MrMarcello said:
Kingman never hit 500 homeruns...he hit 442 with a .236 career batting average. Don't bring up stats if you can't get them correct. And to even bring Kingman's name into comparison with Bonds is laughable as well ludicrous.
You just have a personal hate towards Bonds. He's a great player and you can't deny that. He'll top 700 homeruns, numerous all star appearances, gold gloves, silver bats, MVPs (most of any player), over 5000 times reached base (2nd player in history to achieve this). But yeah, all he does is walk and hit homeruns. F'n loon.
BTW, Bonds has faced some great pitchers...Johnson, Maddox, Martinez, Glavine, Ryan, etc. A group of pitchers that can compare to any other group throughout history.
BTW, since the homerun and offensive explosion has occurred in the current pitching poor era, do you discredit Sosa's stats? McGwire's? ARod's? Ramirez? Or is it only held against players you despise?
Tool.
Fair Play. Kingman didn't hit 500, and all I had to do was type "Kingman" into google to find that...but he was close enough to illustrate the point. Stats can be used to make anyone or anything better than it was. Hell...I even thought he was close to the HOF number...and that doesn't make him HOF worthy. Like Fred McGriff or Edgar Martinez or whomever. And it's wrong to assume I hate Bonds. That's the furthest thing from the truth. He's the best offensive player I've seen or will ever see, but he's not the best baseball player I've ever seen. Far from it. He'll catch Ruth and Aaron...pass them...and cement his place in history.
But again...stats can paint any picture you want. His "Homeruns and walks" account for the numerous all-star appearances (homeruns), mvps (homeruns), silver bats (both) reached base safelys (both), total bases (BOTH). BUT, Gold Gloves are a joke. They're historically given to the current best player at a position, i.e., best offensive player who isn't an embarrassment on the field. And not the best DEFENSIVE player.
"Rafael Palmeiro was the AL's Gold Glove first baseman in 1997 and '98. But in 1999, when he played all of 28 games in the field, Palmeiro became the first player to bring home a Gold Glove and the Outstanding Designated Hitter Award in the same season." See what I mean? Most stats are overrated when designating who is GREAT and who is good. Barry's amazing offensive production is directly correlated to his singular ability to hit home runs and walk. Doesn't strike out much, either. So...you're being a bit naive to think he steals bases, moves runners along the basepaths, goes the other way with pitches, and is a great base-runner. Or is that not important in judging an all-around ballplayer?
You named 5 pitchers over the course of Barry's 18+ years. 2 of which Bonds faced regularly. So...that doesn't seem to hold water. Now we both should know to be careful with info we throw around, eh?
And quickly...the level to be great is dropping rapidly...so here goes. Sosa = great all-around player. McGwire = Lucky to be in the AL for as long as he was. Never did anything more than hit. Overrated, as far as "greatness" goes. And his admitted andro use could be debated. As could Sosa's use of cork. As could all of the junk Bonds has running through his veins. I'm ambivalent about it all, though. They cheated...but it's debatable whether cheating was the reason they were good at what they did well. A-Rod is the best baseball player you and I will ever see in person. As effective as Bonds is offensively...and as effective as Brooks Robinson was defensively. Superb player. Man-Ram (love that name!) is a juggernaut offensively...and a joke defensively. Not all-around great, just offensively great. Would struggle in the NL as a defensive liability and not being able to DH as often as he does. Still would mash, though. Like to watch him hit.
I don't hate Bonds. He's amazing offensively. But he isn't an all-around ballplayer and his attitude and ego is a HUGE turn-off. He doesn't respect the game...he respects what he thinks HE'S contributing to it. And beside the ONE playoff series against the Angels where he hit .471 but made defensive errors that cost his team dearly...he has consistently under-performed and regularly let his team down in the post-season. Larkin...Alomar...Jeter...A-Rod...Ripken...Puckett...Pudge. All better all-around players than Bonds during this era.
Line up their stats and put it in a spreadsheet...your offensive numbers will tell you one thing...but their career accomplishments and the legacy they leave in the game will tell you something entirely different.
Baseball is more than career numbers. You know that as well as I do.
