Violence? Try chaos and sheer hate and anarchy.
BBC: United hold talks with Mourinho
- Thread starter Damien
- Start date
- Status
Violence? Try chaos and sheer hate and anarchy.
sammsky1 said:
...
People trying to organise a turn-up at Charlton and Ferguson's house and all sorts of shit.
Last edited:
It was on the decline. I joined the forum post 07/08.. and I remember in the newbies how many of us were not happy with the performances we were seeing. Our defensive record in 08/09 was superb but there was no doubt that there was a huge drop in the 'entertainment' factor to the year before.
We felt like we had already peaked and the team was in need of new blood and energy (compared to the standards that had been set in 06-08). The years after it.. the team progressively got worse, losing Ronaldo and Tevez (two out and out world class players with bundles of flair/energy/workrate) was only going to result in our attack becoming more blunt. Suddenly we had Berbatov, Nani and Valencia.. a huge drop in terms of attacking quality.
In defence whereas the likes of Ferdinand and Vidic were once invincible and physically robust, they soon started picking up injuries so we had to play slightly more defensive to adapt to their weakened physical state.
Scholes who was in his prime still in 06/07, hugely influential the year after.. was clearly on the physical decline and we really needed the likes of Anderson to step up to the plate.. and he never did. Fergie never bothered rectifying the issue.
The signing of Van Persie injected some much needed quality up front but alot of posters were fearful that it was a stop gap signing and that the rest of the team needed alot of work.
It is absolutely false to say that everyone was completely blinded by our success and thought we were a side on the up even when we won our last title. I certainly didn't and I know many posters who were concerned about the state of our first team especially post his retirement.
No one thought it would get this bad though, I genuinely thought.. one bad season and a clear-out, followed by strong signings we would be fine but it hasn't been like that.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/blessing-in-disguise-or-madness.311496/
That is me in 2010 saying maybe we should get maybe get rid of Rooney and focus on recruiting first teamers of the future like Bale/Modric. I wasn't spot on (also mention Rodwell haha) but the point stands, I could sense that the balance of the team was heavily reliant on ageing big stars such as VDS, Scholes, Giggs and the defense.. and we didn't have a spine once they were to leave.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/do-you-enjoy-watching-this-united-side.369087/
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/are-we-the-england-national-team-in-disguise.377315/
After our CL win, we just weren't the same side to watch - still remained hugely successful because there was alot of know how within the team until the end of Fergies reign, but performance wise we clearly peaked in 2008 and it was not the same after that although the results stayed consistent. A huge drop off was inevitable and we should have been planning for the future properly but didn't.
Isn't that confusing being good with being entertaining, two entirely different things. We might have stopped being as entertaining but that could well have been down to a changing tactical approach to a more pragmatic style.
Later on, in an unquoted segment, you said we were still successful because we had a lot of 'know how'. You don't win 3 titles in 5 years, being only even beaten on points once in those 5 years, on 'know how'. It's like when people try to make out we had a terrible squad and had to use 'Fergie magic' to achieve anything. Fergie was a great manager - he wasn't Harry Potter.
Entertainment factor matters but lack of it doesn't show a team in decline necessarily.
There's probably a thread for this somewhere but it's explained below. Basically hopefully not for at least a year but depends on performances.
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-champions-league-spot-coefficients-explained
Entertainment factor is a big tell tale sign in the decline of a side especially if you're a side whose football is geared towards entertaining and winning at the same time.
If Barcelona became less entertaining, I guarantee it would correlate with them being less successful. Some teams are built on winning trophies based on sheer defensive tactics but you'll find that such teams are few and far between in the history of the game. History suggests that the team that is the most entertaining, or most enterprising in attack tends to win the title and win trophies.
We changed to a more pragmatic style not out of tactical desire, we had to do it out of necessity once we lost the likes of Ronaldo and Tevez. With attacking players of a lesser quality in the side, we couldn't afford to be as attacking.. so the decline in quality up front meant we had to compensate with more defensive tactics. That meant we were still a very 'good' side as you put it but it clearly demonstrated an underlying decline because during 06-08 we were defensive solid as well as being probably the best attacking team in the world not just the EPL.
Knowhow is incredibly important. That squad whilst it was beginning to slow down in terms of physical ability, the mental strength and desire of that squad even post Ronaldo/Tevez was incredibly strong. Backed up by the ruthless SAF.. it remained a winning machine. But knowhow can only take you so far.. once Moyes came in (a non winner) and the legs completely went.. the wheels began to fall off.
A great side needs aspects such as mental strength, ability, athleticism, strong tactical structure, individuals with footballing intelligence, depth in numbers. Even when Ronaldo went.. ability declined and athleticism was slowly waning, but it was still head and shoulders above the rest of the EPL. But everyone around us was catching up and once Moyes took charge and made some ill fated signings.. in addition to all our greats leaving, suddenly in all those aspects we were looking very mediocre and there were gaping holes in our squad. This under a peak Fergie would have been foreseen and mitigated through signings for the future.. however as he was coming to the end of his tenure, this forward thinking planning wasn't a priority and he wasn't as sharp on this front as he used to be.
There'd be more planes flying over OT than left Nazi Germany in WW2. Actual aerial dogfights between Mourinho and Giggs supporters.
Anti Giggs caftards detonating their suicide vests outside Sam Platts?
Last edited:
And the point that all this rubbish is on this thread is because apparently when Jose leaves in 3 years time (if he comes in the first place) we will have forgotten all about Fergie like we have Sir Matt because Jose may have won us one or two trophies before he's off somewhere else and we will be playing galactico entertaining football during those three years.
This is assuming we all have memories like goldfish and are under 30
This is assuming we all have memories like goldfish and are under 30
Any Portuguese residents about?
Seems press over in Portugal running a few stories about Mourinho already securing residence in Manchester....
Seems press over in Portugal running a few stories about Mourinho already securing residence in Manchester....
Oh la la.
I know for a fact he's bought the flat above the chippy on Cheetham Hill High St.
I heard that he got a voodoo doll to cause his latest injury knowing that he won't be here next year so his record is safe.
Ooh we're at the estate agent spies stage!
Interestingly, If you took away the 11/12 season - which will be the next one to 'drop off' the 5 year rankings, and calculate it as things stand for Europe this season, it would put Italy on 58.248 and England on 57.659. It's getting awfully close and things are quite tight looking forward. England currently have 6 clubs left in Europe while Italy have 5. That said none of the Italian teams (bar Juve who haven't played their first leg yet) seem to be in strong positions for progressing after the first round of games. It is going to be on a bit of knife edge for this next 2 or 3 seasons between England and Italy.
It's time we start an international information network. Highly placed RedCafe informants in every aspect of the world. We'll get information way better.
They really weren't, those guys were done. At that point they were decent players at best. A year later almost all of them became irrelavant at the highest level of the game.
Predictably so. Mou and Ancelotti have been coaching at the highest level of the game for more than a decade now and have won plenty. In terms of big club management this is Allegri's 6th season and plenty of those were wasted at a Milan were they were heading for financial ruin and stopped investing in the team. His work at Juve though speaks for itself so far though.
The Mail said they saw him buying a pot noodle in Cheetham Hill. He may not be able to bring us to the boil in 2 minutes though.
Samuel F*ckhurst has been harping on about Gill/Fergie/Charlton not wanting this all day
They need a story.
Why would Gill not want Jose? Wasn't he against Moyes citing has no cl experience or something like that.
You seem set in your argument and I am in mine. Id say lets agree to disagree. However you can ask Italian fans whom they would prefer as coach between Mourinho/Ancelotti and Allegri. You'll be surprised
Thats what I thought. Gill would be like Woodward and be more practical in his thinking than sentimental like Fergie or Charlton.
Red Issue has claimed this too. Say Gill was pro-Mou in 2013 but has changed his stance. God knows why if so.
And what's up with this notion that fergie didn't want Jose after his retirement. Wasn't it commonly accepted that Moyes had to be the scapegoat because no one wanted to follow fergie right after.
Story keeps changing doesn't it. Apparently he was first choice, then he was 6th choice, now it's... ?
Wasn't it commonly accepted that Mourinho cried himself to sleep when he didn't get the United job.
Couldn't care less
Sir Alex went on record saying that Jose had already confided in him that he was going to Chelsea.
There is so much contradiction in so much of this stories that you really dont what to believe, because either side can be disputed.
Hes never lied. I'm not saying any of what RI is true, but also you should know not to believe everything Fergie says after the fact either
I love the man, but yes, not everything that Fergie says its true. It usually had an intended purpose though.
The Jose statement was said with him explaining how Moyes wasnt first choice. I dont really believe that one.
Your first paragraph is true. Fergie has also spoken about Klopp, Pep and Ancelotti. But Moyes is on record saying Fergie had been telling him as far back as 2012 not to sign a new contract with Everton.
The story about whether Moyes was first choice isn't straight.
Klopp himself mentioned the same thing. Then there is the Pep business in New York, and Moyes willingly running down his contract down at Everton. They were also stories in the English press a year before Fergie's retirement about Moyes joining United as assistant manager for a year under Sir Alex then taking over.
Its hard to know what to believe.
Lunacy. Out of all people SAF could have chosen to coax into not signing a new contract he chooses that fool.
Is it a decent chippy?
Before you press play Richard Keys looks like that Blind opera singer … just saying!
Don't they all add up to what happened,
SAF had considered Moyes for several years and then because of a number of factors, Moyes was the only viable candidate at the time.
Just because SAF liked Mourinho does not mean Mourinho had to be his choice... And just because SAF did not choose Mourinho does not mean he hates his guts either!
EDIT: ooops, just seen the date … better late than never I suppose 
'Charlton & Ferguson don't want Mourinho at Man United'
Sam Luckhurst on BBC Radio 5 Live reckons it's BC & SAF not Woody
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03kcxs0
'Charlton & Ferguson don't want Mourinho at Man United'
Sam Luckhurst on BBC Radio 5 Live reckons it's BC & SAF not Woody
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03kcxs0
Charlton and Ferguson OUT!
- Status