Do you want an exact number or would you settle for to the nearest 10?
BBC: United hold talks with Mourinho
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They don't understand patience at all.
When I were a lad...
When I were a lad...
How would you define "the current generation of fans" anyway?
If you were, say, 23 years old. Are you the current generation of fans, or the last generation?
You know its a slow news day when you give a shit about something like this.
If you were, say, 23 years old. Are you the current generation of fans, or the last generation?
You know its a slow news day when you give a shit about something like this.
No idea, ask the poster I quoted, Adebesi. It's all bollocks though. Old and young alike have had enough of Louis.
We may not have a right to finish in the top 4 but we really should be, especially given the size, resources and wealth of the club.
Can you imagine Real, Barca, bayern ever finishing outside of the top 4? All hell would break loose.
Aye, not finishing in the top 4 now is a bigger failure than it was in the pre-SAF days. What the old folks remember is so long ago that it doesn't properly sync with current reality.
I'm sorry but the "divine right" argument is really, really, really stupid. It would be like saying that you can't complain about Memphis performances because he doesn't have a divine right to be good at football.
Clubs have goals that reflects their means, if they invest and work to achieve their goals, they ought to reach them. Fans expectations almost always reflect the means and goals set by the clubs themselves, they don't pull them from their backsides.
Clubs have goals that reflects their means, if they invest and work to achieve their goals, they ought to reach them. Fans expectations almost always reflect the means and goals set by the clubs themselves, they don't pull them from their backsides.
Its immaterial of the shirt they wear. Evans is in a WBA side that face attacks far more often and don't play possession football, and as such would be far more exposed than Rojo would. Anyway, my point is Evans last year was no way near as pathetic as Rojo is this year. Rojo is absolute cack for us this year and its overkill to say Evans was worse in a united shirt. McNair was playing very well last year, even by a mature CBs standards, so you saying Mcnair outperformed Rojo means little.
Rooney scored 2 more goals over 6 more appearances. Robin's goals to game ratio was actually (marginally) better, and that's ignoring the fact that more of his apps were off the bench. You can't say "Either him or Rooney had to be benched and it was always going to be him". He's unequivocally a better striker and always has been. Yes, you can say it was always going to be Rooney because of the English bias/illogical LVG love... but that just points to the lack of logic in choosing Rooney and selling RvP (hence my point).
Yes, we ideally would have preferred more quality than Nani but we didn't get it. So really it was daft to sell him with this in mind. Defoe has 15 goals this season, he'd improve City, Arsenal, Liverpool and Chelsea let alone us. Not that it has anything to do with our discussion (or the Mourinho one for that matter).
Considering how noncompetitive their leagues are it should. Different situation different clubs different leagues. Bundesliga only has one club in it really. Barca and Real swap the title between them and every so often another club will rise (Valencia or Atletico etc) to join them. Premier League we have several top clubs vying for the top.
No it's not. as said we work at it and we either succeed or we don't, Louis will more than likely be gone and Mourinho will come in because of it. Does it mean though that if Louis is still our manager next season everyone will stop supporting because he's stopping our devine right?
Actually it's less of a failure now. Hell coming in 5th is a bigger prize than winning the league back then. You still get a shit ton of money, play in the richest league in the world and get to compete next season as well as in Europe. It's more devastating to online fans than anything so we can say the failure actually is..... the younger fans themselves.....
Why are you talking about "everyone", who told you that United fans will stop supporting the team and why are you bringing up a notion that doesn't exist?
Fans think that United failed and they are right, United failed to achieve its goals and those have nothing to do with devine rights. What each fan does after that, is its problem.
I think we failed as well and because of it Louis will be sacked and Mourinho will replace him. What happens if Louis stays though, what happens if Mourinho comes in and doesn't get 4th either. We have people stating in here that this wouldn't happen if we were Real Madrid, or Barcelona or Bayern all of which are very different leagues and situations. Some saying we should be in the top 4 and if we did things right we would be, problem is every other team in the league thinks like that. No one told me anything, I'm just wondering what happens if we are on another decades long wait before we get the league again regardless of who we get in. Can they handle it.
That is true. But comparing our situation to Bayern's, Madrid's or Barca's is also a bit of a simplification. Yes we should be finishing in the top 4 but those clubs have not had to contend with the likes of Sheikh Mansour and Abramovich buying second tier clubs in their countries and pumping them full of resources that put them on an equal footing with the top clubs. I dont buy the whole "PL is the best league in the world" nonsense for a minute but we do have more clubs that see themselves as having a "right" to be in the top 4, either by virtue of history, resources or both, than there are qualifying CL places. There is very little margin for error, where I would argue that any of those other European clubs mentioned above have less other rich clubs breathing down their necks.
So yes, it is devastating that we arent in the CL and I am not for a second saying we should just accept it. But at the same time we cannot deny the realities of the league we operate in. Whichever one of City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and United fail to get into the CL next season will demand an inquest, and a few others like Spurs will also be looking to gatecrash. We have the resources to make sure we get in there, if we appoint the right manager I am confident we will get in there, but we cant afford to take it for granted.
They will moan, I will moan and I assume you will moan but we will support United.
I see what you are trying to say and I'm sorry for being upset about it, it's just that what you describe like a "devine right", is in fact an extremely objective ambition based on the means and the investments of the club and that's why you believe that LVG will be sacked because his performances don't reflect the investments put into his team.
The current problem between the fans and the club is that unlike Bayern, Real Madrid or Barcelona, he doesn't assume its position in the football world, he acts like he was a midtable club happy to have tried to compete for a CL qualification, if Woodward had some respect for the fans he would have lambasted LVG when he said that the fans were too ambitious, a United manager should never say something like that, never.
I am reading some absolute garbage to be honest. Who can handle what and who has the right to what...New generation of fans versus old...It's like seeing a drunk old military dud who is now irrelevant, blaming it all on the youth.
United has failed based, not on expectations or desires, but based on it's assets. These include everything, from the infrastructure to the players and manager. In terms of football, we have failed. Everyone saying the fans might need to be able to handle it is far from reality. Whereas the good old days saw mostly local fans, much more religious in terms of the clubs they follow, the new global reality is that of people behind devices. They care as much as you people do but you don't see them down the pub because they live on the other side of the planet. Also, getting used to success and wanting it to continue is nothing to be ashamed at. This new generation is competing for education and work with many more than what some used to back when migration was not a thing. This breeds winners, breeds fighters, who don't believe in "it's ok lads, just have patience, eventually we'll get what we want". The people are fine, the times have changed.
What is harder? Building upon years of failure or building upon years of success? Logic lads, logic.
United has failed based, not on expectations or desires, but based on it's assets. These include everything, from the infrastructure to the players and manager. In terms of football, we have failed. Everyone saying the fans might need to be able to handle it is far from reality. Whereas the good old days saw mostly local fans, much more religious in terms of the clubs they follow, the new global reality is that of people behind devices. They care as much as you people do but you don't see them down the pub because they live on the other side of the planet. Also, getting used to success and wanting it to continue is nothing to be ashamed at. This new generation is competing for education and work with many more than what some used to back when migration was not a thing. This breeds winners, breeds fighters, who don't believe in "it's ok lads, just have patience, eventually we'll get what we want". The people are fine, the times have changed.
What is harder? Building upon years of failure or building upon years of success? Logic lads, logic.
Apology accepted
Yep. With the enormity of the club's presence globally and the resources that are at our disposal not only should we be finishing top four we should be winning the fecking thing or at least challenging for it. Top four is the bar set at it's absolute minimum. As well as this we should be competing on a level with Real and Bayern and the fact that we are not is further evidence of seriously flawed management from our board.
It's like we've suddenly been transformed into a second tier outfit or something. We are dripping with money, history and pedigree and anything other than competing for the highest honours is rank failure. I suspect Jose Mourinho would be of that opinion too and I think he'd be expressing that as opposed to bollocks talk of expectations being too high.
Completely agree.
All clubs have a natural level, based on their financial resources, stadium size and standing within the game.
If we supported, say, Southampton or Watford, we'd have no right to moan about a fifth-place finish in the Premier League. But we've all chosen to support United - yes that choice has brought a lot of glory but most of us have invested huge amounts of time and money in the team. So we have a right to complain when they fall beneath their natural level, which is Champions League qualification at a minimum.
Van Gaal's moaning about excessive expectations is just crass and cowardly, all the more so because he habitually refers to himself as a managerial genius.
Whatever their opinions may have been, the fans didn't appoint LVG. Woodward did, so the blame is his. The buck stops on the CEO's desk.
You don't need to find someone to blame, he appointed a good manager and that good manager failed.
If he had appointed Mourinho and he had failed, you might give Woody a fee pass. But LVG's record was spotty, with a number of failures, particularly as he got older. Woodward made a judgement call, and got it wrong. He's paid a lot of money to get it right.
I'm extremely ancient and have had enough of Louis
Why are people comparing Evans and Rojo in a thread about Mourinho?
As is the comparison between Evans as CB last season and Rojo as primarily an LB this season makes no sense. Didn't our best stretch last season come with Rojo at CB anyways? He's nothing great and should be moved on, but as a CB I think he's been adequate and better than Evans was last season when Rio and Vidic weren't there to hold his hand.
Honestly think the bigger issue than who we've bought is the system we're employing anyways. For example, buying CMs like Herrera and Schneiderlin and then being surprised when they look poor in a system predicated on possession rather than pressing higher and playing on the counter which are their actual strengths makes no sense.
More than LVG being a shite with his tactics, I think either he was terrible at identifying the players he thought would suit his preferred system and style of play or there was a massive disconnect on transfers between him and Woodward. They're both to blame for the predicament the squad is in tbh. Whomever you want to blame more is just a matter of opinion.
As is the comparison between Evans as CB last season and Rojo as primarily an LB this season makes no sense. Didn't our best stretch last season come with Rojo at CB anyways? He's nothing great and should be moved on, but as a CB I think he's been adequate and better than Evans was last season when Rio and Vidic weren't there to hold his hand.
Honestly think the bigger issue than who we've bought is the system we're employing anyways. For example, buying CMs like Herrera and Schneiderlin and then being surprised when they look poor in a system predicated on possession rather than pressing higher and playing on the counter which are their actual strengths makes no sense.
More than LVG being a shite with his tactics, I think either he was terrible at identifying the players he thought would suit his preferred system and style of play or there was a massive disconnect on transfers between him and Woodward. They're both to blame for the predicament the squad is in tbh. Whomever you want to blame more is just a matter of opinion.
Is he here yet?
Not true? The ease with which you can traverse the globe and open borders have not made it more competitive?
Nobody has a right to finish top 4 true. What he was saying is badly worded because we have an obligation to finish top 4.
That is the only question that needs answering.
This is a very simple ethos/philosophy, which applies to all large organisations (including MUFC) with huge financial backing and high expectations.
Unfortunately some people (including LVG), haven't understood this.
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It's been competitive with migration and foreign workers since the late 70's early 80's. Probably even longer for all I know.
They took our jobs...
"only Ebola will prevent Mourinho from joining United."
Dey turk err jurbs...
Back on topic, doubt we will hear any news of significance on Mourinho for rest of the week.
i'm at the point where i scroll between this thread and the LVG OUT thread, only looking for embedded tweets. if i see nothing, i wait 5 minutes, refresh and do the same thing all over again.
Time for the big gay pile in protest of Louis I think.
The issue is twofold for me a) a lack of an experienced football voice within the board, and b) the inability to make tough decisions when it counts.
When Fergie was here he ran the club bottom to top. There was no need for someone with a football back ground to be involved. Now we lack direction and as Van Gaal was only ever short term they're not going to look for him fit guidance.
Woodward and those making the decisions look totally out of their depth. There are enough leaks to the press (by whatever means) about targeting superstar transfers to make the club look like amateurs. The fact that they haven't pulled the trigger on Van Gaal highlights the inability to make decisions. It's been a shambles since Gill left.
Same here same here
Story of my life these last few weeks
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