When United signed Maguire we went from 6th whilst conceding 54 goals to 3rd conceding 36. Leicester conceded fewer goals than us before we signed Maguire, we then conceded fewer goals than them in the following season. Leicester and United have both improved both defensively and as a team since the Maguire transfer.
Ben Chilwell | Chelsea player
- Thread starter Samid
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They improved because you lot were kind enough to hand 80m over to them, not because they sold Maguire.
That's more with getting rid of Puel and bringing in Rodgers, rather than Maguire in/out.
Fofana is the real gem for Leicester defensively right now. He looks like an excellent young CB that has everything to his game, and performing at a high level, and potential to be a proper top class CB. Soyuncu is alright, Evans is always underrated, but Fofana easily has the highest potential out of all of our or their CB's.
Those stats should be taken with a pinch of salt, sure we conceded 54 goals the season before Maguire arrived but that was a disaster season where players had totally lowered their guns for Mourinho. Before that season we had conceded 28 goals in the 2017/18, 29 goals in the 2016/2017, 35 goals in the 2015/2016.
For reference this season we have already conceded 32, at this pace we'll finish with 42.
So let's not pretend that buying Maguire made us a defensive force or anything, taking Mourinho's last season as level ground is biased to say the least.
Don't know if he's on this forum anymore but @Jimmy Skitz rated Maguire quite highly when we were signing him.
Don’t think anyone ever mentioned being a defensive force besides you, why the hyperbole? I simply stated that we improved defensively from season the season before we signed Maguire to the season after, which we did. We conceded fewer goals than Leicester did after signing him.
Yes but improving on the shit circus that we were defensively on 2018/2019 was a given with or without Maguire.
Its the worst defensive record we've had since the 78/79 season, so its hardly an argument to prove that Maguire improved us, specially when besides that 2018/2019 season we had better defensive records that with him. Can we agree on that?
Firstly, no response to the 'negative' comment you made up?
Your logic is almost laughable. That's correlation without causation. Proven quite aptly by @Dec9003. It's weird you don't use that same logic when trashing Ole. Ask yourself those exact questions, replacing Maguire with Ole, and see how you get on...
Fofana, Costagne, Tielsmans (permanent) Perez and Justin have all joined around the time Maguire left. Not only that, the likes of Barnes and Iheanacho had cemented thier place in the first team since. Rodgers also only signed in 2019. There's so, so many variables that you're flagrantly ignoring to get another one of your troll posts across the line, it's incredible you're even attempting it.
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It's no less of an argument than Leicester having improved because they improved on Maguire.
I agree with you, I didnt made that argument.
Ok. Well then carry on.
No I don’t agree, if we concede 50 odd goals without Maguire, and then concede fewer with him, we’re more defensively sound with him in the team than without him. I’d argue Wan-Bissaka and Maguire improved us defensively, because they did and the stats show that. De Gea losing his world class form showed how poor our defence actually was.
I just gave you 3 seasons stats that prove that we were better defensively before Maguire arrived besides that tank season. But if you think its ony fair to compare stats with that season then Im sure you think Maguire is a top 3 CB in the world since he by himself prevented 18 goals less.
That’s such a weird response to a normal discussion, are you alright? Note how I’ve disagreed and you’ve now twice had to go to hyperbole to prove your point. I’d argue that our defence three seasons prior is less relevant to the Maguire signing than the season we actually got him. Maybe have a breather before you respond if you choose to.
Hyperbole? thats what you are saying that since Maguire arrived our defense got 18 goals better. So why its hyperbole to say its because of him? I provided context of that season being tanked by the players, but you said no that doesnt matter its about Maguire arriving. So again why its hyperbole to say you think he's the reason our defense got 18 goals better?
The hyperbole is you saying I must be someone who thinks Maguire is one of the top three centre backs in the world just because I think he contributed to the improvement of our previously poor defence. I even mentioned Wan Bissaka being a factor in that improvement. I’m going to put you on ignore now, because you’re clearly looking for an argument and crying rather than looking for a friendly discussion.
Any player that improves 18 goals a defense is a worldclass defender. Easily top 3. But sure mate do as you wish ignore or whatever if you dont feel this is a "friendly" discussion.The hyperbole is you saying I must be someone who thinks Maguire is one of the top three centre backs in the world just because I think he contributed to the improvement of our previously poor defence. I even mentioned Wan Bissaka being a factor in that improvement. I’m going to put you on ignore now, because you’re clearly looking for an argument and crying rather than looking for a friendly discussion.
I rated him highly when he was with us but he hasn't improved much with you, where as Soyuncu has improved immensely, we said at the time he wasn't a leader and that Jonny Evans was our defensive leader but we go called bitter.
Maguire wouldn't get into our team now in a back 3 or a back 4.
The same thing can be said of Chilwell, he wouldn't get into our team either now ahead of Castagne or Justin before his injury, that's credit to the 2 players we have rather than a dig at Chilwell or Maguire
Maguire and Chilwell were our 3rd and 4th best defenders the seasons they left. I'm sorry but that's just the opinion of most Leicester fans, especially with Chilwell whose form was so ridiculously all over the place. He'd have four good months and then be diabolical for the rest of the season, he had a great engine but wasn't great defensively. James Justin this season has been a huge upgrade to my surprise, his consistency and better defending marks him above Chilwell. Ricardo before his injury pissed all over Chilwell as a player. Maguire was decent for us, the problem was his vanishing acts upfield left us exposed because of his lack of pace to get back, or his needlessly dangerous passes handing possession to the opposition.
That's not to say we wouldn't be in a similar position with them in the team, they both had ability and potential. At the time we'd probably rather have kept them as there was still huge potential because of their age, but the signings who have come in mean we don't miss either for one second.
Kante and Mahrez don't get slated because they were genuinely world class player, Kante undoubtedly and Mahrez in spurts. They'd still get in our team now, without question.
That's strange because I think he's been pretty decent defensively for us it's going forward he's been disappointing.
For me he lacks the aggression in his play going forward and is too passive often preferring the easy option of passing it back, when you compare him to Regullion and the two Scots the difference is night and day.
I liked Chilly's game when he was playing a lot for Lampard but now he is standing still and looking to pass. He does not anticipate where the forwards will make a run and then slide over to make a through ball pass. He has been doing a lot of standing with the ball and looking.
Let me guess, bombs forward, outpaces a few players, some nice link up play.... then he stops and passes it back, or tries to cross and hits the defenders legs.
Biggest thing for me is he's been absolutely awful at timing his runs forward and exploiting space in front of him. Needs to learn how to play on the last shoulder and curve his runs; too often he just runs straight forward while looking back over his shoulder and is 2 meters offside.
Barnes and Chilwell never really developed a partnership on our left, I would spread the blame evenly were it not for the fact in his few starts Luke Thomas and Barnes connected so quickly
That's something I had observed as well, Justin as an example will penetrate opposition defences, whilst Chilwell for us often could drag the ball forward but then he looked lost and didn't know what to to do with it once he reached the final third.
feck.
Well...Alonso is an adequate backup.
He was arguably Chelsea’s third best player in the recent run of results after James and Rudiger. Alonso doesn’t have any pace.
Alonso adequate back up but he can't provide dynamism chilwell gave for us . Most likely Hudson odoi will be tried occasionally since ziyech pulisic came back.
Have Alonso and other players will be trained in the position if Chilwell is out for the season. Few options who could be adapted to it.
Seems like LB is the one area lacking in Chelsea's academy other than Maatsen who is out on loan. Guessing Tuchel will try and adapt an attacking player for there this season.
I was just saying to the chaps in my WhatsApp group that we could potentially recall Maatsen. Would prefer that than buying to an average veteran to fill the gap temporarily.
So he’s set to miss a few weeks ?
ACL is typically months, not weeks.
How they worded it with the term "suspected" and "damage", I feel, it's less severe than season ending ACL rupture injury that often quickly diagnosed. Anyways, knee injury is a bitch to athlete.
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Wasn't Alonso keeping him out of the team with some really good form earlier this season? Chillwell has looked great since coming back into their side though, it'll be a miss for them even if the back up is good.
Chillwell has the speed Alonso doesn’t. Both do a great job, but Alonso cannot get back as fast.