£136k a week then.
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Morgan and Ander both are much more faster and mobile than Bastian is. It's even ridiculous to compare. As for Carrick, yes, he never was a agile player, but he always played much-much deeper than Schweinsteiger. All this Schweinsteiger will play a DM is just silly nonsense, he simply can't. While Carrick can actually play a DM, he is way better in terms of any defensive action and even was used by Fergie (if we don't trust Moyes and LVG) as a makeshift CB. A sort of testament to his defensive abilities.
Schweinsteiger that does not support the attack that does not score 5-10 goals a season and creates as much is a dead-weight. Which is what he was this season.
He's worth keeping. When you have someone like Carrick still here - maybe signing a new contract then why would we give up on him after a season? It's not impossible to imagine him being better next season. It'll be perhaps a more positive environment and his experience and know how might be more apparent. If we have a dressing room that includes Bastian and Zlatan - regardless of age - it will be a great environment to be part of.
Completely agree. Some seriously miss-placed revisionism going on to suggest otherwise.
How exactly did he turn a draw into our win? Did he have a good game?
It's just beyond silly if you consider him scoring, lets give him that Deeney OG, after a scuffle in a box a "force of will" or "leadership". That was just luck and an episode. His overall game in that match was dreadful. Watford basically overplayed us and in no small part that was down to Bastian's showing. It's same story with him, he hardly created chances for our players, he was not particularly good in returning the ball, even his passing accuracy was in low 70s in that game. So he could not even control the flow of the game. So apart from that shot he actually hardly done anything impressive in that game. Some leadership that.
They are faster? Doesn't really matter when Schneiderlin looks frightened when the football is passed to him, and Herrera a pale shadow of the player saw in the second half of 14/15. Not sure what driving runs you saw from the pair of them.
I don't think Schweinstieger can play as a DM so that's not my argument. He can be a very good central midfielder to us offering us things that Carrick can't. If he stays fit next season there's a good chance we will see just that happen.
Nearly everyone in our squad fits your definition of "deadweight" based on the 15/16 season.
That's a massive difference.
Yes, way faster.
Sure none of them had a good season, but first of all Bastian was the worst of them, his injury record must be taken into consideration since injured player can't play, it's that simple and Bastian was injured for half of the season in the last 3-4 seasons or something like that. He will be injured for quite a while next year as well, i am sure of it.
What things? Cause he offers nothing in attack. He hardly scores, hardly creates chances. The thing here is that ball distribution and intelligent moving and passing is admirable things of course but you can only rely on them in certain position. Deep lying DM playmaker is the one, that's why Carrick had so much success.
Sure there are some formations that can exploit Bastian like a 4-1-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3 with a 1-2 in midfield, when Bastian will have a DM that will work his socks of to get the ball back and more attacking player like peak Ander or even say someone like Pjanic who will be responsible for creating chances and managing the attacks, while Schweinsteiger will be kind of in-between guy, connecting things. But that a very specific formation, playing style, you need very specific DM and CM/AM for it that we don't really have. So why can he offer us? I think he will stay if Jose can't move him and will not be a main player next year. Can he be a useful squad player. Maybe, but he need to drastically raise his attacking game. We bought him gor his goals from midfield and he failed to deliver completely.
Sure, but some more than others.
Nobody really knows what he is on, there were a completely different figures in the papers ranging from 130-150k to 200k and even 200-250k. So the probability of him being on a 200k is roughly the same as 136k mentioned. Also it's a sure thing he got a signing-on fee that is usually paid out in installments. Maybe that difference between 136k and 200k is exactly that, his signing-on fee bonus.
Yeah, Schneiderlin and Herrera are really rapid. It's probably why they keep making driving runs into the opposition halves.
Oh wait..
Except he wasn't. Prior to his injury he was far better than the wank Schneiderlin served up all season. He wasn't at his best but given he's one of the best midfielders of his generation, that was still enough to be a lot better than a CM who didn't look capable on the ball.
The club is in a much better to judge this than you are. If they feel he can't remain fit we will sell him. If they feel he can, it's a no brainer to keep him.
Yes, it's called central midfield.
What things? You're asking me what things Bastian Schweinsteiger offers when he is fit?
Btw, Herrera scored 3 league goals last season. What a return. And Schneiderlin pretty much did nothing well.
What the feck is a "peak Ander"? Did you actually watch Herrera play last season? I really like the guy but he was awful.
You're over complicating your mind/the discussion with all the formation/AM/DM.
A fit Schweinsteiger offers plenty. He is a leader. He is composed and classy on the ball. He has a great touch. He runs his socks off. He can tackle. He gets forward and tracks back. The question is whether he can remain fit. It's the only question, really. He doesn't need to "raise his attacking" game because we didn't sign him for "goals from midfield". You sound like someone who hasn't followed him one bit. We need him to help us control and dominate games.
Sorry mate, he's cack. Having attended and watched many, many Bundesliga games I can absolutely say that I doubt any CM player accustomed to BL will ever adjust and dominate the PL. We've already seen Ballack, Hargreaves and Kagawa struggle and, for me, Gundogan is a signing that should worry City fans. It shows that Pep hasn't fully understood this league yet.
At this point in his career there's very little chance Schweini can 'control and dominate games' for us. Mourinho might be a decent manager for him but is basically the only hope.
This makes no sense. Taking players who are no great shakes in Hargreaves and Kagawa, one that moved possibly too late and wasn't ideal given Lampard was already there, and a 31 year old, is hardly a good sample to decide "no CM player accustomed to BL will adjust and dominate in the PL". Why is it that Kante can do it from the French league yet noone can from a better BL?
Well if we compare their runs to Bastian, who hardly has any then it's quite obvious they both will come on top. but you will probably say that because of tactics, position, not because Bastian just can't make them. A moot point really.
When was that exactly? Which games?
Sure. And I trust Munich's judgement and they decided to bin the guy. Do i trust MU judgement? Well, lately not so much, Falcao, Di Maria and lots of other recent transfers support that doubt.
What is the last season exactly, since we are mid-season it can mean both 15-16 or 14-15. Ander was really good in the second half of 14-15, i would call that peak.
It's all wrong since you confused fit with "younger". For example Bastian in say September or October 15-16 season was fit, to suggest otherwise is completely ridiculous, any professional must be fit after a month of season without injuries. And was he a leader? No. Was he good on the ball? Not exactly, mostly side passing from him. He did not tackle much, did not really get forward that is proven by his lack of goals or chances created or any attacking action for that matter. I mean Bastian that we saw all fall and in the early winter is nothing like you described. As for his goals, even in an injury hit season for Munich the 14-15 one, he still scored and assisted enough, 5 goals and 4 assists.
It makes perfect sense if you've eyes and a brain mate. Have you?
French league far closer to PL than BL.
Kagawa 'no great shakes'? Scuse me? He was absolutely seen as a top, top player before he moved to United. Hargreaves also very highly regarded. How many of Hargreaves performances in CL did you see for Bayern? He was never able to replicate that level in England.
It's easier in wide positions, but for a CM the PL is almost a different game from the BL and very hard to adapt to.
Sounds like you're not to familiar with either league if you can't tell difference mate.
Nope, it's still a load of bullshit with almost no basis other than "I've watched a few games, MATE". It's more likely your eyes and brain that needs checking. Also, an attitude issue given how easily you get worked up and stray from logic to confrontation.
Kagawa was a very good player. He's nowhere near the level as the best players Germany has produced in recent times, like Schweinsteiger. To pick up a few players and decide "NO CM from Germany will succeed/dominate/do well in the PL" is a laughable statement, given it's one of the best leagues around.
Sounds like you think you know much much more than you and make sweeping generalizations which have little meaning.
Herrera and Schneiderlin come on top in "runs"? I'm not sure what that means exactly, but Schweinsteiger prior to his injury didn't lack in energy. He's older than the other two and like other great players when they age will have to learn to manage his body better than he would at 25 or Herrera would. But it hardly gives Herrera or Schneiderlin an advantage when they make little use of their younger age.
Either way, we're arguing semantics, because the important decision to make is about whether he can remain fit. I personally believe that if he does he will do well next season and I'm not seeing enough great things from our other CMs to make his the "problem", unless of course, as Iv'e said before, we don't believe in his ability to stay fit.
Our midfield in general struggled last season. Partly due to themselves and partly due to what they were surrounded by. The lack of quality options doesn't help any of them. Barely any of them had "great" games (ignoring teams like Brugge). Watford away comes to mind, but like with Herrera and Schneiderlin, the good football was visible in patches. Something that was synonymous with our team as a whole.
Fair enough. It's an important decision, because we can't afford passengers next season if we want a proper tilt at the title. So hopefully they get their judgement on Schweinsteiger's fitness right. And to be fair, Munich's standards as of now are far higher than ours. His competition in midfield there weren't players like Schweinderlin, Fellaini and Herrera.
I don't. I'm not expecting him to play at his Munich level. I'm willing to take a version of him who performs at 70% of that level. The only difference between your stance and mine is that I'm a tad more optimistic about the level he can reach if fit, and I don't rate our other options as high. I don't think we have 4 top class options in CM ATM and his experience and class on the ball could benefit us big time.
But were there any CM players from Germany that successfully adapted in PL? Surely with Bundesliga selling as much as it had in recent year, there must be at least some examples.
I think Bundesliga can produce a good CM for PL and maybe Gundogan and Xhaka will be able to prove it, I also don't believe there is a predisposition for Bundesliga's CMs to fail in England. But from empirical point of view you can't really argue with Nuts, all central midfield players (attacking, defensive or in-between) from Germany from Ballack to Bastian were a failures in PL. Maybe we can find an examples in 90s but in recent time it's mostly flops.
Of course you can argue with a completely flawed opinion. Given it is based on nothing really. Plus even you confirm that you disagree with it.
It's hardly as if many top class Bundesliga CMs have gone to England in their prime of late. What are we basing it off? Just Ballack moving to Chelsea when they already had Lampard? That's an empirical argument?
They make more of them, they run faster.
What exactly did Bastian do in Watford game? Scored? Sure he managed to scramble one over the line, but overall his performance was dire and poor, just look at his passing accuracy for that game. Also Watford almost bossed the midfield, they created better chances and it was a lucky one. so much for "controlling the game".
The fact that no one can identify these so-called good games by Bastian onyl proves he had none. Or close to none, maybe like a couple. And there were some serious horror shows. For example in Wolfsburg. Was that before an injury? I think so. He would have been fit and yet he was shockingly bad.
I don't think he even had enough average games, whenever i remember our matches in fall or winter, like Arsenal away or 0-0 with City, Chelsea even better ones like Everton's win and the rest Bastian did not exactly cover himself in glory. Even against Leicester where he scored but his overall play was pretty poor. Just game a home against Swansea comes to mind when i think about when Bastian really fitted here at United and looked the part.
Well that's a very big "if". When exactly did Bastian stayed fit? Because he played only 20 and 22 matches in Bundesliga in the last two years prior to his move here. So has not "stayed fit" in more than three years in a row now. A very big "if".
Sure. That's empirical. Maybe Ballack and Bastian are on a decline, but their respective last seasons in Bundesliga were much better than their english ones. Surely a decline can't be that rapid and there is not much difference between say 30-years old player and a 31-years old one. So what does explain such a drop in performances level? Well their move to the England of course.
Why do you think Hargreaves that while had injury was more or less fit at Munich suddenly became a complete "misfit" and injury room regular in England after just a half a year.
http://www.skysports.com/football/n...-from-man-utd-problems-says-franz-beckenbauer
Franz Beckenbauer thinks BastianSchweinsteiger can rediscover his best form for Germany at Euro 2016 because he is away from the "problems" at Manchester United.
"Why? Because he is away from the problems at Manchester. I guess he is feeling really comfortable in the Germany squad."
Is this a dig at the club or the LVG regime?
Franz Beckenbauer thinks BastianSchweinsteiger can rediscover his best form for Germany at Euro 2016 because he is away from the "problems" at Manchester United.
"Why? Because he is away from the problems at Manchester. I guess he is feeling really comfortable in the Germany squad."
Is this a dig at the club or the LVG regime?
It's not anything. Just Franz talking, you should not waste a second of thought about some relevant meaning because there isn't.
Well past his best....
Mate, how many CMs have come from the BL and really acclimatised well to the PL? Name them.
Kagawa arrived with substantially higher potential than you are letting on. Read Fergie's quotes about him and pay special attention to what he said at the end of Kagawa's first season about the next season.
It ain't gonna happen for Schweini. He's shot physically and Bayern knew that. He's got even less chance of making any impact than Ballack had and will struggle just the same.
Watch that match from when Watford equalized to the point when United took the lead back in injury time.
If you don't understand what leadership is... then you won't get it.
Never even said that. Christ..Ballack only failed because of Lampard? Were you even watching?! Christ...
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A few points on this topic:
1. Regarding central midfielders from Bundesliga coming to the Premier League and failing, the fact is that barely any great ones are taking that particular route in their prime. When you have very few actually coming, you're bound to have very few successful ones, if any. Adjusting to a new league, particularly a top league, is always a tough thing to do. Sometimes players can do it and sometimes they can't. But it's definitely harder to make the adjustment the older you are when you make that move, or if you get lots of injuries while trying to make that adjustment. Which is why Ballack, Schweinsteiger and Hargreaves are unfit (lolz) to be taken as a basis for a sweeping generalization. Now, if we had the Xavi's and Iniesta's and Busquets' (or indeed Schweinsteigers') moving to England at the age of 25 and failing, then it is a different matter. Anyway, I guess we agree to disagree on this.
2. On the Kagawa point, it is to be noted that A) he wasn't a central midfielder and B) as per SAFs comments he was satisfied with his 1st season and expecting better things in his second, and sadly his manager in the second was David Moyes.
If I was a young up and coming player and had a chance to share the dressing room with Schweinsteiger and Zlatan and play under Mourinho...wow.
He was one of our better midfielders in the first half of the season IMO. Definitely has a part to play but that doesn't mean we should not stop looking to get a new player in there. He is past his best yes but still has enough to offer. Was much better than Herrera & Schneiderlin.
Not going to comment on the 'No CM from Germany succeeds here' bit because I don't think the numbers or the evidence come across as convincing enough.
If BFS can stay fit, he should have a tactically planned out squad role, where he makes the bench week in week out and can calm things down when the team seems jittery in the second half. If Mourinho has his way in the transfer market, we're going to have a fair few new players in this summer. Add to that a lot of promising youngsters who haven't completely broken in yet, and you have a starting XI that might not have played a lot of football together. That is when the nerves could show, and that is when you put the experience of BFS to good use. Also, he is a natural leader of men, and the spine of the team could use his support in the dressing room as much as on the pitch.
If BFS can stay fit, he should have a tactically planned out squad role, where he makes the bench week in week out and can calm things down when the team seems jittery in the second half. If Mourinho has his way in the transfer market, we're going to have a fair few new players in this summer. Add to that a lot of promising youngsters who haven't completely broken in yet, and you have a starting XI that might not have played a lot of football together. That is when the nerves could show, and that is when you put the experience of BFS to good use. Also, he is a natural leader of men, and the spine of the team could use his support in the dressing room as much as on the pitch.
He will be here next season.. The only question is will be stay fairly fit. Mou will use him in the right manner not playing two man midfield with Fellaini and his positional sense. He played very well the first half of the season but I hope with Mou he will be given the right role within the squad.
I wouldn't say Ballack failed at chelsea. Underwhelmed maybe, but still a very dependable top class midfielder.
And at the tailend, he turned into an understated world class midfielder again.
And at the tailend, he turned into an understated world class midfielder again.
I thought Ballack was good too.
Not the goalscoring machine he was in Germany. But he changed his style of play and sat deeper for Chelsea.
Mate, lots of problems here.
There's been plenty of Spanish midfielders who've moved and done well in the PL.
You're spot on about Kagawa - he is more an attacking midfielder but my point encompasses anyone playing centrally down the spine. From Mertesacker, Ballack, Schweini, Rosicky etc - they have all struggled to adapt to pace of the game in PL.
I know it cos I've seen a ton of Bundesliga games live. You think Xabi Alonso could start games for a team at the top of the PL at his age? No chance, but he's got the time on the ball in the BL to be able to start games for Bayern.
I've asked you what exactly had Bastian done in those minutes? Every fool can say stuff like "controlled the game" or "shown leadership". It means nothing without proper example. Just a way to divert attention.
For me leadership is making things happen like Rooney did in FA Cup final with his run or even in semis when he cleared Lukaku's shot. In my understanding "making things happen" can also be applied to defensive side of the game as well. In that episode Rooney never gave up, he fought to the end and made it. He has been a dividing figure to say the least and not on top of his form this term obviously, he was not even average. But in these instances he showed proper leadership. I don;t recall any examples like that from Bastian in Watford game or otherwise.
I always said that for Bastian Manchester United is just the last big meal ticket. He does not care one bit about a club and all these things, him training in Germany while supposedly "injured", miraculously being fit just in time for Euro - it all confirms it. He just duped the old fool (Van Gaal).
If Bastian can stay fit I believe he might be one of the best "signings" for the new season.
Mourinho has an reputation for ressurecting great players that seemed to have lost there Midas touch. From the top of my head I can remember Lucio, Samuel, Cambiasso, Terry, Ricardo Carvalho (with Real Madrid), Mota, Snjeider (dispensed by Real)... the list goes on and on.
He does love his experienced warriors and can inspire some last fighting spirit in them and I believe Bastian will benefit from that.
I would put my money on him and Rooney doing an hell of season next year.
Mourinho has an reputation for ressurecting great players that seemed to have lost there Midas touch. From the top of my head I can remember Lucio, Samuel, Cambiasso, Terry, Ricardo Carvalho (with Real Madrid), Mota, Snjeider (dispensed by Real)... the list goes on and on.
He does love his experienced warriors and can inspire some last fighting spirit in them and I believe Bastian will benefit from that.
I would put my money on him and Rooney doing an hell of season next year.
You're right. He was great in the last ten minutes of that game. The bigger issue and what we seen more of in general last season was the 80 minutes that preceded it.
I thought he was good away at Watford and was good at home to West Ham in the cup when he came on. Helped drive us forward and his little shove on the keeper helped Martial score the equaliser.
Other than that he was a big let down. He was injured a lot and to be brutally honest didn't look that fit when he was playing. Always looked knackered.
If the squad role of veteran midfielder is between Carrick or Schweinsteiger I'd definitely go with Carrick.
Other than that he was a big let down. He was injured a lot and to be brutally honest didn't look that fit when he was playing. Always looked knackered.
If the squad role of veteran midfielder is between Carrick or Schweinsteiger I'd definitely go with Carrick.
Are you serious? Bundesliga has plenty of players or CM who'd be very good in the PL
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