It's honestly debatable. He's probably stronger physically, but I'm still not sure he's quick enough to suit playing with Maguire.
Basically, I don't think he'd be enough of an improvement to merit the £50m Brighton would want.
Ben White | Arsenal
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It's honestly debatable. He's probably stronger physically, but I'm still not sure he's quick enough to suit playing with Maguire.
Basically, I don't think he'd be enough of an improvement to merit the £50m Brighton would want.
Congratulations to him for getting called up. A great achievement for him but I personally feel it was the wrong choice by Southgate. That being said, this would suggest that Southgate is going with three at the back, especially in the first game against Croatia.
As for White as a player, he's a typical modern-day centre back. Comfortable on the ball, he's quick across the ground, plays on the front foot and can operate in a high line, as we saw with Leeds in the Championship and for Brighton this year in the EPL.
If were to get him, would he be an immediate upgrade on Lindelof? Probably not, but Ole has always spoken about bringing in players that can challenge our starting XI and he could possibly see White as that player.
As for White as a player, he's a typical modern-day centre back. Comfortable on the ball, he's quick across the ground, plays on the front foot and can operate in a high line, as we saw with Leeds in the Championship and for Brighton this year in the EPL.
If were to get him, would he be an immediate upgrade on Lindelof? Probably not, but Ole has always spoken about bringing in players that can challenge our starting XI and he could possibly see White as that player.
Agree. He’s the type of player you can take a punt on for a reasonable price based on a fair speculation he will hit another level.
Not sure Brighton would oblige with what we class as a ‘reasonable price’, and why should the in fairness. Back in the day we could pick these sort of players up on the cheap fairly simply.
Brighton turned down a £25m bid for him from Leeds last summer. Take into account his further development, his progressed international career and the Manchester United tax that would no doubt be applied and there's no reason to think he'd be particularly cheap.
Yeah, gone are those days. That being said, the price being touted around is 35M, which, if that's the case, would certainly be worth a punt.
Yeah it’s not a bad price at all really. Surprised Brighton would sell for that figure tbh.
I don't see anything to suggest he's good enough. He's 23 not 18, he should be categorically a Man Utd centre half if we are to pursue this one, not vague hope that he has time to improve. If Brighton have one or two other centre halfs they fancy to be at his level then what good is that to us?
Even if he's a hair better than Lindelof there would be no sense at all. We need somebody that is a stand out in their side, you cannot purchase a player with such vague ideas about how good they are and then expect they are going come to Man Utd, get plonked alongside Maguire in a side trying to push up and become more dominant and magically expect them to be the answer.
It's a tough job, they're not coming into a dominant side or surrounded by Rio or Vidic level players, they are a significant part of the solution, not the cherry on top. I think this is why they're scouring the market for people like Varane and supposedly this Kounde, even at high quoted prices, they know it's not about punts.
I imagine this guy is just on a list of people we are tracking and potentially an option of all else fails, just as we would be aware of all youngish English talent. I would be shocked if he's a primary target.
Even if he's a hair better than Lindelof there would be no sense at all. We need somebody that is a stand out in their side, you cannot purchase a player with such vague ideas about how good they are and then expect they are going come to Man Utd, get plonked alongside Maguire in a side trying to push up and become more dominant and magically expect them to be the answer.
It's a tough job, they're not coming into a dominant side or surrounded by Rio or Vidic level players, they are a significant part of the solution, not the cherry on top. I think this is why they're scouring the market for people like Varane and supposedly this Kounde, even at high quoted prices, they know it's not about punts.
I imagine this guy is just on a list of people we are tracking and potentially an option of all else fails, just as we would be aware of all youngish English talent. I would be shocked if he's a primary target.
He’s a decent player but he’s only a slight upgrade on Lindelof & for the money Brighton would want we might as well shop abroad & get someone better for cheaper.
He’s Lindelof but with an ability to carry the ball. I have seen him many times how he dribbles or carries the ball forward, this ability is necessary when you don’t have an option to pass the ball to. Good to invite pressure and Lindelof often doesn’t have this. But we need more than just a little upgrade in my opinion.
That's literally Lindelof's best attribute as a CB. It sure ain't strength, tackling or heading the ball.
Then explain why his number on the stats is one of the lowest one compare to others? Lindelof is just a good passer, but when it's about dribble and carry the ball, he's not good. You can see from the Villareal game how their strikers didn't need to put pressure on our centre backs because they know Lindelof and Bailly won't try to even carry the ball, the strikers just need to close the passing path to our midfield.
I would say Lindelof's best attribute is standing a man up and nicking the ball off him - tackling but not fancy sliding challenges.
so good at CB he’s been moved into CDM for brighton to cover for Dunk and Webster.
While he might improve he’s nowhere near ready yet for United.
While he might improve he’s nowhere near ready yet for United.
An absolute nobody until he gets an England Call up and now he's worth 50mill? Piss off.
Then explain why his number on the stats is one of the lowest one compare to others? Lindelof is just a good passer, but when it's about dribble and carry the ball, he's not good. You can see from the Villareal game how their strikers didn't need to put pressure on our centre backs because they know Lindelof and Bailly won't try to even carry the ball, the strikers just need to close the passing path to our midfield.
That probably the easiest thing I'll ever have to explain and I'm quite surprised I even have to do it, to be honest.
Firstly, you have total stats as opposed to per 90 min stats. That affects Lindelof the most because he has the least amount of 90s (28.7) while Ben White has the most (35.5). That's literally 23% more minutes on Ben White than Lindelof. Complete rookie mistake there mate.
Secondly, he literally beats Ben White in everything in the carries category except carries into the opposition box (where White has 1, lol). He has more carries per 90 mins as well as more total distance, more progressive distance and more progressions despite playing 7 games less. The only things he has less, are dribbles. But why the feck would I want my CB to go dribbling? Dribbles are high risk and very low reward for a CB. So long as they can keep possession, carry it forward comfortably and find a pass then that's all that's needed. Because that's what carrying is. How on earth do these stats paint a picture to you of Ben White being the better carrier or Lindelof being a bad one? Because Ben White dribbles with it? Is Varane a bad carrier cause he doesn't dribble too?
You may argue that Lindelof has more chance to carry the ball foward at Man United than Ben White has at Brighton, because the teams are not of equal strength or position in the table, which affects the stats. You would be right. You'd also have to acknowledge that Man United attack more frequently down the left and Maguire is the CB most likely to be involved in the build up of the attack (reflected in the stats) and it's Lindelof who has to drop back and cover for him. At best you could say that the stats, as always, only tell half the truth. But that half truth shows Lindelof as an adept ball carrier which coincides with what my eyes tell me when I watch him play.
Thirdly and lastly, if something is someone's strong suit it doesn't mean they are literally the best in the world at it. If I say Rashford is a player who relies on pace and sprints and you show me stats where players like Adama Traore or Zaha have more sprints per game and higher top speed, that doesn't somehow invalidate the argument about Rashford. You wouldn't say Zaha is Rashford with pace, just because Zaha is a it quicker for example. It's a nonsense argument.
That probably the easiest thing I'll ever have to explain and I'm quite surprised I even have to do it, to be honest.
Firstly, you have total stats as opposed to per 90 min stats. That affects Lindelof the most because he has the least amount of 90s (28.7) while Ben White has the most (35.5). That's literally 23% more minutes on Ben White than Lindelof. Complete rookie mistake there mate.
Secondly, he literally beats Ben White in everything in the carries category except carries into the opposition box (where White has 1, lol). He has more carries per 90 mins as well as more total distance, more progressive distance and more progressions despite playing 7 games less. The only things he has less, are dribbles. But why the feck would I want my CB to go dribbling? Dribbles are high risk and very low reward for a CB. So long as they can keep possession, carry it forward comfortably and find a pass then that's all that's needed. Because that's what carrying is. How on earth do these stats paint a picture to you of Ben White being the better carrier or Lindelof being a bad one? Because Ben White dribbles with it? Is Varane a bad carrier cause he doesn't dribble too?
You may argue that Lindelof has more chance to carry the ball foward at Man United than Ben White has at Brighton, because the teams are not of equal strength or position in the table, which affects the stats. You would be right. You'd also have to acknowledge that Man United attack more frequently down the left and Maguire is the CB most likely to be involved in the build up of the attack (reflected in the stats) and it's Lindelof who has to drop back and cover for him. At best you could say that the stats, as always, only tell half the truth. But that half truth shows Lindelof as an adept ball carrier which coincides with what my eyes tell me when I watch him play.
Thirdly and lastly, if something is someone's strong suit it doesn't mean they are literally the best in the world at it. If I say Rashford is a player who relies on pace and sprints and you show me stats where players like Adama Traore or Zaha have more sprints per game and higher top speed, that doesn't somehow invalidate the argument about Rashford. You wouldn't say Zaha is Rashford with pace, just because Zaha is a it quicker for example. It's a nonsense argument.
I'm in shocked that I need to explain why I used ''total'' instead of per 90 min. The reason why I used total is to show that Lindelof only made 2 takes on completion in the entire season. 2 in 2865 min, while others managed to made 20 in the entire season, 2 is significantly small amount. I never really say White is very good, I'm just saying he's better than Lindelof in that aspect which you can see the stats from his takes on completion is not just better but miles better than Lindelof.
The stats I provided wasn't only for White vs Lindelof comparison but to counter your argument when you said Lindelof's ability to carry/dribble the ball is his strength when clearly the stats doesn't show it as his strength when you compare to others. If that's his strength then we have problem.
I just told you a prime example of what happened to Villareal game that their strikers chose not to pressure our centre back and instead they chose to sit deep, give our centre back huge space, and close the passing path to our midfield. We have seen this happen many times when we play against team that primary sit deep. This is where the high reward we could get if a centre back knows how to dribble the ball and invite pressure. If the opposition players still don't press the CB then the CB can keep carry or dribble the ball to near the final third area. In the modern football, this ability is important since team relies on ball playing to play from the back.
Let's not making excuse about Lindelof has to cover for Maguire because when Maguire was injured, Lindelof was given the task to do what Maguire normally does. Oh boy, nothing changed in his ball playing contribution.
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Carries and dribbles are a different thing. It's quite a simple thing really. And no, I will never agree with you that you need your CB to be completing take ons and dribbling in midfield. Giving me a completely hypopethical example that a different defender might have made a difference against Villareal because you would have dribbled their defence is a pretty bonkers counter-argument. As if it made a difference in the other games of the season against packed defences when Maguire was completing take ons.
I would say Lindelofs greatest trick is to convince you guys there’s a player in there.
That being said, I don’t think Ben White is the answer
You can differentiate the meaning whatever you like but I expect you to know that carry and dribble has common purposes for ball playing centre back.
The CB doesn't need to dribble their defense. I just told you, the purpose is to invite pressure and find opening to play progressive ball. When CB invites the opposition striker to press him then he can make progressive pass to another player who has more space (after the striker who watched the deep midfielder chose to press the CB) or sometime when the opposition striker is blocking the way and this where you want to take on the striker to create space or view to find another player to pass the ball to instead of playing backward. If the opposition players still don't press the CB then the CB can keep carry or dribble the ball to near the final third area.
Brighton have rated him highly for a long while to be fair. Leeds tried to sign him in the summer after having him on loan where he was pivotal in their promotion. Brighton rejected three bids from Leeds, with the final bid being £25M. They put a price tag then of £40M+ for him. So an extra £10M isn't much in the grand scheme. Guess an England call up is worth £10M now though which seems strange..
I imagine they will probably settle for slightly less mind, given that is the first price put to the media.
We could offer them 40m & Phil Jones?
But they'd probably just prefer the 40m ...
But they'd probably just prefer the 40m ...
Stfange he gets called up after two games as the final man. Not entirely convinced myself. Looks good on the ball, decent man marking but not sure the rest of his game is top level, certainly not in terms of what we require this summer anyway.
As for all these mentions of being calle dup for us playing three at the back. Regardless of the opinion I am not for it........if we actually do, why on earth hasnt Southgate tried that formation in any period of these last two games? The squad selection does suggest with the Maguire situation he is considering that option.....well we havent played it, woul dbe poor management and I actually think SOuthgate has been really good for ENgland myself
As for all these mentions of being calle dup for us playing three at the back. Regardless of the opinion I am not for it........if we actually do, why on earth hasnt Southgate tried that formation in any period of these last two games? The squad selection does suggest with the Maguire situation he is considering that option.....well we havent played it, woul dbe poor management and I actually think SOuthgate has been really good for ENgland myself
Completely agree with this and this is exactly what I’ve been trying to explain in another thread.
I think Godfrey had a better season at CB than White did at CB but White performed better during the time at England (and got to play in his favoured position) so it wasn’t that fair but I’d rather anyone but Mings or Coady.
Ole feels like he is copying my football manager.
White, Sancho, Rice, Haaland and a left footed CB over the next 2 years.
White, Sancho, Rice, Haaland and a left footed CB over the next 2 years.
I think it’s for a lot to do with how appalling Mings was in those two games - so the fact White outshone him puts him in the team from my perspective - irrespective of whether it’s a 2 or a 3 at the back. It’s Stones + 1, and I just hope it’s him or Coady not the liability that is Mings.
Is it really much of a surprise though the last two games? Mings has always been a very good centre back with an abysmal first couple of touches and poor concentration levels. Is hardly anything new his recent ricks. It does show up the major wekaness in the England squad though doesnt it that Mings is the back up, Ben White after two games gets called up as well. I am not even confident in Stones and Maguire if both were fit not to have errors in them at the wrong time. Its the one part of our squad that is very poor and even in our first team, suspect. Personally hope we stick with the back two though as we havent played a back three for a long time, I dont want three of those centre backs and lets not forget Walker made quite a few errors in a back three t the worldcup
it’s not a surprise. I’m sure you won’t find many United fans who think he’s a good player. However, we’re his other appearances alongside Maguire? Or perhaps someone else who covered for him - no idea who he played with.
It could be that Southgate made a mistake in picking Mings and now he’s trying to rectify it? No idea.
like you I don’t want to go to a 3.
He is so good on loan for Leeds united in EFL that they tried to buy him for 25m last summer and got rejected. Now he has a full season in EPL and got call up for England. Bielsa wanted him badly for his system.
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No better than Axel IMHO.
WATCHED FODEN rip him apart at end of season, I just think we need a quick physical defender who is equally good in the air. VARANE is best option, but he will stay on in Madrid no doubt and we will end up no one.
I'd rather spend CB cash and sell Lingard to raise funds for Grealish.... we.cant allow city to get him.
WATCHED FODEN rip him apart at end of season, I just think we need a quick physical defender who is equally good in the air. VARANE is best option, but he will stay on in Madrid no doubt and we will end up no one.
I'd rather spend CB cash and sell Lingard to raise funds for Grealish.... we.cant allow city to get him.
At the end of the day like, any money that's put towards buying Ben White would be better utilised towards buying a more established/promising centre back. It's a no from me dawg.
Love those transfers!
I like Ben White and think he has great potential, he has fair recovery pace, reads the game well and therefore is good at intercepting passes. However it remains to be seen if he's an immediate upgrade on what we currently have (which is what I think the majority believe we need). I feel like he's played more in a back three too? So maybe questions if he's in a 2-man pairing? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
I think Varane should be the main target at CB (as he's an immediate upgrade) but this limits out ability to spend big on the class DM we seem to desperately need (In order to "unlock" Pogba - should he even sign a new deal/stay). That's all hypothetical considering we don't know what transfer budget he has and if/when Sancho signs how much is used up.
Tough call to make. Glad I'm not in Ole's shoes - he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't but it's him that gets the sack and called a "PE teacher" not Murtough.
He's a solid player but he's too slow to play alongside Maguire. My two overriding memories of him this season is getting torn a new one by Foden and getting sent for a hotdog by Rashford 2-3 times.
All the Leeds fans at my work love him and were gutted they didn't get him last summer.
All the Leeds fans at my work love him and were gutted they didn't get him last summer.
Hello.
Hello.
At those sort of numbers to get him into a club, Varane is the obvious choice, he is massively superior in every way.
The reason I want him is because I feel like he is the youngster that should be learning and eventually replacing Maguire, not really the one to be playing next to him.
However it doesn’t seem the right time and right price for him.
However it doesn’t seem the right time and right price for him.
Good defender but not what we need. The stats above show what he is clearly good at and exactly what we don't need.
So you're advocating the purchase of a 23 year old to learn and replace a 28 year old who'll have another 5 years in the team?