Lewy the last couple of years.I love Ronaldo and he is still a very good striker, but he is not close to Haaland and Lewa when it comes to goalscoring and goalcontribution in general right now. No one is. (Haaland since the 7th of August: 13 goals and 4 assists in 808 minutes for Dortmund and Norway)
Over the last 2 seasons Haaland and Lewa has been a couple of tiers above the others. All stats point towards those two, with Haaland playing for a weaker team.
Messi also used to be better in his prime (CL last 2 seasons):
4 non-penalty goals (4 penalties) and 6 assists in 1201 minutes
300 minutes per non-penalty goal, 150 minutes per goal
120 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist, 86 minutes per G/A
Mbappe deserves a mention though:
11 non-penalty goals (2 penalties) and 9 assists in 1552 minutes
141 minutes per non-penalty goal, 119 minutes per goal
78 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist, 70 minutes per G/A
Don’t waste your energy. You are arguing with Ronaldo/United fans. To them Ronaldo is greater than to others.
And then the usual „Italians know how to defend, so it is really hard to score.“ and “Bundesliga teams don’t know how to defend.“ crowd joins.
Statistically speaking Lewandowski has by far been the best striker over the last two years.
He consistently scores more goals...how does that not prove anything?
If Cristiano wasn't named Cristiano i'm not even sure he'd be part of this discussion based on what he's done over the last 3 seasons...he'd be generally viewed like Lukaku
I mean… youre a Bayern fan doing the same for Lewandowski. Bundesliga has acres of space between the goalkeeper and defenders, the open spaces they leave behind is insane. If Bebe played for Bayern In the Bundesliga he could probably grab a handful of goals a season to tell you the truth. Thats just reality of the league. Lewandowski pads his numbers in that league, Ronaldo has done it everywhere and continues to do so.Don’t waste your energy. You are arguing with Ronaldo/United fans. To them Ronaldo is greater than to others.
And then the usual „Italians know how to defend, so it is really hard to score.“ and “Bundesliga teams don’t know how to defend.“ crowd joins.
Statistically speaking Lewandowski has by far been the best striker over the last two years.
Have we stooped to the level where "most goals at this exact moment" = "the best"? As I said, there are no arguments that support the notion that Lukaku is better than Kane currently.
First of all, please check the average goals per game in Serie A and Bundesliga.
Second of all, Ronaldo scored against Newcastle. Let him continue to do so in the league and he might have a claim.
Btw, no one is arguing that Ronaldo hasn’t been a fantastic striker. One of the best to ever do it. But in my opinion he does no longer belong into the „best striker in the world“ conversation.
Edit: So Lewandowski is padding his stats in the Bundesliga. And the Champions League. And for Poland.
Lewandowski
Benzema
Kane
Haaland
in that order.
For United
Cavani
Ronaldo
Greenwood
Elanga
in that order.
Benzema
Kane
Haaland
in that order.
For United
Cavani
Ronaldo
Greenwood
Elanga
in that order.
Statistically he's been delivering almost identical numbers to Haaland:Don’t waste your energy. You are arguing with Ronaldo/United fans. To them Ronaldo is greater than to others.
And then the usual „Italians know how to defend, so it is really hard to score.“ and “Bundesliga teams don’t know how to defend.“ crowd joins.
Statistically speaking Lewandowski has by far been the best striker over the last two years.
Lenwandowski
Club:
93 non-penalty goals (18 penalties) and 19 assists in 7939 minutes.
85 minutes per non-penalty goal (72 minutes per goal)
71 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist (61 minutes per G/A)
National team:
15 non-penalty goals (0 penalties) and 7 assists in 1502 minutes.
100 minutes per non-penalty goal (100 minutes per goal)
68 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist (68 minutes per G/A)
Club and NT added up:
108 non-penalty goals (18 penalties) and 26 assists in 9441 minutes.
87 minutes per non-penalty goal (75 minutes per goal)
70 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist (62 minutes per G/A)
Haaland
Club (not including domestic comps in Austria, only CL from Salzburg):
66 non-penalty goals (7 penalties) and 20 assists in 5741 minutes.
87 minutes per non-penalty goal (79 minutes per goal)
67 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist (62 minutes per G/A)
National team:
11 non-penalty goals (1 penalties) and 1 assists in 1219 minutes.
111 minutes per non-penalty goal (101 minutes per goal)
101 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist (94 minutes per G/A)
Club and NT added up:
77 non-penalty goals (8 penalties) and 21 assists in 6960 minutes.
90 minutes per non-penalty goal (82 minutes per goal)
71 minutes per non-penalty goal/assist (66 minutes per G/A)
I am a Man United -fan and a huge fan of Ronaldo, but he is 36 and there is no shame in admitting other players has caught up with him. Haaland at 21 is murdering Ronaldo's 04 to 06-numbers and Messi's 06 to 08-numbers. They improved a lot going into their prime, so it'll be interesting to see how the story continues. If Mbappe moves next season he'll be very interesting to watch as well.
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So you can't judge on goals now, you can't judge on goals in the future, what about goals at the Euros? I feel like you might have made up an impossible game here.
The team they both played for significantly influences this. Bayern create chances at will and have a stellar midfield and other very competent players in attack that feed Lewandowski well. Ronaldo usually got 1 good chance a game at Juve - if even that sometimes.
Kane and Lukaku
Kane is the greatest CF of all time then?
Kane and Ronaldo did wonders last season.
Ah the old I'll praise Kane a bit just to big up Ronaldo tactic. Clearly going by your logic, Kane is better than Ronaldo has ever been putting those numbers up for plucky Spurs. If he was at Bayern he'd obviously score 150 goals a season.Of course you can't judge on hypothetical future goals, I'm not sure why you're having so much trouble understanding that.
Judging on goal tallies in the league right now is clearly a way too small sample size to draw any conclusions from, not sure why that's hard to understand about that either.
Then again, when you're trying to argue that Lukaku is much better than Kane, you'd have to rely on a sample size of three games or hypothetical future goals, because there's simply no other way of arguing that without looking like you're taking the piss.
Stat's don't bite on some people:
Ronaldo vs. Lewandowski vs. Haaland (Bundesliga, Serie A and CL 20/21 season):
Shots per 90:
Ronaldo 4,89
Lewa 4,58
Haaland 3,36
Shots on target per 90:
Ronaldo 1,82
Lewa 1,94
Haaland 1,82
Goals per shot:
Ronaldo 0,14
Lewa 0,24
Haaland 0,29
Expected non-penalty goals per 90 / non-penalty goals per 90:
Ronaldo 0,62/0,67 (outperformed expected goals by 8%)
Lewa 0,87/1,09 (outperformed expected goals by 25%)
Haaland 0,76/0,98 (outperformed expected goals by 29%)
Expected assists per 90 (setting up teammates):
Ronaldo 0,10
Lewa 0,12
Haaland 0,21
Ronaldo shot more, was not as clinical and set up his teammates less than the other two..... Needless to say, but Ronaldo also receives more passes in the final 3rd and in the penalty area, he carries the ball more, he dribbles more....He's just a little less clinical, finds himself in good scoring positions a little less often and is probably a bit more egoistic in his decisionmaking. Haaland is a lot more direct in his playing style than the other strikers in this thread.
The Italian and German league is pretty similar in quality. Sovereign Bayern scored 99 goals (2,91 goals/90minutes) in the 20/21 campaign, while Juve (77 goals, 2,03 goals/90minutes) and Dortmund (75 goals/2,20 goals/per 90 minutes) scored less. Atalanta (90), Inter (89) and Napoli (86) scored more than Juve in Serie A and only 3 teams in Germany scored more than 2 goals per 90 minutes (Frankfurt was the last one).
Chance creation per team, team expected goals per 90:
Bayern 2,50
Juve 2,12
Dortmund 2,30
The "german defenses are so weak" is a myth.
“Shots taken” doesn’t illustrate the full picture when you consider Ronaldo usually takes shots from obscene angles and ranges other players wouldn’t even think of shooting from - especially when he’s frustrated. That should be factored in when considering his shot total so doesn’t necessarily mean he’s less clinical. Also, Lewa and Haaland benefited from playing in a more fluid system so it’s easier to rack up assists than in the disjointed “Pirlo ball” Ronaldo was playing in. Nevertheless, I can’t deny Lewandowski has been the best #9 in the world over the past few seasons, I just don’t personally think he’s that far ahead of Ronaldo if at all if they both played in the same caliber sides.
Ronaldo. Don't really care about the numbers as they don't tell the whole story.
That is my point. His decision making isn't allways the best for the team. Maybe he should be looking for a pass in those situations instead of killing a move with a 1% shot?
With less clinical I refer to the other two outperforming the xG by a significantly larger margin. By this measure they will pretty much score more on identical chances. The higher xG numbers doesn't just indicate better service, it also inducates that they are better at finding good scoring positions.
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On what basis?
Cristiano scored 29 goals from 26.5 xG in the league, 4 from 4.4 in CL
Kane 23 from 20.5 league, 3 from 3.3 EL
Yes, you are absolutely correct about Haaland basically matching Lewandowski‘s output, which is obscene (Both the output and that he runs him so close.).
To me Lewandoswki is still better but I would not be shocked if Haaland is the best striker in 2 years time.
Haaland also still has room for improvement (link-up play, headers, first touch) but he masks his shortcomings so well with his power and speed.
Can you please tell it? The whole story. How is 36 year old Ronaldo is a better striker than Lewa and Haaland right now?
Lewa plays for a team that scores 30% more than Dortmund.....
I agree that Haaland has a lot of flaws in his game. That's why it's even more outrageous that he does what he does now. Can't wait to see what he can do in his prime....
I suggested we wait to the end of the season and you said that's not fair because that's the future!
Nothing you're arguing here makes any sense.
They didn't.
Lewandowski isn't better than Ronaldo or Mbappe and Kane isn't better than Benzema
I hope that people from this thread watched Bayern vs Barcelona and saw how Bayern players were either too selfish or incapable to pass the ball to Lewandowski, and how he needed the post to assist him twice.
People have warped ideas about what it means to be a Bayern Munich striker. Lewa doesn't really get 10 chances per game like you guys imagine he does.
People have warped ideas about what it means to be a Bayern Munich striker. Lewa doesn't really get 10 chances per game like you guys imagine he does.
He also has 0 impact on his team's play until he gets on the scoresheet.